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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
None ofthe Above
128
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Posted - 2012.03.24 05:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Tobiaz wrote:Being able to dock in stations belonging to a Faction that really hate you is also stupid. The way stations are totally randomly distributed over all Factions is also stupid. I think there is a valid point about docking privs being tied to control of the system. But I think it should not being restricted to just FW members and shouldn't be all stations in the system. Military stations sure. But there should be relatively neutral or at least civilian stations that would still allow docking (although maybe the effective standing with the could be adjusted). This all applies pretty equally with NPC Null. Docking in pirate stations seems silly if they hate you, but there should be neutral stations around. Sisters of EVE maybe?
You know I am going to reverse myself here, as much as it seems to make sense to deny docking privs when systems flip, the I don't think that denying players access to their possessions in fast moving FW is a good idea.
Denial of services or perhaps more expensive based on standings of the new system owner, but not docking rights.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
305
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Posted - 2012.03.24 05:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.
A few of you do. A few of us sometimes go to null sec.
But by and large you guys like your game mechanics and we like ours. The idea is to have different options in eve not make everyone do the same thing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
305
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Posted - 2012.03.24 05:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:base out of a nearby highsec station
peace y'all
Making it take longer to reship or ship up or down will just slow down the game.
IMO CCP should be working to pick up the pace of pvp in fw and make it more dynamic. They shouldn't make it plod along at an even slower pace. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
305
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Posted - 2012.03.24 05:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Propmod wrote:So what advantages does being in faction warfare have over just joining a pirate corp and killing people in low sec then? cheap LP items dont seem to outweigh being able to dock in any station imo. I don't know too much about fw other then that though. IMO , admittedly with my limited knowledge of the situation, this doesnt seem like a step forward for FW.
I agree.
The ablility to have ships at various places so you can quickly reship and get in a fight would be a huge advantage for the non-fw low sec pvpers.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
766
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Posted - 2012.03.24 05:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores?
Maybe agents need to change allegiance as well. Or the "old" agent goes into hiding and a new agent shows up in the window to offer you missions.
LP stores could simply be "closed for business" during the occupation by enemy forces.
Sentry guns could be changed at DT based on who has Sov, or just make them "generic". Heck, other then the name, I couldn't tell you whether they are graphically different because they're never more then an in the window. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
766
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Posted - 2012.03.24 05:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Propmod wrote:So what advantages does being in faction warfare have over just joining a pirate corp and killing people in low sec then?
Well, instead of 100% of the opposing players wanting to kill you, now only 60-80% of the other players in the system want to kill you?
(shrugs) It probably needs some more "rewards" and "benefits" added. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
188
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Posted - 2012.03.24 07:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
NPC Standings should dictate docking rights for all players not just FW players. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
36
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Posted - 2012.03.24 08:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Don't worry, it will never happen. Response against it has been pretty much unanimous from just about anyone operating in FW/LS .. problem is that the idea even made it into the presentation, proof of a major flaw in the thought/decision processes in Iceland which does not bode well for any of us (null/high included). CSM6 rode high on a back-log of items that were vetted and ready to fix, CSM7 will have to work hard for a living me'thinks
Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. You spend most of your time in enemy space as FW pilots are wont to? If not then the comparison is neither here nor there. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1001
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Posted - 2012.03.24 08:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
I remember back during WW2 when I lived in San Francisco.
We'd often see Japanese warships pulling into the harbor to refuel and take on provisions after a large naval battle.
Mr Epeen Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
baltec1
856
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Posted - 2012.03.24 08:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
You spend most of your time in enemy space as FW pilots are wont to? If not then the comparison is neither here nor there.
I often spend 2 weeks in enemy space in my bomber and only comeback because I either die, run out of ammo or have something nice in my cargo.
This change makes perfect sense and gives FW some risk it has badly needed for years as well as a goal. |
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Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 14:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
It doesn't matter that it "makes sense" from some roleplay perspective. What matters is the incentive that it provides for PvPers to not be in milita instead of be in militia.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
173
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Posted - 2012.03.24 14:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
The basic problem with the idea is as it always was :
How to you encourage new FW players to make the move out of high-sec when there's a good chance they will lose access to their "stuff"?
For older players its manageable. For new players its not.
Perhaps a better idea would be to be able to gain revenue from the stations in captured systems (eg repair costs) which then get distributed between corps/individuals who have PvP kills in that system over the last day/week/whatever?
I agree with previous posts that this requires a carrot, not a stick. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
212
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
The entire point is to actually get players involved in FW to like... Take part in the system that was set up for faction warfare in the first place.
FW is set apart from the rest of PVP in EVE through these mechanics.... Or at least it is supposed to be, but as of current that is not the case. |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
27
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Tahna Rouspel wrote:I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though. Yes, therefore pirates can dock, but enemy FW cannot. That makes it far more difficult to fight in enemy space. Pirates do not have this disadvantage.
