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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.03 13:39:00 -
[1]
I am a long-time EVE player who finds himself frequently in lagged 0.0 combat situations. I have tried everything "in the book" and would like some advice on what else to try, perhaps even by CCP (other than "clear your cache" please):
- I have a fast PC (dual-core 3 GHz, Windows XP, 4GB RAM) - I have a fast graphics card (8800 GTX with the latest drivers) - my OS is free of (known) viruses, no CPU-intensive background tasks etc. - I have low-latency 12Mbit/s connection from a good ISP and no downloads/filesharing running in the background. - I have cache settings at "extreme", no shadows, no bloom/HDR, all effects off, "interval default", no dither, premium content enabled. - no chat logging, all damage messages off - I use the GBC recommended overview settings, i.e. heavy use of brackets and very filtered overview, the bare minimum for combat is visible on my screen
Now when I travel in gangs of 50+, I get traffic controls/emergency warps on every 2nd jump. When I warp to a grid where there is a fight, the client *freezes* for 60+ seconds (I cannot even type in the chat window), which means that if I get targeted and am in a small ship, I die.
I frequently take part in larger battles where some people seem to be able to play/target/shoot fine, but I have 30+ seconds module lag, which is basically unplayable in a support ship.
So, any suggestions, other than not playing (or not taking part in these battles, where some people seem to be able to play without noticeable problems)?
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.08.03 13:43:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 03/08/2008 13:43:28 All the fleet fights I ever did were with only 1 GB of RAM, a dodgy graphics card, and a slower connection than yours. I had pretty similar symptoms with module delay and such. It's just one of the things that you need to deal with after you've taken all the fleet fight precautions that you mentioned.
The only thing I can think of is to use Classic instead of Premium if you aren't already. I don't know if that will help but it'd be easier on your system.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.03 13:46:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
The only thing I can think of is to use Classic instead of Premium if you aren't already. I don't know if that will help but it'd be easier on your system.
Wouldn't this just be harder on the CPU while the graphics card gets bored? I guess I could try, but doubt that the 8800GTX is a bottleneck ...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Mighty Ahti
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.03 13:53:00 -
[4]
The problems you're describing do seem more like server side stuff rather than your home computer unfortunately.
Traffic control is the server telling you that the system you're trying to enter is too busy to handle your request atm. And I'd test that freezing for 60 seconds, and see if its just the game holding, but i'd suspect its just waiting for instructions from the server.
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.03 14:28:00 -
[5]
The thing that I do that seems to have the biggest impact on performance in laggy situations is to minimise the overview. Like you I have a 3Ghz core but in large fights it just can not cope. I dunno what processing is going on under the bonnet for the overview but gentle on the CPU it is not.
Your 8800GTX can easily handle the graphics needs of Eve. When I used one I didn't even bother to turn off effects, it just handled them.
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Aieran
Madhatters Inc. Pure.
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Posted - 2008.08.03 14:40:00 -
[6]
I get the same lag and delays you do with my system, its the server lagging, not you. And I'm playing with a 3.2Ghz Quad Core, 4GB RAM and a Radeon HD 3870.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:11:00 -
[7]
That's server side. Your machine is plenty powerful enough to handle the client side stuff. -
DesuSigs |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2008 15:15:05
Server side problem. You have a nice computer, but when there are more ships involved, its the server that needs to do the calculations and send the results to your client.
As Oveur once said... the client is just a dumb terminal.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
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Keisern
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:16:00 -
[9]
You got any antivirus, firewall etc. that could delay the data from the server to you?
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Theo Samaritan
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
The only thing I can think of is to use Classic instead of Premium if you aren't already. I don't know if that will help but it'd be easier on your system.
Wouldn't this just be harder on the CPU while the graphics card gets bored? I guess I could try, but doubt that the 8800GTX is a bottleneck ...
It makes it easier for both of them, it uses the same engine as premium for system load, just minus the extra sparkly. ________________________ Lord WarATron:
"To do the Abaddon Hadoken, you need to do the following manover with the joypad. ↓ .... ↓→ .... → + ● |
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Alexandros Balfros
Caldari Pax Britannia Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Keisern You got any antivirus, firewall etc. that could delay the data from the server to you?
Not going to make any odds and don't suggest he disables them because only idiots do that, as has been pointed out its because you're in large fleet fights stick to small gang PvP it avoids the above lag. RALLY Against Evil |
Sinistra Diablos
Gallente Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:36:00 -
[12]
My system is comparable to yours, I have classic graphics enabled, and unless I am doing any downloading, I turn my Antivirus off, and generally see a small-medium improvement in performance.
I do generally have a number of programs running in the back ground such as Yahoo, MSN and some other programs ya'll don't need to worry about. If I shut them down, the improvement is pretty dramatic. I have also noticed TS and Vent have a habit of causing me a bit of processor lag as well. Turning them off helps if I don't really need to be running them (usually don't). Also, double check to ensure that the EVE Voice isn't running (unless you use it) I have noticed it seems to enjoy turning itself back on after I shut it off.
