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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.10.29 07:32:00 -
[871]
Nerf whingers.
Imaagine if say 500K SP was taken from your char every time you whinged about some function of the game.
Then you really would be forced to adapt or die.
ECCM does work, those who say it doesn't do not understand statistics. They prove this by saying they were permajammed when a falcon only got off say two jams within a minutes fight. Two statistical success counts as digital now? Share your math with gamblers whingers, go play poker; if you are correct you will become overnight millionaires.
The fairest way to 'balance' the recons (as the whingers are crying out for) is to force the other recons to use the same number of slots to EWAR as they have to. Lets count shall we? Falcon = 8 slots + 2 rigs (generally) Rapier = 2/3 slots
Whinge whinge whinge, why can't my two EWAR slot, jack of all trades rapier peform as well as the utterly dedicated fitted faclon.
WTB : lowslot module, stasis webification amplifier WTB : lowslot module, signal suppression projector WTB : lowslot module, energy emission amplifier
If the other recons could then have the option of being able to use their EWAR to similar ranges as the current falcon but like the falcon had to dedicate the entire ship to acheive this..., would they?
True story : Jump through a gate after FC says 'got a domi tackled here, need jams Tzar'. I jump through, only one target I assume jammage no problem. Turns out the pilot has cleverly fitted 2 ECCM units. I fail to jam, the domi's sentries auto-agress and two volley my expensive ship.
WTF? I was told by the reliable forum warriors ECCM doesn't work????!?!?!
Bloody liars
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'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.10.29 07:37:00 -
[872]
why didn't you just warp out? in the time it takes you to lock after jumping through a gate you should have been fully aligned (and outside of any bubble if present) -------------------------- NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.10.29 07:42:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Rajere why didn't you just warp out? in the time it takes you to lock after jumping through a gate you should have been fully aligned (and outside of any bubble if present)
I was over confident Raj, usually without any ECCM fitted a lone BS would be insta locked and insta jammed before drones out. Plus I was trying to save a nano-mate who had been neuted by the domi.
Thats missing the point somewhat though __________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
Shira Rayborn
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:00:00 -
[874]
Originally by: The Tzar Nerf whingers.
Imaagine if say 500K SP was taken from your char every time you whinged about some function of the game.
Then you really would be forced to adapt or die.
ECCM does work, those who say it doesn't do not understand statistics. They prove this by saying they were permajammed when a falcon only got off say two jams within a minutes fight. Two statistical success counts as digital now? Share your math with gamblers whingers, go play poker; if you are correct you will become overnight millionaires.
The fairest way to 'balance' the recons (as the whingers are crying out for) is to force the other recons to use the same number of slots to EWAR as they have to. Lets count shall we? Falcon = 8 slots + 2 rigs (generally) Rapier = 2/3 slots
Whinge whinge whinge, why can't my two EWAR slot, jack of all trades rapier peform as well as the utterly dedicated fitted faclon.
WTB : lowslot module, stasis webification amplifier WTB : lowslot module, signal suppression projector WTB : lowslot module, energy emission amplifier
If the other recons could then have the option of being able to use their EWAR to similar ranges as the current falcon but like the falcon had to dedicate the entire ship to acheive this..., would they?
True story : Jump through a gate after FC says 'got a domi tackled here, need jams Tzar'. I jump through, only one target I assume jammage no problem. Turns out the pilot has cleverly fitted 2 ECCM units. I fail to jam, the domi's sentries auto-agress and two volley my expensive ship.
WTF? I was told by the reliable forum warriors ECCM doesn't work????!?!?!
Bloody liars
If you haven't guessed it yet, this is not about rooks being overpowered (because all your worthless arguments cover the rook basically), it is about the falcons. Guess why.
