Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Alek Row on 28/07/2008 22:24:57 Please clarify, are the mass values on Sisi intended?
Why the change of Minmatar ships from the lightest to heaviest in all classes? Is the mass of Minmatar ships a problem with this new speed values on Sisi? The low mass is needed to be able to dictate/adjust range as fast as possible. You are already planning to kill that option with MWD re-activation delays, are this values correct? Not even the rifter escaped the change ffs...
|
Lt Angus
Caldari Lt Angus Corp
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:24:00 -
[2]
Just incase minmatar wern't dead they decided the shoot the carcass in the head
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:27:00 -
[3]
Inquiring minds would like to know. Really annoying. .
|
Jim Raynor
Caldari Shinra
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:39:00 -
[4]
I have no idea why they are changing the mass values but this is my theory:
Minmatar are the fastest ships, in base velocity terms, perhaps they are making the tradeoff for the higher velocity being they are less agile, and perhaps these new mass values are to bring Minmatar more in line with the other races ships in terms of MWD effectiveness. On the flip side they seem to have Caldari being the slowest race in terms of velocity, but they improved their agility (this happened a while ago I guess I was AFK from EVE at the time).
That's my best guess. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:50:00 -
[5]
The point of concern seems to be that there are no mass modifiers on modules or rigs any more. (unless i'm reading the values wrong). This is a big deal, because whereas before you could lower the mass of a ship using MWD in order to get a bit of a speed AND an agility boost, how ships feel sluggish and extremely unresponsive. This pretty much kills the agility of ships while under MWD speed.
Still need to do some testing, but it appears as if the changes are geared toward close-range AB setups being able to orbit tight without loosing much speed, while completely gimping the MWD orbit at anything approaching survivability. -- this is my sig. |
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jim Raynor I have no idea why they are changing the mass values but this is my theory:
Minmatar are the fastest ships, in base velocity terms, perhaps they are making the tradeoff for the higher velocity being they are less agile, and perhaps these new mass values are to bring Minmatar more in line with the other races ships in terms of MWD effectiveness. On the flip side they seem to have Caldari being the slowest race in terms of velocity, but they improved their agility (this happened a while ago I guess I was AFK from EVE at the time).
That's my best guess.
From best to worst? That's to bring Minmatar more in line? Why not put shield boost bonus more in line with shield res/hp bonus then? or armor? why not give ecm/drone bonus to other races ships? That would be nice... let's kill all races traits, or even if we don't kill them, let's spread them a bit, you know, to put them more *in line* with each other.
Sorry about the rant, not your fault, but messing with races traits is a bit too much for me.
|
Pliskkenn
Minmatar Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:58:00 -
[7]
So the race that specializes in Skirmish Warfare is being penalized in that area? Gah I'll have to take a look at this before I say more. :/ ---
|
Daelin Blackleaf
The Reclaimed
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:02:00 -
[8]
What are you doin'?
|
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:05:00 -
[9]
Sure.. brign minmatar spee dmore in line with other races. But while you ae at it give us same tanking as caldari, same cap as ammar and same dps as gallente would you?
What is the poitn on a race that is WORSE on every possible measure in the game?
|
Jim Raynor
Caldari Shinra
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 28/07/2008 22:57:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor I have no idea why they are changing the mass values but this is my theory:
Minmatar are the fastest ships, in base velocity terms, perhaps they are making the tradeoff for the higher velocity being they are less agile, and perhaps these new mass values are to bring Minmatar more in line with the other races ships in terms of MWD effectiveness. On the flip side they seem to have Caldari being the slowest race in terms of velocity, but they improved their agility (this happened a while ago I guess I was AFK from EVE at the time).
That's my best guess.
From best to worst? That's to bring Minmatar more in line? Why not put shield boost bonus more in line with shield res/hp bonus then? or armor? why not give ecm/drone bonus to other races ships? That would be nice... let's kill all races traits, or even if we don't kill them, let's spread them a bit, you know, to put them more *in line* with each other.
Sorry about the rant, not your fault, but messing with races traits is a bit too much for me. Going to get some sleep.
I don't think the mass changes would make Minmatar the worst in terms of speed/agility, though I haven't looked at their agility modifier.. I am pretty sure they changing mass though to balance MWD velocity. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
|
Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:21:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 29/07/2008 00:21:33
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 28/07/2008 22:57:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor I have no idea why they are changing the mass values but this is my theory:
Minmatar are the fastest ships, in base velocity terms, perhaps they are making the tradeoff for the higher velocity being they are less agile, and perhaps these new mass values are to bring Minmatar more in line with the other races ships in terms of MWD effectiveness. On the flip side they seem to have Caldari being the slowest race in terms of velocity, but they improved their agility (this happened a while ago I guess I was AFK from EVE at the time).
