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Enwyn
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Posted - 2008.08.15 09:47:00 -
[1]
Hi
Is it me or Destroyers (especially Cormorant) are total-useless-ships ??
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vostok
Minmatar Intrepid Proprietary Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.15 09:51:00 -
[2]
Fantastic antifrigate ships which is what they are meant for.
Especially good at killing speed tanks because those small guns can keep up with them quite easily.
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Evanga
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Posted - 2008.08.15 09:55:00 -
[3]
great salvagers!
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Enwyn
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Posted - 2008.08.15 09:55:00 -
[4]
And you use it for what ? lvl 1 missions or ratting >0.5 belts ? Because I cant imagine that ship in low sec.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.15 10:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 15/08/2008 10:01:37 Destroyers are very nice anti-ceptor and anti-drone platforms, which are rarely primaied and quite effective at hitting/killing those, and Cormorant is probably the best of those, considering its very good range and tracking.
Problem is, there are other ships that can make interceptors cry loud, and at the same time be useful for something else. Rapier can web them, eagle, muninn or beam zealot can shoot them down from sniping positions, a BS with heavy neut can make them cry too, and at the same time those ships can help the gang in many other tasks.
Thus, they are much more preferred over destroyers, which can fulfill only one role. Though I think this is quite fine, considering their value. I mean, there got to be some cheap, narrowly useful ships that starting players go for. Destroyer fills that role quite well.
If you redo T1 destroyers to have some highly valuable role, you'll have to rethink their material requirements too, I guess.
There were some very nice suggestions for other types of T2 destroiyers though - a cloaked ships scanner craft, in particular - that could be nice.
--- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.08.15 10:03:00 -
[6]
Destroyers are hairy manballs to be fair.
I talk to a few people who have excellent fitting and weapons skills who reckon they can make them work for this or that (anti-frigate work, high alpha on a disposable ship) but generally the concensus is that they are u/s.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.15 10:23:00 -
[7]
The tech 1 destroyers are easily the most underrated ships in Eve. I love them.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Burn Mac
Minmatar Burning Steel Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.15 11:13:00 -
[8]
I have used the thrasher in low sec multiple times fitted with 200 mm AC:s, you warp to a belt at 0 and most rifters that warp in to pwn you think that you have arties when you really have AC:s to pwn them in.
And ive eft:ed the catalyst it can get awesome dps.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.15 11:26:00 -
[9]
AC Thrasher is fun for cheap T1 frigate slaughtering, or wolfpacking (since thrashers are awesome sources of disposable DPS).
Artillery thrashers are loving all around, since they're, in fact, able to hit interceptors and stuff rather well.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Elurilmar
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Posted - 2008.08.15 11:41:00 -
[10]
I lost a caracal to a catalyst when I was new.
They are great for level 1 missions (basically for new players)
New Players see the bigger ship and go woooowww then they see cruisers and go wooowww. I'm just now getting in battleships and saying wow
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Yon Krum
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.08.15 11:46:00 -
[11]
Destroyers are highly underated.
They are also highly specialized and do poorly outside their role. In this respect, they are a less like frigates and cruisers and more like battlecruisers (low damage, high tank, warfare links).
Because it takes so very little to get into a destroyer, you usually see inexperienced pilots flying them. Experienced pilots can afford to fit T2 or good cruisers and tend to ignore the fragile but potent destroyer.
However, with good skills and equipment, it's not hard to make a fearsome dessie fit....
You'll never have one as tough as a cruiser, however. It would be nice to see a second model of Interdictor (or other T2 destroyer upgrade), that builds on their core strength (damage and tracking) and adds durability in a fleet environment. Additionally or alternately, a decloaking bubble (or webbing bubble) would be keen.
But yeah, destroyers are single-role vehicles. A side-path and not a primary upgrade from Frigates.
--Krum
--Krum |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.08.15 12:15:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ekrid on 15/08/2008 12:20:41 Well, given that their weapon system is the same as frigates, treat them like a slightly larger and slower frigate with range and tracking bonuses.
Treat them as able to kill frigates and drones, while still putting some decent DPS on larger ships. Thats how you succeed in them.
just considered them a frigate on steroids, and you will do fine. Trust me, they **** pretty well with T2 weapons and ammo. Cheap price too, compared to assault ships or inties. In fact you could consider that being so much cheaper, raping inties and other T2 frigs all day long with it makes a considerable number of people cry.
Yeah, and you know how many people say destroyers suck right?
