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Darken Kain
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:11:00 -
[1]
Do you think it is possible to PvP as a career in EVE? That doesn't seem realistic since PvP results in a net loss for the economy (destroyed ships, modules, etc).
Piracy is a profession. Mining is a profession. PvP for the sake of PvP doesn't seem sustainable unless the player is using an alt to fund the PvP character.
Thoughts?
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Thea Arsoniztik
Red Tides
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:12:00 -
[2]
Mercs.
Next topic.
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TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:41:00 -
[3]
It's a semi-profession, but you can't make enough money alone from PVP/pirating in my experience. Even on a good day, the modules dropped aren't enough to make a living off of.
I mix it up, I mission, rat in 0.0, and pirate in lowsec/0.0
It's a nice balance.
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:45:00 -
[4]
If it is a profession, someone cited mercs, it's a tiny one. I wonder how many bil all mercs get paid each month vs all miners or all mission runners....
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Darken Kain Do you think it is possible to PvP as a career in EVE? That doesn't seem realistic since PvP results in a net loss for the economy (destroyed ships, modules, etc).
Piracy is a profession. Mining is a profession. PvP for the sake of PvP doesn't seem sustainable unless the player is using an alt to fund the PvP character.
Thoughts?
PvP as a whole is obviously going to be a loss, but if you're good you can make a profit from it
(I am not that good)
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:49:00 -
[6]
Traders make good money. Industrialists as a whole make damn good money, including producers, researchers and miners.
Oh, you didn't mean *that* kind of PvP. We're not talking about the good and acceptable forms of player vs. player competition, we're talking about the bad ones that can be called griefers? Gotcha.
Mercenaries make very good money, from what I am told. Pirates as well, though I hear that it takes a certain kind of person to make money pirating.
Mercs really cover it all, though. I know of combat corporations who are hired to defend a corporation or whatnot, as well as our 'normal' mercs who take out the opponents for us.
So, yeah, you can make money in pure PvP, but it's hard as hell to accomplish. Just like it's nearly impossible for someone to live completely free of PvP. Ever make a new character and never let them use the market or rent anything? I have. Your stuck in an executioner and the loot you get from missions. Bogus.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:54:00 -
[7]
It is possible to live from pvp. Even though I have industrial alt, my recent luck with kills and ransoms is funding me quite nicely all on their own. Even so, I'm not coming rich from it, but in Eve, that isn't my goal either.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:54:00 -
[8]
It's a bit like saying, "I know carpentry, roofing, and house framing are professions, but what about a hammer? Is a hammer a profession"?
You can use PvP (pew pew - ie the hammer) to enforce your role as a pirate or merc or alliance space watch dog or whatever, upon another player, but in itself its just a tool. And by itself is without any meaning unless you wrap some sort of context around it. Whatever that context is would be the profession.
Someone who just PvPs without any context around the action would be what exactly? A Killboarder?
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:04:00 -
[9]
According to the CCP devs, PvP is not in and of itself a "profession." It's merely one possible activity you perform as part of a profession.
Originally by: CCP Dionysus Basically - PvP is not a profession. It doesn't get you any isk, but makes all sides loose isk (destroyed items, repairs, ammo, etc)
Ship shooting ship is what you do to protect your income, it doesn't make you income by itself.
CCP devs say PvP is not a 'profession'
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Darken Kain Do you think it is possible to PvP as a career in EVE? That doesn't seem realistic since PvP results in a net loss for the economy (destroyed ships, modules, etc).
In absolute honesty, I make a profit pvping. I'm in faction warfare and 99% of the time I fly tech 1 fit cruisers (the thorax is awesome). Counting insurance, this ship costs around 1 million isk to lose. That is to say that you can buy a cruiser, fit it out with tech 1 gear, insure it to 100% and lose it and at the end of all this you'll only have about 1 million isk less than you started with. When I make a kill, the t2 modules I get as loot are enough to pay for 3-4 ship losses.
Me and Siigari Kitawa have been doing this for the past few days (I think I've gotten him addicted to Tech 1 fit thoraxes :D) and we've made a profit from it overall. We've taken down some big stuff too, including T2 cruisers, a battlecruiser and a battleship. So sustainable pvp is definitely doable, but I recommend doing it with a group of other people. Number of pilots, strategy and experience are all far more decisive factors in PvP than the cost of your ship and gear.
If you use battleships, it costs you under 15-25m per loss if cheaply fitted but I still prefer roaming cruiser packs.
Pillowsoft - Join the Pillowsoft Gallente Militia, get free ships and support. |
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 It's a bit like saying, "I know carpentry, roofing, and house framing are professions, but what about a hammer? Is a hammer a profession"?
You can use PvP (pew pew - ie the hammer) to enforce your role as a pirate or merc or alliance space watch dog or whatever, upon another player, but in itself its just a tool. And by itself is without any meaning unless you wrap some sort of context around it. Whatever that context is would be the profession.