This is why the change is stupid.
Picking one side of a fight and putting on extra restrictions is just going to make people quit that side.
duh
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
413
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Preventing docking is a good idea. Control of territory gives one use of the resources in the territory, being able to dock and get your stuff is a resource in Eve.
Ask any outpost owner if being the owner of your outpost is worth fighting over. |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
293
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
The biggest issue with this change is how quickly it is possible to turn a system. 7 Hours. You can go to bed, wake up, and not have access to your ships. That is intrinsically flawed.
I don't mind not having access to enemy stations. I don't have a problem with friendly stations in occupied systems "dying" on the vine. 3rd party stations belonging - to say Gallente Scope - in Amarr/Minmatar war zones should remain open. It is a war between proxies after all. |
Lady Aja
31
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:-Faction Warfare is in lowsec. -Piracy is in lowsec. -Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight
Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates. Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.
have you seen minmatar fw pilots? they are fuckign pirates lol. so is a fair amountof amarr fw pilots.
i think ccp is onto somethign cept...
you cant dock at enemy stations. even in friendly space, and you can dock at friendly stations in hostile space.
if you want to play stupid docking games in low sec etc... learn to adapt. |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Preventing docking is a good idea. Control of territory gives one use of the resources in the territory, being able to dock and get your stuff is a resource in Eve.
Ask any outpost owner if being the owner of your outpost is worth fighting over.
And what if said outpost owner could simply press a button, stop spending time and resources to defend it, and still have full access to all its facilities. Would they still say it was worth fighting over? |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.03.24 15:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lady Aja wrote:
have you seen minmatar fw pilots? they are fuckign pirates lol. so is a fair amountof amarr fw pilots.
See, this is the worrying thing. I can think of a number of corps, some of them part of the very foundation of the militia, who would seemingly rather quit militia than let it get in the way of their piracy. Something like this comes along and they just might.
Quote: i think ccp is onto somethign cept...
you cant dock at enemy stations. even in friendly space, and you can dock at friendly stations in hostile space.
if you want to play stupid docking games in low sec etc... learn to adapt.
This would be less of a problem in that it won't leave you 10 jumps away from being able to refit or repair, but it still inconveniences the FW players disproportionately. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
249
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Posted - 2012.03.24 17:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
If you don't want to be able to lose your stuff, you leave your stuff in a safe place (A WHOLE 10 JUMPS AWAY in highsec).
If you are willing to lose access your stuff (temporarily) but get fights faster you can live closer by but in a "conquerable" station. Don't leave all your stuff in a warzone and expect to be able to have access to it.
It really isn't a difficult concept and people who live in nullsec, which is what faction warfare is training you for, have understood this forever. |
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
415
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Posted - 2012.03.24 17:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Preventing docking is a good idea. Control of territory gives one use of the resources in the territory, being able to dock and get your stuff is a resource in Eve.
Ask any outpost owner if being the owner of your outpost is worth fighting over. And what if said outpost owner could simply press a button, stop spending time and resources to defend it, and still have full access to all its facilities. Would they still say it was worth fighting over?
No such button exists, so it is a silly question.
If you stop defending your space in the real game, the one we play and not this fantasy game in your question, you loose your outpost and your access. We're talking about Eve, not Hello Kestrel. |
Tibes Heathcliff
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.24 17:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Preventing docking is a good idea. Control of territory gives one use of the resources in the territory, being able to dock and get your stuff is a resource in Eve.
Ask any outpost owner if being the owner of your outpost is worth fighting over. And what if said outpost owner could simply press a button, stop spending time and resources to defend it, and still have full access to all its facilities. Would they still say it was worth fighting over? No such button exists, so it is a silly question. If you stop defending your space in the real game, the one we play and not this fantasy game in your question, you loose your outpost and your access. We're talking about Eve, not Hello Kestrel.
your missing the point.
In the Real game Rule Change Proposed by CCP There Would be such a Button for FW Militia.
You leave Militia.
You have acess to station.
The OP is saying that is an incentive to leave Militia and not bothering to fight over station acess. You can have it without effort, unlike 0.0 .
Of course, even if you didnt want to leave militia permamently. You leave Militia for a day and get your stuff out, then rejoin. |
Tibes Heathcliff
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.24 17:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:....
It really isn't a difficult concept and people who live in nullsec, which is what faction warfare is training you for, have understood this forever.
Here is the problem for lots of FW players.
THEY DONT WANT TO GO TO NULL SEC.
Lots have been and come back, because to be brutaly honest Null Sec sux.
