I do think that unfitting your crap in an Orca is kind of dodgy, but personally I'm of the opinion that using an Orca's services (docking, fitting, etc) should be allowed, but it also should result in the Orca incurring GCC. Same for carriers that pull the same shenanigans in low sec. It would make sense: help a criminal get on with their crime-doing and you become one by extension.

Evading Concord is dodgy business. The GMs will make the call on whether this is an exploit or not, until then I'm locking the thread.

So I'm wondering if this is really wise of me to post this, but since this thread has been a gray area right from the start and so far no consequences levied, I'll come right out and say this.

I went on the test server last night, in a 0.5 sec system, fired at a target provoking GCC, and proceeded to warp around the system for the entire remainder of the GCC until it ran out, at which point CONCORD stopped pursuing me and I could jump out of system or safely stay in one point without being destroyed.

I didn't try this on the main server however unless there's some difference between the main server and the test server regarding GCC and CONCORD (and there's no reason to believe there is) then this is just as possible on there.

If it is an exploit, we're just one step closer to WOW in space.

I really hope CCP change their cearbear direction. If not, I'll have to re-think my yearly subscription.

Yes. Evading CONCORD has never been an exploit. I too will rage and act surprised when CCP deems this an exploit.

Because you seem a bit slow:

Gank, ship no go boom = Concord evasion

Gank, warp away, but ship still get caught and go boom <> Concord evasion.

It's not an exploit because tornadoes can be prevented from warping by fitting a warp disruptor on hulks/mackinaws/orcas. Miners should just mine in tight packs.

Because you seem a bit daft:

Gank, warp away, gank, warp away, gank, warp away = CONCORD evasion.

Hell, you could let GCC count down without ever getting caught. But sure, we can both act surprised when we find out together that evading CONCORD is considered exploit for the very first time in Eve's history.

Further I don't believe that warping for 15 minutes it is even possible since recent stealth-buffs to Concord.

As far as i'm informed about the policy of 'evading concord'

The question isn't 'Can you warp for long enough in Tornado during GCC that it wears off?', because a) it should be possibile and is known to be possible in other hulls, and b) it's an exploit.

The question is: IS IT AN EXPLOIT, IF YOU WARP WITH YOUR TORNADO DURING GANKING AND THEN, LATER IN THE PROCESS OF GANKING, WITHIN THE SAME GCC LOSE IT?


** snip **

I don't have a source right now, but i think i remember a statement, that cleary said: You can warp off, and unless your ship gets destroyed, it's totally okay. It hasn't to be destroyed at the same location where the crime has been comitted.

I'll just say that the OP of the tornado thread is not using a 50x more expensive ship, so don't get over yourself. Keep it civil. Its just a few extra mil at most (and defenetly not 50x) to be able to warp and gank someone else.

Exploit or not, the best way to fix it, is to not allow a ganking ship to be able to warp out. He can do what ever he wants, shoot another one, but only in the same area. No warping out. Easy fix really. That way no exploit possible, ship will 100% blowup.
On trying to warp out get a "Your actions have made your warp drive melfunction. Concord are coming to fix it for you, please hold, have a nice day".

Exploit or not, the best way to fix it, is to not allow a ganking ship to be able to warp out. He can do what ever he wants, shoot another one, but only in the same area. No warping out. Easy fix really. That way no exploit possible, ship will 100% blowup.
On trying to warp out get a "Your actions have made your warp drive melfunction. Concord are coming to fix it for you, please hold, have a nice day".

When they locked the Boomerang thread, it made me so mad I killed:

24 Mackinaws
5 Hulks
14 Pods.

In one evening.

Nice job CCP Guard! Now those stupid miners will have to toil to replace approximately 5.5 Billion ISK in assets.
I've already notified them that it was your fault, and they can forward their complaints to you.

If the GMs are so overburdened that they shed all rules concerning wardec exploits, then they certainly don't have time to be enforcing new rules on this. They shouldn't be selectively controlling exploits based on its impact on the carebears.

this is the most pathetic bear response i have ever read.
please DO fit warp disruptors , it will just ensure you have less tank and easier to kill.

