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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Napro on 06/08/2008 02:48:43 Why is this ******ed rule in effect?
What difference should it make whether or not a ship is locked to make the missiles do damage? Why do I have to watch them hit the enemy ship and leave myself vulnerable to turrets that hit instantly?
Any turret ship can uncloak, fire a volley with their turrets, and warp away within a few seconds... but I have to watch my missiles sail slowly towards the other ship... and I'll probably get vaporized before they get there by turrets.
So is this a server limitation or was this rule intended for some reason?
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:50:00 -
[2]
server performance issues.
They used to hit even when cloaked/warped away, but IIRC, it caused weirdness like kills with no killmails, etc. -
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Atrei Capital
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:53:00 -
[3]
guys
mislles should be instant like guns
but without tracking
alwys damage
maybe better, but caldari are elite in story, so only makes sense if caldari weapons is strongest
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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:54:00 -
[4]
... and who said Missiles should be instant?
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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari server performance issues.
They used to hit even when cloaked/warped away, but IIRC, it caused weirdness like kills with no killmails, etc.
Ah I see, thank you
Quite a big nerf there ... and over killmails that are still screwy
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari server performance issues.
They used to hit even when cloaked/warped away, but IIRC, it caused weirdness like kills with no killmails, etc.
Ah I see, thank you
Quite a big nerf there ... and over killmails that are still screwy
Not really. If you think about it, would you rather have less lag or that kill you may not get a killmail for because you cloaked/warped away? -
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masternerdguy
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Posted - 2008.08.06 03:03:00 -
[7]
well missiles arent an instahit gun
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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 03:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari server performance issues.
They used to hit even when cloaked/warped away, but IIRC, it caused weirdness like kills with no killmails, etc.
Ah I see, thank you
Quite a big nerf there ... and over killmails that are still screwy
What? How would this cause lag?
Not really. If you think about it, would you rather have less lag or that kill you may not get a killmail for because you cloaked/warped away?
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Artemis Rose
Odd End of the Universe
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Posted - 2008.08.06 03:53:00 -
[9]
As if missiles need something to make them even more widespread.
Seriously, its called a trade off.You get advantages over turrets and you have disadvantages. You don't get your cookie and eat it too. __________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.08.06 03:56:00 -
[10]
Hey would you look at that! My missiles just lost track of that ship that cloaked because they couldn't hold a lock on it. You know, kind of like what happens when things turn invisible. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.08.06 03:56:00 -
[11]
Cloaked ships also don't take damage from smartbombs and bombs though the first one will decloak them.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 04:03:00 -
[12]
Missiles shouldn't be instant (that's their drawback) but they should be faster than they are...
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.08.06 04:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua Cloaked ships also don't take damage from smartbombs and bombs though the first one will decloak them.
last I tested smartbombs did damage and did not decloak a cloaked ship
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.08.06 04:24:00 -
[14]
could have changed then :), which is good :)
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 04:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 06/08/2008 04:26:04
Originally by: Spaztick Hey would you look at that! My missiles just lost track of that ship that cloaked because they couldn't hold a lock on it. You know, kind of like what happens when things turn invisible.
He's not complaining about people cloaking in the presence of imminent missile hits (how often would that happen, given that you can't cloak if you're targeted anyway?).
He's asking why your missiles veer off course and lose target if you cloak / lose lock (do they in fact veer off if you just lose lock / are jammed?).
@OP: Don't know, but consider what you could do in hisec with stealth bombers if you could uncloak, launch a volley, and cloak. Even if concord spawns as soon as you fire the launchers I'm willing to bet that you can be faster on the cloak, and I think you don't get CONCORD aggro until the missiles actually hit anyway.
Basically you could use stealth bombers to shoot whoever you want in hisec without getting concord'd (although you would be unable to decloak for any respectable length of time until you don't have the GCC anymore).
EDIT: If they hit even after you warped.... you could fire a volley of torps or something, while aligned, and then instantly warp to a far-away station (if there is one) and dock, since you may be able to wear off the docking aggression timer while in warp. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.06 04:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Terianna Eri Edited by: Terianna Eri on 06/08/2008 04:26:04
Originally by: Spaztick Hey would you look at that! My missiles just lost track of that ship that cloaked because they couldn't hold a lock on it. You know, kind of like what happens when things turn invisible.
He's not complaining about people cloaking in the presence of imminent missile hits (how often would that happen, given that you can't cloak if you're targeted anyway?).
