Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
whoyoulookingat
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 00:03:00 -
[91]
Originally by: NightmareX Replying with alts in School of Applied Knowledge wont change anything at all on what i mean and knows about the Tempest and Typhoon.
Well after a quick trip to Battleclinic & viewing your kill/loss (which is gonna be out of date) & your fittings, I wouldn't go bragging You fit Standard, haven't seen anything that stands out in setups & would get pretty much owned my most ppl! But meh, each to there own
My comments still stand though.. something is seriously out of whack with minny ships atm & require serious looking at instead of breaking a part of the game which already had counters (agree with the poly nerf).. even if everyone was just too damn lazy to employ them _____________________________________
Someone's swiped my avatar!!!
|
NightmareX
MAFIA Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 00:09:00 -
[92]
Originally by: whoyoulookingat
Originally by: NightmareX Replying with alts in School of Applied Knowledge wont change anything at all on what i mean and knows about the Tempest and Typhoon.
Well after a quick trip to Battleclinic & viewing your kill/loss (which is gonna be out of date) & your fittings, I wouldn't go bragging You fit Standard, haven't seen anything that stands out in setups & would get pretty much owned my most ppl! But meh, each to there own
My comments still stand though.. something is seriously out of whack with minny ships atm & require serious looking at instead of breaking a part of the game which already had counters (agree with the poly nerf).. even if everyone was just too damn lazy to employ them
Well i have been very busy in RL for ages now, but i'll try as much as i can to play EVE when i can.
And if you look at my earlier Tempest's setups, those setups sucks. There is a reason why i changed it lol.
Oh yeh, i can say to you right now what's wrong with the Tempest for example. The armor and shield hp are not right. Those 2 stats should be exchanged.
Change those 2 stats and make the Tempest more agile is the only think the Tempest actually need. Even when i know the Tempest have got more mass on sisi now.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 00:49:00 -
[93]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: whoyoulookingat
Originally by: NightmareX Replying with alts in School of Applied Knowledge wont change anything at all on what i mean and knows about the Tempest and Typhoon.
Well after a quick trip to Battleclinic & viewing your kill/loss (which is gonna be out of date) & your fittings, I wouldn't go bragging You fit Standard, haven't seen anything that stands out in setups & would get pretty much owned my most ppl! But meh, each to there own
My comments still stand though.. something is seriously out of whack with minny ships atm & require serious looking at instead of breaking a part of the game which already had counters (agree with the poly nerf).. even if everyone was just too damn lazy to employ them
Well i have been very busy in RL for ages now, but i'll try as much as i can to play EVE when i can.
And if you look at my earlier Tempest's setups, those setups sucks. There is a reason why i changed it lol.
Oh yeh, i can say to you right now what's wrong with the Tempest for example. The armor and shield hp are not right. Those 2 stats should be exchanged.
Change those 2 stats and make the Tempest more agile is the only think the Tempest actually need. Even when i know the Tempest have got more mass on sisi now.
Well no one ius really asking MUCH more than that. Change Shield/armor HP ratio. Give a bit less mass (and maybe signature).
That is enoguh for the ship. THe AC altough coudl use a review on the t1/faction ammo ( make fusion the top damage one and make Rep fleet top dam,age ammo close to the damage of Navy antimatter).
All these are very littel adjustments. Nothine anyone can call overpowering. But woudl help a lot. |
whoyoulookingat
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 01:02:00 -
[94]
Agree with the armor/shield HPS - that's one which people have been screaming about for a few years now! Still leaves us with massive issues on our guns! The EFT warriors will all scream that that projectile "X" does "Y" damage on EFT yet fail to take into account falloff, trans/radial vel. & then they also bleat that we can swap ammo types and have capless guns!!
In the middle of a Lagfest, how many have actually tried swapping out ammo ? or even better, when ur clip runs out & needs to reload?!
Earlier i went on sisi and for a laugh loaded up hail on my pest & found a nice geddon to shoot.. nailed it towards him, guns a blazing.. and hit bugger all!! Swapped out to barrage (luckily i think he was thinking wtf is he doing or i'd have been popped alot quicker) before getting any shots off by which time i was in optimal but also scrammed & webbed!! Now through all this, he was sat still so WTF - why were my guns missing with hail - even when i had them at optimal?!? Again, something seriously wrong there But if i'd stuck with Barrage, then i could have fought in falloff yet only with 50% of my actually DPS & minus the misses and other strange things projectiles like to do, i'd be more inclined to say I would have probably had around 25% of my effective DPS from the guns alone! You can imagine how long that would've taken to eat through his ship & if any of his buddies appeared, then cannon fodder time I was tempted to do a "LOL" factor and swap out to Arties but we won't even go down than route! ROFL
And there we have just a snippet of something that is seriously broken with Matar!! _____________________________________
Someone's swiped my avatar!!!
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 09:19:00 -
[95]
repair defender missles - those could compensate for the inferior hp, especially with the ugly T2 resistance hole.