Sooner or later, the Concord will pin him down and grease-spot him. Until then, let him bounce around the system like a flea on a hot skillet.

I never did a suicide kill in my Eve life, and avoid PVP (because I can't survive - check the Kbs), and I don't think it's an exploit.

Look, to be honest, this is the only game with consequences that matter. I can do WOW PVP all day, though I stopped playing in 2007, rack up honor points or whatever they were called, and not lose a thing except arrows (beast spec Hunter FTW).

Eve is still a game, but a hard game, and I pay for that game and like it like that even when I lose and get cheesed over that. Whereas I don't expect to go mining with an empty rack of midslots, and I would be first in line to point out some mechanics that favor bubble and blobs camps that should change, further nerfing do suicide attacks at this point is going to go too far.

We have a world that is full of people who think in terms of "it will never happen to me". They do that in RL. Because they think "it" will never happen to them, they actually facilitate a lot of problems in this world. If I could get everybody in the world to play this game and get suicided it just might, even for a moment, generate a neural pathway that is counter to this "never happen to me" BS and finally wake them out of their sleepwalking.

I am a lone wolf in this game. I spend more time running, and anything other than running means losing. But even I don't want to see this game made easier.

The day will come when someone will see my pimped drake pull up on station in structure and pop it, and I just about expect that to happen every time, just like I worry when taking a long trip without tools, or doing a security job without a backup gun - this game is where I practice the mindset that helps me in RL. Please don't let this game change.

Except as I've stated repeatedly, it's possible to bounce around system for 15 minutes until the GCC runs out, at which point I'm perfectly safe - I can dock up, leave system, or just sit there - and CONCORD won't follow me or fire on my ship.

I've noticed that a lot of posts have said similar to what you've said. What I've shown to be possible is also considered by many to be an exploit. Now that you agree that it's an exploit, do you believe game mechanics should be changed to make this impossible?

Warping out after a gank allows your -10 character to avoid nasty, one-sided fights with other players while Concord holds you down and renders you helpless for 10-15 seconds. Until a few days ago, you could eject from a doomed ship before you are Concorded which allowed a pirate to make his escape, ahead of outlaw podding opportunists. Not anymore. So if anything, warping off is even MORE vital. Further, it also allows you to recover your own mods at a Safe-spot, Orca or no, rather than in the middle of a throng of pissed off carebears (and associated opportunists).

I have to admit but even the 15minute evasion till Concord stops chasing you shouldn't be considered an exploit.

The way I see it is like in real life, somebody does something bad, he runs from the cops before they get there, they chase him arround but he is fast, he eventually gets away.

A way this could be possibly mended is the higher negative sec status you are, then that increases the multiplier that determins the concord response time. The worse you are the faster they show. (never an immediate response, but it could make hisec even more risky but still fun). This may sound like a punishment of the pirates, but I am saying mix this with the official response that this is not an exploit so while it will take some major skill to survive the full 15min, if you do then you would be one of the Elite lol.

Except as I've stated repeatedly, it's possible to bounce around system for 15 minutes until the GCC runs out, at which point I'm perfectly safe - I can dock up, leave system, or just sit there - and CONCORD won't follow me or fire on my ship.

I've noticed that a lot of posts have said similar to what you've said. What I've shown to be possible is also considered by many to be an exploit. Now that you agree that it's an exploit, do you believe game mechanics should be changed to make this impossible?

^THIS^

But in the same time you can just bump from belt to belt killing Hulks / Macs and finally warp to safe spot to your alt who will be sitting there in POD, hit eject and quickly enter with your alt to your precious Tornado saving the ship from Concordokken.

Is this will be an exploit?
Hell yes, but as far as no one knows - there will be no petition and no Banhammer in use.

Ganking needs to be revisited by CCP for sure. For me if you can save your ship from Concord you should do it and it shouldn't be an exploit if you only use game mechanic.
Exploits simply shouldn't be possible to do without hacking the game.

Oh, and whoever says that if something is not supposed to be doable, then they should change the code so it is not doable anymore, you should be aware that in something so multi-layered i think the game code is after however many years eve has been successfully running, the law of unintended consequences is bound to apply.

