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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:33:00 -
[1]
As the jammers are the only ew mod that is chance based and racial I think it would be good to remove the racials and add racial scripts to be used on the multies. The strength on the multies stays like it is and the script gives it the strength of the racials.
This way the fitting problems of choice which racials to fit is solved and can be adjusted on the spot, like the scripts on the sensor boosters and the scripts on the dampers.
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:33:00 -
[2]
As the jammers are the only ew mod that is chance based and racial I think it would be good to remove the racials and add racial scripts to be used on the multies. The strength on the multies stays like it is and the script gives it the strength of the racials.
This way the fitting problems of choice which racials to fit is solved and can be adjusted on the spot, like the scripts on the sensor boosters and the scripts on the dampers.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:40:00 -
[3]
err. How about no? Racial jammers are a tradeoff. More power, in return for maybe getting your selection wrong. To make them scriptable, would be basically the same as upping the power on multispecs to be the same as racials. As an Ewar pilot, I don't think that's necessary. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: James Lyrus err. How about no? Racial jammers are a tradeoff. More power, in return for maybe getting your selection wrong. To make them scriptable, would be basically the same as upping the power on multispecs to be the same as racials. As an Ewar pilot, I don't think that's necessary.
ok then make the multies as strong as the racials now, as jamming in the only form of ew that is chance and racial based. Make the others forms of ew racial or chance based also or take the racials away
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:48:00 -
[5]
I fly ecm, and I hate bringing the wrong jammers. However, this essentially gives everyone the right jammer all the time, every time and since currently ecm is dominating electronic warfare this just makes it better.
This could work, but must have a very long recalibration time (like 60s or greater) so it's not an instant "Ha I'm always ready for anything Falcons are even better Ha HA".
An RP reason against this is that the sensors on different race's ships are based on completely different technology and would require different mechanical parts and physical hardware, thus the different jammers.
Personally, I think the RP reasons outweigh the convenience provided by your suggestion. The versatility of the multies comes at a cost of diminished effectiveness. And the reason ecm is chance based is that when it does hit, it is 100% effective at taking a ship out of battle (minus FoF and SB), rather than reducing it's effective abilities.
In short, ecm is currently the best form of ewar and would be terribly overpowered with this. No support until RSD gets buffed or something.
Oh, and always use racials.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Fahtim Meidires on 31/07/2008 06:52:23
Originally by: cianide pro
Originally by: James Lyrus err. How about no? Racial jammers are a tradeoff. More power, in return for maybe getting your selection wrong. To make them scriptable, would be basically the same as upping the power on multispecs to be the same as racials. As an Ewar pilot, I don't think that's necessary.
ok then make the multies as strong as the racials now, as jamming in the only form of ew that is chance and racial based. Make the others forms of ew racial or chance based also or take the racials away
Ok, I see what prompted your argument. The difference between ecm and other ewar and the reasoning behind the balance:
RSD, Target painting, tracking disruption: 100% chance of hitting the target xxx% of effectively removing the target from battle
ECM: xxx% chance of hitting the target 100% of effectively removing the target from battle
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.31 07:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Ok, I see what prompted your argument. The difference between ecm and other ewar and the reasoning behind the balance:
RSD, Target painting, tracking disruption: 100% chance of hitting the target xxx% of effectively removing the target from battle
ECM: xxx% chance of hitting the target 100% of effectively removing the target from battle
correct but this mod is instead of a tank and then its a chance based tank and ontop its racial, so you need to fill all or as many as with , what you think you going to fight, racials to have a chance on a successful jamm. If you fail you will lose your ship most of the time. All other ew has 100% chance of success and will add to the total damage that is done indirectly or will lead to causing less damage. BUT all will have a tank and only need to use 1 or 2 ew mods to be successful in their role.
The script idea wont make it to powerful as you cant change scripts when you cloaked and if, what is mentioned before a calibration time before you can use this mod will be added the ONLY advantage is that you can change your racial setup without docking.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 08:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: cianide pro
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Ok, I see what prompted your argument. The difference between ecm and other ewar and the reasoning behind the balance:
RSD, Target painting, tracking disruption: 100% chance of hitting the target xxx% of effectively removing the target from battle
ECM: xxx% chance of hitting the target 100% of effectively removing the target from battle
correct but this mod is instead of a tank and then its a chance based tank and ontop its racial, so you need to fill all or as many as with , what you think you going to fight, racials to have a chance on a successful jamm. If you fail you will lose your ship most of the time. All other ew has 100% chance of success and will add to the total damage that is done indirectly or will lead to causing less damage. BUT all will have a tank and only need to use 1 or 2 ew mods to be successful in their role.