- at least in minor skirmishes; 2 HAML w/ defenders still won't keep you from surviving the future blob of 20+
and its data dump says, it's got an explosion range of 500m... if it does what i think it does, pull it up to 2km
introduce republic fleet defender missles ^^
and unless something is done about T2 (heavy) drones hitting orbiting ships all day every day, have defenders hit them in some kind of F.o.F. manner aswell. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Schmell
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 09:41:00 -
[96]
Totally agreed. I dont understand, why Matari BS`s (worst of all now) gained mass and lost speed? CCP balancing team encountered mass amnezia, i think.
|
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 09:42:00 -
[97]
they played eft with siege misiles with all 5 chars i think
|
Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 00:12:00 -
[98]
I have played eve through thick and thin for years now but never have I been so disgusted in their total lack of fines, this nerf to speed is so far beyond anything conceivable in any other MMO I have ever seen that if those other MMO's even tried it, you would be finding a new game balance team in charge in no time.
I may joke about CCP's Alcohol induced Dementia but I aint laughting about their current attempts at balance. Perhaps I should give this game WoW a go and see how that fares.
One last thing, May I remind CCP that even if they just **** off 1% of their player base, that because the vast majority of people have 2+ accounts, they are looking at a minimum of a 2% loss in subscriptions. Best to be subtle when changing things, to fart in your clients faces doesn't give you brownie points. It looses you money.
No my stuff is mine, don't waste your time typing "your stuff >ME", personally such a question should incur a ban for a week for been a nub.
|
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 00:47:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Nian Banks I have played eve through thick and thin for years now but never have I been so disgusted in their total lack of fines, this nerf to speed is so far beyond anything conceivable in any other MMO I have ever seen that if those other MMO's even tried it, you would be finding a new game balance team in charge in no time.
I may joke about CCP's Alcohol induced Dementia but I aint laughting about their current attempts at balance. Perhaps I should give this game WoW a go and see how that fares.
One last thing, May I remind CCP that even if they just **** off 1% of their player base, that because the vast majority of people have 2+ accounts, they are looking at a minimum of a 2% loss in subscriptions. Best to be subtle when changing things, to fart in your clients faces doesn't give you brownie points. It looses you money.
No my stuff is mine, don't waste your time typing "your stuff >ME", personally such a question should incur a ban for a week for been a nub.
hmm I'd try and argue to wait for it to hit test server or to tell you ccp are aware of the problem but both of those sound of bull sh*t. I've yet to find ccp say anywhere they think there is a problem with minmatar or even say they are looking into it (they are looking into missiles apperantly though)..... odds are it will be a year or so before ccp realise that minmatar have been ****ed and mostly ppl fly them for their rp value. Then we'll only have to wait for a year before ccp decide to hit minmatar with some sort of weird boost that completely changes how they work so we have to retrain for the new thing they do just in time for it to get nerfed again... or maybe they will fix them properly who knows.
anyways in the mean time I'll be flying the scimitar (it's half decent) and the exhumer.
|
Tash D'Angst
Sturmgrenadier Inc Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 03:56:00 -
[100]
Originally by: whoyoulookingat ...minus the misses and other strange things projectiles like to do, ...
What is it with projectiles? In the past two weeks, I've been shooting at a number of Stations and POS's (Towers, not just guns). At perfect optimal with T1 Projectile Ammo and 2x Tracking Computer II's (with Tracking Speed Scripts), at a flat stop in a Tempest, my 1400mm Arty II's are doing damage from "barely scratches" to "perfectly strikes". The targets are far larger than the turret Resolution, I was at perfect optimal range, no transversal (as they are anchored and I was at 0 speed)-- how the **** can you account for that much of a fluctuation in damage?
Is it speed that breaks the physics engine, or is the physics engine broken by default?
I naturally assumed that this was typical of all Turrets in Eve, but as I have 22m sp dedicated solely to Minmatar (sucks for me post-patch, I know), I really don't have experience with other weapons system.
So... what's the deal? Am I missing something?
|
|
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 04:25:00 -
[101]
I really can not agree with you here.
1st of all minmatar ships will allways we the fastest and most agile ships in the game. This leads us directly to the point why minmatar battleships might not beat other races 1v1. Its quite simple the BS class was not designed to be super fast ships they are more like heavy hitters.
The slot layouts imo are not really that bad when you think about it again. Take Amarr for example. Amarr has lots of low slots ok. So they can run a pretty decent armor tank with lots of hitpoints and resistances, but in return need then use the slots for the armor tank while any shield tanking ship has its low slots free for damage mods. This means you can still run a pretty strong tank + hit very hard. (I am sure a ship with 3 damage mods and ACs hits harder than a ship with 0 dmg mods and pulse lasers).
The point that they dont use cap to fire can be an advantage as well. Take amarr again as example. If you fly an abaddon with 8xt2 megapulse you will cap out just by using your guns, when you do not have a cap injector fitted. (At least when you want to use high damage crystals). This means you have no other choice than running a buffer tank but still are very vulnerable to cap warfare since you can just sit there and await your death when you get neutralised (lots of hp just will make it take longer to kill you).