If this were deemed an exploit I could have easily done it without knowing it were. The consequence of this of course is a ban. Why should I get banned for something game mechanics allow me to do? Doesn't make sense.

Warping out after a gank allows your -10 character to avoid nasty, one-sided fights with other players while Concord holds you down and renders you helpless for 10-15 seconds. Until a few days ago, you could eject from a doomed ship before you are Concorded which allowed a pirate to make his escape, ahead of outlaw podding opportunists. Not anymore. So if anything, warping off is even MORE vital. Further, it also allows you to recover your own mods at a Safe-spot, Orca or no, rather than in the middle of a throng of pissed off carebears (and associated opportunists).

I really hope CCP change their cearbear direction. If not, I'll have to re-think my yearly subscription.

Last time I checked the majority of the player base lives in 0.5-1.0.

You are saying that its not fair to be shot at by someone and having a one-sided fight, but warping in, alpha killing someone one-sided and warping out is fair?

On the irony! I'm drowning in ganker tears

Sorry mate, but that is the most stupid excuse I have read on this thread so far.

You are scared that someone will take your wreck or the gank ship's wreck? No one has every promised that you can recover your items. That is the reason why the ships are not insureable anymore.
You gank someone, you lose your ship, an orca with a tractor beam can steal your loot and salvage your wreck. C'est la vie.
No one promised your roses and gift cards for ganking someone in high sec. Its a risky business being a douchbag.

I said nothing about 'fair'. I'm describing why 'warping out' after a Tornado gank is a perfectly rational thing to do.
Last I checked, it is still perfectly legal, so, your claims of finding 'ganker tears' only make you look particularly unintelligent.

I was just shooting down a stupid reactive carebear idea. "LOL, I know! Make it so they cannot warp out after a gank! That will fix it!" When really, there is nothing here to fix....

It might surprise a bonehead like yourself, but given a choice, I'd prefer to warp off! Its better than having to sit there locked down by Concord for 15 seconds, while an interceptor closes in to snag my pod. Because I prefer not to be podded.

Another news flash: I also prefer to be able to keep my mods, rather than let a random Orca or frigate steal them from me. Not really 'scared' of it as you claim. At this moment, I've got somewhere between 110 and 120 T2 Tornados fit and ready to gank in 5 different ice systems. I don't even count the T2 Catalysts.

But I'd rather not allow carebears to be able to rationalize "Well, we lost two Mackinaws and a Hulk, but at least we got to take his T2 Howitzers and Gyrostabs!"

If the bother fitting a point to keep you pinned long enough to be concorded.

This is reasonable. Could you post your complete pod fit?

I said nothing about 'fair'. I'm describing why 'warping out' after a Tornado gank is a perfectly rational thing to do.
Last I checked, it is still perfectly legal, so, your claims of finding 'ganker tears' only make you look particularly unintelligent.

It might surprise a bonehead like yourself, but given a choice, I'd prefer to warp off! Its better than having to sit there locked down by Concord for 15 seconds, while an interceptor closes in to snag my pod. Because I prefer not to be podded.

Ganking someone who can not fight back is perfectly rational, but catching you is not? Next thing you will demand -10 pilots to be not targetable because it "nasty".
Sorry mate, cry me a river. As I said, ganking has its risks. If you want to avoid all the risks, that can be considered an exploit.



It might surprice an empty headed like you, but I'm not sure all the ganked miners are happy and prefer to have their ships blown or being podded as well

So boo hoo. If CCP decide to change the warp away, I will be happy.
I'm not against ganking, and you can kill all the botters and hulks you want.

But all the profit zero the risk?
Sorry, I don't see ganking being that. gank = risky. You can't handle the risk, don't gank.

Ganking someone who can not fight back is perfectly rational, but catching you is not? Next thing you will demand -10 pilots to be not targetable because it "nasty".
Sorry mate, cry me a river. As I said, ganking has its risks. If you want to avoid all the risks, that can be considered an exploit.



It might surprice an empty headed like you, but I'm not sure all the ganked miners are happy and prefer to have their ships blown or being podded as well

So boo hoo. If CCP decide to change the warp away, I will be happy.
I'm not against ganking, and you can kill all the botters and hulks you want.