Low Sec Fw is more fun. FW players are concerned this change will make it like Null Sec. Did I say Null Sec sux? |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.03.24 18:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:If you don't want to be able to lose your stuff, you leave your stuff in a safe place (A WHOLE 10 JUMPS AWAY in highsec).
Or you could leave militia, go pirate, and not have to do this.
Quote:If you are willing to lose access your stuff (temporarily) but get fights faster you can live closer by but in a "conquerable" station. Don't leave all your stuff in a warzone and expect to be able to have access to it.
Or you could leave militia, go pirate, and still live in the middle of the warzone with access to all your stuff.
Quote:It really isn't a difficult concept and people who live in nullsec, which is what faction warfare is training you for, have understood this forever.
Again, the problem is not that it "makes sense" or that it's manageable, the problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militia, which is the exact opposite of what CCP is trying to achieve. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
307
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Posted - 2012.03.24 19:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:
You spend most of your time in enemy space as FW pilots are wont to? If not then the comparison is neither here nor there.
I often spend 2 weeks in enemy space in my bomber and only comeback because I either die, run out of ammo or have something nice in my cargo. This change makes perfect sense and gives FW some risk it has badly needed for years as well as a goal.
Most faction war pilots aren't so risk adverse. I can't imagine going 2 weeks of active play without losing a ship.
We lose allot of cheapish ships and tend to quickly jump back into the fray.
Also you need to have a variety of ships available nearby so you can bring it into the various plexes.
A total ban on docking in any stations in an enemy occupied system is indeed quite dumb. Other less onerous station restrictions are something they can/should consider. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
307
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Posted - 2012.03.24 19:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:If you don't want to be able to lose your stuff, you leave your stuff in a safe place (A WHOLE 10 JUMPS AWAY in highsec).
If you are willing to lose access your stuff (temporarily) but get fights faster you can live closer by but in a "conquerable" station. Don't leave all your stuff in a warzone and expect to be able to have access to it.
It really isn't a difficult concept and people who live in nullsec, which is what faction warfare is training you for, have understood this forever.
Its also one of many reasons we don't play eve in sov null sec. I'm glad you like how it works in sov null sec. I really do. I hope ccp keeps sov null sec that way for people like you.
But personally I think what you describe sounds like ****, and so do allot of people who pvp in npc null sec and low sec.
And no faction war is not training us for sov null sec. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
416
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Posted - 2012.03.24 19:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote: Again, the problem is not that it "makes sense" or that it's manageable, the problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militia, which is the exact opposite of what CCP is trying to achieve.
They did mention some carrots in the idea as well, such as taxes and what not. But yes, I see your point there. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
307
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Posted - 2012.03.24 19:53:00 -
[58] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores? Maybe agents need to change allegiance as well. Or the "old" agent goes into hiding and a new agent shows up in the window to offer you missions. LP stores could simply be "closed for business" during the occupation by enemy forces. Sentry guns could be changed at DT based on who has Sov, or just make them "generic". Heck, other then the name, I couldn't tell you whether they are graphically different because they're never more then an in the window.
I was thinking of something similar. Don't change docking rights at all - scrap that idea for now.
However, if a system is occupied by minmatar there would be say a 1% chance per 30 straight days of minmatar occupancy (or whatever percents and timelines you want) that an amarr corp station would change hands over to a minmatar or gallente controled corp. So a Carthum conglomorate might basically sell their station to boundless. There might be a .5% chance that a caldari would flip to minmatar or Gallente as well.
There would be new boundless agents installed. Such a change would to some extent hurt players with high amarr standings because there would be fewer available agents for them. However if it got extreme then Amarr lp items would have less supply and therefore more value. Hence it would have some self balance to it.
It would give our war meaning in the wider Eve universe but it would be somewhat self balancing and not a reason for everyone to pile on the winning side. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1179
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Posted - 2012.03.24 20:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
Souvera Corvus wrote:Initial reaction is that it'll make fights a bit harder to come by as factions stick to their own systems.
Haven't seen the detail in which the devil is concealed though.
Yes, because just look at nullsec, nobody ever goes to systems you can't dock in if someone shoots you.
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
307
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Posted - 2012.03.24 20:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Souvera Corvus wrote:Initial reaction is that it'll make fights a bit harder to come by as factions stick to their own systems.
Haven't seen the detail in which the devil is concealed though. Yes, because just look at nullsec, nobody ever goes to systems you can't dock in if someone shoots you.
Your talking about sov null sec. Npc null sec and low sec are often more attractive to small gang pvpers.
But I wonder if there is more overall ship versus ship pvp in npc null sec per person and per system, or if there is more in sov null sec.
I really don't know the answer. Perhaps ccp Diagoras could give the stats on this if he hasn't already.
Even if sov null sec has more, I would think npc null sec has more of the frequent small scale fights that fw should aim for. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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