Sniping Ships:
Sniping Setups are not really as nice as they used to be for all races. You might get enough range with 2xsensor boosters and a few tracking enhancers/computers, but no race really has enough slots on their sniper ships to get an alpha strike which is hitting hard enough to instapop ships + get 200+km locking range + the right optimal + a half way decent locking time+ being cap stable.
Speed:
Smaller ships which are supposed to be fast is where minmatar got the advantage and this wont change. For example vagabonds might get slowed down a little bit, but the same will happen to other races hacs and i am pretty much sure the speed ratio of the vaga compared to other hacs will remain pretty much the same (The same counts for other ship classes).
Hitpoints:
Minmatar ships can still have pretty decent hp armor tanks. Of course not as high as other races but since they dont have a role as heavy tankers that should be epected.
|
Soyemia
Minmatar Art of War
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 04:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jim Hazard I really can not agree with you here.
1st of all minmatar ships will allways we the fastest and most agile ships in the game. This leads us directly to the point why minmatar battleships might not beat other races 1v1. Its quite simple the BS class was not designed to be super fast ships they are more like heavy hitters.
The slot layouts imo are not really that bad when you think about it again. Take Amarr for example. Amarr has lots of low slots ok. So they can run a pretty decent armor tank with lots of hitpoints and resistances, but in return need then use the slots for the armor tank while any shield tanking ship has its low slots free for damage mods. This means you can still run a pretty strong tank + hit very hard. (I am sure a ship with 3 damage mods and ACs hits harder than a ship with 0 dmg mods and pulse lasers).
The point that they dont use cap to fire can be an advantage as well. Take amarr again as example. If you fly an abaddon with 8xt2 megapulse you will cap out just by using your guns, when you do not have a cap injector fitted. (At least when you want to use high damage crystals). This means you have no other choice than running a buffer tank but still are very vulnerable to cap warfare since you can just sit there and await your death when you get neutralised (lots of hp just will make it take longer to kill you).
Sniping Ships:
Sniping Setups are not really as nice as they used to be for all races. You might get enough range with 2xsensor boosters and a few tracking enhancers/computers, but no race really has enough slots on their sniper ships to get an alpha strike which is hitting hard enough to instapop ships + get 200+km locking range + the right optimal + a half way decent locking time+ being cap stable.
Speed:
Smaller ships which are supposed to be fast is where minmatar got the advantage and this wont change. For example vagabonds might get slowed down a little bit, but the same will happen to other races hacs and i am pretty much sure the speed ratio of the vaga compared to other hacs will remain pretty much the same (The same counts for other ship classes).
Hitpoints:
Minmatar ships can still have pretty decent hp armor tanks. Of course not as high as other races but since they dont have a role as heavy tankers that should be epected.
You are wrong. Read the changes before commenting. In sisi minmatar ships arent pretty much any more agile / fast but slower. Also the advantage given by speed / agility has been made smaller as no other mods have been changed but web and scram...
Slot layouts arent bad but no race has really bad slot layouts... ACs with 3 damage mods could maybe outdamage megapulses in their optimal, but after like 10-15km not... With injector u have more than enough cap on a buffer tanked abaddon, and nowadays that selfrepping is pretty stupid, the cap using guns arent too big of a problem. Not a real advantage here.
Err... All othe other races can hit at 180km-200km and be DD proof.
And no minmatar cant field decent HP armor tanks. The others have like 20-30 percent better tanks. And thats a lot dude.
Official BoB fanboy. Called Stabemia. Corp hopper. |
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 05:13:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 05:16:00
Originally by: Soyemia
You are wrong. Read the changes before commenting. In sisi minmatar ships arent pretty much any more agile / fast but slower. Also the advantage given by speed / agility has been made smaller as no other mods have been changed but web and scram...
Slot layouts arent bad but no race has really bad slot layouts... ACs with 3 damage mods could maybe outdamage megapulses in their optimal, but after like 10-15km not... With injector u have more than enough cap on a buffer tanked abaddon, and nowadays that selfrepping is pretty stupid, the cap using guns arent too big of a problem. Not a real advantage here.
Err... All othe other races can hit at 180km-200km and be DD proof.
And no minmatar cant field decent HP armor tanks. The others have like 20-30 percent better tanks. And thats a lot dude.
A Tempest can hit at 198 KM and is able to survive a DD then (would be bombed down to arround 90% structure but still would survive it).
The phoon can run a pretty decent buffer tank. no question it would be not as strong as the buffer tank of amarrian ships, but as i said that should be expected.
The point that active tanks are not used anymore is a really narrow minded point of view. Of course in fleet Battles you will not use an active tank since in that case its pointless.
But in smaller gangs like 4-5 ships it still makes sense to fit a tank which is active to a certain degree as well as you would want to use an active tank when you are a low sec pirate since you would not want to go to the next stations every 3 minutes because of sentrys shooting you down all the time (unless you want to warp back and forth all the time).
edit: I never said that minmatar ships will not be slower than they are now. I said the ratio to other races ships will remain more or less the same.