But all the profit zero the risk?
Sorry, I don't see ganking being that. gank = risky. You can't handle the risk, don't gank.

I was trying to move into null tonight during off hours. Took my Anathema to scout everything out and saw 5-6 bubbles up with cargo containers all over. That was only going 2 jumps deep. It just isn't worth the pain in the ass that it is to move around to get into an unoccupied area in nullsec.

Presenting my latest wall of text on this subject:

http://stinkinguplocal.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/can-we-get-some-consistency-please/

Summary: We have too many GM-enforced rules already, don't play favorites, and I weighed in on what kind of fixes make sense to ensure no exploiting is done.

You are using a 50M ISK hull - - its got to be able to do something that a 1 Million ISK Catalyst cannot.

Presenting my latest wall of text on this subject:

http://stinkinguplocal.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/can-we-get-some-consistency-please/

Summary: We have too many GM-enforced rules already, don't play favorites, and I weighed in on what kind of fixes make sense to ensure no exploiting is done.

The GM's are forced to place rules on certain aspects because of the complete and utter asshattery that you guys come up with to grief people who try to opt out of PvP or just don't want to deal with the hassles of getting into low/null.

While I could care less if you suicide AFK farmers (and I wish there were more killing done) you guys end up targeting people who are trying to opt out of PvP by staying in high sec.

This is EVE. You can't "opt-out" of PVP in this game, and trying is futile. You can reduce your chances of encountering it by not being an idiot, but you cannot opt-out anymore than you can opt-out of being a victim of crime IRL. I really hope I run into you sometime so that I can give you some very unconsensual pvp to drive the point home.

Edited to add: You sound mad. U mad bro?

This is EVE. You can't "opt-out" of PVP in this game, and trying is futile. You can reduce your chances of encountering it by not being an idiot, but you cannot opt-out anymore than you can opt-out of being a victim of crime IRL. I really hope I run into you sometime so that I can give you some very unconsensual pvp to drive the point home.

Edited to add: You sound mad. U mad bro?

Not mad at all, but by your "I'm a hard ass" attitude you fall into the "let's 10 v 1 a person and then talk ****" category.



Edit: and from looking at your kill board I am exactly correct. Your only solo kills are against haulers. GG.

I see that you didn't bother looking at related kills. In many instances I was blobbed when I went in solo and as such my alliance counter blobbed. You should really take more time to do research before you open your pie hole.

Also, it's not my fault when my corpmates want to ***** in on killmails, or when I ***** in on there's. We are almost always in a fleet and they can warp-in on me at any time. You'll probably also see where some people where on the killmail but little to no damage in comparison to what I did...which means I was there for awhile before they arrived on-grid.

Ohhh Tommy Toughnuts, you truly are the best!

stuff

While I could care less if you suicide AFK farmers (and I wish there were more killing done) you guys end up targeting people who are trying to opt out of PvP by staying in high sec.

On TQ:
Ganked a covetor in 0.5 in an oracle, warped around until 15 minute GCC ran out, left system
Re-entered system, concord didn't pursue or attack.

Carebear: -1 Covetor
Me: No loss
Exploit? TBD I suppose.

Yes. Its an exploit because you didn't lose your ship. Thought we went over this already.

Seems other people differ on this.

Furthermore: again, if it's an exploit, why am I able to do it? I shouldn't be able to do it if it's considered an exploit.

It's not even like I used a bug or some hidden game mechanics that few people know about. If what I did is an exploit then that needs to be both clarified and changed so I can't do it. It would be quite easy to do, literally take maybe a minute of dev time.

There is no room to differ. CCP has clearly stated that failing to die after incurring CONCORD wrath is an immediately bannable offense. The question is whether its legit to delay that wrath to get a few more ganks in.

Real question, CCP. Why are highsec players so dumb they think that an exploit isn't possible?

Mine is the logical extent of the exact same thing you're doing. I never incurred their wrath either, merely delayed it indefinitely.


Why shouldn't something bannable in game be changed to make it impossible to do in the first place?

