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Speed was the only counter to blobbing

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Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.31 10:53:00 - [61] Edited by: Reven Cordelle on 31/07/2008 10:53:38 I heard that fire extinguishers and extreme temperatures were most effective against blobs. Anyone understanding that reference knows their B-Movies well.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:07:00 - [62] that movie was so B ! :p ------ Tides of Silence
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:16:00 - [63] Originally by: Synapse Archae Its about how fast you go relative to TRACKING and relative to MISSILES. Its a speed TANK. Tanking damage means absorbing it, not making your ship so fast that nothing can ever hit it. _________________________________________________________
sneakybustard	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:35:00 - [64] WAAH!
ThroatWarbler Mangrove Righteous-Indignation Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:49:00 - [65] I haven't read all this thread, but the best tactic against nano-gangs I've seen was to field a blob of relatively cheap interceptors, along with cheapy speed-fit T1 cruisers for DPS. Use the 'ceptors to get webs and points, by the time the webbing inties go down (which they will pretty quick) the T1 cruisers will have killed at least one nano ship, whose isk value will more than make up for 10-20 losses on their own side, especially if you pod the pilot and cost him his expensive implants. Of course, none of this requires much in the way of tactics, just blobbing with cheap ships. In other words, as others have said, the best way to counter nano is to blob. Nano gangs have always been about killboard padding, easy kills and easy escape. As a result, interesting stuff like black ops gangs and other covert stuff has largely been ignored in favour of the lowest-common-denominator. Of course, there will always be nano-acolytes who decry change, but they're just like those people who moaning when John Carmack tried to remove strafe jumping from Quake 3. Adapt and change, don't get stuck in your ways. Of course, before everyone gets too excited, I should add that all the above is IMHO.
Cpt Angus Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:50:00 - [66] "Speed was the only counter to blobbing" What about the ever present nano speed blob then? The above makes is way to vague. Bones heal and chicks dig scars
kyrv	Posted - 2008.07.31 13:02:00 - [67] Tbh ppl are too scared to lose a over priced cruiser that is designed for running away, as for blobs on a smaller scale hac users are blobs picking and choosing there targets or running. I can only hope for cheaper hacs I have always been in disbelief at the financial risk people play this game with cheaper alturnatives such as a battleship with full fittings you lose what 20million? and I see no difference what 20km/s to 200m/s with range imho. Greef about it trash the hac market into submission
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:56:00 - [68] Fight fire with fire? Blob them back into the depths.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.31 17:02:00 - [69] Originally by: Highwind Cid Fight fire with fire? Blob them back into the depths. This. You nano***s need to get some friends.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.31 17:17:00 - [70] Originally by: Acidictadpole Guerilla tactics isn't about attacking a large fleet and being able to take it down just because your faster. That's not what it is.. Guerilla tactics is engaging a smaller force quickly before the bigger force can arrive to help. Behind enemy lines or taking stragglers. You all believe that 5 HACs engaging 10 battleships and getting kills is what guerilla warfare is.. well you're WRONG. As per real-life, the counter to the blob is either attrition or a bigger blob. There will never be a more effective means than that. It's sad but its true. Nanoing was never an effective counter to a blob because in which case you'd still have a blob, just with different shiptypes (nano blob). So, as some of you people have told those against nano previously. Adapt. If you don't you will die. There are plenty of new playstyles opening up and you'd do well to actually find out what they are instead of whining on the forums. Logic and common sense in a Nano whine thread?? Outrageous!
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.07.31 17:21:00 - [71] Originally by: Soporo Originally by: Acidictadpole Guerilla tactics isn't about attacking a large fleet and being able to take it down just because your faster. That's not what it is.. Guerilla tactics is engaging a smaller force quickly before the bigger force can arrive to help. Behind enemy lines or taking stragglers. You all believe that 5 HACs engaging 10 battleships and getting kills is what guerilla warfare is.. well you're WRONG. As per real-life, the counter to the blob is either attrition or a bigger blob. There will never be a more effective means than that. It's sad but its true. Nanoing was never an effective counter to a blob because in which case you'd still have a blob, just with different shiptypes (nano blob). So, as some of you people have told those against nano previously. Adapt. If you don't you will die. There are plenty of new playstyles opening up and you'd do well to actually find out what they are instead of whining on the forums. Logic and common sense in a Nano whine thread?? Outrageous! The End is nigh! Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Phil Exon	Posted - 2008.07.31 17:31:00 - [72] Nano-warfare is fun. People who are unable to learn how to deal with it need to suck it. Nanoes add great diversity to the gameplay and as suggested before is the only way to deal with blobbing. Don't nerf anything!