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 06:30:00 -
[104]
well... as long as it's more viable to bring[Apocalypse, New Setup 1] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Energy Locus Coordinator II Energy Locus Coordinator II Energy Locus Coordinator I and a scimitar/oneiros on serpentis tracking links (= 177km optimal) instead of three sniping BS, i think amarr should shut up real quick. (be my guest, fit some resistances but then include remote reps from the logistics aswell) - putting the gist back into logistics |
Galan Undris
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 09:31:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Galan Undris on 11/08/2008 09:31:42
Originally by: Jim Hazard edit: I never said that minmatar ships will not be slower than they are now. I said the ratio to other races ships will remain more or less the same.
That's not the current status. What's going on now is that Minmatar ships have gained a lot of mass while other, typically slower ships, of other races got about the same or less mass than they currently have. Agility modifiers does not make up for it, if fact, even Caldari ships have align times rivaling us, and that's before considering they don't rely on plates on half their ships.
About ratios of speeds, look at the chart in the dev-blog. You'll see that the ratio between the fast and slow ships as well as the standard deviation in speeds are lowered across all ship classes. While we're still going to have at least one "fastest" option in most classes we're definatly not going to be the "fastest and most agile" at the same ratios we have now.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 10:57:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
edit: I never said that minmatar ships will not be slower than they are now. I said the ratio to other races ships will remain more or less the same.
And youa re failing to read the answers. The Ration is NOT preserved! Minmatar ships got hit HRADEST than others because minmatar used to be thelighest race and now is the heaviest!!!! CAldari are the most agile and light ones!!
So stop answerign until You log in on sis and check! Your typhoon is way less agile and accelerate waaay slower than a raven now! |
Soyemia
Minmatar Art of War
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 11:05:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Jim Hazard Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 05:13:30 I really can not agree with you here.
1st of all minmatar ships will allways we the fastest and most agile ships in the game. This leads us directly to the point why minmatar battleships might not beat other races 1v1. Its quite simple the BS class was not designed to be super fast ships they are more like heavy hitters.
The slot layouts imo are not really that bad when you think about it again. Take Amarr for example. Amarr has lots of low slots ok. So they can run a pretty decent armor tank with lots of hitpoints and resistances, but in return need then use the slots for the armor tank while any shield tanking ship has its low slots free for damage mods. This means you can still run a pretty strong tank + hit very hard. (I am sure a ship with 3 damage mods and ACs hits harder than a ship with 0 dmg mods and pulse lasers).
The point that they dont use cap to fire can be an advantage as well. Take amarr again as example. If you fly an abaddon with 8xt2 megapulse you will cap out just by using your guns, when you do not have a cap injector fitted. (At least when you want to use high damage crystals). This means you have no other choice than running a buffer tank but still are very vulnerable to cap warfare since you can just sit there and await your death when you get neutralised (lots of hp just will make it take longer to kill you).
Sniping Ships:
Sniping Setups are not really as nice as they used to be for all races. You might get enough range with 2xsensor boosters and a few tracking enhancers/computers, but no race really has enough slots on their sniper ships to get an alpha strike which is hitting hard enough to instapop ships + get 200+km locking range + the right optimal + a half way decent locking time+ being cap stable.
Speed:
Smaller ships which are supposed to be fast is where minmatar got the advantage and this wont change. For example vagabonds might get slowed down a little bit, but the same will happen to other races hacs and i am pretty much sure the speed ratio of the vaga compared to other hacs will remain pretty much the same (The same counts for other ship classes).
Hitpoints:
Minmatar ships can still have pretty decent hp armor tanks. Of course not as high as other races but since they dont have a role as heavy tankers that should be expected.
Its not worth discussing with you when you havent eve read the changes. And even if we were faster at the same ratio, it would not matter so much anymore. Speeds meaniung in PvP has been lowered, because range etc. havent changed. Go do some PvP in sing and read the changes. |
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 12:34:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Soyemia
Its not worth discussing with you when you havent eve read the changes. And even if we were faster at the same ratio, it would not matter so much anymore. Speeds meaniung in PvP has been lowered, because range etc. havent changed. Go do some PvP in sing and read the changes.
1st of all i read the dev block several times and also have been on sing to take a look at it and actually all i see is a better balance and speedboats which are not invulnerable anymore, which is the main point here.
Someone like you of course feels disadvantaged when all of a sudden you risk to get hit when you engage some1 in your vagabond, but since you allways used to be a whiner I really do not expect any insight from you.
|
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 13:02:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Soyemia
Its not worth discussing with you when you havent eve read the changes. And even if we were faster at the same ratio, it would not matter so much anymore. Speeds meaniung in PvP has been lowered, because range etc. havent changed. Go do some PvP in sing and read the changes.
1st of all i read the dev block several times and also have been on sing to take a look at it and actually all i see is a better balance and speedboats which are not invulnerable anymore, which is the main point here.