CCP doesn't want players doing A
Players do A because the game lets them, knowing (or not) that it's a bannable offense
CCP bans players doing A

alternatively:

CCP doesn't want players doing A
CCP makes simple change to prevent A being possible
Players don't do A or get banned

If you want a verdict, don't ask here, file a petition. I have it on record in a different thread that the GM staff would rather answer your question about its legality in advance than have to do all the work of proving you are exploiting(pulling logs, watching you do it, etc).

They can, and usually do alter the game to make it impossible.

General rule, an exploit is a possibility they had figured was impossible(CCP is good at this) or a bug(afaik, intended CONCORD functionality is to chase you til you die, 15 min or not).

In the first case, its actually legit til CCP says otherwise(They have already stated that coming up with a way to survive concord is an exploit, very broadly) and in the second case, abusing a bug is a bannable offense.

If you found a way to survive concord, you can do it once on TQ as a proof of concept, and if you don't file a exploit report once you prove it(it has its own petition category) you can be banned. If its a bug, same story.

Any other exploit, report it and you can keep doing it til a GM tells you no, but surviving CONCORD is a flat ban, period, if you abuse it.

Is that clear?

Edit: your second example is ********. Thats like saying you can die from making your computer levitate through hamster power. If the devs make it impossible, you can't get banned for it because its can't be done.

Again I will reiterate what I said in my previous post. YOU ARE THE MINORITY. Yes, you null secers, you pirates, you griefers. You are the smallest portion of the Eve Online population. The reason you are the minority is your own fault. You blockade nullsec and hide behind bubble camps to keep anyone out. Sitting hours on end waiting for a single target so you can 10 v 1 them, and act like hardasses because of it.

The GM's are forced to place rules on certain aspects because of the complete and utter asshattery that you guys come up with to grief people who try to opt out of PvP or just don't want to deal with the hassles of getting into low/null.

While I could care less if you suicide AFK farmers (and I wish there were more killing done) you guys end up targeting people who are trying to opt out of PvP by staying in high sec.

This is the perfect place to ask for a ruling, its an issue that affects more than just me and it doesn't create thousands of petitions asking the same thing. Try again.

However, evading concord for a short time is not an exploit.

Is this known to be true?

GMs are not allowed to come to the forums without getting a ton of permission. Its not worth the time, but they have to answer the petitions, and if its an exploit, it only takes one or 2 petitions to get it added to the list of known exploits(and in short order patched out of existence).

The forums, on the other hand, don't guarantee they will notice(tho keeping it toward the top of the page will help til it get locks for discussing potential exploits)

Is this known to be true?

If so, what is considered a "short time"?

That's still open to interpretation, since a GCC can be increased by simply committing another crime. So "short time" could mean 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, or longer even. Or it could mean five minutes. Or, evading Concord at any time after committing a crime could be considered an exploit.

CCPs new carebear friendly stance may have changed this, which is why I am slightly non-committal on it

I think this is awesome. Makes ganking (effectively) a lot of work, with a big payoff potentially.

CCP Greyscale
Nope, not intended as a change to suicide ganking at all. Any CONCORD replacement will keep the same time interval as current CONCORD spawns. We're kicking around the idea of deploying an instant warp-scrambler to prevent warping-around shenanigans, but we don't have any plans to alter the DPS delay right now.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=984080#post984080

This thread is yet more proof that this game is more about bullying than anything else. Suicide ganking is not pvp, it's fake pvp.

Solo mining was one of the only ways a casual player could enjoy this game. Getting killed while solo mining has driven a lot of people out of my main's corp. Hardly anybody logs on when we get a war dec, and, increasingly, the numbers are lower and lower.

Without some part of Eve where players have real safety, this game will die. The death will be long and slow because many people love the game. But death will come nevertheless. Fight this idea all you want. Throw that "carebear" word around like it means something. There have always been more people who wanted to play this game as carebears, they've just all been driven away by now. And the game has such a forbidding reputation at this point that people are not going to join it as readily or give it as much of a chance as in the past.

This thread is yet more proof that this game is more about bullying than anything else. Suicide ganking is not pvp, it's fake pvp. If the intent of the game is for older players to make the lives of newer and weaker players utterly miserable so that they leave, then this is a good idea. If you want a game where the player base grows and you have more combat by people who want it, then this is just one more step toward the shrinking of Eve. In case you haven't noticed, the game is smaller than it was. The supposed "victory" of the bitter vets over CCP did nothing but confuse the issue.

