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Thud
Caldari Mad-Warping-Maniacs
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Posted - 2008.08.08 10:29:00 -
[1]
With more and more falcons showing up all day and after the speed nerf makes it harder to catch up to em and chase em away,i think a eccm boost is needed. In most threads about ecm you get told "just fit eccm". Well,thats not as easy as it sounds,the slots you have are rather limited,what are you going to do if you fly a geddon? or a absolution? What will you leave behind on a blaster mega to fit a eccm? Microwarp,scram,web or cap booster? Well,i do have a eccm fittet at all times,i leave my warp disruptor home and let others scrambel,i know,a bit selffish. But the effect it has is just now what i expect from a module that takes away a valuable med slot. I use a t2(and yes,the right one) and i overload it,still i get jammed half of the fight if there is a falcon wich is using 1-2 jammers on me. That is a dissapointing preformence and should be looked at. ____ ____ My english is bad. |
marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2008.08.08 10:39:00 -
[2]
Try fitting some of your ships for range, after all these nefs are all about balance and forcing more ppl to bring varied and versatile ships to combat isn't it?.
Or cant you get your drake/BC to hit at long range yet?.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.08.08 10:52:00 -
[3]
The balance is actually there. You have to use 1 module to counter 50% of a specialized EW ships main modules (or 2 as you stated). When the falcon fit those EW modules, he got nothing left for tanking (don't have a falcon, but the BB is pretty hard to fit after a full ECM rack).
So sounds pretty fair to me.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.08 11:13:00 -
[4]
Yesterday while flying a HAC, I was being jammed by a falcon even using a ECCM, but after I overheated, the Falcon ended missing a cycle and that was enough, he warped out when started to get damage.
It's s a very specialized ship and if it is easy to defend against them they will become completly useless. Just my 2 cents thought
________________ God is my Wingman |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.08 11:54:00 -
[5]
POint is 1v1 won ' t show the reality. THe statistical part does nto get well represented. On 1v1 you will betargeted by 1 jammer because the others will be for otherraces.
gt 2 fleets of 8 ships. One has falcons with 4 jammers the other side has 8 combat ships. Each target would have 4 jammers upon him, most likely the 4 will be of the correct race. That means you will need to make fail 4 jammers in a row to ensure you have time to even lock the falcon. If your strenght is 37 for example (a tempest with an ECCM II) means you have 24% chance to not be jammed on each cycle! That sided with the fact that a tempest will take around 10-12 seconds to lock your falcon even when unjammed, gives another run for the jammers to try jamm you. That result you have 5% chance to stay unjammed long enough to lock a falcon on this situation!!!
Of course its an exagerated environment. But exemplifis why 1v1 cannot be used to evaluate the comulative effect of ecm on a gang fight. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Ulric Denrai
Amarr Glass House
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Posted - 2008.08.08 12:07:00 -
[6]
I use FOF crystals ,T3 ammo.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.08 13:37:00 -
[7]
while we are on this topic; why do stealth bombers have that much sensor strength..? - hound 17 ladar for 42m signature - manticore 20 gravi for 51m signature
if they happen to be uncloaked, it's not exactly easy to probe them... =(
logistics, known for their small sig..? - scimi 17 ladar / 65,90,115m (mostly flown with LSE) - basil 22 gravi / 90m - putting the gist back into logistics |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.08.08 13:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Thud Well,thats not as easy as it sounds,the slots you have are rather limited,what are you going to do if you fly a geddon? or a absolution? What will you leave behind on a blaster mega to fit a eccm? Microwarp,scram,web or cap booster?
Welcome to the world of the Caldari, where we don't even have a spare mid-slot for a scram.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.08.08 17:10:00 -
[9]
ECCM is weak because even agianst a fleet of 1x ECCM battleships, a falcon will still jam an average of two at a time. Its also weak because of the overpowering effects of ECM itself. With ECM being as crippling as it is, the counter for it should also be devestatingly effective.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2008.08.08 17:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter ECCM is weak because even agianst a fleet of 1x ECCM battleships, a falcon will still jam an average of two at a time. Its also weak because of the overpowering effects of ECM itself. With ECM being as crippling as it is, the counter for it should also be devastatingly effective.