Someone like you of course feels disadvantaged when all of a sudden you risk to get hit when you engage some1 in your vagabond, but since you allways used to be a whiner I really do not expect any insight from you.
wtb cagabond on tranq you are talking about, becouse i dont know that one.
|
Asterisk Grat
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 13:12:00 -
[110]
Tempest, since it's not very high dps, not the best alpha anymore, and nerfed T2 ammo with tracking computer nerfs, should be this:
- The lightest, most agile BS of all.
No wonder amongst battleships it's usually primary because of the weakest tank, so why not make it the fastest sniper out of all ships, it's tank is already paper thin when it's setup as a true sniper.
This will follow minmatar guerrilla warfare strategy, snipe and warp out. Hope CCP reads this.
|
|
Soyemia
Minmatar Art of War
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 14:49:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Soyemia
Its not worth discussing with you when you havent eve read the changes. And even if we were faster at the same ratio, it would not matter so much anymore. Speeds meaniung in PvP has been lowered, because range etc. havent changed. Go do some PvP in sing and read the changes.
1st of all i read the dev block several times and also have been on sing to take a look at it and actually all i see is a better balance and speedboats which are not invulnerable anymore, which is the main point here.
Someone like you of course feels disadvantaged when all of a sudden you risk to get hit when you engage some1 in your vagabond, but since you allways used to be a whiner I really do not expect any insight from you.
1st if you had a look in my killboard stats, I Mostly dont fly nano. Tell me what good tempest is? Tell me how 'phoon isnt just an average BS with super high skills reqa? Tell me what maelstrom does specially good (Hint: neitther tank or gank: or both at the same time).
What good is vaga under 4km/s? Official BoB fanboy. Called Stabemia. Corp hopper. |
Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 15:30:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Jim Hazard Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 05:16:00
Originally by: Soyemia
You are wrong. Read the changes before commenting. In sisi minmatar ships arent pretty much any more agile / fast but slower. Also the advantage given by speed / agility has been made smaller as no other mods have been changed but web and scram...
Slot layouts arent bad but no race has really bad slot layouts... ACs with 3 damage mods could maybe outdamage megapulses in their optimal, but after like 10-15km not... With injector u have more than enough cap on a buffer tanked abaddon, and nowadays that selfrepping is pretty stupid, the cap using guns arent too big of a problem. Not a real advantage here.
Err... All othe other races can hit at 180km-200km and be DD proof.
And no minmatar cant field decent HP armor tanks. The others have like 20-30 percent better tanks. And thats a lot dude.
A Tempest can hit at 198 KM and is able to survive a DD then (would be bombed down to arround 90% structure but still would survive it).
The phoon can run a pretty decent buffer tank. no question it would be not as strong as the buffer tank of amarrian ships, but as i said that should be expected.
The point that active tanks are not used anymore is a really narrow minded point of view. Of course in fleet Battles you will not use an active tank since in that case its pointless.
But in smaller gangs like 4-5 ships it still makes sense to fit a tank which is active to a certain degree as well as you would want to use an active tank when you are a low sec pirate since you would not want to go to the next stations every 3 minutes because of sentrys shooting you down all the time (unless you want to warp back and forth all the time).
edit: I never said that minmatar ships will not be slower than they are now. I said the ratio to other races ships will remain more or less the same.
Tempest will hit at max falloff at 200km if you are tanking it for dd. Thats 130 dps. Maybe that much. That's pathetic. It takes three rigs and multiple RCUs to get the optimal to the range everyone else is used to shooting from.
What you said about a using an active tank as a low sec pirate is misinformed. When you see a pirate ship fitting 3 1600 plates and 3 trimarks but they still have one repper, that isn't an active tank. That's not even there for tanking. It's there for repair at a safespot AFTER the fight. It is NOT there to keep the ship alive during combat. So I wouldn't refer to it as a tank at all.
I DO use an active tank for low sec piracy. Dual rep, 1 repair speed rig, 2 repair amount rigs. It is probably the WRONG way to do things. But whatever, its the setup I wanted to use when I started playing and I will use it until my tempest meets its death.
I often find that one repper is enough to stave off the gate guns and badly fit battlecruiser targets, or drakes. The second repper is enough to maybe tank a low dps battleship while under gate fire. But the tempest's gun dps is incredibly sad, the only way I break tanks is with two heavy neuts, resulting in my cap getting rediculously low. My only hope for winning these fights is to cap out my targets before I get capped out, and slowly grind them down with my crap dps. I believe my eft dps is 400 without drones (cant use them when pirating) and its even worse when the target is at a distance. It's sad really.
Got a kill yesterday with a typhoon in gang. He has bs 4 and was using tech 1 cruise launchers, 4 of them, with one bonus to them. I have bs 5, tech 2 guns, 6 of them with two bonuses to them. I locked faster, started shooting sooner, and he was 30% higher on the mail.
The only reasoning is that the missiles' alpha pushed him up. But 20 - 30%? Really? What the **** are all these skills for if I can't even come close.