If you have a printer, your printer software may be running in the background, also causing processor lag. Best thing to do is START MENU> Run > Type in: MSCONFIG and turn off anything in the startup section that you don't need running at startup... if you don't know whats what.. google it. (do keep your firewall going though, best to be safe than wtf-pwnd by some hacker)
Sin
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Zombie Network
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pan Crastus When I warp to a grid where there is a fight, the client *freezes* for 60+ seconds (I cannot even type in the chat window), which means that if I get targeted and am in a small ship, I die.
This is a problem you can fix - the client lockup is caused by your client drawing the brackets around every ship in space. Create an overview setting which doesn't show anything at all and name it nobrackets, then create a new overview tab and set the brackets option for that tab to your nobrackets overview setting and use that for PvP.
Basically the brackets setting only draws the brackets around objects that would appear in your overview if you selected that overview setting like normal. Using nobrackets, no brackets are drawn in space at all and the client lockup completely disappears.
Personally I have multiple tabs setup to only show certain ship-types (bs, caps, support) and have the same overview setting for the brackets. This doesn't completely remove the lockup, but reduces it to only a few seconds while still letting you see in space where the targets are instead of relying on the overview. Since pvp overview settings don't have friendlies on them, thats half the brackets removed from the default settings before you even begin to filter out the hostile ships to what you actually want to see. Do not EVER use the default overview tab without bracket filtering for PvP, the tabs are always the better option.
The other problems of emergency warping, module lag etc are server side and are caused by CCP's terrible load balancing - there is not much that can be done about it and everyone has the same problems. You could try turning off the premium graphics, but I don't know how much of a performance hit that has since I always use classic so I can dual box and make some money while sitting in fleet waiting for the fight to start.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.08.03 15:43:00 -
[14]
if your running AV with any type of active scanning, your likely to suffer issues, reason being eve is writing to the cache directory and your AV is pending the writes based on file scans.
so thats the a first, secondly the cache in eve is a double edged sword, it helps when you loading all the same textures all the time, but to be honest i am not sure that its not just best to put up with slightly slower grid load initially than have eve hog more than needed as its caching things that you just might not need anymore (such as all the domi's that got prime targ'd at the begining of the fight.
only other thing is i assume you hit ctrl alt shift (t) and (e) to turn off all the relivent effects.
dont get me wrong mate, some fleet battles are a compleate nightmare, to be honest eve handles them MUCH worse than it should. i suspect its mainly down to the server code however.
/neo Neotheo Dark Materials
Linkage
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:03:00 -
[15]
i'm still using this ram-drive thingy where ntfs-link makes it look like my cache folder and/or the capture folder. i'm no total expert but it should save time on some I/O - especially since RAID 0 doesn't help with all the tiny files. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Veldya
Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:39:00 -
[16]
It is not video lag, it is server lag.
Lots of drones, fighters and missiles will make the server croak. We did a test with 20 odd carriers with fully deployed fighters plus a dozen odd battleships with deployed drones and the location lagged up like there was literally no tomorrow.
I love drones and missiles, but CCP needs to overhaul the system. They put too much stress on the server.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Legacy Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.03 17:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zombie Network
Originally by: Pan Crastus When I warp to a grid where there is a fight, the client *freezes* for 60+ seconds (I cannot even type in the chat window), which means that if I get targeted and am in a small ship, I die.
This is a problem you can fix - the client lockup is caused by your client drawing the brackets around every ship in space. Create an overview setting which doesn't show anything at all and name it nobrackets, then create a new overview tab and set the brackets option for that tab to your nobrackets overview setting and use that for PvP.
Basically the brackets setting only draws the brackets around objects that would appear in your overview if you selected that overview setting like normal. Using nobrackets, no brackets are drawn in space at all and the client lockup completely disappears.
Personally I have multiple tabs setup to only show certain ship-types (bs, caps, support) and have the same overview setting for the brackets. This doesn't completely remove the lockup, but reduces it to only a few seconds while still letting you see in space where the targets are instead of relying on the overview. Since pvp overview settings don't have friendlies on them, thats half the brackets removed from the default settings before you even begin to filter out the hostile ships to what you actually want to see. Do not EVER use the default overview tab without bracket filtering for PvP, the tabs are always the better option.
The other problems of emergency warping, module lag etc are server side and are caused by CCP's terrible load balancing - there is not much that can be done about it and everyone has the same problems. You could try turning off the premium graphics, but I don't know how much of a performance hit that has since I always use classic so I can dual box and make some money while sitting in fleet waiting for the fight to start.
Do you just make the brackets disappear from space or from your overview too?
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.08.03 18:04:00 -
[18]
Edited by: P''uck on 03/08/2008 18:04:05
Originally by: Pan Crastus Now when I travel in gangs of 50+, I get traffic controls/emergency warps on every 2nd jump.
That's not clientside, now, is it? So the answer is probably "Donate truckloads of money to ccp so they can buy the internets and kick the other, useless bandwidth hoggers out."
Like WoW. And Myspace. And facebook. Oh yes please do that.
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bluebeyond
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.08.03 18:19:00 -
[19]
OMG server lag....