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.07.31 17:35:00 - [73] Originally by: Phil Exon Nano-warfare is fun. People who are unable to learn how to deal with it need to suck it. Nanoes add great diversity to the gameplay and as suggested before is the only way to deal with blobbing. Don't nerf anything! Nanos don't add anything to the game, unless you nano it up too, in which case you are further contributing to the lack of variety. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Mysdora eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:13:00 - [74] Edited by: Mysdora on 31/07/2008 18:14:36 Originally by: Robrina Brun Adapt or die. Nanos are the result of adaptation. It's the conventional blobs that should now adapt to countering nanos, but I guess it's easier to whine to CCP than bring a rapier. It's a real shame that a major tactical aspect of pvp is getting butchered like this, and along with it the ability of small independent corps like ours to enjoy 0.0 pvp without being immediately out-blobbed and camped in somewhere. Originally by: Anubis Xian Nanos don't add anything to the game, unless you nano it up too, in which case you are further contributing to the lack of variety. Yeah, why don't we all just fly the same standard issue ibis so noone has to worry about countering any setups
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:28:00 - [75] Originally by: Acidictadpole Guerilla tactics is about attacking a overwhelming large and unwieldingly stupid fleet and being able to take it down ships because of speed, agility, tactics thru coordination and execution fixed that for you. pro tip: speed is not bad, nor the only thing in eve, but it is good for roaming and blobs
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:38:00 - [76] Wow, I'm stunned by the number of people who actually WANT to play "Blob Online" in this thread. Seriously. Its boring, its laggy, it needs so little skill. Makes me ashamed to be in the same thread. "Just avoid blobs" and "Fight blobs with other blobs" boils down to "Just don't have any fun, and like it." F* that. Eve needs a viable non-blob counter. Numbers alone should not decide engagements. Originally by:** CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:43:00 - [77] Im surpirsed by all the whiney nanopilots unhappy that nano is getting nerfed. You guys where the reason blobs happened. You are also the reason why anti-blob tactics dissapeared overnight. I would tell you to go back to Team Fortress 2, but they also nerfed teh backburner in it so you are on shakey ground!
Skipdog	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:30:00 - [78] Edited by: Skipdog on 31/07/2008 19:31:17 Originally by: Synapse Archae Wow, I'm stunned by the number of people who actually WANT to play "Blob Online" in this thread. Seriously. Its boring, its laggy, it needs so little skill. Makes me ashamed to be in the same thread. "Just avoid blobs" and "Fight blobs with other blobs" boils down to "Just don't have any fun, and like it." F*** that. Eve needs a viable non-blob counter. Numbers alone should not decide engagements. So, there should be ships that allow small gangs of ships to compete with and harass much larger gangs and not expect to take losses? What reason would there be to not fly the ship that lets one accomplish such a task? To me, that seems like the primary issue that is being dealt with. What about the theory that the reason blobs were so necessary, were due to the threat of small nano gangs which also made small gangs of non-nano ships much less desirable?
