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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.07 06:46:00 -
[1]
Obvious effects in empire:
Minerals -- low ends down, high ends up. Zydrine may benefit most, since that's what rat loot is short on. Salvage -- 100k trit bars, maaaan. T1 meta 1&2 named guns and gyros/heatsinks/magstabs/bcus -- down Freighters -- up?
Any other thoughts?
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.07 06:59:00 -
[2]
Freighters down?
Packtu'sa [NCIC] Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.07 07:29:00 -
[3]
I'm predicting very little change. The number of ships/mods lost to suicide ganking is trivial compared to even modest 0.0 wars and things like the Drone Regions being consolidated and thus the number of ratters shrinking will affect the market far more and even that hasn't had much of an affect. So, all in all, I'd say this will have a damn near trivial impact.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Letias
Caldari Poofdinkles
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Posted - 2008.08.07 10:04:00 -
[4]
Only change i could see is in the ships that are used to do it. Maybe also frieghters down too.. _____________________________
Originally by: Damini Frostmane Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)
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lilija
Capital Innovations
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Posted - 2008.08.07 11:32:00 -
[5]
I don't think it will change anything, how many freighters were ganked in hi sec anyway? Not even one per day. In 0.0 they are dying everyday. So is every other ship.
I'm just happy we will be able to transport more than 2b in freighters from now on
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.07 18:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer I'm predicting very little change. The number of ships/mods lost to suicide ganking is trivial compared to even modest 0.0 wars and things like the Drone Regions being consolidated and thus the number of ratters shrinking will affect the market far more and even that hasn't had much of an affect. So, all in all, I'd say this will have a damn near trivial impact.
Agree. People were also predicting the removal of NPC shuttle orders would make them non-existant or sell for "too much". Shuttles in the systems where there is a demand for shuttles reached equilibrium after a few weeks. In a free market with perfect competition (EVE is not quite a strict free market, but it's closer than many RL ones, and it IS based on the perfect competitional model) any change will cause a speculative bubble or dip followed by a return to equilibrium. This is not to say that there will never be any drastic changes or price swings. But those based on irrational behavior or speculation and not actual changes in supply or demand will simply not last.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 02:46:00 -
[7]
You're thinking price effects through decreased losses.
I'm thinking increased demand through the removal of chilling effect suicide ganking brings to the table.
1. AFK freightering is once again possible and highly profitable. More people will be skilling up for and buying freighters short term. As a side effect courier contracts and hauling in general will yield smaller and smaller profits. This in turn makes some manufacturing strategies easier. 2. More people will AFK mine empire ores in cargo rigged hulks. 3. RMT farmers are completely invulnerable, and thusly more productive. 4. Faction fitted CNRs will be more productive in missions than current t2 ones. 5. Who on earth is gonna buy meta 1 & 2 loot in empire if not to suicide gank with? More rat droppings will be melted.
And so on.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.08 03:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Clair Bear
1. AFK freightering is once again possible and highly profitable. More people will be skilling up for and buying freighters short term. As a side effect courier contracts and hauling in general will yield smaller and smaller profits. This in turn makes some manufacturing strategies easier.
I never stopped AFK'ing my shuttles around high sec, I just kept the value under 3B and never had any trouble.
Originally by: Clair Bear 2. More people will AFK mine empire ores in cargo rigged hulks.
Ya, I addressed that. The political changes in the drone regions were far more significant.
Originally by: Clair Bear 3. RMT farmers are completely invulnerable, and thusly more productive.
No one really bothers with them. Not even in low sec, there's just too many to be worth wasting sec status on.
Originally by: Clair Bear 4. Faction fitted CNRs will be more productive in missions than current t2 ones.
Again, faction fit CNR's didn't go away when suicide ganking hit. They just learned not to AFK them between systems.
Originally by: Clair Bear 5. Who on earth is gonna buy meta 1 & 2 loot in empire if not to suicide gank with? More rat droppings will be melted.
It sold before and it will continue to sell now. Suicide ganking was by no means the biggest use for it, it actually has quite a few uses including cheap PVP setups and invention not to mention it's the only thing noobies can afford.
Got anything else to throw at me?
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 03:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 08/08/2008 03:48:42
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
I never stopped AFK'ing my shuttles around high sec, I just kept the value under 3B and never had any trouble.
Quote:
Got anything else to throw at me?
How's some antimatter ammo sound? Just need the name of the alt with even a B in loot in the afk shuttle, a route and a time...
Also, the political changes in the drone regions are ADDITIVE to the effect of more afk miners cranking out lowends in empire.
Sec status is nothing. I got more than 2 points in less than a week, an hour or two per day. Went from 3.0 to 5.0. If I session change after every BS kill I can get 3% sec status per hour.
Nothing to do now but wait and see. I've already made some bets based on the nano nerf, so this is a purely intellectual excercise for me. I think the effect of the suicide nerf will be far larger than everyone else apparently -- only time will decide who's right.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.08 12:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clair Bear Obvious effects in empire:
Minerals -- low ends down, high ends up. Zydrine may benefit most, since that's what rat loot is short on. Salvage -- 100k trit bars, maaaan. T1 meta 1&2 named guns and gyros/heatsinks/magstabs/bcus -- down Freighters -- up?
Any other thoughts?
Minerals - Low ends are down because of increased supply and a downward pressure on demand (and I think someone somewhere tweaked the drop rates on some things....)
Salvage - Bars have bottomed out because of the Angel fix, and the nano nerf so Polycarbs are no longer the 'in' thing to have and speculators have pushed this crash about as far as it can go. Id expect them to recover at least somewhat (I still feel it will go 250+ again or MCCs will be the new trit bars)
Loot - Always takes ups and downs, nothing new here
Freighters - Down because mineral prices are down. The two main things in any capital are massive amounts of trit and mex. And when the prices of those two are down significantly like now, the parts cost less and hence the final product costs less. |
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.08 17:15:00 -
[11]
I think you'll see less rare items show up on the market for good deals (such as t2 bpo's and other expensive bpo's) because there will be less ganking.
You'll not see much else change really imo except an overall drop in prices as less items will be destroyed which means more items will end up on the market or not need to be purchased twice.
Maybe a 1-2% price drop overall across the whole market, probably focused around minerals, ships and expensive BPO's, which could see a larger drop and other segments will see none.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.08 22:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
I never stopped AFK'ing my shuttles around high sec, I just kept the value under 3B and never had any trouble.
That should really read "I never stopped AFK'ing my freighters around high sec"
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:04:00 -
[13]
I guess I can stop looking for your 3 billion ISK shuttle dam it.
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Eddie Head
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Posted - 2008.08.19 19:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Eddie Head on 19/08/2008 19:03:04
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
I never stopped AFK'ing my shuttles around high sec, I just kept the value under 3B and never had any trouble.
That should really read "I never stopped AFK'ing my freighters around high sec"
Freighters have actually been suicide ganked in high sec? How is that possible given the HPs a freighter has?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.19 19:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Eddie Head Edited by: Eddie Head on 19/08/2008 19:03:04
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
I never stopped AFK'ing my shuttles around high sec, I just kept the value under 3B and never had any trouble.
That should really read "I never stopped AFK'ing my freighters around high sec"
Freighters have actually been suicide ganked in high sec? How is that possible given the HPs a freighter has?
8 to 10 battleships depending on the setups. 10 overheated torp ravens can almost alpha a freighter if need be. So really its an investment in time and about 600 to 800 mil in isk.
BoB had one ganked (about the same time freighter ganking started off really) that was what... close to 13 or 15 bil in cargo. All for the cost of a sec status hit and 600mil in domis and equip |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 20:55:00 -
[16]
The only change there will be is a few less people in Jita, on surrounding gates and on the pipe to Amarr. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.19 20:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal The only change there will be is a few less people in Jita, on surrounding gates and on the pipe to Amarr.
And the pipe to Ours , specifically Udema (sp?) |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 23:37:00 -
[18]
I suspect a rise in demand for "pimped out blingz" now that missionrunners have a slight decrese to percived ganking frequency |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.20 13:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MuffinsRevenger I suspect a rise in demand for "pimped out blingz" now that missionrunners have a slight decrese to percived ganking frequency
Which is funny since it would never stop ganking of faction fit CNRs. |
Sugar Jugs
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Posted - 2008.08.20 13:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: lilija ......
I'm just happy we will be able to transport more than 2b in freighters from now on
So should I feel honoured or ****ed off that I got suicide ganked for 1b mineral value/1.4b market value in cargo? |
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.20 13:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sugar Jugs
Originally by: lilija ......
I'm just happy we will be able to transport more than 2b in freighters from now on
So should I feel honoured or ****ed off that I got suicide ganked for 1b mineral value/1.4b market value in cargo?
Someone was bored that day, you drew the short straw |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.20 18:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Which is funny since it would never stop ganking of faction fit CNRs.
hence the "Percived" part of the statement, i know that ganking won't decrese to much from this :p |
Sugar Jugs
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Posted - 2008.08.20 19:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MuffinsRevenger
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Which is funny since it would never stop ganking of faction fit CNRs.
hence the "Percived" part of the statement, i know that ganking won't decrese to much from this :p
My gank certainly wouldn't have happened. 1.4b of loot (maximum possible) for 15 ravens? @ 80m+5m fitting (faction missiles, named torp launchers). Definitely not worth it without insurance to cover the difference. I can't wait until it comes. I also wouldn't mind if they nerf the base insurance thingy. (I got 230m or something when I lost my charon, seems stupid since I paid for no such policy). |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.20 23:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sugar Jugs
My gank certainly wouldn't have happened. 1.4b of loot (maximum possible) for 15 ravens? @ 80m+5m fitting (faction missiles, named torp launchers). Definitely not worth it without insurance to cover the difference. I can't wait until it comes. I also wouldn't mind if they nerf the base insurance thingy. (I got 230m or something when I lost my charon, seems stupid since I paid for no such policy).
I think you're wrong. Lack of insurance makes battleship suicide ganking less attractive, but if you can field a big enough blob the gank is still worthwhile with more pilots in cheaper ships.
Case/point: just threw a meta 1/faction AM thorax with T1 med. drones into EFT. I'm certainly no cruiser specialist but even I'm looking at about 400 DPS. Does it compare to what I can squeeze out of a t2 mega or domi? No. Is it cheaper than one large t2 neutron blaster? Pretty darn close.
So a larger blob of younger characters is how freighter ganks are likely to go down. 20 cruisers are going to weigh in at far less ISK than a traditional 10 man BS gank, wallet wise.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Originally by: Sugar Jugs
My gank certainly wouldn't have happened. 1.4b of loot (maximum possible) for 15 ravens? @ 80m+5m fitting (faction missiles, named torp launchers). Definitely not worth it without insurance to cover the difference. I can't wait until it comes. I also wouldn't mind if they nerf the base insurance thingy. (I got 230m or something when I lost my charon, seems stupid since I paid for no such policy).
I think you're wrong. Lack of insurance makes battleship suicide ganking less attractive, but if you can field a big enough blob the gank is still worthwhile with more pilots in cheaper ships.
Case/point: just threw a meta 1/faction AM thorax with T1 med. drones into EFT. I'm certainly no cruiser specialist but even I'm looking at about 400 DPS. Does it compare to what I can squeeze out of a t2 mega or domi? No. Is it cheaper than one large t2 neutron blaster? Pretty darn close.
So a larger blob of younger characters is how freighter ganks are likely to go down. 20 cruisers are going to weigh in at far less ISK than a traditional 10 man BS gank, wallet wise.
Bigger loot split = less inclination
SKUNK |
Pax Empyrean
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:14:00 -
[26]
More ways to split means less incentive, but there's also the issue of getting that many people together. It's not always an option.
If using larger numbers of cheaper ships were as viable, people would be doing that already. There will be a decline in suicide ganking as a result.
Anyway, I never understood why insurance paid out on Concord kills in the first place. There doesn't seem to be any good reason for it. |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 15:59:00 -
[27]
Less but not zero inclination. Even a 500M drop from a freighter is about 20M per person for a newbie-ish pirate or merc corp. Sure, it's nothing to someone able to do L4s in their sleep, but for a small up and coming combat corp it's a payday.
The reason nobody does cruiser freighter ganks now is because the BS ganking is currently far more efficient.
I understand the organization point very well -- it's nigh impossible to herd cats for a proper blob right when you need one. But blobs *ARE* happening, it's just a matter of motivation. If other highsec, lowsec and nullsec fun is closed off (read: no more roaming in a nano recon gang, no more suiciding hulks for lulz) players will adapt and find other avenues to express themselves.
Heck, I'm about to go smartbomb ice miners just for giggles. Cruiser blobbing freighters would be at least as much fun.
I think I'll pick up a rax BPO or 10 if I don't already have some and finish training scout drone skills to V because I'm so confident this will be the Way of The Future.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:46:00 -
[28]
No one cruiser ganks because its inefficient to get the alpha damage required when you divide the loot payouts....with insurance changes that'll be even more so. |
VInanath Diesel
Caldari Freedom of Choice
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Posted - 2008.08.29 20:04:00 -
[29]
May be ineficient as far as isk is concerned. However two quotes come to mind...
" Some people wanna see the world burn." " It's not about the money. "
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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.30 04:41:00 -
[30]
Don't forget the sec status grinding... you start adding a horde of people, all of a sudden it becomes much more effeciant to just mission... Caveat for people with sec status to burn, and of course as the above poster mentioned, those who just want to see the world burn... ç¦ |
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