I'm not an expert pirate and I'm probably doing it all wrong, but I have pvped for ages.
Soon as I can use a geddon I'm switching.
|
Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 16:34:00 -
[113]
I agree with the OP, although I think we will have to wait for a long time for CCP to fix anything, look how long the ammar whined for before they got boosted |
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 17:37:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Soyemia
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Soyemia
Its not worth discussing with you when you havent eve read the changes. And even if we were faster at the same ratio, it would not matter so much anymore. Speeds meaniung in PvP has been lowered, because range etc. havent changed. Go do some PvP in sing and read the changes.
1st of all i read the dev block several times and also have been on sing to take a look at it and actually all i see is a better balance and speedboats which are not invulnerable anymore, which is the main point here.
Someone like you of course feels disadvantaged when all of a sudden you risk to get hit when you engage some1 in your vagabond, but since you allways used to be a whiner I really do not expect any insight from you.
1st if you had a look in my killboard stats, I Mostly dont fly nano. Tell me what good tempest is? Tell me how 'phoon isnt just an average BS with super high skills reqa? Tell me what maelstrom does specially good (Hint: neitther tank or gank: or both at the same time).
What good is vaga under 4km/s?
Well Soy... nice that you never fly nano ships... sad thing when you try to fool some1 who used to be in awar as well and has seen you flying nano ships all the time... but hey... you do not fly nano ships....
|
jerrard iceni
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 17:55:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jim Hazard 1st of all i read the dev block several times and also have been on sing to take a look at it and actually all i see is a better balance and speedboats which are not invulnerable anymore, which is the main point here.
Either you dont pvp or you havent been on sisi - but there isnt a better balance. Oh, and except for the ships pimped to the max, speedboats where never invulnerable.
If the main point of the changes was to create balance then ccp have gone about it the wrong way. Wide spread heavy handed changes when all that was needed was some tweaking is a great development policy. Not.
Originally by: Jim Hazard Someone like you of course feels disadvantaged when all of a sudden you risk to get hit when you engage some1 in your vagabond, but since you allways used to be a whiner I really do not expect any insight from you.
Vaga pilots arnt worried about being hit, as they take damage plenty enough already on tranq. But the vaga hasnt got the cap,bonuses or adequate hp to tank properly anyother way then by speed tanking. On sisi atm the vaga is an easy easy ship to kill
|
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 19:31:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 19:36:19
Originally by: jerrard iceni
Originally by: Jim Hazard 1st of all i read the dev block several times and also have been on sing to take a look at it and actually all i see is a better balance and speedboats which are not invulnerable anymore, which is the main point here.
Either you dont pvp or you havent been on sisi - but there isnt a better balance. Oh, and except for the ships pimped to the max, speedboats where never invulnerable.
If the main point of the changes was to create balance then ccp have gone about it the wrong way. Wide spread heavy handed changes when all that was needed was some tweaking is a great development policy. Not.
Originally by: Jim Hazard Someone like you of course feels disadvantaged when all of a sudden you risk to get hit when you engage some1 in your vagabond, but since you allways used to be a whiner I really do not expect any insight from you.
Vaga pilots arnt worried about being hit, as they take damage plenty enough already on tranq. But the vaga hasnt got the cap,bonuses or adequate hp to tank properly anyother way then by speed tanking. On sisi atm the vaga is an easy easy ship to kill
So when there is not a balance issue right now then tell me which ship can destroy a vagabond as long as the vaga Pilot does not totally mess up.
A tech 2 fitted vaga goes easily 6k.
No Battleship will be able to hit it. No other hac/recon will be able to keep up with it. Curse can make the vaga run but 1 mwd cycle is enough to get far away enough to get into warp. Ceptors cant hold a vaga since they will die in no time. Hugin / Rapier might beat a vaga if they get lucky, but 1v1 the vaga still has a pretty good chance to either kill the opponent.
Vagabond is pretty much the only ship which has a 99% chance to survive when you jump solo into a bigger camp.
So killing a Vagabond 1 on 1 is almost impossible (unless the vaga Pilot makes a mistake) no matter how skilled you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter how good your fitting is. This simply means its overpowered and needs to be changed.
edit: to add.. its tanking ability is not to bad for a cruiser....
earlier I encountered a Vagabond which was camping a gate in 0.0. I jumped on it with a navy omen and he made the mistake to get into web range. Even though that navy omen deals 520dps (including drones) he had enough time to deagress and jump through the gate. And it was a nano fitted vagabond just with LSEs.
|
Destructor1792
Minmatar Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 20:45:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
So when there is not a balance issue right now then tell me which ship can destroy a vagabond as long as the vaga Pilot does not totally mess up.
A tech 2 fitted vaga goes easily 6k.
No Battleship will be able to hit it. No other hac/recon will be able to keep up with it. Curse can make the vaga run but 1 mwd cycle is enough to get far away enough to get into warp. Ceptors cant hold a vaga since they will die in no time. Hugin / Rapier might beat a vaga if they get lucky, but 1v1 the vaga still has a pretty good chance to either kill the opponent.