Pharos Dei Amarr Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:58:00 - [79] Originally by: Skipdog Edited by: Skipdog on 31/07/2008 19:31:17 Originally by: Synapse Archae Wow, I'm stunned by the number of people who actually WANT to play "Blob Online" in this thread. Seriously. Its boring, its laggy, it needs so little skill. Makes me ashamed to be in the same thread. "Just avoid blobs" and "Fight blobs with other blobs" boils down to "Just don't have any fun, and like it." F* that. Eve needs a viable non-blob counter. Numbers alone should not decide engagements. So, there should be ships that allow small gangs of ships to compete with and harass much larger gangs and not expect to take losses? What reason would there be to not fly the ship that lets one accomplish such a task? To me, that seems like the primary issue that is being dealt with. What about the theory that the reason blobs were so necessary, were due to the threat of small nano gangs which also made small gangs of non-nano ships much less desirable? no, the point is not to have nberships that can do everything better than anything, the point is to have a viable counter to blob, and since this counter would by definition be lame the only reasonable solution would be to nerf blobs... and to the idiot argument that blobs were merely a response to nano, as someone who has been there from the start let me tell you; you are mistaken and frankly a little **ed as well... nano was/is indeed lame, it is in many regards overpowered, though tbh some primal forms of intelligence lets you counter it easily..., but the problem in eve pvp is not nano, it never has been... its BLOB, always has been, and im afraid always will be since CCP has the genius habit of curing a patients headaches by severing a leg... and then a year later wondering that the patients headache persists and they move on to cut off another limb... etc... NERF Nano, but **ing NERF BLOBS ffs... (btw, carriers and Motherships should be burned badly too...) <center> ... </center>
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:19:00 - [80] Edited by: Stab Wounds on 31/07/2008 20:19:47 Originally by: Synapse Archae Wow, I'm stunned by the number of people who actually WANT to play "Blob Online" in this thread. Seriously. Its boring, its laggy, it needs so little skill. Makes me ashamed to be in the same thread. "Just avoid blobs" and "Fight blobs with other blobs" boils down to "Just don't have any fun, and like it." F*** that. Eve needs a viable non-blob counter. Numbers alone should not decide engagements. i don't knows about you but i have a lot of fun in large fleets it can get a little laggy but the killing is good
Mysdora eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Skipdog So, there should be ships that allow small gangs of ships to compete with and harass much larger gangs and not expect to take losses? If the larger gang completely ignores a major aspect of pvp, then yes - they should get owned by the smaller gang that's relying on that aspect. Originally by: Skipdog To me, that seems like the primary issue that is being dealt with. The primary issue is that most fleets make zero effort to counter nanos. The fix is not to kill nanos - the fix is for people to swap out a few of their cookie cutter fleet battleships for support. Originally by: Skipdog What about the theory that the reason blobs were so necessary, were due to the threat of small nano gangs which also made small gangs of non-nano ships much less desirable? So blobs can't touch nanos, yet nanos are the reason for blobs...? I'm inclined to believe that blobbing has very little to do with nanos, and very much to do with trying to gain every advantage over the opponent - whatever they may be flying. eXceed used to occasionally fly RR battleship gangs to hostile territory before nanoing got really commonplace, and sure enough got blobbed by carriers and whatnot.
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:45:00 - [82] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 31/07/2008 21:47:39 Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't knows about you but i have a lot of fun in large fleets it can get a little laggy but the killing is good Its boring, stultifying and slow. Battleships and battlecruisers are already too slow to move long distances to enemy territory without taking an hour and a half to do it. Most of the roaming pilots I know don't have an hour and a half just to get into the right area for a possible fight. That much prep for no action is unacceptable for a game you're supposed to enjoy. Once there, you have to find and kill someone. Hostiles in your way have plenty of time to get out of the way and dock minutes before you arrive. Any target you do meet, its just bulldoze...no challenge, just lock primary/secondary and hit all your F-keys. Its good for people early into PVP, but veterans demand more of a challenge, and find themselves in smaller tactical groups pretty quickly. Speed and nano ships allow all kinds of skill and tactics to come into play, such as using increased ewar to hold down specific targets, watching the enemy fleet's composition and judging througout the fight if you're still in a safe position to continue engaging. With a smaller group, you can also be more careful and specific about the ships people can bring, rather than demanding a number of "warm bodies" to press f1-f8. Included in this is the number of points, number and range of tracking disruptors, number of damps, number of webs, and the general weapon range of the group as a whole (short vs midrange). All of that affects who you attack in a nano gang and how you attack them. In a larger fleet you just can't exercise that level of oversight, or the fleet never leaves the base. I've seen it tried and failed so many times. After 3 years of trying to enjoy large fleets, you too will learn to dislike it.