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DaGambit
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.31 00:55:00 -
[875]
Wouldn't it be easier just to make ECM modules use alot more cap when activated. Would make the Falcon's possibly give up another mid slot for a cap booster, or reconfigure their low slots. http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/DaGambit/FINAL_GAMBIT.JPG |
Annowyn
Armada.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:39:00 -
[876]
Originally by: DaGambit Wouldn't it be easier just to make ECM modules use alot more cap when activated. Would make the Falcon's possibly give up another mid slot for a cap booster, or reconfigure their low slots.
And completely prevents caldari jammer frigs from being able to jam.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.31 06:20:00 -
[877]
It's mainly about the falcon, not the other ecm ships. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Ound
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Posted - 2008.11.05 20:36:00 -
[878]
Edited by: Ound on 05/11/2008 20:38:56 Falcons are a bit overpowered. They are focused to have 1 EWAR Type Bonus, read - ECM, whilst other race recons have 2 Different types of EWAR bonuses and that is what makes the difference. For example Arazu has bonus to Warp Disruption and Sensor Dampeners, Pilgrim has bonus to Energy Neutrilizing and Tracking Disruptors, Rapier has bonus to Stasis Webifiers and Target Painting, but Faclon is only ECM Focused. Honestly Falcon could use some relook. It would be like Rapier having 60% Webifier range per level and say like 2-5% Speed Factor for Webifiers per level. Instead Falcons could get reduced range / strenght to ECM and get bonus for Projected ECCM range / strenght per level. I think it would be a bit more fair. Just my 2 cents.
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Lili Lu
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.05 23:00:00 -
[879]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 05/11/2008 23:03:59 Edited by: Lili Lu on 05/11/2008 23:03:21
Originally by: Ound Edited by: Ound on 05/11/2008 20:38:56 Falcons are a bit overpowered. They are focused to have 1 EWAR Type Bonus, read - ECM, whilst other race recons have 2 Different types of EWAR bonuses and that is what makes the difference. For example Arazu has bonus to Warp Disruption and Sensor Dampeners, Pilgrim has bonus to Energy Neutrilizing and Tracking Disruptors, Rapier has bonus to Stasis Webifiers and Target Painting, but Faclon is only ECM Focused. Honestly Falcon could use some relook. It would be like Rapier having 60% Webifier range per level and say like 2-5% Speed Factor for Webifiers per level. Instead Falcons could get reduced range / strenght to ECM and get bonus for Projected ECCM range / strenght per level. I think it would be a bit more fair. Just my 2 cents.
Now that is actually a pretty good suggestion. Let each fleets ecm boats have their own sub ecm battle, might take make ecm boats not automatic primaries because they each won't be jamming 3-4 opposing battleships.
Alternately, the bonused projected eccm boats would be another tool in the upcoming sniper BS blobs (due to speed nerf) without being overpowered.
Good job for this idea.
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Grek Forto
THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 01:47:00 -
[880]
Poasting in 31 page thread.
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R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.11.06 08:05:00 -
[881]
The danger with trying to nerf a ship like the falcon is that it has no other uses.
It doesn't have the defenses to make a good tackler, nor the speed to move through bubble camps safely solo, or the offensive power to pose a danger to anything larger than a noob ship.
It also doesn't have a guaranteed effect like the rest of the ECM systems mentioned; Sensor disrupt, webs, neutralizers, target painters and warp disruptors all hit their target for 100% of the module's effectiveness when inside optimal range. With the falcon you only get a roll of the dice and there are no other uses for the ship.
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2008.11.06 13:20:00 -
[882]
Funny how this argument always devolves into a slanging match with little substance.
Firstly, ask yourselves: "Why do people fly Falcons in such predominance, and never Arazus or Rooks, etc? Why of all the Recon ships, is this the most dominant?"
If everyone picks the same ship, then it must possess a clear advantage over its contemporaries. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Falcon should be nerfed, but maybe the Arazu's (and others) effectiveness should be improved so it can compete.
