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Estella Havisham	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:57:00 - [1] I am days away from undocking in my shiny new Archon. I read some posts and advice on fittings, and thought I would put forward my proposed fit for critique. I plan to use the carrier for a variety of roles, excluding piracy and larger fleet battles. Highs:- Amarr Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer Amarr Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer Shadow Serpentis Large Plasma Smartbomb Capital Remote Armor Repair System Capital Remote Armor Repair System Mids:- Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II Lows:- Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Amarr Navy EANM Damage Control II Rigs:- Capacitor Control Circuit Capacitor Control Circuit Capacitor Control Circuit Some comments and questions:- Drone control units û am I right in thinking that outside certain specific circumstances, these make the baby Jesus cry? Carriers should be fit primarily for support, and even if I want DPS, the neuts will be more effective in breaking tanks than an extra fighter or two. Right? Smartbombs û how useful are these on carriers? If so, is just one going to get it done? WhatÆs the best damage type? Is it worth going for the extra range provided by faction modules û if so, whatÆs a good area of effect to aim for? Capital remotes û Even with good skills, I donÆt have the cap to run both reps. Is it worth fitting two? I was thinking the ability to cycle both reps, and support multiple targets (albeit for short periods of time) was worth the second module. Might it be worth fitting a single capital armour and capital shield rep instead? Sensor booster û this is an essential module, right? Is it ever worth fitting an ECM module instead of, or as well as the sensor booster? Cap relay or not? û Is it worth trying to squeeze a capacitor relay in one of the lows? How often does an Archon fail due to poor resists, as opposed to poor cap? If I do fit one, should I loose the EANM, or damage control? There seems to be quite a split in thoughts on this. Neuts û I have tried to keep the fitting cost reliably low, but its worth putting up the cash to get the extra range provided by faction neuts, right? Rigs û Triple CCCÆs are the best choice, right? As opposed to, say, trimarks and memory cells? Implants û how many carrier pilots have a dedicated jump clone û if so, what would be a good choice for implants? The Squire CC4/8 and CR4/8 seem like a good start. What about cap reduction for the remote reps or neuts? Would a zet5000 for some added armour be a terrible idea û or even slave sets? Are these common amongst carrier pilots? Thanks in advance for any help and advice!
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:11:00 - [2] The setup looks good imo but might be a bit short on cap for larger fleet ops. Try something like this in the lows: 1x navy cap power relay 2x navy eanm 1x dcu II 2x capital repper 1x explosive hardener Will give you and your gang a few extra seconds of remote repping in situations where your local tank is no longer relevant.
achoura	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:24:00 - [3] scm > ccc (assuming isk isn't the factor) *The EVE servers and their patches*
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:36:00 - [4] Originally by: achoura scm > ccc (assuming isk isn't the factor) No they are not. Get out. To the OP. Drone Control Units are all but useless, there are a dozen other things you could put on there to help. Smartbombs are very good. If you are in a cap fleet and bunched together then smartbombs will take care of those pesky fighters and force opposing carriers to deploy sentries (less incoming DPS) Depending on what you're up to I'd recommend packing two and dropping a neut (if you have moar carriers with you then only take one SB) Neut is mandatory, excellent for helping to break capital tanks (if you're in a group) and for dealing with pesky tacklers (if traveling/small gang). CPRs... Depending on the size of your fleet you could get away with dropping a local rep and an EANM for CPRs or just the EANM if you're in a small gang. Keep the DCU as the benefit to your EHP is massive and it will keep you alive a few seconds longer, thus keeping your DPS on the target longer and keeping your buddies alive longer. Sensor booster is needed for small gang, maybe less so for cap engagements. In Eve the Falcon Age I don't undock my Carrier without ECCM any more, despite you're high sensor strength it's still usefull. If you drop a recharger for an ECCM and Sensor Booster make sure you have at least one CPR. Calm Your Passion
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus Try something like this in the lows: 1x navy cap power relay 2x navy eanm 1x dcu II 2x capital repper 1x explosive hardener Why oh why would you opt on losing 33% cap recharge for 7.5% more tank, even less on avg, fighters and dreads hardly do any exp damage. Fit a second cpr, please. Originally by: achoura scm > ccc (assuming isk isn't the factor) No. @ OP: Setup looks decent, bit overtanked with too little cap. If you fancy the rr role, fit like this: 3x cap remote armor rep, 1x energy transfer in high, mids same, lows: 1x rep 2x eanm 1x damage control 3x cap power relay --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Sonreir Gallente Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:10:00 - [6] Listen to Larkonis. He knows what he's talking about. I'd try this for high slots though: 1x Capital Remote Rep 1x Faction Smartie 2x Faction Heavy Energy Neuts 1x Triage (spelling?) Module Keep modules of different types handy though. One of the nice things about carriers is their versatility. I do run drone control units sometimes, but that's to make additional use of drones, not fighters. Those extra EV-900s or Heavy Shield Maintenance Bots come in handy every now and again.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Sonreir Listen to Larkonis. He knows what he's talking about. I'd try this for high slots though: 1x Capital Remote Rep 1x Faction Smartie 2x Faction Heavy Energy Neuts 1x Triage (spelling?) Module Keep modules of different types handy though. One of the nice things about carriers is their versatility. I do run drone control units sometimes, but that's to make additional use of drones, not fighters. Those extra EV-900s or Heavy Shield Maintenance Bots come in handy every now and again. With just one capital rep you wont be of much use. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Sonreir Listen to Larkonis. He knows what he's talking about. I'd try this for high slots though: 1x Capital Remote Rep 1x Faction Smartie 2x Faction Heavy Energy Neuts 1x Triage (spelling?) Module . dont ever fit and use one on a carrier. Other carriers and moms will be unable to rep you in triage mode. triage = death for carriers.
Wasted Mind Gallente Syntech Research and Development Lords of the Damned	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:19:00 - [9] Gotta agree triage may be a carrier siege mod but it is something you should never use on your carrier. Not being able to spider is to large of a trade off to make triage worth using. Then there's the whole stuck in place thing too.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:36:00 - [10] also, no need for a DCU (damage control unit) on amarr capitals - its better to work with your strongest tank (armor) and either fit a second EANM or a cap mod in that place. And DCUs (Drone Control Unit) are a true waste of a slot. Smartbombs, neuts, capital remote reppers and in some cases a cloak is about the only choises you have on the highs.
Arayan Light	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:37:00 - [11] Edited by: Arayan Light on 03/09/2008 00:37:52 [Archon, The Ark] Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Capacitor Power Relay II Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Core B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Core B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Amarr Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer Drone Control Unit I Drone Control Unit I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I + Fighters , T2 Sentries , Logistic Drone blah blah blah blah :P >Tanks like a female dog. <
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Car Wars dont ever fit and use one on a carrier. Other carriers and moms will be unable to rep you in triage mode. triage = death for carriers. TBH, I'd probably triage my Niddy in a POS repping gang. Well, if the corp wanted to get me another one anyway... -Liang
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:43:00 - [13] Quote: I plan to use the carrier for a variety of roles, excluding piracy and larger fleet battles. if this is the case then you need a cloak more than any other mod really.
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:48:00 - [14] Edited by: Firkragg on 03/09/2008 00:49:13 swap the DCU for a cap relay. Other than that its fine. And yes generally DCUs are crap in a proper carrier. Only use is if your carrier is sitting at a pos jsut assigning fighters and there is 0 chance that anyones gonna attack you there. In regards to a clone alot of cap pilots like to have a LG slave set with some armor and cap hardwires but it aint required.
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.03 02:21:00 - [15] Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 03/09/2008 02:23:46 Originally by: Arayan Light Edited by: Arayan Light on 03/09/2008 00:37:52 [Archon, The Ark] Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Capacitor Power Relay II Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Core B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Core B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Amarr Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer Drone Control Unit I Drone Control Unit I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I + Fighters , T2 Sentries , Logistic Drone blah blah blah blah :P >Tanks like a female dog. < Locator agent activated. Ref Triage, I don't have it trained on my Capital Character BUT outside of cap fleets and in small gang actions where you are the only carrier or one of two then it may be useful, after all, if you are repping your support like crazy then noone is going to touch you. BTW is there a cool animation for Triage like with Dreads/Rorquals? Calm Your Passion
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.03 03:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 03/09/2008 02:23:46Ref Triage, I don't have it trained on my Capital Character BUT outside of cap fleets and in small gang actions where you are the only carrier or one of two then it may be useful, after all, if you are repping your support like crazy then noone is going to touch you. BTW is there a cool animation for Triage like with Dreads/Rorquals? have fun capping out
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.03 05:23:00 - [17] I'd say a damage control is warranted on an archon when it's used with the following lowslot config: 1x(2x) rep, 2x (faction) eanm, 1x damage control 3x(2x) cpr 1x rep/3xcpr in large fleets, 2x rep/2xcpr with really small gangs. I don't understand why people keep fitting carriers stupidly expensive, they are disposable as hell and T2 should suffice in nearly all cases. Another thing, the drone control units. They are useless, can we get over it, and not bring it up every single bloody time? Carriers lack highslots as it is, not a good idea to waste them like that. Oh and, carriers need cap. Lots, and lots of it, and just filling your mids with rechargers will not suffice after you've horribly overtanked your lows. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Ashrade	Posted - 2008.09.03 06:00:00 - [18] Quote: also, no need for a DCU (damage control unit) on amarr capitals - its better to work with your strongest tank (armor) and either fit a second EANM or a cap mod in that place. Actually in combination with an EANM the DCU II gives more extra resist on armor then another EANM, also it gives extra shield resist (not very usefull but every bit helps). So DCU II > EANM in this case. A thing I can add is carriers are in a different league then sub-capitals hitpoint wise, so generally in gang fights its wise to have serious RR (and thus CPR's instead of a major tank) to keep your gang alive. If they have to chew through all your shields and armor to win they loose anyway (If the rest of the gang is any good ofcourse). So keep your gang alive is win, means an ECCM is smart to have as well. Note: I read alot and have shit experience but this seems whats best to me (I do fly a carrier): Low: 2x CPR 2x Capital rep 1x EANM 1x DCU 1x Exp hardener Mid: 3x cap recharger 1x ECCM radar High: 2x RR SB 2x Neut This means with decent skills you can run a dual rep perma tank if primaried, if not one rep can be run indefinately and the other staggered.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.03 06:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Ashrade stuff Why put on an exp hardener? Carriers and dreads hardly do any explosive damage and you will be much better off with another eanm there. Also, in a rr fleet, a second repper is superflous. The more rr there is, the less significant your local tank becomes. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Ashrade	Posted - 2008.09.03 06:57:00 - [20] Was more a gang setup :> As the OP said Quote: excluding piracy and larger fleet battles. I kind of assumed that meant no dreads around ;)
