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Steel Machine
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Posted - 2008.08.15 04:50:00 -
[1]
Probably a stupid question but does training skills like Armor Compensation (EM, Thermal, Kinetic, Explosive) have any effect on the resistance bonuses DCU's give you? For that matter I guess does Shield Compensation have an effect as well since DCU's give you a bonus to both. |
Hoshi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.15 07:01:00 -
[2]
The skills in question only effects passive hardeners (or active hardeners while they are off) Problem is that having those skills effect a DCU while it's not on would make it have better resists while off than while on. So no those skill do not effect the DCU. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Avenging United
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Posted - 2008.08.15 13:33:00 -
[3]
DCU is an active module, so nope.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:49:00 -
[4]
While a DCU doesn't get the benifit of the Compensations skills, it does benifit from the fact that it does not suffer from stacking penalties like all other hardeners.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.16 02:31:00 -
[5]
DCUs are very popular on pvp buffer tanks. Not so popular in pve, but not entirely useless there either.
Usually in pve, you would be better off with another hardener, or damage mod or PDU, etc. Although good argument can be made that folks flying their first battleship can get good use from a DCU.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.17 02:57:00 -
[6]
DCUs add a nice shield & armor bonus which doesn't stack with regular hardeners, and the hull resist can make the difference between living and dying in a pinch (usually a disconnect or something). That said, as already remarked, it's more relevant in PvP than PvE.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.17 06:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Durzel That said, as already remarked, it's more relevant in PvP than PvE.
Indeed. A DC can make all the difference between flying home in a flaming wreck or flying home in your pod. Just don't dock till someone remote reps you if your into hull or you might not get back out if the station has no repair service.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Dust Rocket
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Posted - 2008.08.17 10:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Durzel That said, as already remarked, it's more relevant in PvP than PvE.
Indeed. A DC can make all the difference between flying home in a flaming wreck or flying home in your pod. Just don't dock till someone remote reps you if your into hull or you might not get back out if the station has no repair service.
Tho u can get out if u fit bulkheads and armorplates on ur flaming boat
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Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.17 13:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Steel Machine Probably a stupid question but does training skills like Armor Compensation (EM, Thermal, Kinetic, Explosive) have any effect on the resistance bonuses DCU's give you? For that matter I guess does Shield Compensation have an effect as well since DCU's give you a bonus to both.
It does not but it is still a good idea to train them. because shit happens. If you get hit by a neut and your hardeners turn off you will be much less annyoed when you are getting a 9% resist bonus over the 1%,
Also I'm not sure but I think the passive resists are added onto when you activate the hardener |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.08.17 18:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Steel Machine Probably a stupid question but does training skills like Armor Compensation (EM, Thermal, Kinetic, Explosive) have any effect on the resistance bonuses DCU's give you? For that matter I guess does Shield Compensation have an effect as well since DCU's give you a bonus to both.
yes, that is a stupid question.
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2008.08.18 03:32:00 -
[11]
So....
What if I have an EM 2 shield hardener for 50% (?) and I turn on my DC 2???
What am i at???
OR....
I have a passive amp 2 at 37.5% (?) plus shield comp at 5, so multiply 1.25 = 48 ish % AND then I turn on my DC 2?????
Now what am I tanking?????
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2008.08.19 00:23:00 -
[12]
Bump |
Hesod Adee
Militants of Xen
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Posted - 2008.08.19 04:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dust Rocket
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Durzel That said, as already remarked, it's more relevant in PvP than PvE.
Indeed. A DC can make all the difference between flying home in a flaming wreck or flying home in your pod. Just don't dock till someone remote reps you if your into hull or you might not get back out if the station has no repair service.
Tho u can get out if u fit bulkheads and armorplates on ur flaming boat
If there are some in stock, or your in a position to buy them. CCP really needs to fix that bug. |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.19 11:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 19/08/2008 11:21:35
Originally by: Nuthyn So.... What if I have an EM 2 shield hardener for 50% (?) and I turn on my DC 2??? What am i at??? OR.... I have a passive amp 2 at 37.5% (?) plus shield comp at 5, so multiply 1.25 = 48 ish % AND then I turn on my DC 2????? Now what am I tanking?????
It all gets easy when you realize that resistance bonus is the amount incoming damage gets reduced by.
Case A, active shield hardener (50%) + DC (12.5%) Incomind damage (100) gets reduced by hardener, so 100-(100*0.5) = 50% raw incoming DPS left. Then remaining damage gets reduced by DC, so 50-(50*0.125) = 43.75% of raw incoming DPS is applied.
Case B, passive hardener (37.5%) + compensation skill at 5 + DC (12.5%) Exactly the same: 100-(100*(0.375*1.25)) = 53.125% after hardener, 53.125-(53.125*0.125)= 46.48% of raw incoming DPS is applied.
So you will have 46.48/43.75 = 1.062, so 6.2% more damage coming at you if you use skilled-up passive hardener instead of active one.
OFC passive hardener uses no cap and requires less fitting, while active one can be overheated (and gives 55% in T2 version). |
Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.19 12:39:00 -
[15]
More often than not, a DCU is a "fit-this-first-before-anything-else" mod for many ships out there, especially when talking about PvP. DCU's are perfect for upping the resists from lolresists to usable ones. |
Jelryn Talmon
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Posted - 2008.08.19 13:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ekrid
Originally by: Steel Machine Probably a stupid question but does training skills like Armor Compensation (EM, Thermal, Kinetic, Explosive) have any effect on the resistance bonuses DCU's give you? For that matter I guess does Shield Compensation have an effect as well since DCU's give you a bonus to both.
yes, that is a stupid question.
Stupid answer of the day! Give the idiot a prize!
We were all inexperienced once. |
Balcura
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Posted - 2008.08.22 20:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 19/08/2008 11:21:35
Originally by: Nuthyn So.... What if I have an EM 2 shield hardener for 50% (?) and I turn on my DC 2??? What am i at??? OR.... I have a passive amp 2 at 37.5% (?) plus shield comp at 5, so multiply 1.25 = 48 ish % AND then I turn on my DC 2????? Now what am I tanking?????
It all gets easy when you realize that resistance bonus is the amount incoming damage gets reduced by.
Case A, active shield hardener (50%) + DC (12.5%) Incomind damage (100) gets reduced by hardener, so 100-(100*0.5) = 50% raw incoming DPS left. Then remaining damage gets reduced by DC, so 50-(50*0.125) = 43.75% of raw incoming DPS is applied.
Case B, passive hardener (37.5%) + compensation skill at 5 + DC (12.5%) Exactly the same: 100-(100*(0.375*1.25)) = 53.125% after hardener, 53.125-(53.125*0.125)= 46.48% of raw incoming DPS is applied.
So you will have 46.48/43.75 = 1.062, so 6.2% more damage coming at you if you use skilled-up passive hardener instead of active one.
OFC passive hardener uses no cap and requires less fitting, while active one can be overheated (and gives 55% in T2 version).
Resistance math dosn't exactly work that way... so here's my attemp at it: 100% max resist - 0% EM shield resist base * 1 tech 1 50% hardner = 50% EM resist then take 100% - the 50% current base resist * the second 50% hardner (*.87 for a stacking penality)= 71.75% resist 100% - 71.75% + 15% (DC II) = 75.99% EM resist or
Passive is 46.875 with the comp skill to 5 on a tech 2 passive. The EM resist will be lower, but no cap will be consumed and you are NOS/Neut prof on hardners.
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Mirei Jun
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Posted - 2008.08.25 06:00:00 -
[18]
There is one thing I don't think was mentioned here. Damage Controls have a massive effect on how much hull damamge you take. Since a classic noob mistake is to get in way over your head in missions this can really be a life saver. I know I barely made it out of a few level 4s with less then 25% hull during my first months. Thank you Damage Control!
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Salpad
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mirei Jun There is one thing I don't think was mentioned here. Damage Controls have a massive effect on how much hull damamge you take. Since a classic noob mistake is to get in way over your head in missions this can really be a life saver. I know I barely made it out of a few level 4s with less then 25% hull during my first months. Thank you Damage Control!
On the other hand, if one has graduated from noobiness to become a semi-noob (like me), and if one is a shield tanker, the Damage Control module doesn't look attractive at all for PVE, since it has so little effect on shield resists.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.04 14:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mirei Jun There is one thing I don't think was mentioned here. Damage Controls have a massive effect on how much hull damamge you take. Since a classic noob mistake is to get in way over your head in missions this can really be a life saver. I know I barely made it out of a few level 4s with less then 25% hull during my first months. Thank you Damage Control!
Actually, I did say that folks flying their first Battleship can sometimes get good use from a DCU in PvE. Was thinking of precisely the sort of thing you described.
Having said that, once a player understands what he will be facing on missions, DCUs become much less popular in PvE than additional hardeners, cap rechargers, etc.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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