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Eve PVP- where is it headed? You tell me....

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Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Arctur Ceti Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'll adapt and inflict pain and misery on carebears regardless of what CCP does until they remove nonconsentual PVP completely. That's your problem right there. This isn't the game you think it is. Care to fill in some details? What game is it exactly? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Ebodhisatva Quote: The upcoming web nerf: few ships will be able to fit more than one web, or both web and 9km scram at the same time. Targets will MWD, AB or simply float back to gates and jump out, escaping destruction. More targets escape. IIRC the scram has changed also: If you are scrammed, you will not be able to use your MWD. (not that this differs to the OP's subject) Um, what? I just said that. Solo PVPers will need both a web and a 9km scram (in addition to a 24km point) to stop MWD ships from escaping, by deactivating their MWD and then webbing them to 50%. If they have an AB, they'll escape regardless. 2xwebs really tbh SKUNK
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:15:00 - [33] Nonconsensual combat usually is only valid in an situation where one of the parties is inexperienced. With experienced players, they often know the risks, and know how to assess and avoid the risks. Most fights there are at least semi-consensual. CCP's goal is to provide an interesting PvP experience to as many players as possible. Interesting PvP experiences are usually those where the choices you make can actually influence the outcome (usually escape in non-consensual combat, rarely victory). Hence CCP continually tries to buff options that give targets of non-consensual PvP more options (to escape or prevail through reinforcements). This should also strive to make things more interesting for the attackers, since the outcome is less predetermined at the time the engagement starts. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:15:00 - [34] Quote: Rigs are introduced: peak tank DPS and static HP skyrocket, peak speeds go insane, peak DPS remain static. More targets escape destruction. How about you just fit some gun/missile rigs then... For web..targets will MWD? How..with the scrambled MWD that doesnt work? Go back and study on your homework. You have plenty of other flaws aswell. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Fedor Emilianenko	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:15:00 - [35] Killing untanked Furbs is easy too I imagine. Damn, the character assassination style of personal attack seems infectious.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Tippia rigs also introduced ways of boosting your DPS, and the upcoming "nerfs" also boost a number of previously useless combat ships. The dps rigs are in general not really worth it with the penalties they get and the stacking penalties. The upcoming nerfs make more ships/setup worthless than it boosts. Originally by: Vladimir Griftin All the hitpoint buffs and damage nerfs did was make fights last longer. Thats a GOOD thing, longer fights = more room for tactical gameplay. Your looking at the web nerf the wrong way, the nano nerf is actually designed to get you MORE fights. It stops people running away at ludicrous uncatchable speeds. More hp does not equal longer fights, only more time to dock/jump etc. The nano nerf gets you fewer fights, not more. They will just be more careful about when they engage. Vote against the nano nerf!
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:17:00 - [37] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 11/08/2008 11:18:10 CCP is a business and will pander to the side of eve that makes more money, regardless of forum presence. EVE is (guessing) 60% isk farmers 30% carebears 10% PVPers :\ www.siigarikitawa.com
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Arctur Ceti Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'll adapt and inflict pain and misery on carebears regardless of what CCP does until they remove nonconsentual PVP completely. That's your problem right there. This isn't the game you think it is. Care to fill in some details? What game is it exactly? His fun dervies from making others miserable. Looks like he's in init for the grief. CCP has been clear on their griefing policy for some time now. No misery and pain on others kills his fun. This isn't his game.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:18:00 - [39] Originally by: Furb Killer He is only looking at ganking unarmed or totally outgunned targets, he isnt looking at 'fair' fights. Sure if you just want easy kills you dont like more HP, i personally prefer a real fight where both sides get kills or in a 1v1 where both sides end in hull than easy kills. Then i really enjoy longer fights alot more than dieing in seconds. No, I'm not. The first thing people like yourself do is discount my position by implying that I'm not looking for 'real' PVP (whatever that is). This is what is known as setting up a Straw Man argument, which is only done by people who are generally large piles of shit. Now that that is out of the way, I enjoy longer fights as well, but the coming changes arn't going to help anyone get into longer fights. The fights will be over as soon as the agressor loses lock as the target jumps back through a gate. CCP could compensate for this by locking players out of jumping back through the same gate for 120 seconds (two minutes) or doing the same for stations as well to compensate for the lack of webbing and make players commit to an action. But of course this won't happen. Note in my post that I said this affects all PVPers, regardless of what style or form of PVP they partake in. I specifically said this so @ssholes like yourself wouldn't make personal attacks and accuse me straight away of 'not knowing how to PVP' or 'only looking for easy ganks'. Anyone who says such a thing clearly doesn't know WTF they're talking about. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:19:00 - [40] Quote: One of the main reasons that high sec ganking has become so popular is that it's the only way for attackers to access the ISK rich targets that never ever stray into their combat environment for any reason. They're not even able to be war decced the majority of the time due to NPC corps. Eitehr you are just whining without a clue. Because you want riskfree juicy target in highsec where others dont touch you. So who got the risk now? Also you obviously dont know the risk in trading and such. You think marketmanipulation and production is pure risk free? Do you think they are all so ISK loaded they can buy anything? Oh boy you are clueless. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry

Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Arctur Ceti Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'll adapt and inflict pain and misery on carebears regardless of what CCP does until they remove nonconsentual PVP completely. That's your problem right there. This isn't the game you think it is. This is EVE, the game I was told years ago that I could do almost anything I wanted. Well that's getting harder and harder nowadays. I don't know what to make of the web nerf tbh. Lowsec gate camping is gonna be extremely difficult to stop a ship MWDing back to the gate. Infact it will be next to impossible to stop if they are prepared. But this might be a blessing forcing people to actually do some real PVP as I'm utterly bored of gate camping trying to find some PVP. Also - I agree totally that this game is going the way of the carebear and anyone who can't see it is probably a carebear.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Shintai Quote: Rigs are introduced: peak tank DPS and static HP skyrocket, peak speeds go insane, peak DPS remain static. More targets escape destruction. How about you just fit some gun/missile rigs then... For web..targets will MWD? How..with the scrambled MWD that doesnt work? Go back and study on your homework. You have plenty of other flaws aswell. Target uncloaks 15 km from gate... this is outside of your scram range baring having a lachesis there. So you bring a lachesis. Target has warpcore stabs, so you need a hic. So you bring a broadsword. Lachesis has weak tank vs sentries. So you bring a remote rep bs. You also need some DPS. So you bring a DPS BS. People like to hotdrop your ass So you bring a falcon Now youve got 5 dudes needed to camp. You get called blobbing pirates and come out to 0.0 and fight like a real man etc. LOLOLOL SKUNK
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:20:00 - [43] How is that pvp on easy mode? It isnt like we are somewhere in middle of 0.0 where everyone arround us is blue and once in a while we do some pos busting. I got enough solo kills, allthough lately and having been in militia too many were in fleets. But when enemy also has a similar fleet it can show as 20 vs 1 kill, but we also had 20 of them firing on us. Not to mention the absolute requirement to be able to do small scale pvp according to many here, the nano ship, makes sure i miss alot of kills. Last fight i got was harbinger vs ishtar, i ended in hull, he ended in warp since there is no way i can kill a nano ship alone.
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Shintai Quote: Rigs are introduced: peak tank DPS and static HP skyrocket, peak speeds go insane, peak DPS remain static. More targets escape destruction. How about you just fit some gun/missile rigs then... For web..targets will MWD? How..with the scrambled MWD that doesnt work? Go back and study on your homework. You have plenty of other flaws aswell. unplug your keyboard
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Arctur Ceti Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Arctur Ceti Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'll adapt and inflict pain and misery on carebears regardless of what CCP does until they remove nonconsentual PVP completely. That's your problem right there. This isn't the game you think it is. Care to fill in some details? What game is it exactly? His fun dervies from making others miserable. Looks like he's in init for the grief. CCP has been clear on their griefing policy for some time now. No misery and pain on others kills his fun. This isn't his game. I like making ISK. If I happen to specialize in turning carebear blood into ISK, then so be it. There is no such thing as 'griefing' in Eve. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:21:00 - [46] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Everyone has the exact same opportunity to kill everyone else. That's what makes Eve such a great game. If I wanted safety and boredom, I'd go play WoW. I hate WoW. WoW ****ing sucks. Why? Because all the stupid people can do just as well as all the really smart people. Why? Because it's too simple and easy. Bolded important part. Many people forget that the majority of the MMO folks are ones that want to build something. It is the same as real life actualy. You can't change human nature. Destruction is easy compared to creation. That's why people are risk averse. It takes longer to gain something than to loose. What CCP is doing is just to give everybody about the same fighting chance. Even the inexperienced have more time to react and more options to respond. Not just "Oh F<BOOM>". Go play some FPS if you want instant PvP without restrictions. An RPG is not the correct game type for that. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Shintai Quote: Rigs are introduced: peak tank DPS and static HP skyrocket, peak speeds go insane, peak DPS remain static. More targets escape destruction. How about you just fit some gun/missile rigs then... For web..targets will MWD? How..with the scrambled MWD that doesnt work? Go back and study on your homework. You have plenty of other flaws aswell. unplug your keyboard How about you do us all a favour and try it first. And read the upcoming changes. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:22:00 - [48] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 11/08/2008 11:23:20 Originally by: Arctur Ceti Originally by: Bellum Eternus So here I am, cruising along in high sec looking for untanked AFK haulers to kill... Have you tried other forms of PVP besides ganking untanked AFK haulers in hi sec? I hear in low sec there's plenty of PVP to be had. Are you quite deaf and blind? He is not talking about suicide ganking, he is talking about the overall direction of the entirety of the gameplay. Originally by: Tippia rigs also introduced ways of boosting your DPS. damage rigs are mostly useless due to the drawbacks.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Um, what? I just said that. Solo PVPers will need both a web and a 9km scram (in addition to a 24km point) to stop MWD ships from escaping, by deactivating their MWD and then webbing them to 50%. If they have an AB, they'll escape regardless. You're still talking about being caught at a gate, here, I presume?
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Furb Killer He is only looking at ganking unarmed or totally outgunned targets, he isnt looking at 'fair' fights. Sure if you just want easy kills you dont like more HP, i personally prefer a real fight where both sides get kills or in a 1v1 where both sides end in hull than easy kills. Then i really enjoy longer fights alot more than dieing in seconds. No, I'm not. The first thing people like yourself do is discount my position by implying that I'm not looking for 'real' PVP (whatever that is). This is what is known as setting up a Straw Man argument, which is only done by people who are generally large piles of shit. Now that that is out of the way, I enjoy longer fights as well, but the coming changes arn't going to help anyone get into longer fights. The fights will be over as soon as the agressor loses lock as the target jumps back through a gate. CCP could compensate for this by locking players out of jumping back through the same gate for 120 seconds (two minutes) or doing the same for stations as well to compensate for the lack of webbing and make players commit to an action. But of course this won't happen. Note in my post that I said this affects all PVPers, regardless of what style or form of PVP they partake in. I specifically said this so @ssholes like yourself wouldn't make personal attacks and accuse me straight away of 'not knowing how to PVP' or 'only looking for easy ganks'. Anyone who says such a thing clearly doesn't know WTF they're talking about. I said real fights, not real pvp. But changing what i said makes it much easier to set up a straw man argument i suppose. So again, the problem is that you totally outgun your opponent, otherwise he wouldnt run but fight. (btw i thought that not being able to run when totally outgunned with nano nerf was what was going to kill pvp and we had to whine about). Or just make them initiate self destruct when you come withing 30km of their ship, even easier... Again, i never said you didnt know how to pvp, again you are accusing me of stuff i never said. This indeed affects me when pvp'ing also. In a positive way...

Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:25:00 - [51] Originally by: Furb Killer He is only looking at ganking unarmed or totally outgunned targets, he isnt looking at 'fair' fights. Sure if you just want easy kills you dont like more HP, i personally prefer a real fight where both sides get kills or in a 1v1 where both sides end in hull than easy kills. Then i really enjoy longer fights alot more than dieing in seconds. Do you PvP much? I fly more and more full out gank ships. Do you care to know why? Simple. A ship which takes a minute or more to gank a ship of its size generally gets ganked a ton when soloing, because support has time to arrive from the neighboring system and gank you. HP buffs/slowing down fights/WTZ for fast travel/lowering damage while boosting EHP and tank with rigs all had the effect of promoting very fun and skilled bait and blob tactics. Sure, I enjoy a tactical 1v1, but I prefer to gank the target in 30s flat in a paper-thin ship because that way I have a chance to kill the target (or die) without his mates hopping in from the system nextdoor. The reality of PvP is that the more time your target has to live, the more likely you are to get jumped by the guy's mates, which promotes the skillfull 1v1s you're talking about, right? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Shintai Quote: Rigs are introduced: peak tank DPS and static HP skyrocket, peak speeds go insane, peak DPS remain static. More targets escape destruction. How about you just fit some gun/missile rigs then... For web..targets will MWD? How..with the scrambled MWD that doesnt work? Go back and study on your homework. You have plenty of other flaws aswell. unplug your keyboard How about you do us all a favour and try it first. And read the upcoming changes. He's trying to do you a favor by keeping you from showing everyone just how much of a f#ckup you really are. Pat him on the back for trying to help. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:26:00 - [53] Originally by: Bellum Eternus There is no such thing as 'griefing' in Eve. And as long as you continue believing that you'll be miserable with Eve's direction. That is your problem right there. Again, this isn't the game you think it is.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Merdaneth CCP's goal is to provide an interesting PvP experience to as many players as possible. Interesting PvP experiences are usually those where the choices you make can actually influence the outcome (usually escape in non-consensual combat, rarely victory). Hence CCP continually tries to buff options that give targets of non-consensual PvP more options (to escape or prevail through reinforcements). This is the important part. Also note CCP nerfs the options to escape consensual combat this very moment. The "piwate whiners" are right though that there are no incentives for many people to engage in PvP. Ganking defenseless targets will not help this issue though.