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.09.03 07:04:00 - [21] Triage seems to be useful if you're going to be doing nothing but repping, but the consensus is not having 10 fighters out isn't worth what's essentially 4x the repping ability and EW immunity. I can see it useful where your the only carrier and you become primaried because of the extra tank (EFT says 6700 tank on a nid with 1 cap rep), but has anyone actually used them in a real engagement? I don't want to go just off of hearsay and conjecture. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.03 07:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Ashrade Was more a gang setup :> As the OP said Quote: excluding piracy and larger fleet battles. I kind of assumed that meant no dreads around ;) Even then EXP damage isn't used much and you will be better off with an eanm. Do the maths, feed it into EFT, whatever, but you'll find that due to the stacking penalty, equipping a single hardener on an omnitank will only make it very slightly better, even moreso when the damage type isn't quite 25% of what you find in actual combat situations. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.03 07:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Spaztick I can see it useful where your the only carrier and you become primaried because of the extra tank (EFT says 6700 tank on a nid with 1 cap rep), but has anyone actually used them in a real engagement? I don't want to go just off of hearsay and conjecture. I haven't used it, but in the scenario's where triage would be useful (large fleets, protecting supercaps etc), those same hostile dreads posing a threat to your supercap could well pop a triaged carrier in minutes anyway, so whats the point? That, and pinning yourself on the spot for 10 minutes isnt a good idea with the limited range of capital remote reppers (51km at best) --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Estella Havisham	Posted - 2008.09.07 22:16:00 - [24] Thanks very much for all the replies and advice, certainly a lot to think about here. Originally by: Larkonis Trassler In Eve the Falcon Age lol @ this!
achoura	Posted - 2008.09.07 23:15:00 - [25] Edited by: achoura on 07/09/2008 23:15:27 Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: achoura scm > ccc (assuming isk isn't the factor) No they are not. Get out. To the OP. Drone Control Units are all but useless, there are a dozen other things you could put on there to help. Smartbombs are very good. If you are in a cap fleet and bunched together then smartbombs will take care of those pesky fighters and force opposing carriers to deploy sentries (less incoming DPS) Depending on what you're up to I'd recommend packing two and dropping a neut (if you have moar carriers with you then only take one SB) Neut is mandatory, excellent for helping to break capital tanks (if you're in a group) and for dealing with pesky tacklers (if traveling/small gang). CPRs... Depending on the size of your fleet you could get away with dropping a local rep and an EANM for CPRs or just the EANM if you're in a small gang. Keep the DCU as the benefit to your EHP is massive and it will keep you alive a few seconds longer, thus keeping your DPS on the target longer and keeping your buddies alive longer. Sensor booster is needed for small gang, maybe less so for cap engagements. In Eve the Falcon Age I don't undock my Carrier without ECCM any more, despite you're high sensor strength it's still usefull. If you drop a recharger for an ECCM and Sensor Booster make sure you have at least one CPR. sigh Learn how to form paragraphs before telling people where to go. Fyi scms increase in cap means modules run longer, in fact the cap increase boosts the caps recharge rate leaving it (literally) a fraction below ccc rate, particularly when paired with cprs which every archon has. Did you think scm cost double that of a ccc for fun or did you stop to wonder why ccp made them double the build cost? *The EVE servers and their patches*
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.09.08 01:56:00 - [26] Originally by: achoura CCC's, what? Most people tend to go with CCCs because they help you jump faster. 1 CCC will get you to 75% faster than 500000000 scm's
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.08 04:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: achoura CCC's, what? Most people tend to go with CCCs because they help you jump faster. 1 CCC will get you to 75% faster than 500000000 scm's And, if one is packing their low slots with CPR's anyway, it stands to reason that one could then install an SCM or two and have more emergency cap and sacrifice very little in the way of mobility. But the debate is really quite silly. In what percentage of instances is the difference in jump time going to actually get you killed? I'd wager the answer is in fact so improbable that it's not really worth worrying about in terms of safety - instead it's a matter of personal preference for convience or security.

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