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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Adaline Gray
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Posted - 2008.08.19 02:56:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
So how does CCP know when or if RL money changes hands? They can't actually prove RL money changed hands ever. It is impossible for them to know. So they just assume every single transaction is illegal without any proof. It is pretty insane if you ask me. |
Iroku Mata
Minmatar Endovelicus Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.19 03:14:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Ketch Kan
and no i will not name the alliance for who the isk was intended
That shows your word is nothing worth, all above is only excusses, you deserve to be banned of the game! BYE... have fun in AOC... |
Iroku Mata
Minmatar Endovelicus Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.19 03:16:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Labrat7
Originally by: 7sunami which very large alliance was renting out space to isk farmers? Curious minds like to know :)
It was BoB.
LOL... look how stupid you are... BoB is CCP dude, they can generate how much ISK they want to! |
AJ Scout
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.19 04:51:00 -
[94]
Edited by: AJ Scout on 19/08/2008 04:54:30
What proves Ketch is full of it is how many versions of the "story" he has put out.
The first story was he got isk from a isk resellers deposit account.
Now it is stolen isk from a deposit account of a very large alliance in which case they would NOT be selling isk for RL money with this account so there should be no link to isk sellers.
Then there is internally posted on Daisho forums it was his "wife" who gave him the isk from a BoB deposit account . . . So she runs this deposit account, she was not banned, she would have to sell the ISK for RL isk for Ketch to be banned and if it was my wife who was banned cause I gave her isk from a deposit account I think I would come out of the closest even if that meant me being removed from my current corp/alliance.
The fact there is more then one "story" little lone 3 proves he is guilty. |
Crotador
Minmatar The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.08.19 06:52:00 -
[95]
Doesn't take genius to work out who the alliance is. Question is... does that alliance want thier isk back? Are they going to give Daisho a kicking for it...
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Mynera Nic'Atoch
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 07:05:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Mynera Nic''Atoch on 19/08/2008 07:06:10 OK .. now I'm confused. If Katch was stealing isk from a 'large alliance' and got banned from the game because of the source of the isk - how many of the 'large alliance's' directors got banned from the game too?
This whole story smells of fish.
Myn |
Team leader
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Posted - 2008.08.19 07:08:00 -
[97]
well good work gm's at least ur not asleep... clamp down more on these isk farmer's aliance's keep up the good workv ....enjoy ur stay in eve is all i can say |
Pilot X
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Posted - 2008.08.19 07:08:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Mjabi Edited by: Mjabi on 18/08/2008 10:43:30
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Wait, so the guy didn't get the isk from isk sellers, he just stole it from someone elses account?
yeah that's a lot better, nice work
This is as I know it to be.
Someone (lets call him Pilot X) from the large Alliance was tasked with managing the isk that influxxed from renters and also the farmers in the Alliances regions.
Pilot X skimmed money of the top of this ISK. He gave a lump of his skimmed cash to Ketch, simply as a gift. Ketch knew it came from Renters to that other Alliance.
This money was added to Daisho Alliance funds and a Titan Purchased.
It was plain corp theft on behalf of Pilot X which as we know is celebrated in Eve and not against the EULA.
I was framed I say and deny any knowledge of said act or involvement ! |
Darriele
Minmatar Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.19 07:44:00 -
[99]
The way i see it: If CCP cannot provide real proofs that that isk has been bought using Real Money, then clearly the person in cause (the isk buying suspect) is inocent.
And sadly CCP cannot know who bought isk or who didnt.
My advice to Daisho is to make a legal action (consumer protection / or even in law court) against CCP if they consider that they suffered an abuse.
Afterall we pay for this game, so as customers we have our rights guaranteed by any decent country laws.
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128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:15:00 -
[100]
I dont know what the deal is with Daisho, but personally I feel very strongly about the fact that CCP needs to fix this problem. It is NOT the responsibility of the players to police the game even though CCP would like it to be.
I pay a hell of alot of money for 4 accounts and if they want to fix this issue they better hire some more personel instead of trying to outsource work to their playerbase.
I honestly expect to sit back on my ass and play this game and not be bothered by iskselling, scamming etc. All they need to do (for a shitload of money) is keep this m-****ing server online and add some content now and then. Listen to player feedback and balance it out. It is up to CCP to keep the game balanced, you cannot expect players to ask themselves the question all the time "is this legal isk?" like was stated in an other thread, what if I had an isk seller transfer a large ammount of isk to somebodies account and then petition him? How would that work out?
Now... Please CCP. STOP ****ING OFF YOUR PLAYERS. |
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Eudoric Delmar
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:18:00 -
[101]
There is no way CCP can prove any real money ever changed hands as I doubt anyone ever send them a recipe. So there is no way they can prove anyone is an isk seller or buyer according to most of the e-lawers.
I think everyone that is mad about this should send me isk from 100m to 2B to make it look like I bought the isk. Lets see if I get the ban stick or can talk my way out of it.
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Mazca Lopez
x13 X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:19:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Darriele The way i see it: If CCP cannot provide real proofs that that isk has been bought using Real Money, then clearly the person in cause (the isk buying suspect) is inocent.
And sadly CCP cannot know who bought isk or who didnt.
My advice to Daisho is to make a legal action (consumer protection / or even in law court) against CCP if they consider that they suffered an abuse.
Afterall we pay for this game, so as customers we have our rights guaranteed by any decent country laws.
you only have a case if they charge you for playing but refuse to let you play the game.... your virtual property is as meaningless to law as raping an inflatable doll would be... |
128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mazca Lopez
Originally by: Darriele The way i see it: If CCP cannot provide real proofs that that isk has been bought using Real Money, then clearly the person in cause (the isk buying suspect) is inocent.
And sadly CCP cannot know who bought isk or who didnt.
My advice to Daisho is to make a legal action (consumer protection / or even in law court) against CCP if they consider that they suffered an abuse.
Afterall we pay for this game, so as customers we have our rights guaranteed by any decent country laws.
you only have a case if they charge you for playing but refuse to let you play the game.... your virtual property is as meaningless to law as raping an inflatable doll would be...
If you ever dare touch her... |
Darriele
Minmatar Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:43:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Mazca Lopez
Originally by: Darriele The way i see it: If CCP cannot provide real proofs that that isk has been bought using Real Money, then clearly the person in cause (the isk buying suspect) is inocent.
And sadly CCP cannot know who bought isk or who didnt.
My advice to Daisho is to make a legal action (consumer protection / or even in law court) against CCP if they consider that they suffered an abuse.
Afterall we pay for this game, so as customers we have our rights guaranteed by any decent country laws.
you only have a case if they charge you for playing but refuse to let you play the game.... your virtual property is as meaningless to law as raping an inflatable doll would be...
That exactly happened to daisho guy, you know he's banned. Without any real proofs, only by using indirect evidences that have no weight because you know, they cannot prove if that isk is dirty or not.
So yes, nothing can stop you from doing that if you feel that you are subject of an abusive treatment from CCP part. |
Mazca Lopez
x13 X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:46:00 -
[105]
But if the account is banned I suspect the payment is suspented aswell. so what is lost is a bunch of virtual stuff and countless hous. |
Darriele
Minmatar Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.19 08:52:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Darriele on 19/08/2008 08:56:04
Originally by: Mazca Lopez But if the account is banned I suspect the payment is suspented aswell. so what is lost is a bunch of virtual stuff and countless hous.
Payment is suspended, true, but what about the remaining days that were payed? Think at this, i pay for 3 months today and tomorrow i get banned. Do i get my money back? Probably 99% i wont. So it's a questionable situation, you lose the "invested" money too, without any ways to recover them. Unless, if CCP does refunds the remaining money, then you cannot make a legal move against them very easily. |
Mazca Lopez
x13 X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 09:01:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Darriele
Originally by: Mazca Lopez But if the account is banned I suspect the payment is suspented aswell. so what is lost is a bunch of virtual stuff and countless hous.
Payment is suspended, true, but what about the remaining days that were payed? Think at this, i pay for 3 months today and tomorrow i get banned. Do i get my money back? Probably 99% i wont. So it's a questionable situation, you lose the "invested" money too, without any ways to recover them.
where i live a case regarding 60$ is dismissed for being too small to bother with, IF that would be the case.
that said, as a company owner, i would repay remaining money on banned accounts on a general principle. CCP should too, but i guess it's theire choice how they want to brand themselves.. |
Mia Archer
Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 09:15:00 -
[108]
Once CCP took 5 billion isk from me because I transfered it between two characters on different accounts that I am the owner of, for buying isk... true story
CCPs Policies on policing isk selling are no better than their reimubrsment policy that is to say they seem to HAVE no official policy on how to deal with them. Just as 2 ppl can lose ships in the exact same way to the exact same event and one be reimbursed why another isnt. There seems to be no actual system by which GMs determine who bought isk and who didnt. They just ask as they see fit as far as i can tell and make decisions based on their opinions. The GMs in EVE in general are horrible, they are some of the worst GMs in any game I have ever played. Its as if CCP looked for the rudest ppl they could find and then just told them a brief overview of what to do and then let them lose with no guidelines or oversight on their actions at all. |
AJ Scout
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.19 09:55:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Darriele Edited by: Darriele on 19/08/2008 08:56:04
Originally by: Mazca Lopez But if the account is banned I suspect the payment is suspented aswell. so what is lost is a bunch of virtual stuff and countless hous.
Payment is suspended, true, but what about the remaining days that were payed? Think at this, i pay for 3 months today and tomorrow i get banned. Do i get my money back? Probably 99% i wont. So it's a questionable situation, you lose the "invested" money too, without any ways to recover them. Unless, if CCP does refunds the remaining money, then you cannot make a legal move against them very easily.
Before spewing legal shit you should read the legal document you agreed to signing up for an eve account. You have NO RIGHTS to anything in the game including all characters, isk, objects and otherwise. CCP will refund any pre-paid subscription after 30 days. So if you just paid for 3 months, you will get 2 months returned.
The fact of even trying to do anything legal over a game is laughable, little lone when you have signed an EULA. |
Yakov Draken
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2008.08.19 10:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
This is what has been bugging me. If Ketch took some isk that was paid as rent by isk farmers that is all fine - he wouldn't be banned for that. There is nothing wrong with people farming isk to pay rent and you are allowed to steal it. The isk used for paying rent has come from rattting not buying isk as surely they are selling isk not buying it. Or is the story that he skimmed 40B of isk off corps who buy their isk on the internet to pay rent? That is too wierd.
Maybe I just don't get it (highly possible) but it seems to me the one thing Ketch wasn't banned for was stealing isk payed as rent by isk farmers. Can anyone clarify this? |
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Darriele
Minmatar Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.19 10:48:00 -
[111]
Originally by: AJ Scout
Before spewing legal shit you should read the legal document you agreed to signing up for an eve account. You have NO RIGHTS to anything in the game including all characters, isk, objects and otherwise. CCP will refund any pre-paid subscription after 30 days. So if you just paid for 3 months, you will get 2 months returned.
The fact of even trying to do anything legal over a game is laughable, little lone when you have signed an EULA.
You are a little bit too out. You didn't payed attention to what i was mumbo-jumbo-ing around. Read again.
Here's a little hint for you. You can go in legal courts too if you really wish no one will stop you.
"# GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.
The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland. "
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Crotador
Minmatar The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.08.19 11:09:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
Erm... that depends... Most ISK farmers use macros. That is illigal.
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Rakessh
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.19 12:08:00 -
[113]
The only prescription for this is more COWBELL |
Haka Aragon
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.19 12:49:00 -
[114]
Originally by: AJ Scout Edited by: AJ Scout on 19/08/2008 04:56:35
What proves Ketch is full of it is how many versions of the "story" he has put out.
The first story was he got isk from a isk resellers deposit account.
Now it is stolen isk from a deposit account of a very large alliance in which case they would NOT be selling isk for RL money with this account so there should be no link to isk sellers.
Then there is internally posted on Daisho forums it was his "wife" who gave him the isk from a BoB deposit account . . . So she runs this deposit account, she was not banned, she would have to sell the ISK for RL isk for Ketch to be banned and if it was my wife who was banned cause I gave her isk from a deposit account I think I would come out of the closest even if that meant me being removed from my current corp/alliance.
The fact there is more then one "story" little lone 3 proves he is guilty.
Oh and Ketch on times I have flown with him has been cool. IMO he should get the same penetly as anyone else when they get nailed the first time. Temp ban then the isk removed.
Ok, in response to AJ Scout's message.
- Post with your main
- I have searched all through the Daisho forums and can not find any proof of what you see on it.
Unless you can pm me on the Daisho forums or even eve mail me in game with the exact link to the post you are getting the information you say you have then it should be counted as you talking through your ass which is not uncommon for people that dont have the balls to post with their mains. |
Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.19 15:01:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Crotador
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
Erm... that depends... Most ISK farmers use macros. That is illigal.
Except that this can't be proven which, again, makes the move by CCP questionable.
Sucks to be Daisho right now though :( And I'm sorry to see Ketch go.. He really was a quality guy, a good FC and his loss will hurt Daisho's moralle more than the loss of the Titan will tbh.
In my opinion, and of course that means nothing to CCP, CCP has gone to far here. Nothing against the EULA was done here if the stories being told are true. A player skimmed money off a rent collections character that he owned. He gave some of that skimmed money to ketch... nothing illegal there. And who cares if they were isk farmers... isk farming is not illegal.... Ketch then gave that money to the alliance towards their titan fund.
Titan was purchased with the fund, most of which was 'clean' money the alliance had earned on it's own.... only a portion of the money was the money which had been skimmed from the rent collection character....
Titan purchased and given to Dino to fly... Dino had nothing to do with the isk trail at all if I'm reading this thread right.
CCP gets a burr up their behind and decides the titan was purchased with bought isk and takes the titan... then they ban the Titan pilot acct for good measure?
If no cash ever transfered hands (and I know ketch so I believe him when he says the above is how things went down) then CCP has no reason to do ANY of the above.... Let alone ban an account that had nothing whatsoever to do with the isk trail.
CCP has gone WAY too far... Let's not forget that Daisho has had that Titan for *months*.
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LLago Cesarii
Gallente Synergy Evolved
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Posted - 2008.08.19 15:03:00 -
[116]
Strap on the tinfoil guys... Ketch WAS skimming the isk from BoB. How many BoB players have been banned? how many bob Titans bought with Isk farmer isk have been banned? Or is this simply ccp defending their favorite group of players again. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.08.19 15:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Mia Archer Once CCP took 5 billion isk from me because I transfered it between two characters on different accounts that I am the owner of, for buying isk... true story
If you forgot to petition it, then you deserve to lose those 5 billion. |
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.19 15:47:00 -
[118]
Originally by: LLago Cesarii Strap on the tinfoil guys... Ketch WAS skimming the isk from BoB. How many BoB players have been banned? how many bob Titans bought with Isk farmer isk have been banned? Or is this simply ccp defending their favorite group of players again.
LOL, no, he really wasn't. We don't DO space rental any more, did you miss the memo? |
britishfish
Minmatar Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.19 15:55:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Mynera Nic'Atoch Edited by: Mynera Nic''Atoch on 19/08/2008 07:06:10 OK .. now I'm confused. If Katch was stealing isk from a 'large alliance' and got banned from the game because of the source of the isk - how many of the 'large alliance's' directors got banned from the game too?
This whole story smells of fish.
Myn
this i would like to find out also |
Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.19 16:08:00 -
[120]
I miss the original Dinorryox. |
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