You must be the only one in eve with these problems, i feel so sorry for you....
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Zombie Network
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.03 21:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Do you just make the brackets disappear from space or from your overview too?
Just space, you can assign two overview settings per tab. One to control what appears on your overview and one for what gets bracketed in space. If you setup a BS Only/nobracket tab, then you will only see BS on your overvie wand nothing is bracketed in space removing your client lockup when loading grid.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.05 03:35:00 -
[21]
Update:
- Classic graphics are no improvement, they actually seem to make things worse (I got really bad desyncs with less than 300 in local), but the sample is still too small to conclude this reliably - of course I use brackets like I wrote, have all effects off etc. ...
Next thing I'll try is putting my EVE cache on SSD (not kidding, got a 32GB one here...), although I'd expect XP to cache most of it in memory on a 4GB (well 3GB, it's Windows XP) machine.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Arciadian
Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2008.08.05 09:45:00 -
[22]
I dont know if anyone else has replied with this but try tuning off your sound completely. This has helped tons in the past.
ICT Freighter production Program!
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RiotRick
Black-Sun Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.08.05 09:52:00 -
[23]
About your cache settings. Try putting cache size to off instead of extreme. AFAIK when you load a grid stuff will cached, the higher your cache setting, the more stuff will be cached before you actually see anything. So turning cache to off should make the grid load faster.
The future is black. Brace for impact! |
Soeniss Delazur
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.05 09:56:00 -
[24]
There are a couple of things you can do to minimize the lag from your side, like removing all brackets, minimizing the local window, turning off the music, turning down the special effects and turrets effects and so on.
But the problem is not your PC or your connection, it's CCP's servers. When are these lag issues going to be addressed...?
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Magmain
Caldari Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:03:00 -
[25]
In your case the Graphics card wont really help that much, yes it will improve FPS and visual qualities, but not the general flow of it, the RAM is the most important thing in your case. I also found that viruses will make it hard for your client to run smoothly. (Worth running your anti virus).
STOP THE GAY P0RN ALREADY.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:17:00 -
[26]
That shit is server-side.
My rig does a similar thing when popping into Jita. Same amount of people on screen half the time.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:20:00 -
[27]
"What else can I do to make EVE playable?"
Play wearing nothing but a thong and a comboy hat *nod*
What?!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
RiotRick
Black-Sun Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.08.05 10:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones "What else can I do to make EVE playable?"
Play wearing nothing but a thong and a comboy hat *nod*
What?!
Like Molle's pink hat?
The future is black. Brace for impact! |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.05 14:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Pan Crastus - Classic graphics are no improvement, they actually seem to make things worse (I got really bad desyncs with less than 300 in local), but the sample is still too small to conclude this reliably - of course I use brackets like I wrote, have all effects off etc.
Desyncs...as far as I know...aren't really affected by client-side lag but may be affected by network lag. I'm assuming if you're on this step that you're already verified that your ISP is reliable and that you get a good connection with other games?
Quote: Next thing I'll try is putting my EVE cache on SSD (not kidding, got a 32GB one here...), although I'd expect XP to cache most of it in memory on a 4GB (well 3GB, it's Windows XP) machine.
If you see a noticeable increase in performance after doing this, try turning your cache size down. The only way this would increase performance significantly is if you're making a lot of hard drive calls, which shouldn't happen with 4GB's of ram and high cache settings. It's possible that setting the cache to the highest setting results in EVE trying to create a cache larger than your available RAM, which would result in a lot of thrashing as the OS keep loading different things into the cache.
What's your actual FPS that you mentioned while traveling in gangs of 50? A few weeks ago I was in a gang approximately that size and had fairly smooth performance (25-40 FPS) on a 4 year old laptop, so you definitely shouldn't have much in the way of client-side lag. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Chris Vattic
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.05 14:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Chris Vattic on 05/08/2008 15:05:20 Brackets are bad, mmm'kay. My PvP UI doesn't show any at all, even those belonging to reds. Keep it all clear and your PC won't have to arse drawing 900 moving white boxes.
Also suggest making multiple tabs for your overview, I currently have six:
1. Fleet ( for small gang warfare, shows all enemies ) 2. Conventionals ( everything below capitals ) 3. Capitals ( only biiig ships ) 4. Battleships ( speaks for itself, useful for sniping ) 5. Support ( everything smaller than battleships, invaluable when you are in the anti-support wing ) 6. Logistics ( shows all friendlies, but minimized most of the time, that's what we have broadcasts for )
Keep in mind that, unless you fly a repairing ship, you do NOT need to have friendlies and even neutrals on your overview. Not forcing the server to track unneeded stuff during battles is, by far, the best way to keep it reasonably playable most of the time.
Quite honestly, you shouldn't have that serious problems in fleets of 'only' 50, I usually have better performance in gangs three to four time that size and my PC and connection are waaaaay crappier than what you have. Ask CCP to upgrade your local nodes?
EDIT: I also hope you did turn off sound, effects and turrets. ( ctrl-alt-shift-F12, ctrl-alt-shift-e and ctrl-alt-shift-t respectively ) --
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