That's my best guess.
From best to worst? That's to bring Minmatar more in line? Why not put shield boost bonus more in line with shield res/hp bonus then? or armor? why not give ecm/drone bonus to other races ships? That would be nice... let's kill all races traits, or even if we don't kill them, let's spread them a bit, you know, to put them more *in line* with each other.
Sorry about the rant, not your fault, but messing with races traits is a bit too much for me. Going to get some sleep.
I don't think the mass changes would make Minmatar the worst in terms of speed/agility, though I haven't looked at their agility modifier.. I am pretty sure they changing mass though to balance MWD velocity.
It does. At this point if the changes remain as is I'm hoping very much to get into the Jumpgate Evolution Beta. .
|
Jim Raynor
Caldari Shinra
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 29/07/2008 00:21:33
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 28/07/2008 22:57:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor I have no idea why they are changing the mass values but this is my theory:
Minmatar are the fastest ships, in base velocity terms, perhaps they are making the tradeoff for the higher velocity being they are less agile, and perhaps these new mass values are to bring Minmatar more in line with the other races ships in terms of MWD effectiveness. On the flip side they seem to have Caldari being the slowest race in terms of velocity, but they improved their agility (this happened a while ago I guess I was AFK from EVE at the time).
That's my best guess.
From best to worst? That's to bring Minmatar more in line? Why not put shield boost bonus more in line with shield res/hp bonus then? or armor? why not give ecm/drone bonus to other races ships? That would be nice... let's kill all races traits, or even if we don't kill them, let's spread them a bit, you know, to put them more *in line* with each other.
Sorry about the rant, not your fault, but messing with races traits is a bit too much for me. Going to get some sleep.
I don't think the mass changes would make Minmatar the worst in terms of speed/agility, though I haven't looked at their agility modifier.. I am pretty sure they changing mass though to balance MWD velocity.
It does. At this point if the changes remain as is I'm hoping very much to get into the Jumpgate Evolution Beta.
have you tested the new speeds at all? just curious. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 28/07/2008 22:57:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor I have no idea why they are changing the mass values but this is my theory:
Minmatar are the fastest ships, in base velocity terms, perhaps they are making the tradeoff for the higher velocity being they are less agile, and perhaps these new mass values are to bring Minmatar more in line with the other races ships in terms of MWD effectiveness. On the flip side they seem to have Caldari being the slowest race in terms of velocity, but they improved their agility (this happened a while ago I guess I was AFK from EVE at the time).
That's my best guess.
From best to worst? That's to bring Minmatar more in line? Why not put shield boost bonus more in line with shield res/hp bonus then? or armor? why not give ecm/drone bonus to other races ships? That would be nice... let's kill all races traits, or even if we don't kill them, let's spread them a bit, you know, to put them more *in line* with each other.
Sorry about the rant, not your fault, but messing with races traits is a bit too much for me. Going to get some sleep.
I don't think the mass changes would make Minmatar the worst in terms of speed/agility, though I haven't looked at their agility modifier.. I am pretty sure they changing mass though to balance MWD velocity.
the hyperion is now faster than the tempest while under MWD.
The agility boost on minmatar was MINIMAL. It needs to be at least 3 tiems the one recieved to do any difference.
|
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 09:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
have you tested the new speeds at all? just curious.
Well, since you're playing the devil's advocate (which is always nice in a discussion since the devils themselves don't give feedback), and looking only to this new *features*:
- MWD re-activation delay - Mass increase, from lightest to heaviest in all classes.
How are Minmatar able to keep range? Why the changes in the racial trait? This was not a small adjustement, a small tuning or something like that, from lightest ships to heaviest in all classes, less benefit from MWDs, less acceleration. What was here to balance that was so broken? All the base speed/mods/implants nerfs were not enough to put all speeds in line?
|
Artrious
Artrious Research and Development Industries
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:47:00 -
[15]
They have an Ok inertial Modifier, which is probably to offset the weight.
It's probably to stop MWD's and AB's from modifying the higher base speed more.
|
Forge Lag
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:11:00 -
[16]
You need to multiply modifier with mass for comparison. To my suprise, Ravens are one of the most agile (they used to have better modifier but worse mass leading to worse total agility before) and lightweight ships now, with only Mega being competition.
Also all BSs went down in speed by -20m/s across the board. It hits slower ships more ofc so matar gain a bit. The mass changes are much less clear though.
|
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Artrious They have an Ok inertial Modifier, which is probably to offset the weight.
It's probably to stop MWD's and AB's from modifying the higher base speed more.
but what is the logic on mega and Hyperiosn getting LIGHTER then? THis is couter productive. The agility boost on minmatar was minimal and boost only acceleration and turning. THe mass reduction in some gallente ships was several times bigger and boost acceelration, and top speed.
|
Artrious
Artrious Research and Development Industries
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Seishomaru
Originally by: Artrious They have an Ok inertial Modifier, which is probably to offset the weight.
