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Tal Kjelthorne	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:33:00 - [1] Greetings, Recently during a mining operation I got the usual can flipper and took him out. Only this time it was different, as he managed to take out my hulk before going down himself. A day later I received a wardec and last night just received another from another corporation, both I believe are tied to the mining event and both corporations are known highsec griefers. (The tradeoff was bad on my part, a Hulk for a Thorax. I had combat ships on site at the time, it was just bad luck on my part.) The problem is my corporation isn't big. Two wardecs against me significantly reduces my entire corporation's ability to play. So my question is this: What are my options? My usual friends are in a losing war themselves, so I can't ask them for help, and I only have essentially a few battleships and some cruisers/frigates at my disposal. We'll fight, but we'll probably lose. That's just numbers. (20 on 5 doesn't bode well for the 5). We're an Industry corporation. We don't Yarr for a living. If I pay ransom, there's no guarantee that they just won't wardec my corp again the next day. I don't even know the consequences of surrendering are and since most of them are older than me and most of my SP is in Science/Industry (yes, I actually like doing that stuff) and I've got most of my personal assets associated with the building up of my corporation. Finally, if the corp just logs for a week or two, they may give up, only to come back again when we finally log back in, creating a wardec ad-infinitum, and I've still lost two weeks of work which means a lot of isk gone. I'm looking for advice. What can I do short of joining an alliance or disbanding my corporation? I'm not trying to whine here, I'm just honestly at a loss as to where to go. This thread is probably going to come back and bite me, but I have to turn somewhere. Comments and advice are greatly appreciated.
Dark Angelete Gallente Dark Angel Battalion	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:42:00 - [2] Get said friends in a war, combine your forces and go at the war targets together. Then roam in ships that are effective, but don't cost a mint. Switch corps, until the war dies down and then go back when you feel the coast is clear.Join an alliance and let them soak up the war.(gay option imo) Move, funny enough just moving and making it hard for the corp to go 20 jumps works for some.Once don't work try twice or more. (semi gay option imo) Do they have any other wars?Check.Then if they do, convo those corps and explain you have common war targets and should hunt them together. Fight your fight, it's better to learn from this and gain combat experience.If they are good, then you'll get better.It might cost you, but thats EVE and it's worth it in the end game.
Jones Bones Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:48:00 - [3] Solutions: 1. Hire mercs. If you are an indy corp it would probably be cheaper for you. 2. Corp jump. Use alts to create fake corps for you and your mates to jump to. 3. Move. Move 2-3 regions away. Very few will give chase. 4. Fight. Probably the least favorable considering your size and experience. But it might not be a bad idea at first to get used to PvP. If you are going to do option 1, just post in Crime and Punishment.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:54:00 - [4] Honestly, if you fight and do your best, you will look back at this time as a corp fondly. When I had first started my corporation we got war decced by a much more experienced PvP corporation. Yes, they kicked our asses around and got lots of easy ganks, but the fighting we did as a corporation at that time solidifed bonds that would have otherwise never developed. People got a taste for PvP and what it was all about and grew from there. So in short, my advice to you is to fight. It is what Eve Online is about. You will always be looked at as prey unless you learn to fight and have the will to do so.
Tal Kjelthorne Kjelthorne Industries	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:56:00 - [5] Thank you thus far for the comments. A sort of off-topic question, but do people look down on Industrial Corporations? I mean, we're not bots, nor do I allow bots in my corp. We're real folk, I'm just wondering. Also, anyone know any decent merc corps? It would be nice to have some guns on my side too.