Well, ironically, its the same number of people who have low navigation skills, low gunnery skills (Dont you think that with 8x turrets, you're going to see 8x the benefit from gunnery skills, and thus training them to a high degree is so much more powerful than for some silly 3-4 turret frig?), and low skill in the destroyer skill itself.
There's a reason the high end frigates require frigate L3.
If anyone here says destroyers suck, train up the all important nav skills, train up the gunnery skills to as good as you can (do it on sisi), and get your desy skill to L5, then we'll talk.
Alternatively, wait until the patch nerfs go through and battleships receive a huge mass increase effectively turning them into frozen cows in a blender in terms of alignment time. Destroyer won't look too bad for killing those tacklers then either.
You got a tackler problem? bring a destroyer. You got an ECM drone problem? bring a destroyer. you got a T2 frigate problem? bring a destroyer. You're going to a fleet cap fight? leave the destoyer at home.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.08.15 15:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Evanga great salvagers!
Yes, but paladin is better
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Ordon Gundar
Caldari Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.15 15:28:00 -
[14]
Destroyers blast through level one missions so quickly its embarrassing. The targets pop before you hear your guns firing sometimes.
The only problem is frigates can get too close, and there isnt enough speed in a Dessie to keep the distance easily. This requires some creative point-and-click flying (or a smart bomb!)
They are useful in a fleet as a disposable anti-frig platform, so keep one handy. Especially if you can T2 fit it, and afford to lose it.
Fly fast..Rats Die..Buy Low..Sell High- Ordon Gundar, CEO of Gundars Independent Traders - Space (G.I.T.S) |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ordon Gundar The only problem is frigates can get too close, and there isnt enough speed in a Dessie to keep the distance easily. This requires some creative point-and-click flying (or a smart bomb!)
Web?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Corstaad
Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.15 23:54:00 -
[16]
Yeow! Four hours from Dessie V and I don't think I'll fly the sabre much :/. The dessie if skilled and fitted right will melt most of the frig class.
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.15 23:59:00 -
[17]
We have destroyers in this game?
/me checks Item Database -> Ships -> Destroyers
Oh you mean the Coercer...it is wrongly categorized. This ship is really a salvager. ________________ Poor is the nation that has no heroes. Shameful is the one that, having heroes - Forgets them!
Author Unknown
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.16 00:10:00 -
[18]
i'm training destroyers lvl 5 right now...and then i will get my gunnery up alittle(they REALLY SUCK..have been spending to much time in a raven and drake) and then i think i might use one for firesupport in a frig gang.
PS: the Coercer do not suck...you REALLY dont want to go up against one in a interceptor...the beam coercer turn a 40km sphere into a no-fly zone for interceptors... Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Enwyn
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Posted - 2008.08.16 01:02:00 -
[19]
Well, I have to re-think about Destroyers, now with all your feedback about this ship (thanks for that), maybe yes I'll train that skill to lvl5 and try to pop some poor frig , assuming I can reach any low sec without being killed in the first gate :p
/me need pvp training
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Meridius Dex
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.16 01:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw PS: the Coercer do not suck...you REALLY dont want to go up against one in a interceptor...the beam coercer turn a 40km sphere into a no-fly zone for interceptors...
Can you really get good enough tracking from beams to catch a high-speed intie? I haven't tried, but I know when I tried beams on my Crusader it sucked to hit anything.
/me sadly still doesn't completely, after ten months playing this game, understand how to figure the tracking percentages to hit with turrets. -- Meridius Dex --
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.16 01:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Meridius Dex
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw PS: the Coercer do not suck...you REALLY dont want to go up against one in a interceptor...the beam coercer turn a 40km sphere into a no-fly zone for interceptors...
Can you really get good enough tracking from beams to catch a high-speed intie? I haven't tried, but I know when I tried beams on my Crusader it sucked to hit anything.
/me sadly still doesn't completely, after ten months playing this game, understand how to figure the tracking percentages to hit with turrets.
All destroyers have 10% per level bonus to tracking speed for the destroyer skill. That's 50% faster tracking at level 5. Also, don't use tech 2 sniping ammo.
In fact, even an artillery Thrasher can track 15+ km/s interceptors orbiting at 20 km range, with the right fitting and good skills.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Chaos Incarnate
Has No Face
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Posted - 2008.08.16 01:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Enwyn Hi
Is it me or Destroyers (especially Cormorant) are total-useless-ships ??
In a destroyers or smaller fight, the destroyer will usually melt a few faces
Add in anything cruiser sized or bigger, and you're generally going to get very exploded very fast
Quote:
"Rabble Rabble Rabble!" "Just sitting out here saying "Rabble Rabble" isn't going to fix anything!" "But we don't know what else to do!" "Rabble Rabble Rabble!"
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.08.16 06:30:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ekrid on 16/08/2008 06:31:34
Originally by: Meridius Dex
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw PS: the Coercer do not suck...you REALLY dont want to go up against one in a interceptor...the beam coercer turn a 40km sphere into a no-fly zone for interceptors...
Can you really get good enough tracking from beams to catch a high-speed intie? I haven't tried, but I know when I tried beams on my Crusader it sucked to hit anything.
/me sadly still doesn't completely, after ten months playing this game, understand how to figure the tracking percentages to hit with turrets.
amazing, ten months and you didnt find this tracking guide. developed BY CCP to give you a quick and easy method for discovering your chance to hit, as well as the curvature of your hit and DPS ratio based on distance from your ship, gun tracking, enemy signature radius and transversal velocity, etc.
the only real problem with destroyers is that their role is easily supplanted by a cruiser using assault missile launchers, or any ship using 5x light combat drones.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.08.16 06:54:00 -
[24]
[T2 Fit Arty Thrasher of DOOM*]
Highs: 7x 250mm arty II with tremor Mids: 1x mwd II 1x warp dis II 1x web II Lows: 2x gyro II Rigs: None needed
With a super cheap 5% small projectile damage implant and destroyer 5 with level 4 support skills you can get a 14x damage mod and instapop pretty much anything thats a frigate. Also with the capless weapons you can permarun all the mids and orbit at nearly 2000ms. So get a pack of them together and wtfpwn pretty much any solo ship you might run across.
*AWU 5 required.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.08.16 08:41:00 -
[25]
I'd rather fly a Caracal for Anti-frigate work, but I've tried the Coercer in small gangs and it wtfpwns any frig unlucky enough to get webbed by your teammate or within range of your guns. _
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Enwyn Hi
Is it me or Destroyers (especially Cormorant) are total-useless-ships ??
yes it is just you, actually the cormorant is the ONLY viable destroyer for pvp, its actually is a spitting image of the harpy. with slightly less dps. but much more tracking. i beleive you get around 90 dps at around 90km. you wont miss either... and im too lazy to check the exact numbers...
but no. comorant is one of the best t1 ship out there that arent BS. if and when we screw around, cormorant is the ship i will fly _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:31:00 -
[27]
and yes the thrasher still kicks arse. but the cormorant imo is a little beter when it would come to proper pvp... not that someone would really choose to fly one.. cept me :P
gawd, they bash pods and intys fast tho :P _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Meridius Dex
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.16 13:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ekrid amazing, ten months and you didnt find this tracking guide. developed BY CCP to give you a quick and easy method for discovering your chance to hit, as well as the curvature of your hit and DPS ratio based on distance from your ship, gun tracking, enemy signature radius and transversal velocity, etc.
First off, that guide is neither quick nor easy to figure turret tracking versus speed. And I have read it dozens of times. It explains falloff, sig radius and transversal beautifully. But the last page on tracking doesn't have a simple formula to follow and the default examples don't help much.
I've yet to read a breakdown of turret tracking versus speed (the way I've seen ECM strength broken down to show the percentages of jamming success) in a simple and easy to understand manner. -- Meridius Dex --
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Dr Clay
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Posted - 2008.08.16 13:53:00 -
[29]
I remember a destroyer flying next to my Thorax, looked like he was parking or something, and he popped in about 5 seconds.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2008.08.16 14:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meridius Dex
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw PS: the Coercer do not suck...you REALLY dont want to go up against one in a interceptor...the beam coercer turn a 40km sphere into a no-fly zone for interceptors...
Can you really get good enough tracking from beams to catch a high-speed intie? I haven't tried, but I know when I tried beams on my Crusader it sucked to hit anything.
/me sadly still doesn't completely, after ten months playing this game, understand how to figure the tracking percentages to hit with turrets.
I use t2 pulses on my coercer for a 29km sphere of doom with much better tracking and I don't miss the extra 10km. l5 destroyer and l5 motion prediction help a lot. If they come closer or I expect them closer I use t1/navy for a little extra damage and even better tracking. t2 fit coercer really hurts, but it is a glass cannon.
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
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