There are ways of countering Falcons, but I admit it is difficult if there are only two of you. However, if you are looking for 'fair' fights, don't play MMOs. People will exploit any advantage they have. That's human nature.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.06 14:10:00 -
[883]
Edited by: Murina on 06/11/2008 14:13:08
Originally by: Ratchman
Firstly, ask yourselves: "Why do people fly Falcons in such predominance,
Because the falcon is the better ship to be used in gang vs gang combat and gang vs gang combat is by far the most predominant form of combat in eve.
Originally by: Ratchman and never Arazus or Rooks, etc? Why of all the Recon ships, is this the most dominant?"
Rooks cannot warp cloaked like the arazu and falcon. While the arazu has 2 distinct bonuses one to scram range and one to damps while the falcon only has one. And as i mentioned the falcon at the moment is tactically better when use in gangs.
Originally by: Ratchman If everyone picks the same ship, then it must possess a clear advantage over its contemporaries. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Falcon should be nerfed, but maybe the Arazu's (and others) effectiveness should be improved so it can compete.
I agree that the bonuses on the arazu/lach need working on and the range of them increasing.
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Vixisti
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:49:00 -
[884]
Edited by: Vixisti on 06/11/2008 16:49:54
While often on the receiving end of a Falcon jam, I don't think it should get a nerf. Why?
You can't really solo in it at all unlike the other recons and it's one of the best anti-blob ships around. If you have a falcon in your small gang you can effectively take on a much larger force although it's never going to be an easy fight for either side.
While I admit it's annoying to get jammed, there are already measures you can take to drastically reduce your chances of getting jammed, if you choose not to use them that's your choice.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:52:00 -
[885]
Originally by: Vixisti While often on the receiving end of a Falcon jam, I don't think it should get a nerf. Why?
You can't really solo in it at all unlike the other recons and it's one of the best anti-blob ships around.
Can't solo in it? That's like saying it is ok for my armageddon to do 5000 dps because it can't catch an inty. Falcons are not meant to solo at all, you can't use that argument to justify imbalance.
And no it's not a good anti blob ship. Guess why, because blobs have their own falcons. In hordes I might add. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Heisenburg Principle
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:35:00 -
[886]
Rubbish un-interesting thread... 31 pages though. Crap. |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:28:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Vixisti While often on the receiving end of a Falcon jam, I don't think it should get a nerf. Why?
You can't really solo in it at all unlike the other recons and it's one of the best anti-blob ships around.
Can't solo in it? That's like saying it is ok for my armageddon to do 5000 dps because it can't catch an inty. Falcons are not meant to solo at all, you can't use that argument to justify imbalance.
And no it's not a good anti blob ship. Guess why, because blobs have their own falcons. In hordes I might add.
Falcons in blobs are pointless as all you need is dps, falcons are a small to med gang tactical asset nothing more and nothing less.
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lexor barb
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:38:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild Stop whining about every ship that can actually effectively do the very exact thing it is meant to do.
By the way, the Rook has had the same exact jamming strength that the Falcon has now all along, inbetween the ECM nerf in late 2006 and the Falcon boost in Trinity. And yet no one whined about it.
Very true they should stop whining and get over it.
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Lord DeFault
Minmatar 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:40:00 -
[889]
Falcon = no dps, Slow, No tank and costly.
Powers = ECM and cloak
Yes that's right nerf it making it a cloaking inty mark 5. idk ` `
HAM rook's for the win O wait.. you got shot down too quickly in any gang larger than 2......
For the Republic
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CydonianKnight
THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:10:00 -
[890]
Originally by: Grek Forto Poasting in 31 page thread.
Poasting in a Grek Forto sponsored thread.
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:23:00 -
[891]
Posting in a thread started by me, master of ownage.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:23:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild Stop whining about every ship that can actually effectively do the very exact thing it is meant to do.
By the way, the Rook has had the same exact jamming strength that the Falcon has now all along, inbetween the ECM nerf in late 2006 and the Falcon boost in Trinity. And yet no one whined about it.
It didn't have a covops cloak?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:26:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Lord DeFault Falcon = no dps, Slow, No tank and costly.