Vagabond is pretty much the only ship which has a 99% chance to survive when you jump solo into a bigger camp.
So killing a Vagabond 1 on 1 is almost impossible (unless the vaga Pilot makes a mistake) no matter how skilled you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter how good your fitting is. This simply means its overpowered and needs to be changed.
edit: to add.. its tanking ability is not to bad for a cruiser....
earlier I encountered a Vagabond which was camping a gate in 0.0. I jumped on it with a navy omen and he made the mistake to get into web range. Even though that navy omen deals 520dps (including drones) he had enough time to deagress and jump through the gate. And it was a nano fitted vagabond just with LSEs.
Oh dear Jim - U don't know many tactics do you?!? And guess what - a majority of ships will be able to de-agress and slow boat it back to the gate NOT just the vaga That vaga pilot was smart by knowing when to GTFO before popping.. you on the other hand are whining because he got away Did you de-aggress as well & jump after him ? NO ?? oh dear!!
Just think yourself lucky it wasn't a HAC that can actually deal out the DPS although i'm guessing you'd still be on here whining due to losing your ship or you wouldn't have a attempted a tackle knowing you'd have had your ass handed to you
You thought "OOH VAGA - easy kill for me" which states that as a HAC, the ship is way underpowered compared to the rest.. Thankyou for supporting this post ______________________________________
Bringing The Fun Back
I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak. |
jerrard iceni
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 20:50:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Jim Hazard So when there is not a balance issue right now then tell me which ship can destroy a vagabond as long as the vaga Pilot does not totally mess up.
A tech 2 fitted vaga goes easily 6k.
No Battleship will be able to hit it. No other hac/recon will be able to keep up with it. Curse can make the vaga run but 1 mwd cycle is enough to get far away enough to get into warp. Ceptors cant hold a vaga since they will die in no time. Hugin / Rapier might beat a vaga if they get lucky, but 1v1 the vaga still has a pretty good chance to either kill the opponent.
Vagabond is pretty much the only ship which has a 99% chance to survive when you jump solo into a bigger camp.
So killing a Vagabond 1 on 1 is almost impossible (unless the vaga Pilot makes a mistake) no matter how skilled you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter how good your fitting is. This simply means its overpowered and needs to be changed.
edit: to add.. its tanking ability is not to bad for a cruiser.....
I didnt say that nanos where balanced, just read my earlier posts in other threads. But you are over playing the power of the vaga.
There are plenty of ships that are able to kill the vagabond. Properly fit BS, especially the raven, curse/pilgrim, rapier/huginn, nano ishtars to name a few. Hell, i've even seen ruptures, muninns and bellicoses beat vaga's in 1v1s. Just because the usual victims of a vagabond are ratting ships doesnt mean its overpowered. And to say that a huginn/rapier can only kill a vagabond if they get lucky is just ludicrous tbqfh. If that really was the case then why do nearly all vaga pilots give those 2 ships such a wide birth? (ie avoid them)
As for the average vaga moving at somewhere between 5-6000 m/s, thats a mute point. In a pvp situation the vaga doesnt have the cap to sustain the mwd for any period of time and while the mwd is on its dps drops to pitiful levels. So it needs to burst its mwd, during which time it will be taking damage.
The comment about the vaga being the only ship to have a 99% chance of surviving a gate camp is just anal tbh. If a vaga can survive a gate camp then dont you think its possible that a smaller,faster,more agile ship (ie interceptors) would also have no problem getting through the same camps? And lets not forget about recons & cov-ops. These ships require alot of attention and skill to catch in a camp after they have cloaked. So to claim that only a vaga can survive a gate camp is just incorrect.
Originally by: Jim Hazard earlier I encountered a Vagabond which was camping a gate in 0.0. I jumped on it with a navy omen and he made the mistake to get into web range. Even though that navy omen deals 520dps (including drones) he had enough time to deagress and jump through the gate. And it was a nano fitted vagabond just with LSEs.
Tbh this really doesnt prove anything about the vagas tank. I can tank sentys long enough in my huginn to pop industrials, but that doesnt mean it would hold upto any sort of punishment in how pvp stands on sisi atm. Tbh theres alot of things that your little example doesnt take into consideration and it sounds like your omen was doing less than 520dps.
|
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 21:13:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Destructor1792
Originally by: Jim Hazard
So when there is not a balance issue right now then tell me which ship can destroy a vagabond as long as the vaga Pilot does not totally mess up.
A tech 2 fitted vaga goes easily 6k.
No Battleship will be able to hit it. No other hac/recon will be able to keep up with it. Curse can make the vaga run but 1 mwd cycle is enough to get far away enough to get into warp. Ceptors cant hold a vaga since they will die in no time. Hugin / Rapier might beat a vaga if they get lucky, but 1v1 the vaga still has a pretty good chance to either kill the opponent.
Vagabond is pretty much the only ship which has a 99% chance to survive when you jump solo into a bigger camp.