Dmitri Vasso Nomads Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:57:00 - [6] Edited by: Dmitri Vasso on 08/08/2008 13:00:28 Edited by: Dmitri Vasso on 08/08/2008 12:57:55 Your best option would probably be to hire a merc corp, but that usually ain't cheap. edit: No, people don't look "down" at industrial corps, they're just "easy pickings". 2nd edit: http://eve-search.com/thread/816889/page/2 list of various mercenary corps
Aneu Angellus Caldari Revival.	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Dmitri Vasso Edited by: Dmitri Vasso on 08/08/2008 13:00:28 Edited by: Dmitri Vasso on 08/08/2008 12:57:55 Your best option would probably be to hire a merc corp, but that usually ain't cheap. edit: No, people don't look "down" at industrial corps, they're just "easy pickings". 2nd edit: http://eve-search.com/thread/816889/page/2 list of various mercenary corps In my humble oppinion pure mining industrial corps are looked down upon by quite alot of the pure-PVP people in the game. Seen as easy targets, weak and vulnerable, exploited to get money out of and so forth, so in essence yes some industrial corporations without pvp factions are looked down upon, doesnt mean to say its right, doesnt mean to say its the norm but it is there. ________________ REVIVAL
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:13:00 - [8] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/08/2008 13:15:25 Originally by: Tal Kjelthorne Thank you thus far for the comments. A sort of off-topic question, but do people look down on Industrial Corporations? I mean, we're not bots, nor do I allow bots in my corp. We're real folk, I'm just wondering. Also, anyone know any decent merc corps? It would be nice to have some guns on my side too. People normally have issues with industrial corps because a lot of them play eve like a bunch of solo players with a common chat channel insted of working like a corporation. This makes it easy for people to lay smackdown upon them for a laugh. If wardecs are really a problem, NPC corps are a alternative. But you sould like the kind of guy who wants to fight though wars. Key thing for all new corps is to train your corpmates to work as a corporation insted of a collection of solo players. Its not always easy starting to run a corp but the first thing every corps needs to do is build a stockpile for its first wardec - because every corp will get a wardec. Be that a combination of saving a fee for mercs, making lots of disposable ship etc etc. If you have a stockpile, you can pvp it away and then work towards building a new stockpile after the war is over. Expect to lose ships (which is ok because you built a stockpile, remember) and ask your attackers what you reckon you could have done better after you lose your engangements. You might be surprised with the results. Of course, the above is all hindsight, but for now, in the crime and punishment section of the forums is a section on merc corps. Remember to try to work alongside your mercs to learn and have fun in this game. Dont worry too much about your first wardec, since it means you know how to prepare for your second... and third etc etc. -- Billion Isk Mission
Volarius D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:15:00 - [9] Join illuminati, they will protect you.
Tal Kjelthorne Kjelthorne Industries	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/08/2008 13:15:25 People normally have issues with industrial corps because a lot of them play eve like a bunch of solo players with a common chat channel insted of working like a corporation... Could you elaborate somewhat on that? I'm not sure where you're going. I do know that when I ask people to join my corp, I have one Golden Rule, the corp comes first. I follow that rule to the letter (because I believe in it), that's why my personal wallet usually doesn't have jack in it, but the corp hangar is full of researched blueprints and my corpmates have the ships/rigs/modules they want (within reason, Type-A Gist Shield Boosters are out of scope). In a nutshell, if you work for the corp, the corp works for you. I hope that falls a bit higher than a collection of solo players. Originally by: Volarius Join illuminati, they will protect you. No thanks. I don't want to pansy out of this.
Dark Angelete Gallente Dark Angel Battalion	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Tal Kjelthorne Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/08/2008 13:15:25 People normally have issues with industrial corps because a lot of them play eve like a bunch of solo players with a common chat channel insted of working like a corporation... Could you elaborate somewhat on that? Some people play this game for leisure, some people play this game to test their skill and tactics vs other people trying the same. Like most games, whats one of the first things you attack?resources, what does a mining corp gather and collect in EVE for the most part "resources". People will always bash others for being or thinking different.Thats the internet,being able to slate others behind a "mask" without RL repercussions. Try this game in all it's glory, as stated corps get war dec'd.It's going to happen and more than once. A tactic that has worked from the beginning of EVE and it alot of fun; just get into cheap frigs(fit right) take out a few high costing targets and even if you lose your ships and get one, that a huge isk ratio to your side.After a few of these ,and they can't hit you hard they wont' see a point. EVE is a vast cold *****, don't just two pump her.Explore her body, try it all.You might be surpirsed i can't taell you how many small mining corps go all out PVP after getting a good taste of it... then as a corp your diverse and have more industrial side of EVE and PVP prowess.
Bfoster White Wolves Syndicate Ocularis Inferno	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:22:00 - [12] Edited by: Bfoster on 08/08/2008 14:23:14 They have given some good advice here, and are exactly right, they war dec'd you because they feel you are easy prey. If you want to fight, I'd change things up.. You say you have BS's and BC's ready.. Get all your guys togather, hunt THEM.. Go to their HQ, they will not be expecting it.. Don't sit in a roid field guarding a hulk.. Work as a team, teamwork can always overpower stupidity!!! Do the unexpected!!! _______________________________________________
Tal Kjelthorne Kjelthorne Industries	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:25:00 - [13] Thank you for the advice. I think something I need to answer myself and get over is the ship PvP jitters. I still keep thinking that ship = life, which isn't totally the case. So fight we will, win or lose. I think hired guns will help the cause though, especially if we're in the fleet doing damage as well. I appreciate the time given here.