Powers = ECM and cloak
Yes that's right nerf it making it a cloaking inty mark 5. idk ` `
HAM rook's for the win O wait.. you got shot down too quickly in any gang larger than 2......
Ok let's use your logic:
Freighter = no dps, No tank, costly, no ECM, no cloak
Powers = can haul some stuff that is repackaged
Yes that's right it needs a boost or its just a big fat floating and expensive version of an itty mark 5 idk
Do you see where I'm going with this? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Karentaki
Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:36:00 -
[894]
The main problem I see is the difference in range between ECM and other forms of E-WAR:
ECM: 36 or 54 km optimal Falcon: 100% bonus to ECM optimal range
Sensor Damps: 30 km optimal Arazu: NO RANGE BONUS
Obviously the Arazu gets a warp disruptor bonus too, but this is USELESS in most gang PvP since it doesn't have enough tank, and there are already dedicated tacklers/bubbles.
Now, the difference is that the Arazu must engage from a MAXIMUM of around 150km, with the damps at max effect around 50km. This is well within normal engagement range for fleets, and nano-ships can easily intercept you in a matter of seconds. The Falcon can engage from 250km range, with max effect at around 150km. This gives them plenty of time to run from tacklers, and if they sit at 250km they can be outside the range of most ships, and many snipers.
I personally don't have a problem with e-war ships disabling several enemy ships, but I do have a problem with imbalances between the different e-war ships. Currently the Falcon is pretty much the only choice in fleet e-war, and is almost synonymous with the whole recon class. The falcon could do with some reduction in effectiveness, but mostly the other recons just need to be boosted. The Gallente recons never got boosted after the damp nerf, so they deffinitely need boosting
[And yeah, I am a Gallente recon pilot]
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.11.07 01:23:00 -
[895]
you know ecm is over powered when...
guy in your corp, flying a caracal!, with no jamming skills cept for module use, using amarr jammers, jams up to tier 3 battleships.
you should never get a jam on any ship in those circumstances.
so add in the correct racial the correct ship, and the perfect jamming skills... and you see why a falcon can perma jam 4-5 targets depending. ------
RECON is recruiting |
per
Caldari Rytiri Lva R.U.R.
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Posted - 2008.11.07 10:37:00 -
[896]
fit ECCM you crybabies -------------------------------------------------- CZ |
Chimii Lecto
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.07 10:41:00 -
[897]
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver you know ecm is over powered when...
guy in your corp, flying a caracal!, with no jamming skills cept for module use, using amarr jammers, jams up to tier 3 battleships.
you should never get a jam on any ship in those circumstances.
so add in the correct racial the correct ship, and the perfect jamming skills... and you see why a falcon can perma jam 4-5 targets depending.
You obviously do not understand the mechanics of ECM... ---------- /Pretty Posting. |
destinationZERO
Minmatar Pain Management Services
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Posted - 2008.11.07 10:49:00 -
[898]
guys, keep going, you're doing good, falcon will be nerfed.
keep zerging the game more and more, good job.
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kyrv
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:32:00 -
[899]
I fit as do my corp Battleships with two or three ECCM there is little cause not to. As our corp fights I intentionally use a battlecruiser, I find that falcon pilots are more modest than you may think and target the smaller craft first, primaried I simply defect dps and ecm to jump/warp/dock this totally makes for interesting game play, gets my thumbs up.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:56:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver you know ecm is over powered when...
guy in your corp, flying a caracal!, with no jamming skills cept for module use, using amarr jammers, jams up to tier 3 battleships.
you should never get a jam on any ship in those circumstances.
so add in the correct racial the correct ship, and the perfect jamming skills... and you see why a falcon can perma jam 4-5 targets depending.
I really wonder WHERE you get the impressiona falcon coul permajam more than 1 ship
There was a thread with the maths...a Faclon could only permajam 2 targets if it had 4+4 racilas for each of the two BSes
BTW: As ECM is Chance based ist all or nothing...same caracal coul Sensor Damp said BS, too without more than the skill to 1...and that would hit always...
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