Solo mining was one of the only ways a casual player could enjoy this game. Getting killed while solo mining has driven a lot of people out of my main's corp. Hardly anybody logs on when we get a war dec, and, increasingly, the numbers are lower and lower.

Without some part of Eve where players have real safety, this game will die. The death will be long and slow because many people love the game. But death will come nevertheless. Fight this idea all you want. Throw that "carebear" word around like it means something. There have always been more people who wanted to play this game as carebears, they've just all been driven away by now. And the game has such a forbidding reputation at this point that people are not going to join it as readily or give it as much of a chance as in the past.

But please, keep looking at ways to force people to play in a style that they don't want and won't accept. That's the Eve mentality, for sure.

Running from Concord seems like a logical thing to do, because if you RP or act out criminal intent, running from the law is part of being a criminal. To have to sit there and wait for it does not make sense.

i doubt ccp will consider the maneuver itself to be an exploit. it has been used in this game for a very long time, in various forms. if anything, they will look into the storing of fitted modules into orcas.

I was just shooting down a stupid reactive carebear idea. "LOL, I know! Make it so they cannot warp out after a gank! That will fix it!" When really, there is nothing here to fix....

It might surprise a bonehead like yourself, but given a choice, I'd prefer to warp off! Its better than having to sit there locked down by Concord for 15 seconds, while an interceptor closes in to snag my pod. Because I prefer not to be podded.

Another news flash: I also prefer to be able to keep my mods, rather than let a random Orca or frigate steal them from me. Not really 'scared' of it as you claim. At this moment, I've got somewhere between 110 and 120 T2 Tornados fit and ready to gank in 5 different ice systems. I don't even count the T2 Catalysts.

Selective thinking here:




It might surprise you but given a choice, the ganked guy would have preferred to not lose ship and pod to you.
Yet he's the carebear and you aren't one?




Again, this is risk aversion. If you do a gank you take the responsibility that comes with it. Else you are as carebear and actually cheating because you gank with a setup not with an empty hull thus you shall lose the setup or get castigated by a GM.

But currently, there is nothing preventing ANYONE from warp scrambling or podding me. Thats what being a -10 in highsec means. Duh. And currently, if I wait around, NPCs will eventually show up and do your work for you.

There is ample time for ANYONE to get a lock on a -10 ganking Tornado, and warp scramble it, and try to pod.

Thus - I put myself in a position to be podded every single gank....so don't talk to me about 'Risk Aversion'.

Why you haven't explained is: Why do you need Concord to do it for you?

I still haven't seen a single cogent argument that explains why gankers need to be locked in place by Concord the instant they shoot.

Read the the OP's post, couldn't be bothered ready the replies.

Short answer... No

The cogent argument is: Because CCP Decided So.
And by signing their EULA you accepted it.

Possibility A) You gank someone and while (or directly after that) a friend shoots down your ship so you get your insurance.

definitely an exploit, basically you can kill dozens of ships in different areas before your death.

definitely an exploit, basically you can kill dozens of ships in different areas before your death.

simple as that, concord needs an instant lock time and warp scramble for 200km, whoever attacks people in high MUST die and should not be able to get away in ANY way

that. is one of the dumber things i've heard. do you want your missions to be unscannable also so you can run them in 100% safety too?

remember when some players tanked concord some while back?

CCP declared that as an exploit and made concord unbeatable at that time

also you compare apples to eggs there, hitting on players should not be safe at all, not even if it takes skill (what exactly takes skill on that anyway? warp in, shoot, warp out, warp back in, shoot, hope to warp out before concord locks you)

you sir, have no idea how ganking in highsec works

no, you are still not 100% safe in highsec, because people can kill you, BUT THEY NEED TO DIE AFTER THAT from concord

that is eve's law

its not about concord reacting too slow to warp in its them reacting too slow when they are allready at the crime scene

how else do you explain kills from solo tornados on freighters?