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:28:00 - [55] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Furb Killer He is only looking at ganking unarmed or totally outgunned targets, he isnt looking at 'fair' fights. Sure if you just want easy kills you dont like more HP, i personally prefer a real fight where both sides get kills or in a 1v1 where both sides end in hull than easy kills. Then i really enjoy longer fights alot more than dieing in seconds. Do you PvP much? I fly more and more full out gank ships. Do you care to know why? Simple. A ship which takes a minute or more to gank a ship of its size generally gets ganked a ton when soloing, because support has time to arrive from the neighboring system and gank you. HP buffs/slowing down fights/WTZ for fast travel/lowering damage while boosting EHP and tank with rigs all had the effect of promoting very fun and skilled bait and blob tactics. Sure, I enjoy a tactical 1v1, but I prefer to gank the target in 30s flat in a paper-thin ship because that way I have a chance to kill the target (or die) without his mates hopping in from the system nextdoor. The reality of PvP is that the more time your target has to live, the more likely you are to get jumped by the guy's mates, which promotes the skillfull 1v1s you're talking about, right? No shit, in a fight it is always watching local when his friends arrive, but even in best case it will take them at least 1 minute to arrive, which is assuming they were allready in pvp ships in system next door and alligned to right gate.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Furb Killer How is that pvp on easy mode? It isnt like we are somewhere in middle of 0.0 where everyone arround us is blue and once in a while we do some pos busting. I got enough solo kills, allthough lately and having been in militia too many were in fleets. But when enemy also has a similar fleet it can show as 20 vs 1 kill, but we also had 20 of them firing on us. Not to mention the absolute requirement to be able to do small scale pvp according to many here, the nano ship, makes sure i miss alot of kills. Last fight i got was harbinger vs ishtar, i ended in hull, he ended in warp since there is no way i can kill a nano ship alone. Why is 0.0 pvp on easy mode. Well briefly 1) No sentry guns. This enables you to use the full range of ships and fittings the game provides. 2) No sec drops - you can pirate under the NBSI cop out all you want and still get into hig sec when you need to churn through some lv4s. There is no consequences for your action and you dont have to stand by your decisions 3)Bubbles - The ultimate in no skill pvp. 4) FC Drone Bay - when the blobs form up - your an extended drone bay for the FC. No initiative is needed. No skill is needed. No thought is needed. Warp to where the fc says, shoot at what the fc says, retreat when the fc says. 5)Epic Lag - the only thing hard about 0.0 pvp is putting up with lag - and the amount of 0.0ers that put up with epic lag fests again and again and again shows truely how brain dead they are. SKUNK
ArmyOfMe Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:30:00 - [57] eve pvp is headed towards 0,0 only sadly. almost every nerf in pvp boosts larger blobs and alliances in 0,0 while killing piracy one step at a time
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:30:00 - [58] Originally by: Furb Killer So again, the problem is that you totally outgun your opponent, otherwise he wouldnt run but fight. (btw i thought that not being able to run when totally outgunned with nano nerf was what was going to kill pvp and we had to whine about). In the EVE i play people must be tricked into attacking if they dont outgun you. There is no such thing as fair fights. Vote against the nano nerf!
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:30:00 - [59] What i really like to know, there seems to be two opinions here: Eve is going to die/suck because people cant escape from blobs. In other words: Nanos cant escape when jumping into a larger fleet. Eve is going to die/suck because people can escape non consensual combat. In other words: Ships can escape when jumping into a larger fleet (or at least when they are outgunned). I like to know which one exactly is the reason eve is going to die/suck.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:33:00 - [60] Originally by: Furb Killer What i really like to know, there seems to be two opinions here: Eve is going to die/suck because people cant escape from blobs. In other words: Nanos cant escape when jumping into a larger fleet. Eve is going to die/suck because people can escape non consensual combat. In other words: Ships can escape when jumping into a larger fleet (or at least when they are outgunned). I like to know which one exactly is the reason eve is going to die/suck. /thread and sig material --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !



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