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.31 22:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Synapse Archae Battleships and battlecruisers are already too slow to move long distances to enemy territory without taking an hour and a half to do it. Warp to zero. A BS that takes 13 seconds (10 seconds max if you cycle MWD for instawarp) to align and a nanoship that takes 3 seconds to align mean that each warp is 10 seconds faster. So 60 jumps is 600 seconds which is a grand total of 10 minutes extra to move over a 60 jumps. Remember you can warp to zero.
Spurty Caldari Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.31 23:00:00 - [84] Originally by: McDonALTs Remember you can warp to zero. Well done to this man. BS are actually fun to fly as well if you have a clue. On Sisi a nano-gang CAN escape a gate camp. No, it can't fight it and expect to win vs equally skilled opponents fit to deal with them though. -- Two prostitutes standing on a street corner. One says to the other, "Have you ever been picked up by the fuzz?" The other replies, "No, but I've been swung around by the ****!"
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.31 23:31:00 - [85] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 31/07/2008 23:32:04 Originally by: McDonALTs Originally by: Synapse Archae Battleships and battlecruisers are already too slow to move long distances to enemy territory without taking an hour and a half to do it. Warp to zero. A BS that takes 13 seconds (10 seconds max if you cycle MWD for instawarp) to align and a nanoship that takes 3 seconds to align mean that each warp is 10 seconds faster. So 60 jumps is 600 seconds which is a grand total of 10 minutes extra to move over a 60 jumps. Remember you can warp to zero. Align time isn't even close to the majority of travel time. Remember there is warp speed (varies by ship class, warp time is the actual majority of travel time), and the time it takes to load the next system (depends on your machine, and on the load of other systems on the node) Rather than trying to make up numbers on the spot, go get a few dozen friends, put them in BS (Especially plated ones, so you can withstand the inevitable DD when you arrive from the defenders) and see how long it takes you to do 60 jumps. Really, I dare you. It will take hours, not even counting the time it takes you to organize your two dozen friends, if you can do that at all. Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Sinnbad Mayhem	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:04:00 - [86] Good luck when you hit a bubble doing 800m/s S&M
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:16:00 - [87] Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem Good luck when you hit a bubble doing 800m/s Better 800 than what I'm hearing about the newly nerfed BSs. The Fenrir freighter is actually faster I hear. Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Spurty Caldari Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:16:00 - [88] Originally by: Synapse Archae Better 800 than what I'm hearing about the newly nerfed BSs. The Fenrir freighter is actually faster I hear. God only knows who you are listening too, but Elvis is dead and Santa doesn't really exist! Bubbles are certainly going to make the fight happen there if you are in a BS. Come prepared or don't bother to undock. -- Two prostitutes standing on a street corner. One says to the other, "Have you ever been picked up by the fuzz?" The other replies, "No, but I've been swung around by the ****!"
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:35:00 - [89] HAHHAHAH what the hell kind of logic is that?!?!?! Someone apparently doesn't know what Guerrilla warfare means. HERE, heres a deffinition so that maybe some day you can understand it. guer+ril+la or gue+ril+la (g-rl) n. A member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids. There is nothing in that definition that suggest that you be immune to attack. Nothing about being immune to specific forms of attack. A gurilla does not gain an immunity to being blown up by a RL missile, it just means hes not part of a huge force sitting out in the open. Theres nothing in there saying they get a "dodge bonus" against hot lead. What you and all of the other nano users have wanted was "immunity" to all forms of attack because you dumped X million isk into your ship. They then hide behind "playing smart" when all they did was cut and paste someone else's config. Also I have seen nano blobs so the idea that its the "anti" blob, as though it some how regulates the numbers you can bring against said blob, is all wrong. It was always about being immune, nothing to do with guerilla warfare. Read a history book FFS.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Reven Cordelle Edited by: Reven Cordelle on 31/07/2008 10:53:38 I heard that fire extinguishers and extreme temperatures were most effective against blobs. Anyone understanding that reference knows their B-Movies well. Elvira back then had the most amazing rack on TV. Wait....maybe shes the reason I'm into pale chicks with big racks and love it when they wear all black. I loved the blob movie....wow.... what a breakthrough. man i miss the 80s back when chicks with big racks were allowed on tv all the time.

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