He's asking why your missiles veer off course and lose target if you cloak / lose lock (do they in fact veer off if you just lose lock / are jammed?).
@OP: Don't know, but consider what you could do in hisec with stealth bombers if you could uncloak, launch a volley, and cloak. Even if concord spawns as soon as you fire the launchers I'm willing to bet that you can be faster on the cloak, and I think you don't get CONCORD aggro until the missiles actually hit anyway.
Basically you could use stealth bombers to shoot whoever you want in hisec without getting concord'd (although you would be unable to decloak for any respectable length of time until you don't have the GCC anymore).
EDIT: If they hit even after you warped.... you could fire a volley of torps or something, while aligned, and then instantly warp to a far-away station (if there is one) and dock, since you may be able to wear off the docking aggression timer while in warp.
Can't cloak in highsec while you have a global crim countdown, which starts as soon as you launch the missiles.
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Darkwolf
Caldari The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.08.06 05:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Not really. If you think about it, would you rather have less lag or that kill you may not get a killmail for because you cloaked/warped away?
I'd rather the person I shot at die than have my missiles vanish, killmail or no killmail.
I don't blow up other ships for killmails. I blow them up so they're dead.
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Oreo Mon
Caldari Azylum
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Napro Edited by: Napro on 06/08/2008 02:48:43 Why is this ******ed rule in effect?
What difference should it make whether or not a ship is locked to make the missiles do damage? Why do I have to watch them hit the enemy ship and leave myself vulnerable to turrets that hit instantly?
Any turret ship can uncloak, fire a volley with their turrets, and warp away within a few seconds... but I have to watch my missiles sail slowly towards the other ship... and I'll probably get vaporized before they get there by turrets.
So is this a server limitation or was this rule intended for some reason?
I think the real problem is : Why are they called Guıded Missiles? Where is the guıdence? Should the missiles get locked by them-selves? Torps and rockets are not considered guided missles. So why dont they have a possibility of missing the target?
I am guessing there is lots of balance issues with the missiles section in EVE that leaves this mechanism look like unfinished! Riding the missile! |
John Bishop
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.06 07:04:00 -
[19]
perhaps missiles should just have a chance for a ballistic hit if targeting is lost, i mean lets say missiles is on target it will use the ships powerful ai and tactical computer to keep a solution on the target.
but if ship warps away or looses targeting data the missile falls back on a very crude guidance system, perhaps it should have a 10% chance of hitting its target with the chance going up the closer the missle is to its target from 10% to 80%.
missile a is 5 k from target when it looses its targeting data based on its range it has 70% hitting its target on its ballistic course, but missile b being 50 k from target has only 10% chance due to it being so far from its target making a hit possible but unlikely.
but to be honest i think missles just need to be faster and maybey 5-10% more damage than they are now
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Originally by: Rodj Blake Large Beam Spec 5 is a really good skill to have, because it almost puts you on a par with people using T1 projectiles. [:lol: |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.08.06 07:36:00 -
[20]
I think it would open up a lot of abuse, if missiles still hit while you are cloaked/warped away (Theroycrafting here).
Take a POS. Can a Raven manage to lock onto a POS structure, launch a volly of torps and warp out again (provided you got a warp out point in line with your warp in point, so you don't have to turn around) before the POS can lock/damage the Raven?
Or take Stealth Bombers. They could drop a bubble on a gate and kill anything without much danger to them selves. Uncloak, lock, fire and then cloak again. Add in a damp to make sure the long-range enemies lose lock and you're pretty set.
Compared to turrets, they can't do damage when they are cloaked or warped away either. But, to be honest, I think it could be cool if you could make bomb runs like that, just have to make sure it's balanced and that's where I fear it's not. Otherwise, drones should keep shooting while you are warped away. Easy way to secure a gate really. Put up 25 Sentry drones and bubble, and you're pretty sure anything small won't make it through .
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:35:00 -
[21]
Yeah man, Torps should totally fly at 20,000m/s just so we can hit those damn snipers 200km away before they move off.
Also make T1 Cruise launchers fire every 1.5 seconds, and T2 Cruise launchers every 0.5 seconds.
With a T2 BCU fitted we should see firing times of 0.25 seconds. Sure, you'd expend your ammo pretty quick but hey, we'll be rolling with Autocannons then!
That should bring us missile users up to speed with how goddamn powerful those turret users are.. with their frickin' Transversal Velocity, Optimal Range and Tracking Speeds...