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12883092

the tornado had to make a ton of volleys for that, and did not get killed

also, the victim was in an npc corp and so no war

its also api verified

that is hilarious.
you want to stop this why?

that is hilarious.
you want to stop this why?

maybe you can live with flying every single ship anywhere, not undocking in anything that is slow

but i cant

how are you supposed to do anything then hauling in cruisers of battleships when this is possible and will be done in jita?

once this is made to a big extend, prices on ships will explode, and you can pay 5 milion for a rifter soon

you're not one of the people to think ahead are you?

nevertheless, that would stil destroy the economy

do you have any idea how many freighters are flying in and out of jita every day? having an escort for every single freighter is near impossible to do, and should not be needed in high sec

i personally dont fly freighter, but this here is definitely an exploit

CCP could just as well make concord tankable again imo

this is a thread about boomeranging being an exploit, not about if highsec players should be safe or not

and with that technique, killing freighters in high is as easy as killing them in 0.0

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12883092

again, just to remember

the ignorance is strong in this one

and i'l stop spamming the thread at this point

i this is not declared being an exploid, i'l get myself a tornado i guess...^^

Expect a boost in Concord response time, warpscrambling ships with a GCC.

Perhaps with an Tornado it's not possible to warp around for 15 minutes to drop the GCC, but with a faster ship it is. A group of interceptors could probably pull this off quite easily. If this groups is big enough you can still take out anything.

As the latter is defined by CCP as an exploit ("Thou shalt not survive Concord!"), the fix to plug this, will likely put an end to the Tornado boomerang as well. The only question is whether we'll see it happen in the update next month or with Inferno.

Snip

Well, well, well.
Freighters are now vulnerable to enterprising Tornado pilots, using the tactic as a multiplier.
I commend those who brilliantly applied and modified this tactic to handle those beasts. This is a revolution that could have a large impact on high-sec logistics.

Instead of the 'brain dead' brute force solution that nobody seems to have a problem with (ie, 20 Tornados on a gate, and before that 20 Tempests, and before that 20 Dominixes)....

The Tornado Boomerang allows pirates to replacing raw numbers with finesse and skill. Hopefully this will lead to a significant increase in freighter destruction in the coming weeks.

This is something I've hoped to see for a very long time.

I've flown freighters for years. I've even lost two to suicide ganks, to the Cardshark Influence and the Russian Thunder Squad respectively.

But effortless logistics in highsec (and JF's in nulsec) is a bad thing - and has been a bad thing for a long time. Loading up a freighter and hitting the Autopilot button as a path to easy risk-free wealth needs to end.

"I fly a freighter and there is no escape! NERF TORNADO!" Nonsense.

-Don't fly AFK. Its MUCH harder to bump a freighter effectively if they know what is going on. An AFK freighter, on the other hand....can be juggled indefinitely.
-Bring an escort. Azarus would work nicely. Why? (Attacking Tornados are GCC'd. That means you can attack them, scramble them, etc.) and foil the entire attack. Doesn't even require the slightest PVP talent - just requires you to be there.

Yes, requiring escorts mean that logistics are now 'more difficult', but now "Red Frog" or anyone, can dispatch pilots or hire mercs to escort the freighters - and mark up your prices on delivery accordingly. Personally, I would LOVE to see escorted convoys in highsec.

Also, remember that more difficult logistics means that trade opportunities for profit increase significantly. Shortages of ships, mineral or commodities in regions lead to ample opportunities for interregional profit - for the SMART haulers, as well as industrialists who want to fill a void. Today, markets are relatively flat across highsec space.......mainly because of frictionless logistics.

"1 Tornado can kill a Freighter - NO FAIR!"
Get a grip people. Its possible, but it is a parlor trick. It takes a long time to accomplish - and is incredibly easy for ANYONE to disrupt. Its the equivalent of "Foolsmate" in chess, anyone with a brain can avoid it. Groups of 3-5 Tornados are much more realistically dangerous - but easily counterable via the methods above.

And you truly expect highsec bears to think this far?

No, CCP is going to nerf it.