Against a fleet of say 50+ BS if two get jammed by a falcon is anybodt aside from the 2 guys in the BS jammed (cos they miss out on a couple of kill mails) gonna care?.
Plus some eccm units give almost 100% boost to str ffs how many other modules do that????????????.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.08 18:05:00 -
[11]
I've been jammed permanently by Falcons with an ECCM on my battleship, and being a Falcon pilot myself, I believe there is an issue. It has to do with the chance-based system that was implemented. I have made up to four battleships worthless before because of my cycle jamming, so there is a problem.
I don't think the solution requires that much thought. If med-slot ECCM was boosted in such a way that even racial ECM had a more difficult time overcoming it, I believe it would also indirectly give a boost to dampeners as a solution for neutralizing a ship's firepower on the field.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.08 18:27:00 -
[12]
Maybe add a ship class of dedicated anti ewar ships? The Gallente versions, for example, have a bonus on Projected ECCM. Maybe even a Aegis Cruiser or something with command modules that boost ewar resistance of the whole gang.
There's definitely development space in this direction.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2008.08.08 18:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: marakor on 08/08/2008 18:33:39
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda I've been jammed permanently by Falcons with an ECCM on my battleship, and being a Falcon pilot myself, I believe there is an issue. It has to do with the chance-based system that was implemented. I have made up to four battleships worthless before because of my cycle jamming, so there is a problem.
I don't think the solution requires that much thought. If med-slot ECCM was boosted in such a way that even racial ECM had a more difficult time overcoming it, I believe it would also indirectly give a boost to dampeners as a solution for neutralizing a ship's firepower on the field.
A BS now has 17-24+ str base with a good eccm you get 98% on projected you get 120% boosts that is a boost up to 40-55ish.
Even with perfect skills and faction mods a falcon has 14-15 ECM jam str that is a less than 30% chance to jam with faction racials.
Its already chance based, so on that occasion he rolled 7's and you rolled snake eyes if you got jammed for a few cycles (as if you had been perma jammed you would still be there now).
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.08 18:46:00 -
[14]
Two things I'd like to see
Combine ECCM with Sensor Booster and make +Sensor Str, +Res and +Range each scripted options.
A small sig radius ship class to fit various anti-ewar on, something that can be used generally but is small enough that it can remote boost a carrier without getting PWNed by POS guns. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Grytok
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:09:00 -
[15]
I don't think that ECCM needs a boost, these modules do their job actually from my experience.
The problem that I see is much more of the nature, that racial ECM-modules even work against the ship-sensors of other race' heritage, as they do not stack but get calculated every cycle for their own.
ECM-Drones are a good example in that case, as Vespa EC-600 only have a jam-strength of 1.5 against all race' sensors but jam a battleship for 1/3 of the time easily using 5 of them.
As Racial-jammers have around 4 jam-stregth on the other races-sensors, they are pretty much usable against any kind of target, which then adds up. So a Falcon with 5 Racial jammers has 5 chances per cycle to jam a ship, irrelevant of it's race' heritage.
Take away with the jam-strength against other race' sensors on racial jammers, but the one it's ment for and we'll see alot less perma-jamming.
Maybe Multis will get used then instead of Racial jammers, but they then have alot less stregth. .
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August Guns
Minmatar Infinite ISK
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Posted - 2008.08.09 00:57:00 -
[16]
I think the real problem is that ECM is the only really viable electronic warfare option left. Instead of nerfing ECM and ships that carry it; boost other recons and give players a choice. August Guns |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.09 08:46:00 -
[17]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/08/2008 08:47:41
Originally by: August Guns I think the real problem is that ECM is the only really viable electronic warfare option left. Instead of nerfing ECM and ships that carry it; boost other recons and give players a choice.
Actually damps are still a great type of ewar and highly useful plus they are still used by a lot of the well known pvp entities in eve on a variety of ships.
Oh and as a falcon pilot ive been shot at by snipers and had to warp plus shut down by damp fitted ships on a lot of occasions although as per usual its the more pro pvp entities that had the foresight to bring a relatively fast ship with a damp or summat with range.......
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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