</sarcasm>
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Gobi Mettle
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Posted - 2008.08.06 10:40:00 -
[22]
I don't know about warping off, but you can cloak the ship once a cruise missile is within 30km of the target and they will hit, it's a time to impact thing rather than actual distance so skills and missile type will affect the range needed before cloaking.
If you fire from within that 30km you can cloak instantly and still score hits.
Gobi Mettle <- Dedicated Hound pilot
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Savage Roar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Napro So is this a server limitation or was this rule intended for some reason?
Missiles donŠt have warp drives, therefore they cannot hit ships which are warping away from you. Missiles canŠt see cloaked ships either. Either way, it makes sense.
Also, yes, I have intentionally misunderstood your post. HereŠs looking at it from the other side:
Missiles donŠt have integrated guidance systems. Warping away means you cant tell them where to go, and cloaking also, as your ship doesnŠt emit any signals.
And no, I havenŠt edited this post, I really did intentionally misunderstand you from the outset, because IŠm in Spain atm and the heat is getting to my head.
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Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Savage Roar
Originally by: Napro So is this a server limitation or was this rule intended for some reason?
Missiles donŠt have warp drives, therefore they cannot hit ships which are warping away from you. Missiles canŠt see cloaked ships either. Either way, it makes sense.
Also, yes, I have intentionally misunderstood your post. HereŠs looking at it from the other side:
Missiles donŠt have integrated guidance systems. Warping away means you cant tell them where to go, and cloaking also, as your ship doesnŠt emit any signals.
And no, I havenŠt edited this post, I really did intentionally misunderstand you from the outset, because IŠm in Spain atm and the heat is getting to my head.
There are guided missiles in EVE.
Besides, why should warping off suddenly turn missiles into flying ******s? They should carry on flying in the direction they were when you warped, they just can't turn due to a lack of targeting data from your ship.
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Crae Matreki
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Crae Matreki on 06/08/2008 11:53:03 Entering warp = no longer in the same 'dimension' as the missile. You can fly through suns and planets, so a missile's not going to be much of a worry!
Cloaking = missile can no longer find a target.
In both cases I would assume the missile is programmed to detonate where it last calculated the target to be, hence the explosion.
edit: do they still explode? I haven't seen it happen in ages, so I can't remember.
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Hazzard
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:40:00 -
[26]
If you go out in a stealth bomber and shoot at a target and cloak before the missles hit they just disappear.
Not sure why, I can think of no good reason unless this was too easy to uncloak-shoot-cloak then rinse repeat.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:47:00 -
[27]
The fact that you have to stay uncloaked for missiles to hit is why I have never bothered with stealth bombers.
Coolest addition to the game at the time, with everything cool about them removed. -
DesuSigs |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:08:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 06/08/2008 16:09:27 Because your agression timer doesn't start until the missiles hit. Turrets hit instantly and so their agression timer is on right away. It would be fairly annoying to get popped by a dozen stealth bombers that are invisible at the moment they agress you. Sure in practice most people operate NBSI, but there's supposed to be an option to return fire available.
If you want an RP reason say the ship is providing the guidance for the missiles and needs to keep the target locked to guide them there.
Yes, it is a little annoying, but the time taken to hit is one of the disadvantages of missiles they have a heap of other advantages to make up for it though.
You're going to have to get closer, or increase the lock time your target has on you (damps etc). Stealth bombers have alot of firepower for a small ship, so they have drawbacks too. (and yes cloaking if someone doesn't have a lock on you will break their attempt at locking, at which point you could uncloak and fire again, and recloak etc, never being lockable). Which would be pretty expoitable.
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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 23:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 06/08/2008 16:09:27 Because your agression timer doesn't start until the missiles hit. Turrets hit instantly and so their agression timer is on right away. It would be fairly annoying to get popped by a dozen stealth bombers that are invisible at the moment they agress you. Sure in practice most people operate NBSI, but there's supposed to be an option to return fire available.
If you want an RP reason say the ship is providing the guidance for the missiles and needs to keep the target locked to guide them there.
Yes, it is a little annoying, but the time taken to hit is one of the disadvantages of missiles they have a heap of other advantages to make up for it though.
You're going to have to get closer, or increase the lock time your target has on you (damps etc). Stealth bombers have alot of firepower for a small ship, so they have drawbacks too. (and yes cloaking if someone doesn't have a lock on you will break their attempt at locking, at which point you could uncloak and fire again, and recloak etc, never being lockable). Which would be pretty expoitable.
That's a weak excuse. It can easily be made that aggro timer starts as soon as u fire something. And there is a reactivation delay for cloaking
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