2. Explain how you counter 5 tornado's? I can't attack the bumping ship / ships - that will get me flagged and popped, probably for no benefit. If they are fit for full alpha, they probably only have to get three salvos off - the first one is a gimme, as noone can do anything yet. So now you only have to get two salvos more off - or if I have two escorts, two ships get popped the second warp in, two the third and the final one the fourth.

Bring an Arazu. Multiple Long points = lots of dead Tornados to loot. Guaranteed to work every time.

-While approaching your Orca, prep your guns for unfitting first!

1. Before landing 'unload to cargobay' the ammunition first. (otherwise your drag and drop will move the ammo!!!)
2. Then ungroup your guns, using the small 'grouping' button provided next to the highslots. (this avoids a mandatory popup)
3. Land, and open the Corporate Cargo bay. (make sure the Orca is configured for it...hint, its a checkbox)
3. With all your turrets ungrouped and unloaded, you can easily drag and drop them one at a time into the Orca.
4. Do not drag and drop too quickly, wait for each movement to complete before starting the next, or you'll just spin your ship.
5. My personal best is saving all 8x T2 1400MM Arties, all 4 Gyrostab IIs, and the three Tracking Computer IIs.
Sadly, I lost the rigs and one of the Sensor Booster IIs in the explosion. Good luck beating that. :)

It has come to our attention that players have been avoiding retaliation from CONCORD after committing criminal activities in high security space. We would like to remind you of the following information from Customer Support:

GÇÿIf you gain a Global Criminal Countdown by committing an illegal action in high security space, it is considered an exploit to attack a target after you warp away from the grid where you gained that GCC, even if you later return to that grid while still affected by that GCC.

It is a violation of game policy to avoid retaliation from CONCORD and players who are found using this exploit will have action taken by Game Masters on their accounts. A fix for this exploit, including proper patch notes, will be released as soon as possible.



Lead GM Grimmi

Indeed. According to the ruling, the boomerang maneuver is still legal as long as you stay on grid. Pirates rejoice! Take advantage of this GM oversight as much as possible before CCP notices the loophole.

Indeed. According to the ruling, the boomerang maneuver is still legal as long as you stay on grid. Pirates rejoice! Take advantage of this GM oversight as much as possible before CCP notices the loophole.

......

also there is a JUMP freighter in there, I'd like ecplain that at no point are these ships pointed....... meaning if the pilot is there
he can jump out at any time. ( if he lost that JF while afk in lowsec or null he would be considered an absolute idiot, why should hi sec be diferrent, you should NEVER be able to sit 8 bil of isk and walk away)
.

We adjusted the wording slightly to make it less ambiguous. See the full text here:

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4972&tid=1

I also have to restate that we value the spirit of the law over the letter of the law. Also avoiding CONCORD in any way is simply not allowed, attempts to find loopholes in the wording will not fly.

We adjusted the wording slightly to make it less ambiguous. See the full text here:

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4972&tid=1

I also have to restate that we value the spirit of the law over the letter of the law. Also avoiding CONCORD in any way is simply not allowed, attempts to find loopholes in the wording will not fly.

So that means if you stay on grid it's perfectly legal.

Strange the news article is worded differently:

CCP DEV #1 - "How do we encourage more PVP in nulsec and losec?"
CCP DEV #2 - "By removing it from hisec"
CCP DEV #1 - "Brilliant!"

If shooting an afk freighter with a boomerang tornado is your idea of PVP that is pretty sad tbh....

If shooting an afk freighter with a boomerang tornado is your idea of PVP that is pretty sad tbh....

We adjusted the wording slightly to make it less ambiguous. See the full text here:

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4972&tid=1

I also have to restate that we value the spirit of the law over the letter of the law. Also avoiding CONCORD in any way is simply not allowed, attempts to find loopholes in the wording will not fly.

Get off the worn out "what is real pvp" high horse. I swear, it's the equivalent of of being a dull-brained knuckledragger and spouting "no u!" when trying to formulate a comeback to something said.

It does not matter where you are in Eve - your ship is vulnerable when in space. PERIOD. Boomeranging a freighter certainly takes far more piloting skill and a perfect sense of timing than autopiloting your spacecows day in and day out. I swear, Jin Fel is a bot if you ask me.

All I have to say to you is ..... of of