Ephemeral Waves Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:35:00 - [14] Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 08/08/2008 14:38:55 Originally by: Tal Kjelthorne Finally, if the corp just logs for a week or two, they may give up, only to come back again when we finally log back in, creating a wardec ad-infinitum, and I've still lost two weeks of work which means a lot of isk gone. Couple of options. Relocate your operations to a lesser populated part of EvE until the wardec expires. The wardec's are looking for cheap ganks. They're not going to travel 40 jumps to find you. Yes, if you just log off for a week they will get bored and will not renew the war dec. It costs money (not much admittedly) but they can only have so many open at once. If you are not providing entertainment, they will use that war dec on somebody else. And as others said, if you want to fight. Use disposable ships and just have fun with it. Build a pile of cheap frigates and go out in a blaze of fun. Eph.
Dark Angelete Gallente Dark Angel Battalion	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:37:00 - [15] One quick thing about Ship = Life It does, if you have a ship that you can't afford to replace or insure.There are plenty of combo's out there that are super effective and easy to replace.
Ackaroth D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:40:00 - [16] Some excellent advice here. And a guy above me hit the nail on the head. Get your buddies together, and go looking for a fight. Fit as best you can, and go to it. BS's and BC's are insurable, and if you guys arent super high sp, you wont be using alot of t2, so insurance should literally be able to keep you pvping. Look for pilots who want to pvp to join up with your corp, maybe even start a permanent pvp wing out of it. I used to run a small empire corp, and believe me, if you face this head on and look to have fun with it, you and your corp will grow from it, and always look back and laugh about "that one badass battle". EVE, through a noobs eyes, is such a better place. Last tidbit of advice, talk around Crime and Punishment forums, see if you can get intel on these guys. Ask around, find out who their pilots are. Make a list, add them to your buddy list so you always know how many they have available at any given time. Camp smart, get them stuck in a station and then stick a BC/BS on it at undock point with blasters fitted. If more than 1 is in local, stick 2 on the undock, point, basically avoid getting outnumbered, and then they wont be able to undock 5 guys on your 1 camping station, easy trap if they are smart about it. Good luck! __________________________________________ -"This band I'm listening to is sooo underground, they released their first album as 60 minutes of silence." -"As an mp3?" -"As a word document..."
Dracorimus Caldari Edge Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:54:00 - [17] Grit your teeth, get your guys together and go toe to toe with them, you will take losses but think about it so will they, dont let them bully you into anything, just kick their virtual A** - Die faster damnit!
Dracorimus Caldari Edge Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Ephemeral Waves Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 08/08/2008 14:38:55 Originally by: Tal Kjelthorne Finally, if the corp just logs for a week or two, they may give up, only to come back again when we finally log back in, creating a wardec ad-infinitum, and I've still lost two weeks of work which means a lot of isk gone. Couple of options. Relocate your operations to a lesser populated part of EvE until the wardec expires. The wardec's are looking for cheap ganks. They're not going to travel 40 jumps to find you. Yes, if you just log off for a week they will get bored and will not renew the war dec. It costs money (not much admittedly) but they can only have so many open at once. If you are not providing entertainment, they will use that war dec on somebody else. And as others said, if you want to fight. Use disposable ships and just have fun with it. Build a pile of cheap frigates and go out in a blaze of fun. Eph. As mentioned here, all they want is quick easy ganks, not stand up fights, so this is the better option for you in the long run - Die faster damnit!
Alex Salas BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis	Posted - 2008.08.08 21:33:00 - [19] Did you s\|-\|1t talk in local by any chance?
WishBlade Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.08.09 08:38:00 - [20] Edited by: WishBlade on 09/08/2008 08:37:54 Originally by: Jones Bones Solutions: 2. Corp jump. Use alts to create fake corps for you and your mates to jump to. Even though you'd be on the other end of the deal you'd still get the end result of this: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=838978 Dumb enough to have targets whining they have less ships podding them, you're on the receiving side. Aweseomenessness
Niding Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.09 08:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Niding on 09/08/2008 08:45:15 I think the best course of action is to just fight back on your own. Hireing mercs might help you out with this particular wardec, but its usually just a temporary dec. What are you going to do when the second round of wardecs hits you? Hire mercs again...and again? It will become more costly in the long run to be dependent on others for security than to develop the skills and expirience to defend yourself. If your mining, use scouts in adjacent systems so you know when wartargets approaches, so you can dock up mining ships and switch to combat vessels. And the first loss of ship and pod is always the hardest. After a while you get used to it Just try to coordinate your whole corporation so you use Voice comms (ventrilo/teamspeak), talk about combat ship fittings and shiptypes that compliment eachother in a fight (can read about fittings in scrapheap forum; http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=dcf0615e3de3d242a626cc94da12d0d3) Disclaimer; not all the shipsetups on scrapheap are great, but atleast it will give you insight in many variations and often the math behind it Dont fit anything more expensive that T2 stuff on your ship as shiplosses with faction will keep the pirates intrested for longer and finance their campagin. Also, try to get your corpmates to spesialize in areas of combat to maximize their understanding where they belong in a combat situation and what is expected of them. After a while ppl that spesialize has a tendency to know what to do before the Fleet Commander even tells him/her. Some of the things i can think of etc etc Good luck!
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.08.09 08:55:00 - [22] Combine your forces. Don't let a few people fight here, some more there and another part at a third place. Especially when you have low numbers it is essential that you stick together and that you get everything coordinated. Let alts in npc corps do the logistics so that you have always supplies ready and are not in danger of getting your haulers blown up. Try to inflict damage. Use cheap ships and cheap fittings. And platinum insure the ships! If you lose 20 cheap ships (after insurance a loss maybe of 40 mil) but if you can kill 1 expensive ship (t2 ship + fittings worth maybe 70 mil) then you are doing well. And most important! Don't give up! Ships are meant to be blown up and even if you have a really bad kill/loss ratio it doesn't matter much as above example made clear.
Darth Maule modro CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.09 09:23:00 - [23] One thing you wouldn't really want to do is pay because once you do you would have every yar wannabee in the area line up because they would also expect to get payed.
Karbowiak Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.09 13:19:00 - [24] if you choose the pvp way - after you've kicked their ass one time, remember this golden rule: SMACKTALK, THE MORE THE BETTER ! same goes if you lost, tho then they will smacktalk back, but oh well LONG LIVE CONCRETE! Free Killboard Hosting Service
Kirana Si House of Lubrication	Posted - 2008.08.09 13:51:00 - [25] You could also call GM Gandalf for help
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.09 17:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 09/08/2008 17:24:11 Ooops... sorry. Forgot what section I was reading. Please excuse the intrusion.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:03:00 - [27] Be mobile. Build assets for fighting and grinding in multiple places and put jump clones there. When war targets come into local, switch to another location. Otherwise you'll have to actually fight or just sit in the station. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:12:00 - [28] EW... Nothing that pirates love more than EW because almost zero of them take modules to help counter nor fly many EW ships. When I was in a relatively small industrial corp we flew with 2/3 EW ships when wardecced, only takes about 2-3 weeks to get good enough EW skills. It is the best form of defense. When they see everyone flying around in blackbirds they are going to head for greener pastures because they are going to be around holding their genitals and not get much done. Even if you lose a few BBs, they are real dollar dazzlers. Will make for sad pirate tears.
BuckStrider Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.09 22:13:00 - [29] Edited by: BuckStrider on 09/08/2008 22:14:35 Fight back.... 1) Your an industry corp so I'm sure you have a few iskies to burn. 2) Nobody says you have to fly 'uber fitted' ships...Bring a whole bunch of t1 crap fitted crusiers and frigs (with standard t1 parts) and go after them 3) Make sure you have a 'balanced' fleet containing a mix of EW and DPS ships...It's totally amazing what few Blackbirds can do to turn the tide of a battle 4) HAVE SOME ORGANIZATION... Go right after what you think is thier best ship (let's say a Raven)...Have everyone in your gang shoot at the same target you call out....If you kill it and loose 6 cruisers, you still come out on top because 6 cruisers and 3 frigs don't even come close to the cost of a Battleship. And the most important... 5) HAVE FUN!...Because that's what this game is all about. GL to you...Fight them and earn their respect...It's funny how enemies become your friends in this game because of it.

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