The script idea wont make it to powerful as you cant change scripts when you cloaked and if, what is mentioned before a calibration time before you can use this mod will be added the ONLY advantage is that you can change your racial setup without docking.
Still, problem is there is no rp explanation for ecm 'scripts'. Different jammers are physically different from each other both mechanically and at a hardware level.
Because of the extreme effectiveness and completeness of ecm there needs to be more limiting factors in it's chance of working. In fact, chance is really the only factor. Either you did or did not fit the best module suited for the job.
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WishBlade
Caldari Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.07.31 08:20:00 -
[9]
Although this would be a good idea, if it wouldn't make the jammers totally OP. It'd be the same, but being right all the time about your jammee is too muchout of balance. Aweseomenessness |
Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 08:31:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Fahtim Meidires on 31/07/2008 08:32:02
Originally by: WishBlade Although this would be a good idea, if it wouldn't make the jammers totally OP. It'd be the same, but being right all the time about your jammee is too muchout of balance.
Yes it is. Currently, if you want to be prepared for everything, you must fit either multispecs, resulting in lower range and strength, or one of each racial, resulting in less meaningful trials. That's why racials are in place - otherwise it would be [edit: surprise sex]. I fly ecm, this would make me god in a griffin. Not fair at all.
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.31 09:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Because of the extreme effectiveness and completeness of ecm there needs to be more limiting factors in it's chance of working. In fact, chance is really the only factor. Either you did or did not fit the best module suited for the job.
Having the right module fitted stays the same only you dont need to dock to change it.
I dont know how old you are as I played when the jammers were not chance based, you had the strength and they added up then ( total jamm strength vs ship sensor strength ), the only thing was to fit the right racials. The basic idea of jamm instead of tank, little damage output ( scorp vs the other races tier 1 bs's ) vs good jamming as chance based did not exist
THIS BASE idea does not add up any more as its old concept and after the invention of sensor script and damper scripts ( range and locktimes ) this old technology is due for an overhaul and racial script should be invented
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.31 09:22:00 -
[12]
Speaking as a Falcon pilot, this really would be OP. A basic limit on my effectiveness is having to balance my loadout. Being able to weild 5-6 racials would be completely imbalanced.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
McDonALTs
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Posted - 2008.07.31 10:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: McDonALTs on 31/07/2008 10:12:45 FIX ECM
ECM is too powerful for 1 race. Each race should be able to have their own racial bonus and Caldari get bonus to their race and Multispec.
So Amarr can use one type of racial ECM but get no bonus to others etc. As it currently stands, ECM is like having 9000 Tracting disrupters and 9000 Sensor dampners on you.
Also I would say ECM scripts, 1 script for power and 1 for Jamming time. So scripts that jam you for 20 seconds have low power but scrits that simply break locks like ECM burst do have higher power.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.31 10:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Malcanis on 31/07/2008 10:33:28
Originally by: McDonALTs Edited by: McDonALTs on 31/07/2008 10:12:45 FIX ECM
ECM is too powerful for 1 race. Each race should be able to have their own racial bonus and Caldari get bonus to their race and Multispec.
So Amarr can use one type of racial ECM but get no bonus to others etc. As it currently stands, ECM is like having 9000 Tracting disrupters and 9000 Sensor dampners on you.
Also I would say ECM scripts, 1 script for power and 1 for Jamming time. So scripts that jam you for 20 seconds have low power but scrits that simply break locks like ECM burst do have higher power.
No-one will ever use the jamming time script except perhaps against solo targets would are doomed anyway.
Also, only someone who's never flow a jamming ship could say something as ill-informed and incorrect as "ECM is like having 9000 Tracting disrupters and 9000 Sensor dampners on you." That's just utter nonsense.
EDIT: I have made an EW balance proposal
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.31 10:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: McDonALTs
Also I would say ECM scripts, 1 script for power and 1 for Jamming time. So scripts that jam you for 20 seconds have low power but scrits that simply break locks like ECM burst do have higher power.
Then I see more in a short range more strength or longer range less strength scripts for the multies, so that you can use more powerful multie jammers on closer range, so the risk also goes up as range does not save you as it does now when a cycle fails.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.31 14:51:00 -
[16]
It's fine as-is, and this change would eliminate one of the balancing factors to jam setups. /not signed. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:00:00 -
[17]
horrible idea
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.08.01 00:39:00 -
[18]
Why? What problem is this fixing? _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2008.08.01 01:48:00 -
[19]
while I would love to see this as an ECM pilot, it would be significantly overpowered. ECM is quite powerful enough as it is.
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
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