So killing a Vagabond 1 on 1 is almost impossible (unless the vaga Pilot makes a mistake) no matter how skilled you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter how good your fitting is. This simply means its overpowered and needs to be changed.
edit: to add.. its tanking ability is not to bad for a cruiser....
earlier I encountered a Vagabond which was camping a gate in 0.0. I jumped on it with a navy omen and he made the mistake to get into web range. Even though that navy omen deals 520dps (including drones) he had enough time to deagress and jump through the gate. And it was a nano fitted vagabond just with LSEs.
Oh dear Jim - U don't know many tactics do you?!? And guess what - a majority of ships will be able to de-agress and slow boat it back to the gate NOT just the vaga That vaga pilot was smart by knowing when to GTFO before popping.. you on the other hand are whining because he got away Did you de-aggress as well & jump after him ? NO ?? oh dear!!
Just think yourself lucky it wasn't a HAC that can actually deal out the DPS although i'm guessing you'd still be on here whining due to losing your ship or you wouldn't have a attempted a tackle knowing you'd have had your ass handed to you
You thought "OOH VAGA - easy kill for me" which states that as a HAC, the ship is way underpowered compared to the rest.. Thankyou for supporting this post
I am not whining that the vaga got away.. its fine that he he noticed he made a mistake and that its smarter to deagress at that point and to escape. Thats not the point. All i am saying is that it can take more hits than people pretend it can take.
easy kill? no way. That was what most likely he was thinking heading straight towars me coming close enough to me to web him. If he would have stayed in a 20km orbit i would have been an easy kill for him. Also a faction cruiser being able to match HAC does not mean that the HAC is underpowered since they cost the same and fill the same role.
for the navy omens fitting:
2x800mm plate 1xdcu 2xHS II 2xEAM II
web/scram/AB
5xDual medium Pulse II (Amarr navy Multifrequency) (All skills level 5 including medium spec) 5xHobgoblin II
feel free to run the numbers. it deals arround 520 dps with that setup.
|
carleyjones
Caldari Blood and Silver
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 23:04:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: Destructor1792
Originally by: Jim Hazard
So when there is not a balance issue right now then tell me which ship can destroy a vagabond as long as the vaga Pilot does not totally mess up.
A tech 2 fitted vaga goes easily 6k.
No Battleship will be able to hit it. No other hac/recon will be able to keep up with it. Curse can make the vaga run but 1 mwd cycle is enough to get far away enough to get into warp. Ceptors cant hold a vaga since they will die in no time. Hugin / Rapier might beat a vaga if they get lucky, but 1v1 the vaga still has a pretty good chance to either kill the opponent.
Vagabond is pretty much the only ship which has a 99% chance to survive when you jump solo into a bigger camp.
So killing a Vagabond 1 on 1 is almost impossible (unless the vaga Pilot makes a mistake) no matter how skilled you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter how good your fitting is. This simply means its overpowered and needs to be changed.
edit: to add.. its tanking ability is not to bad for a cruiser....
earlier I encountered a Vagabond which was camping a gate in 0.0. I jumped on it with a navy omen and he made the mistake to get into web range. Even though that navy omen deals 520dps (including drones) he had enough time to deagress and jump through the gate. And it was a nano fitted vagabond just with LSEs.
Oh dear Jim - U don't know many tactics do you?!? And guess what - a majority of ships will be able to de-agress and slow boat it back to the gate NOT just the vaga That vaga pilot was smart by knowing when to GTFO before popping.. you on the other hand are whining because he got away Did you de-aggress as well & jump after him ? NO ?? oh dear!!
Just think yourself lucky it wasn't a HAC that can actually deal out the DPS although i'm guessing you'd still be on here whining due to losing your ship or you wouldn't have a attempted a tackle knowing you'd have had your ass handed to you
You thought "OOH VAGA - easy kill for me" which states that as a HAC, the ship is way underpowered compared to the rest.. Thankyou for supporting this post
I am not whining that the vaga got away.. its fine that he he noticed he made a mistake and that its smarter to deagress at that point and to escape. Thats not the point. All i am saying is that it can take more hits than people pretend it can take.
easy kill? no way. That was what most likely he was thinking heading straight towars me coming close enough to me to web him. If he would have stayed in a 20km orbit i would have been an easy kill for him. Also a faction cruiser being able to match HAC does not mean that the HAC is underpowered since they cost the same and fill the same role.
for the navy omens fitting:
2x800mm plate 1xdcu 2xHS II 2xEAM II
web/scram/AB
5xDual medium Pulse II (Amarr navy Multifrequency) (All skills level 5 including medium spec) 5xHobgoblin II
feel free to run the numbers. it deals arround 520 dps with that setup.
Wtf?? Since when has a faction cruiser (in this case a navy omen) filled the same role as a HAC (in this case a vagabond) lol They are two completely different ships with different roles and fly styles.
Your omen probaley does do 500+ dps in eft, but in actual pvp with all the different factors considered it would be alot less than that
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |