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cucac
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:50:00 -
[1]
There are 2 things that i don't like about eve.
1-After while, game in most of cases gets on track of just waiting weeks for skills to be trained (which needs no effort from player, players often goes to nonpaid mode, just to wait for skill to be trained without paying, because they have nothing to do) and to ISK hunting to cover their pvp or other expences, which will be absolutely gone after ships loss or so.
So i propose to add something similar like lvls in other rpgs. There are endless possibilities what could higher lvl bring you. ( it could be new skills, maybe upgrades or lvl6 to current skills or something else ) I am sure people will come around with something nice ( lvls should be only secondary to normal skills ). The thought is to give player something to work on, on dayly basis. Even if he lost ship after a while, he would know that his pvp effort, mission running ratting ... has brought him something, not a "start from 0".
2-I miss that item collecting as in another games, where someone work really hard to get some item, but after that, he have it, he can use it forever and his char is stronger with it. In eve even if someone gets a rare item, he won't take it on regular walk throught space, because he is afraid of losing it. Char with this item won't be "stronger" on dayly basis, only if he is really willing to risk losing it. So regular pvp is with cheap modules, easy replacabe, where everyone have the same ones and only difference in strenght is more years ingame. ( in other games, ppl could say, oh it's JOHN3245 with mighty hammer of xyz:P, fear him... ) Dunno how exactly sort this "problem"
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Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:13:00 -
[2]
I like the lack of levels. I like the absence of Golden Thong of Ultimate Destruction. I like that special items only give a small edge and can be lost.
If I didn't, I'd go play one of the 54615 classic mmos out there.
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Cavy Dan
Gallente Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:14:00 -
[3]
1. No, it's what makes Eve unique. No levels, just training.
2. I don't see the problem with this. If you want to use something expensive, then you have to accept the risks that go along with it. And it would break the market if items were "invulnerable". ----------------------------------------------- My Band's new Demo: Linkage to Site |
cucac
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:52:00 -
[4]
The idea wa to give ppl something towork for in everyday game. Not stykle like 2 days farming for ship, 3 day it is destroyed, nothing gained, 2 days wasted.
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Blancanieves
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:57:00 -
[5]
Didn't CCP change that suspended (unpaid) accounts still continue training? I.e., are those accounts still training? I thought not, but don't know for sure. -
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.08.06 13:10:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 06/08/2008 13:10:33 1) Levels are a horrible idea... because of the play style. Real people don't have a "Level" floating over their heads. Two characters could be made at the exact same time, both training for a year straight. But they won't perform the same, because of skill training choices. While other games would have you believe that a "Level 70" versus another "Level 70" are an even match... a year old Miner won't fair too well against a year old PvP'er. As for the payoff from actively participating with your character... it's called ISK.
2) The market is based on supply and DEMAND. If items were invincible, then no one would buy anything a second time. However, it's all too easy to lose a billion ISK ship in a fight. Biggest difference between Eve and WoW is that you don't ghost run back to your wreck and have it instantly reassemble to mint condition.
--- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Asulox
Caldari Faction Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.08.06 14:00:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Asulox on 06/08/2008 14:01:07 EVE stands out amongst the crowd with its skill system, and its attractive to people like me who dont have endless grind time to ping the next level.I can take a month off and return, still capable of contributing something to my friends. Classic mmorpg's demand you keep pace with your buddies or become a useless appendage on missions. The price I pay for time off in EVE is I dont make much isk and i miss out on the fun, but it doesnt mean I cant jump back in when I can.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.08.06 14:25:00 -
[8]
Heck these are the two core features I still play eve after 4 years (with the occasional break). They are also marking eve as a mmorpg that stands on its own and don't look to others. So to both thing a big NO.
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cucac
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Posted - 2008.08.06 14:34:00 -
[9]
I was thinking something like if you gain xy xp, you can add another 1% to your large hybrid if you have trained it to lvl 5. Only some addition to current skills
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2008.08.06 14:38:00 -
[10]
The internet does not need another WoW clone where people power level to get that next inch of ****.
Because introducing levels is what will lead this game to being. |
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: cucac I was thinking something like if you gain xy xp, you can add another 1% to your large hybrid if you have trained it to lvl 5. Only some addition to current skills
Just get your isk together and by that faction hybrid gun and ammo. Then you even got more then 1% increase. And if you got enough, bring it to pvp to get it popped so you have to get more isk to spend it on new modules. So nope no levels needed.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Originally by: cucac I was thinking something like if you gain xy xp, you can add another 1% to your large hybrid if you have trained it to lvl 5. Only some addition to current skills
Just get your isk together and by that faction hybrid gun and ammo. Then you even got more then 1% increase. And if you got enough, bring it to pvp to get it popped so you have to get more isk to spend it on new modules. So nope no levels needed.
Yeah, in EVE you don't grind XP for extra damage/hp/speed/xyz, you grind ISK to buy the modules that grant extra damage/hp/speed/xyz. -----------
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Kethry Avenger
Krell-Korp
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Posted - 2008.08.06 18:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: cucac There are 2 things that i don't like about eve. Small wall of text from someone who likes WOW.
1. If you can't figure out how to entertain yourself in eve while waiting on skills your doing something wrong. Eve doesn't need any levels.
2. If you actually played the game while waiting for skills to train you can make enough money to play and risk your expensive items. And if you want more of them get a couple hundred of your most trusted friends and go take over the space where they come from. Don't have a couple hundred friends, then that is what you should be doing in eve, making them.
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ShadowDraqon
Awesome Industries Group
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Posted - 2008.08.06 18:54:00 -
[14]
EVE =/= WoW in space
Maybe you're playing the wrong game?
<3 the risks, <3 the realism, <3 EVE ____________________ I had a sig here, but I NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM nommed it... |
Plekto
CCITT
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Posted - 2008.08.06 18:56:00 -
[15]
Not WoW. Not DAOC. Not EverQuest Not Diablo II Not FLYFF Not Anarchy Online Not... (see a pattern?)
Thank god EVE isn't like those wastes of time.
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Ethaet
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.06 19:02:00 -
[16]
inbefore GB2WOW -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Taladool
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ethaet inbefore GB2WOW
OH OH ILL POST IT FOR YOU, ILL DO IT
GB2WOW NOOB!!!
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2008.08.06 22:18:00 -
[18]
more or less he is right
it would be neat to have some kind of player experience factor as addition
like: someone using his mwd on daily base gets +5% efficiency. but due to the fact that he did not longer use his ab, his old ab +5% was reduced to 0%.
So something like minimal rebalancing depending on the current usage level.
makes sence on a logic point of view, but it adds complexity, leads to performance issues and might end in a balancing nightmare.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.08.06 22:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Quoting myself from a previous incarnation of this exact same thread.
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
What skill do you want to increase by performing what act?
If you are in a 1 on 1 dogfight, blasting each other until one of you is limping home in a pod while the other loots/salvages the wreck...
You are using ship pilot skills, which could encompass several types of ships when you see that T2 craft take several levels of several ships to use. Then you're using your chosen weapons, whether they're turrets, missiles, drones, etc. Each one of those weapons has a set of sub-skills that are affecting the effectiveness of the weapon. Then you're using various modules onboard, which all have their own associated skills for use. AND THEN you have your shields, armor, and hull wearing away during the fight... which do have skills that influence shield recharge and overall armor HP and so forth...
Do you all see why you can't just have XP and call it good? What rate are you hoping to accumulate your "active SP", and where to they go. If you gain ship related skills anytime you move, then those will max out before anything else. If you gain weapons skills, then I'll just shoot asteroids until they max too. Shields and armor would only require me to setup a permatank, and let a 0.9 rat pound away at me for a while.
The vast variety of skills and applications in Eve makes it virtually impossible to have a fair and balanced distribution of "active SP" unless they do what they are doing right now.
When you select a skill, you aren't "downloading" it like the Matrix. You are in fact reviewing the textbook you bought, and probably doing more research in the Eve version of Google. You're participating in "interstellar correspondence courses". And that's where your "active" training applies. You are always actively learning some aspect of the game.
No matter how much people hope for grinding XP, it will not balance out. Rookies start out with a fair amount of SP depending on what "class" and "spec" they chose. It is up to the player to find a way to make it out there. CCP has never given the impression they intend to hold your hand once you finish the Tutorials. As soon as you leave that first station, you're on your own to find your way in the universe.
--- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Re'taka
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.08.07 01:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kel Nissa more or less he is right
it would be neat to have some kind of player experience factor as addition
like: someone using his mwd on daily base gets +5% efficiency. but due to the fact that he did not longer use his ab, his old ab +5% was reduced to 0%.
So something like minimal rebalancing depending on the current usage level.
makes sence on a logic point of view, but it adds complexity, leads to performance issues and might end in a balancing nightmare.
I disagree there are already tons of stat modifiers, like this, in the forum of implants, ship bonus, skills etc, in the end this will just make balance harder for ccp, aside from that I don't think I ever want to see a case of i spent 3 hrs shooting a roid so my guns would get a 5% bonus. thats just silly and doesn't mix well with eve's skill based system.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.07 10:09:00 -
[21]
Part of the great appeal of EVE is that it has a skill system that is independent of your time spent in the game, and yet takes a long time forcing you to make choices in what you do. EVE is also a sandbox, meaning there is no endgame, there is no ultimate level, there is no be-all-and-end-all. You can spend your life in high-sec, you can spend it all in 0.0, it doesn't matter, the only issue is whether you have fun doing what you do.
The other part of the appeal of EVE is that no matter what you have acquired, you can lose it all, particularly if you take stupid risks. Unlike other games there is some notion of death penalty.
So, no, lets' not have levels or items that can't be removed from your 'inventory'.
You also missed that actually contrary to what some would like you to believe, years in game has little to do with PvP ability. Your player skill and ability to think determines your ability in PvP - skillpoints are merely that extra tip of the iceberg that might nudge you over in a close fight. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.08.07 11:59:00 -
[22]
There is experience levels you can grind in EVE... Difference is it is _you_ that make the difference, not some numbers in a database half-way across the world.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:40:00 -
[23]
"Classic" is the wrong word here.
Yes there are a whole pile of D&D derived fantasy MMORPGs going around right now, but none of them are all that old and all they have done is bring one particular class of MUD to the masses.
EvE pulls from a differnt classical model, but it is still a model that predates even UO or EQ by many years.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:55:00 -
[24]
For all of the reasons already mentioned, a big no to both suggestions in the OP.
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Axle skye
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Posted - 2008.08.07 19:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kel Nissa more or less he is right
it would be neat to have some kind of player experience factor as addition
like: someone using his mwd on daily base gets +5% efficiency. but due to the fact that he did not longer use his ab, his old ab +5% was reduced to 0%.
So something like minimal rebalancing depending on the current usage level.
makes sence on a logic point of view, but it adds complexity, leads to performance issues and might end in a balancing nightmare.
pre-castor we had this. you got a tiny ammount of sp's for "using' modules. what did people do.... Slapped AB/MWD/Armor Repper/ Shield booster on. Turn in on point your ship towards the sun and come back in a few hours. They took it out for a reason. To the OP: As for lvls. to me, the great thing about EVE is you have no idea who or what you are up against. example: Axle Skye's birthdate is sometime in Nov'2003, am i a miner? Industiralist? Hellbent PVPer? 1,000,000 sp ancient alt? 57,000,000 demi-god? Baru Pel, is a couple of years old. 800k sps? 12mil sps? flying a vexor. what am I?
As for 'epic' loot? meh, I have a fully dread gurista worm fit that i fly on occasion. I also have a fully cosmos fit Gila that i use for mission running on occasion. Have you ever seen a Gila is space? I am currently working on building a fully Navy fit hookbill. to be those are way better than the "Golden Thong of Desruction" type mods. This post was made with entirely recycled electrons |
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