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Talo Momoe
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Talo Momoe on 11/08/2008 19:18:52 It's been quite some time since I've seen any fresh discussion of IGB development. I like the concept, and I applaud the attempt to implement it. I'd like to see it get some attention, but as far as I can tell, it's basically of no priority, right now. It's not something CCP could really remove from the game, but it also doesn't seem to be getting any development effort. Of highest priority, in my opinion, is the implementation of cookies. I think it could be an easy win for someone at CCP to knock out. Having said that, I also know all too well (and personally) the reluctance of developers to pick up an old, stagnant project. I can't speak to the quality of the implementation, beyond empirical observations from the consumer side, but if it's "ugly" code, that makes developers all the more loath to address it.
Regardless, the IGB is an important component of a game that benefits greatly from community development. The sheer amount of data in EVE calls for extensive tools to manage that data. The community can provide those tools, but we need some hooks. The data dump is the most critical hook, and I'm pleased that CCP have put the effort into it, of late, to make it available to us, especially as they are under no obligation to do so. I'd like to see the IGB be the next effort to assist the community in enriching EVE.
I would even countenance the removal of the IGB if there were some out-of-game mechanism for authenticating pilots and retrieving some basic details about them. That's a can of worms that merits its own discussion in another thread. The point is that the IGB provides a limited but important means of pilot identification, and I'd like to see that means enhanced.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:39:00 -
[2]
I think they should take KHTML and impliment that. It's already probably the most standards compliant engine out there, possibly along with Opera (which might make another good choice).
I think everyone will applaud the use of a real browser inside the game, for things like corp web-pages and forums, asset tracking, starbase management, not forgetting of course the old eve-o forums.
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Talo Momoe
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I think everyone will applaud the use of a real browser inside the game, for things like corp web-pages and forums, asset tracking, starbase management, not forgetting of course the old eve-o forums.
It would be nice, I suppose, to have a full-fledged modern browser in-game. However, that's more of a convenience than a technological necessity. My interest lies in having a mechanism for providing community content and functionality that can rely on the IGB as a form of authentication. Yes, we all know that HTTP headers can be faked to spoof the current authentication. Part of the enhancement I'd like, indeed the reason I place such priority on cookies, is the ability better to rely on the information provided by the IGB. Were we able to authenticate a user against our own data from inside the IGB, we could trust the header data (provided we determined our own data to be reliable in the first place). Currently, we cannot do so.
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BigWhale
Gallente Three WiseMen Association
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Posted - 2008.08.11 20:08:00 -
[4]
I'd just remove it from the game. Completely. -- R, U & Y are letters, not words... |
Immersive
Immersive Technology Solutions
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Posted - 2008.08.12 03:12:00 -
[5]
HTML4 and CSS compliant.
That's all it needs, imho. --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML
It's coming...
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Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.12 07:36:00 -
[6]
They've already said that they are working on a big update to the IGB. When it's going to be released though, I have no idea. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.12 21:02:00 -
[7]
Main problem is not the HTML parsing, it is the DirectX rendering. I do not know about any engine capable of rendering text in D3D environment.
Originally by: BigWhale I'd just remove it from the game. Completely.
That said, you are going to remove mission briefings? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.08.13 19:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ambo They've already said that they are working on a big update to the IGB. When it's going to be released though, I have no idea.
They said they're removing it and replacing it with something else, quite possibly the something else will just be for mission briefings etc, and we will lose the IGB alltogether.
Which isn't a big loss IMO, currently it's so far behind what you can do with a vanilla browser most people I know play windowed and just use a real browser. The IGB authentication as it stands is only useful when you don't care if the person is who they say they are etc. There is a way to authenticate a user is who they say they are, but it involves a long drawn out process involving sending isk ingame with a description, and then reading that back out via the API.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Immersive HTML4 and CSS compliant.
That's all it needs, imho.
Indeed. |
Beseiged
Minmatar Rim Collection RC Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 18:31:00 -
[10]
I'll cry if they remove the IGB. I don't care if they come out with a new way of showing missions briefings, but a lot of people have put time into making IGB materials. |
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.21 00:03:00 -
[11]
I don't believe for a second that CCP removes the IGB.
The main drawback it has over real browsers is lack of javascript which is needed by many sites. And that is on purpose - they said ages ago that they will never support scripting within IGB and that makes sense for security reasons but also to not enable farmers even more.
There is no way to ensure a request comes from a given eve client. It's in the nature of HTML request "pages" that it's just text and all of it can be faked easily with a bit of knowledge. Additional authentication (e.g. pasword) is needed to have a real secure site - and while that's slightly inconvenient it's also easy.
A "cookie" is also already trivial to implement - just use a table in server side database with charid as a key - voila - you can remember all sorts of about a users preferences or whatever.
OOG browser can't replace IGB.
Hi Talo :-)
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EveHomePage
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:51:00 -
[12]
I would really like to know how to have the IGB update on both a Session Change and periodically on a timer. GM Traveler alluded to the ability to do both but I've been unable to implement it. I couldn't imagine that it would be too hard to add this feature.
See: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851214 |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:39:00 -
[13]
Easy: http://wiki.eve-id.net/IGB_Documentation#Automatic_Refreshing
Alternatively <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5" /> at begin of HTML page. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Talo Momoe
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Glengrant A "cookie" is also already trivial to implement - just use a table in server side database with charid as a key - voila - you can remember all sorts of about a users preferences or whatever.
Except that there's no way to make that data submit back on a subsequent request without appending it to a query string or making it a hidden parameter on a form. Yes, this can be done, and it's what I do, but cookies would be cleaner, and we'd be able to take advantage of automatic session timeouts when the browser closes or leaves the site.
Originally by: Glengrant Hi Talo :-)
Hey bud :)
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Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: BigWhale I'd just remove it from the game. Completely.
Not gonna happen. And not just because it sucks, but because the entire game revolves around it. Guess what you're looking at when you talk to an agent? It's a web browser. The agent conversation takes place through an ASP page which carries session information on the query string. I don't know exactly how much of the game uses HTTP, but it's not like they can just unplug it.
Originally by: "Bellum Eternus" Is 'speed tank' code for 'completely invulnerable'?
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EveHomePage
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Posted - 2008.08.22 02:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Glengrant Easy: http://wiki.eve-id.net/IGB_Documentation#Automatic_Refreshing
I wish it was that easy. When I copied the code they gave it didn't work, only the second header command would take effect.
Quote: <? header('refresh:300;URL='.$_SERVER['PHP_SELF']); header('refresh:sessionchange;URL='.$_SERVER['PHP_SELF']); ?>
After a packet capture I discovered that the server (php 5.2.5) only sent back one header, whichever of the commands was last. Reading the documentation I added a second argument of 'false' and this is what my packet capture showed:
Quote: refresh: 60;URL=/evetest.php, sessionchange;URL=/evetest.php
Unfortuantely with that change the browser did not automatically refresh either way!
I have even tried a header refresh on sessionchange, and a meta tag on a number of seconds but only the sessionchange one takes effect.
Has anyone actually gotten it to work on both methods, sessionchange and number of seconds???
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Beseiged
Minmatar Rim Collection RC Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 19:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Glengrant Edited by: Glengrant on 21/08/2008 00:08:44 I don't believe for a second that CCP removes the IGB.
I'd still like to hear from a GM telling me that it's not going to happen... For any IGB developers this well is sorta demotivating to hear, even if it isn't true. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.27 01:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: EveHomePage
Originally by: Glengrant Easy: http://wiki.eve-id.net/IGB_Documentation#Automatic_Refreshing
I wish it was that easy. When I copied the code they gave it didn't work, only the second header command would take effect.
Quote: <? header('refresh:300;URL='.$_SERVER['PHP_SELF']); header('refresh:sessionchange;URL='.$_SERVER['PHP_SELF']); ?>
After a packet capture I discovered that the server (php 5.2.5) only sent back one header, whichever of the commands was last. Reading the documentation I added a second argument of 'false' and this is what my packet capture showed:
Quote: refresh: 60;URL=/evetest.php, sessionchange;URL=/evetest.php
Unfortuantely with that change the browser did not automatically refresh either way!
I have even tried a header refresh on sessionchange, and a meta tag on a number of seconds but only the sessionchange one takes effect.
Has anyone actually gotten it to work on both methods, sessionchange and number of seconds???
You should choose one of these two ways, I think. And IGB window must be opened with that page loaded. And write code properly, of course. "<?php" instead of "<?"
Originally by: Talo Momoe
Originally by: Glengrant A "cookie" is also already trivial to implement - just use a table in server side database with charid as a key - voila - you can remember all sorts of about a users preferences or whatever.
Except that there's no way to make that data submit back on a subsequent request without appending it to a query string or making it a hidden parameter on a form.
Why not use COOKIES, tell me? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.27 01:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Beseiged I'd still like to hear from a GM telling me that it's not going to happen... For any IGB developers this well is sorta demotivating to hear, even if it isn't true.
GMs don't know that, unless it is published on EVE website, so you would know it eighter. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Talo Momoe
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 18:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Talo Momoe on 02/09/2008 18:18:33
Originally by: Tonto Auri Why not use COOKIES, tell me?
Cookies do not currently work in the IGB at all.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.03 09:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Talo Momoe Edited by: Talo Momoe on 02/09/2008 18:18:33
Originally by: Tonto Auri Why not use COOKIES, tell me?
Cookies do not currently work in the IGB at all.
Since when? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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