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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:11:00 -
[31]
Edited by: TornSoul on 07/08/2008 19:12:33
Originally by: cosmoray Why should you listen to your shareholders, its only THEIR business.
Originally by: TornSoul
come up with some constructive ways of making BMBE a success instead.
*That* I'll gladly listen to.
BIG Lottery |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.07 23:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: cosmoray shareholders, its only THEIR business.
Perhaps you should rather imply that shareholders are stupid, rather then the management (ok, TS), doing something illogical.
Consider from her point of view:
1) Divide ISK back to investors, on plus side get some less work, but retain fame of bad manager
2) Hold on the ISK as entitled by agreement, get 40% of any profit it generates over time, and have chance of restoring faith on the project/self.
Although it might be 'fair' that TS gave up the ISK (if shareholders so wanted), it might be as fair that she should divide her excess ISK to the poor of Eve.
-Lasse for whom it turned out to be profitable journey as an investor
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.08.08 03:51:00 -
[33]
I don't have a financial background and to be honest I don't fully understand all of the ins and outs of IPO's but I have a question that I think someone in this thread can answer. Is it still considered an IPO if the investors have no say in any part of the business? I ask this because I remember seeing someone explaining what an IPO is and they mentioned that in an IPO the shareholders have some say as to how the company is run or in which direction is operates. Can someone clarify for me please? Thanks.
Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.08 07:46:00 -
[34]
It's because in the real world, a 'share' is literally a share in the ownership of the business. i.e. If someone owns shares they own a part of the business and hence have a voice in decision making.
In Eve of course, we only have shares to work with. We can't issue bonds or anything like that so when financial types own 'shares' in a corporation they expect to be able to vote on things.
If the original document stated that shareholders have no say in the running of things then that's how it should be kept. As TS says, put your shares up for sale if you want to cash out. You may lose a little cash but at least you don't lose everything and I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to take a chance on BMBE recovering and buy a few. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.08 15:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 I don't have a financial background and to be honest I don't fully understand all of the ins and outs of IPO's but I have a question that I think someone in this thread can answer. Is it still considered an IPO if the investors have no say in any part of the business? I ask this because I remember seeing someone explaining what an IPO is and they mentioned that in an IPO the shareholders have some say as to how the company is run or in which direction is operates. Can someone clarify for me please? Thanks.
Sure.
As I originally laid out Share and Bond models here, let me provide an excerpt:
What is a Share?
Shares are sometimes referred to as stocks in the US, but in the UK this is not the case, and so I'll simply use the term share for purposes of clarity. A person or organization which holds at least a partial share of stocks is called a shareholder. Companies listed on either of the EVE exchanges are expected to strive to enhance shareholder value. The purchase of one share entitles the owner of that share to literally share in the ownership of the company and potentially a fraction of the profits, which the company may issue as dividends. In the event the company liquidates, share holders are entitled to a portion of the value of the company.
Shares (equity financing) 1) Partial ownership of the company (sometimes includes voting power) 2) Receives a fraction of the companies profits, and is based primarily on the performance of that company's business (Subject to the profit sharing plan and dividend schedule laid out in the Initial Public Offering (IPO)) 3) Can go on forever as long as the company continues to do business 4) Monthly or weekly reports expected 4) Entitled to a portion of the value of the company in case of liquidation.
Conclusions as it relates to BMBE
Equity ownership (owning part of the company) sometimes includes the ability to vote on decisions. However...in EVE this is sometimes silent ownership. It's not popular, or common, but shareholders are silent owners if nothing else.
Now, with that said, BMBE should be operating in the best interests of its shareholders, or more specifically:
"...strive to enhance shareholder value."
As history has shown, BMBE can not be effectively managed by TornSoul. I have absolutely nothing against him, I'm just pointing out that historically speaking he has never managed BMBE effectively which presents a significant risk to what shareholder value remains.
BMBE has no loans, no active form of revenue, and does not and likely will not pay dividends for quite some time. Do shares still have value? Absolutely they do, so long as BMBE itself has assets in the form of cash, stocks, bonds, ships, etc. Will the business continue to grow and provide significant shareholder value through dividends or appreciation in the value of its shares?
I do not believe so.
If BMBE wishes to act in the best interests of its shareholders, and strive to bring its shareholder's value, it really has only one option; liquidation. The other option is to be properly managed but as I mentioned previously I do not believe that will happen in a timely manner.
TornSoul needs to be honest with himself and his shareholders.
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.08 15:25:00 -
[36]
If TornSoul has confidence in BMBE he may feel free to buy my two shares of BMBE from me. At the stated share NAV. Alternately, anyone will to make an offer (close to NAV) may feel free to ask me for my shares.
I've held onto my shares for far too long as it is and I am not inclined to continue my long standing support of an organization that refuses to interact, or consider, shareholder equity, concerns, and wishes.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.08 16:05:00 -
[37]
I thought I should clarify my concerns here, as if those will matter, instead of the above statement.
When I purchased my two BMBE shares I paid 50M each. According to the dodgy accounting that Torn has posted those shares are now valued at 73M. Regardless of how you slice the numbers that is only a 23% increase in NAV. With half of "profit", minus management fee, going to increasing the nav one can assume that in almost three years of operation BMBE has had profit ratio of 1.2% per month (roughly). And this is with dodgy numbers in the paper value of 1/3rd of BMBE holdings.
I'm not going to get into the absolute blank wall that exists between management and investor(s). Even with my concerns regarding Ebank, depositors can at least vote their concerns by withdrawal requests.
BMBE has outlived itself.
Anything further I could say would just be harsh no matter how accurate.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Mephie
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.09 09:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shar Tegral [justify]If TornSoul has confidence in BMBE he may feel free to buy my two shares of BMBE from me. At the stated share NAV. Alternately, anyone will to make an offer (close to NAV) may feel free to ask me for my shares.
Back off jackyls. They're already mine =) --Meph
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