It's probably to stop MWD's and AB's from modifying the higher base speed more.
but what is the logic on mega and Hyperiosn getting LIGHTER then? THis is couter productive. The agility boost on minmatar was minimal and boost only acceleration and turning. THe mass reduction in some gallente ships was several times bigger and boost acceelration, and top speed.
Blasterboats?
|
The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Artrious
Originally by: Seishomaru
Originally by: Artrious They have an Ok inertial Modifier, which is probably to offset the weight.
It's probably to stop MWD's and AB's from modifying the higher base speed more.
but what is the logic on mega and Hyperiosn getting LIGHTER then? THis is couter productive. The agility boost on minmatar was minimal and boost only acceleration and turning. THe mass reduction in some gallente ships was several times bigger and boost acceelration, and top speed.
Blasterboats?
Failboats, now thanx to the 60% Web in my Opinon, sadly. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 12:05:00 -
[20]
Gallente ships have more dps than caldari ships, to make up for the time they'll need to spend under fire reaching their target. (also why caldari ships have bonuses to range, but generally not damage, and also are the slowest ships).
Gallente ships are now more agile than minmatar ships, to make up for the higher speed of minmatars, so they have at least a chance to catch them before getting killed.
The boats with the least range should have a chance to catch up the boats with more range, don't you think? The mass changes reflect that.
Of course, if background-wise the race with the most close-range guns was also supposed to be the fastest, it would be so much simpler to balance out... ------------------------------------------
|
|
Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 12:17:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Vengal Seyhan on 29/07/2008 12:18:41
Originally by: Alek Row
Why the change of Minmatar ships from the lightest to heaviest in all classes?
CCP finally had a good, long think about all those extra spikes, wings, vanes and associated paraphanalia that we Minnies are fond of welding onto our ships and thought "Y'know, all that rusty scrapmetal really must weigh quite a lot, lets fix that right up in the in-game stats"
|
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 14:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shadowsword Gallente ships have more dps than caldari ships, to make up for the time they'll need to spend under fire reaching their target. (also why caldari ships have bonuses to range, but generally not damage, and also are the slowest ships).
Gallente ships are now more agile than minmatar ships, to make up for the higher speed of minmatars, so they have at least a chance to catch them before getting killed.
The boats with the least range should have a chance to catch up the boats with more range, don't you think? The mass changes reflect that.
Minmatar ships can't get close, and can't get too far either, you can count with one hand the number of ships with falloff bonus, our guns are close range too you know. You offset the speed problem with superior dps and superior drone bays, yes you have to go into range, and yes we have to dictate it, wasn't that range struggle balanced before? Was your Mega loosing to a Tempest that often per example? Why to tip the balance in your favor?
Originally by: Shadowsword
Of course, if background-wise the race with the most close-range guns was also supposed to be the fastest, it would be so much simpler to balance out...
Was that sarcasm? The race with the highest dps, highest drone power, the fastest too? Sureee...
|
Jim Raynor
Caldari Shinra
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 16:36:00 -
[23]
autocannons have a lot more in range flexibility than blasters do, just saying.. this nerf to minmatar mass might be fair if you consider that.
i can't say i agree or disagree with the changes yet though ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 17:05:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Alek Row on 29/07/2008 17:06:32
Originally by: Jim Raynor autocannons have a lot more in range flexibility than blasters do, just saying.. this nerf to minmatar mass might be fair if you consider that.
i can't say i agree or disagree with the changes yet though
Very small range flexibility in Minmatar ships since there aren't that many ships with falloff bonus and DPS in falloff is nothing spectacular. And you're forgetting drones, better bays and replacements.
It's fair to find new ways of nerfing a racial trait until it stops of being an advantage?
Someone posted this, I can't test it, it would be nice if someone could confirm this and compare the Mega against the Tempest while MWDing by the way.
Originally by: Seishomaru
the hyperion is now faster than the tempest while under MWD.
If this is accurate... just lol.
|
Jim Raynor
Caldari Shinra
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 17:22:00 -
[25]
Quote: Very small range flexibility in Minmatar ships since there aren't that many ships with falloff bonus and DPS in falloff is nothing spectacular. And you're forgetting drones, better bays and replacements.
It's fair to find new ways of nerfing a racial trait until it stops of being an advantage?
I'm not arguing that Minmatar shouldn't be the fastest ships, though the most agile could be debated, though I don't think they should turn like bricks or anything.. I don't fly Minmatar or Gallente battleships so I have no idea if this change is even needed, like I said I'm not really for or against this change but I have no idea why CCP is messing with mass, they might have a good reason with all these speed changes going on, who knows. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |