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Mista Biz
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Posted - 2008.08.08 21:54:00 -
[1]
My alt is about to step into a basilisk. I want to use him to rep my raven during missions so that I can fit for full damage(torps) and a buffer tank.
What are some basic rules for aggro?
1. If I warp in the raven and take full aggro then warp in the basilisk to rep, will the rats ever switch targets?
2. Will a max rep basilisk able to keep my raven alive on full aggro? - - My raven buffer would be: 3x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, 3x CDFE, 1x PDU II, 1x DCU II
3. Considering the top speed of my raven will be close to 450m/s, will there be a problem putting damage on some NPCs that continue to run to their optimal range that is further than my torp range?
Thanks in advance.
MB
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Chomp Rock
Caldari Templar Republic
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Chomp Rock on 08/08/2008 23:45:31 rules of aggro vary from mission to mission. sometimes they hit the closest player, sometimes they hit the one that aggressed them, or sometimes they aggro whoever started the aggro for that respawn chain. look on eve-survival for details regarding each mission.
a setup i use (with great success) is a scorpion with CPR II's in the lows and cap recharger II's in the mids, with either five large and one medium repper, or six large reppers. fit your raven with a t2 shield tank, beef up on resists, stay at the warp-in spot, try to get as much aggro and respawn directed at him as you can, stay alive while doing so, then warp in your repper (within 8k) and keep your dps alive.
all you need on the alt is cap skills at 4, BS 1, electronics 5, and shield emission 4. no rigs, no fitting mods required, and can perma-run.
i don't see much of an advantage to using a basilisk. i kitted a basilisk once with all cap mods and CCC's, and i think it let me perma-run 3 large reppers. YMMV, but unless you really need your logistics to work from more than 8k away, it's not all that useful (maybe looting/repping/salvaging all at once?)
for torps, i'd only consider using t2 launchers with javelins and missile speed/flight time rigs. even then, i don't recommend it as torps for missioning with a raven are only useful when you have a painter, can manage range, don't mind chasing down npcs. your DPS is through the roof, but when you factor in everything that costs you time, cruise missiles probably have a better applied dps when averaged across the whole length of most missions.
anyways, my setup allows me to tank almost every L4 with full aggro (haven't tested it with EA 5/5) and hammer away without having to move around or warp out. the isk/hour is great, and you can afk with that setup without worrying about capping out or tank failures
Originally by: Lui Kai Chribba - when you log in next, let us know what the end credits to the game say
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Nummb
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:43:00 -
[3]
This has been asked and answered several times before, but I will let you in on a little secret...
It is way more important and effective to put out more GANK than TANK.
If your alt was in a Dominix and just launched heavy drones you would be more effective than one Raven and a shield repping ship.
If you had two Ravens in a mission you could have one with Torps and one with Cruise and do them much faster.
Or, you could train up the alt to fly a completely passive tank with light drones and heavy missiles and bring in your Raven to do the heavy lifting.
Basically, focus on killing stuff faster.
Originally by: Ambrose Bierce Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum (I think that I think, therefore I think that I am.)
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:45:00 -
[4]
1: Correct, but new waves can and will target the basalisk. So a cloak is a good way to advoid aggro.
2: I got a Guardian with 3 Large Remote Armor Repairers and rarely do I have to use more than 2. But I also fit the BS with appropiate hardners.
3: No, most BS's will only fly about 160-180 m/s. Only when closing will they use MWD/AB's. But if you experience problems, just use a couple of web drones, that should take care of that problem.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.09 01:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nummb It is way more important and effective to put out more GANK than TANK.
This!
Even if you are having a hard time tank missions, ganking stuff so that it can't shoot back is almost always more effective than trying to add remote repping from an alt.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.08.09 08:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Nummb It is way more important and effective to put out more GANK than TANK.
This!
Even if you are having a hard time tank missions, ganking stuff so that it can't shoot back is almost always more effective than trying to add remote repping from an alt.
word, although 2 ravens with 2 shield transporters fit as well might be nice for some situations.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.08.09 10:30:00 -
[7]
In my experience you are better off with two ships that have a combination of gank and tank - either one of which can handle full aggro for a while, until the combination of their firepower kills everything. I really like drawing full aggro with a Dominix, popping drones out, then focus firing with another ship until everything is dead. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.09 15:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton word, although 2 ravens with 2 shield transporters fit as well might be nice for some situations.
Especially since that doubles the number of launchers and might free up low slots to fit BCU's instead of PDU's = more Gank.
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Aiko Intaki
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Aiko Intaki on 09/08/2008 19:30:01 Pro 2-box missioning tip - Work toward a Golem and Dominix. Dominix: Medium tank, 4ish salvagers in high, shield rep drones, sentry drones and hammerhead IIs. Golem: Better tank, 3ish tractors, torp or cruiser fit as you like it, hammerhead IIs.
Warp the Golem in, and take aggro before warping the Dominix in. Park the Domi and deploy the sentry drones in assist mode off the Golem. Set the Golem into orbit at 1000m around the Domi, killing and tractoring all your wrecks in to loot. Occasionally switch over to the Dominix to target up wrecks for salvaging.
On missions with annoying ECM, warp the Dominix in first to take aggro.
To your initial question concerning the basilisk... What you're planning is what I had originally planned for my second character as well. I ended up finding the shield rep drones more effective than remote shield repping off the basilisk (though I may simply have lacked the skills to see it's full effectiveness). Certainly, the flexibility of a Dominix in being able to add the additional DPS it can with minimal overhead through assisting sentries is a boon that should be considered. The added 600m^3 of cargo space for loot and salvage isn't something to sneeze at either.
Edit: Raven + Dominix works pretty much the same way, but lacks the sexy of 40km tractors and a large marauder cargo bay... thus the suggestion of "working toward" a Golem.
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Mista Biz
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Posted - 2008.08.10 16:05:00 -
[10]
thx for all the replies.
i didnt think about the double raven thing. seems like such the obvious answer. im thinking t2 tank with shield reppers should work well and put on 3 BCUs for each. My third character is working towards a dominix too so this is win!
I dont really care about loot as i just want to power through the missions, although the domi will make a nice looter while things are going slow.
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Aiko Intaki
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Posted - 2008.08.10 17:35:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Aiko Intaki on 10/08/2008 17:35:02
Originally by: Mista Biz thx for all the replies.
i didnt think about the double raven thing. seems like such the obvious answer. im thinking t2 tank with shield reppers should work well and put on 3 BCUs for each. My third character is working towards a dominix too so this is win!
I dont really care about loot as i just want to power through the missions, although the domi will make a nice looter while things are going slow.
I suppose the largest benefit of the Domi/Raven or Domi/Golem pairing (which I didn't really stress) is the ease of two-boxing. I play both accounts on a single laptop, so I generally try to minimize switching between windowed sessions as much as possible. To this end, the Domi seems best able to serve as a companion to a primary missioner. I've even considered upgrading to a Kronos/Golem pairing, but the ease of putting sentry drones in assist off the primary missioner for maintenance-free and significant added DPS is just too compelling.
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null01001
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Aiko Intaki Edited by: Aiko Intaki on 09/08/2008 20:35:35 Pro 2-box missioning tip - Work toward a Golem and Dominix. Dominix: Medium tank, 4ish salvagers in high, shield rep drones, sentry drones and hammerheads. Golem: Better tank, 3ish tractors, torp or cruiser fit as you like it, hammerheads.
Warp the Golem in, and take aggro before warping the Dominix in. Park the Domi and deploy the sentry drones in assist mode off the Golem. Set the Golem into orbit at 1000m around the Domi, killing and tractoring all your wrecks in to loot. Occasionally switch over to the Dominix to target up wrecks for salvaging.
On missions with annoying ECM, warp the Dominix in first to take aggro.
To your initial question concerning the basilisk... What you're planning is what I had originally planned for my second character as well. I ended up finding the shield rep drones more effective than remote shield repping off the basilisk (though I may simply have lacked the skills to see it's full effectiveness). Certainly, the flexibility of a Dominix in being able to add the additional DPS it can with minimal overhead through assisting sentries is a boon that should be considered. The added 600m^3 of cargo space for loot and salvage isn't something to sneeze at either.
Edit: Raven + Dominix works pretty much the same way, but lacks the sexy of 40km tractors and a large marauder cargo bay... thus the suggestion of "working toward" a Golem.
Wow Exactly like me ! 4 salvagers on domi + 3 tractors on Golem, Bouncers, Ogres, Hammerheads and heavy shield mantenance drones.
Few things differ from your PVE cfg :
I use a Sin, not a domi. The Sin does not have a tank as he never take aggro. It's only use is for cargo loot (2500m3 of space), killing + salvaging. Yeah, Sin is weak (tank) but it has 1 more med slot + 1 more high slot and has a agility bonus.
My Sin fitting : High : 4 salvagers + 2 tractors + 1 drone link augmentator Med : 1 100mn AB + 1 XL SB + 4 drones navigation computers (make my Ogres as fast as my Golem Hammerheads ) Low : 6 cargo exp
Another alt is sitting at station or gate with Vulture (Fleet Command). This baby has maxed out leadership skill (took him almost a year for that) so the fleet bonus (6 warfare links) is very appriciated
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NO I'M NOT AN ALT ! Yea, let's talk about my bad pick in the name's bag |
Daraxia
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:34:00 -
[13]
I use for myself Kronos + Cnr, 2x mag field on Kronos + 3x BCU on CNR with CN launchers, i Finish mordus headhunters lvl IV about 1-2 min before receiving the bountys( for exemple) I think its a good setup to use 2x full dps ships, you dont really need to tank lvl IV's.
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Mista Biz
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aiko Intaki is the ease of two-boxing
I have a 28" LCD and a 22" LCD side-by-side.
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Galia Bonaventure
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:15:00 -
[15]
It is true, the Golem + Domi combo works wonders
My team-up is
Golem 4x Siege II 3x Small Tractor Beams
1x CN Large Shield Booster 1x CN Shield Boost Amp 1x Mission Specific 1 1x Mission Specific 2 (or CN Inv Field) 1x CN Inv Field 1x Hvy Electrochem Cap Booster (loaded with 400's) 1x PWNAGE Painter
3x CN BCSs 1x PDS II
1x Rocket Fuel Cache I rig 1x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I rig
Drones 5x Medium 5x Light
Domi 2x LAR II 2x Mission Specific 1 2x Mission Specific 2 1x Cap Power Relay II
2x OmniDirectionals 3x Cap Recharger IIs
1x Drone Link Aug 1x Large Shield Transporter 4x Salvagers
3x CCC I rigs Drones 5x Sentry 5x Heavy 5x Medium 5x Light 5x Medium Shield Maintenance II
Sometimes the Domi has the better tank, sometimes the Golem does. Doesn't matter much, as everything dies *very* quick and salvages quick as well.
I know some of you say "A cap booster on a PVE ship? Heresy!" Cooldown I say, it is there only as an emergency power source to the Shield Booster in case of accidental/dangerous aggression mismanagement (it happens from time to time). Elsewise, the staggering DPS is the primay tank.
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Qob
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Posted - 2008.08.11 21:25:00 -
[16]
My alt and I fly twin ravens. Works great. Doesn't matter who ends up with aggro. Things melt quickly with two ravens.
Plus shield transporters don't have the shield boost disadvantage that capacitor relays impose on shield boosters.
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Mista Biz
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Posted - 2008.08.11 22:30:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Mista Biz on 11/08/2008 22:33:41
Originally by: Qob My alt and I fly twin ravens. Works great. Doesn't matter who ends up with aggro. Things melt quickly with two ravens.
Plus shield transporters don't have the shield boost disadvantage that capacitor relays impose on shield boosters.
...but your ravens have their own personal shield boosters right?
If that is not clear i would assume you just fit standard cruise raven and add 2 large shield transporters to the end of it?
also, i'd like to fit afterburners in order to get to gates quicker. am i safe to omit shield boost amps?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.08.11 23:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton word, although 2 ravens with 2 shield transporters fit as well might be nice for some situations.
Especially since that doubles the number of launchers and might free up low slots to fit BCU's instead of PDU's = more Gank.
6 launchers + 4 bcu + perma tank = my raven
3 heatsink paladin + 4 bcu cruise raven (golem in a month, with torps after two) =
thinking of going for a kronos/domi (10 days left on sentry drone op 5 on me) but would have to train up gallete bs from galletne frig 2, and t2 large hybrids from t2 smalls, and I kinda want to do cal bs 5, and maybe minmatar bs for a cruise + sentry phoon
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Misina Arlath
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:02:00 -
[19]
Rats have a simple rule.
Once they lock you and/or fire on you, they will never switch targets unless you are destroyed, warp out or kill them. Once "aggro" is on you, it's stuck on you. No "taunt" or "over aggro" stuff in EVE like you find in fantasy MMO's where you have tank classes with aggro skills and abilities.
There are some rules as to WHY the rats will lock onto you.
1) Getting within their "aggro radius", that is, flying to close will make them lock you.
2) Using drones will, in some missions, draw aggro onto the drones, first, then onto you if your drone is destroyed or you return them to drone bay.
3) Shooting at a group of rats that have not yet been aggroed will make all the rats in that group (and linked groups if any) lock onto you.
4) Shooting specific ships will cause other ships to lock you (such as a fleet member who wasn't the first to warp into the 2nd pocket in Worlds Collide L4 then shooting the "Spy" ships).
A good way to know how aggro is obtained or taken is to use www.eve-survival.com and read up on the mission info for each mission. Usually good and complete info there.
When running missions in a fleet, you want your tanking ship to warp in first so he takes any of the immediate "within aggro radius" aggro from rats. Once the tank has the aggro from the immediate threats, the rest of the fleet warp in and engage them.
If someone gets aggro and they aren't fitted to tank, have to weak tank or have no tank, they have to warp out in order to "clear" the aggro, then fly back in again. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!" |
Mista Biz
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Posted - 2008.08.12 19:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mista Biz
...but your ravens have their own personal shield boosters right?
If that is not clear i would assume you just fit standard cruise raven and add 2 large shield transporters to the end of it?
also, i'd like to fit afterburners in order to get to gates quicker. am i safe to omit shield boost amps?
Bump for clarification.
Thanks in advance
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.12 19:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mista Biz
Originally by: Mista Biz
...but your ravens have their own personal shield boosters right?
If that is not clear i would assume you just fit standard cruise raven and add 2 large shield transporters to the end of it?
also, i'd like to fit afterburners in order to get to gates quicker. am i safe to omit shield boost amps?
Bump for clarification.
Thanks in advance
Whether it's safe to leave off a shield boost amp just depends. For some missions, you will want a normal Raven tank (xl boost/amp/3-4 hard), for others, you won't need any tank with 2 ships, but in any case, you will need less tank than you would need solo. Think of dual accounts as a strong gank tank ship, and fit accordingly.
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Mista Biz
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Posted - 2008.08.12 19:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Mista Biz
Originally by: Mista Biz
...but your ravens have their own personal shield boosters right?
If that is not clear i would assume you just fit standard cruise raven and add 2 large shield transporters to the end of it?
also, i'd like to fit afterburners in order to get to gates quicker. am i safe to omit shield boost amps?
Bump for clarification.
Thanks in advance
Whether it's safe to leave off a shield boost amp just depends. For some missions, you will want a normal Raven tank (xl boost/amp/3-4 hard), for others, you won't need any tank with 2 ships, but in any case, you will need less tank than you would need solo. Think of dual accounts as a strong gank tank ship, and fit accordingly.
I guess there is only one way to find out. heh thx
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.15 02:01:00 -
[23]
I use one character in a active-tank cruise CNR for gank and another in a passive nighthawk for tank.
I warp in with the nighthawk first and grab aggro and then bring in the CNR to kill the big stuff while the nighthawk takes out the smaller ships. The nighthawk character also has good leadership skills which boost my shields and speed.
It works great for me.
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