QFT -
DesuSigs |
Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:13:00 -
[12]
Is forum trolling a real profession?
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Montague Zooma Is forum trolling a real profession?
Yes, though it's easy to spot it when it occurs. Look for the "!".
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Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TheG2 It's a semi-profession, but you can't make enough money alone from PVP/pirating in my experience. Even on a good day, the modules dropped aren't enough to make a living off of.
Then you suck! I know a load of Pirates (including me) that make billions from freighter, hauler and mod drops!!!
Don't speak for everyone based on your limited experience.
Yes, PvP is a valid profession but you have to be a good team player!
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:27:00 -
[15]
how do i made money as a forum troll?
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.11 17:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vabjekf how do i made money as a forum troll?
Tarmininc can answer that one. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Dirtball
PinK TacO Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 18:03:00 -
[17]
It used to be when cap charger 2s sold for 10 mil and heavy missle luancher 2s sold for 10-15 mil. Ransoming still is viable though.
null This is what prices used to look like so 5 kills could net your 3 man gang enough isk to only log in show up in a tackler and have a blast with no cearbearing around.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.09.11 18:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex If it is a profession, someone cited mercs, it's a tiny one. I wonder how many bil all mercs get paid each month vs all miners or all mission runners....
well, its kinda obvious, like 70% of eve is mission runners and miners, its going to be small, the real question would be, how PROFITABLE is pvp as a profession, do you get more isk for your time than if you were mining or mission running, and i would think that would be a yes, you ransom someone for 50million within 15 minutes of piracy, you just made the amount of 2.5 hours of mission running (approximately)
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.11 18:55:00 -
[19]
in reality war is only fought because of industry or profits, not because they themselves are profitable, but because they seek to defend something that is profitable, or take something that is profitable over.
I don't see where this idea that pvp should be profitable comes from. You are all clearly under the false assumption that mmorpgs are played for fun.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.11 19:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex If it is a profession, someone cited mercs, it's a tiny one. I wonder how many bil all mercs get paid each month vs all miners or all mission runners....
well, its kinda obvious, like 70% of eve is mission runners and miners, its going to be small, the real question would be, how PROFITABLE is pvp as a profession, do you get more isk for your time than if you were mining or mission running, and i would think that would be a yes, you ransom someone for 50million within 15 minutes of piracy, you just made the amount of 2.5 hours of mission running (approximately)
Course, how often do the ransoms come through, how long do you wait at the gate doing nothing, how much do you spend to replace your equipment when one of those dread anti-pirates comes around, how long do you have to rat (though making money while doing it) before your sec status goes back up, how many times does your target fire back, how many times do you have to run because your target is part of a fleet, etc, etc.
Nothing is ever cut and dry. Course, this isn't the profits of 'pvp', but 'piracy', two different subjects. One uses the other, but is not mutually exclusive. You can 'pirate' NPC's working out of nulsec pirate stations.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Mark Lucius
Kinetic Vector
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Posted - 2008.09.11 19:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 It's a bit like saying, "I know carpentry, roofing, and house framing are professions, but what about a hammer? Is a hammer a profession"?
You can use PvP (pew pew - ie the hammer) to enforce your role as a pirate or merc or alliance space watch dog or whatever, upon another player, but in itself its just a tool. And by itself is without any meaning unless you wrap some sort of context around it. Whatever that context is would be the profession.
This. Quite simple actually. ---
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Feilamya
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.11 20:49:00 -
[22]
It is. And so is being a spaceship pilot.
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Baldour Ngarr
Interwarp Plexus Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.09.11 21:13:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Baldour Ngarr on 11/09/2008 21:14:55 It's possible for a specific person to make money out of PvP, by killing more than they're killed and looting valuable stuff from the wrecks.
It is not possible for the playerbase as a whole to make money out of PvP. In any fatal encounter, some stuff is destroyed; but nothing - no ISK, no minerals, no modules - is ever created.
In other words if nobody in EVE ever did anything but pew-pew, the universe would soon run out of money altogether.
(I just remembered that salvage stuff is actually created out of combat encounters. However, I don't believe this can ever be as valuable as what was destroyed, so the overall EVE playerbase still loses money as a result of shooting each other. ;) ) ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.11 21:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Edited by: Baldour Ngarr on 11/09/2008 21:14:55 It's possible for a specific person to make money out of PvP, by killing more than they're killed and looting valuable stuff from the wrecks.
It is not possible for the playerbase as a whole to make money out of PvP. In any fatal encounter, some stuff is destroyed; but nothing - no ISK, no minerals, no modules - is ever created.
In other words if nobody in EVE ever did anything but pew-pew, the universe would soon run out of money altogether.
(I just remembered that salvage stuff is actually created out of combat encounters. However, I don't believe this can ever be as valuable as what was destroyed, so the overall EVE playerbase still loses money as a result of shooting each other. ;) )
We don't lose money. With insurance, the playerbase as a whole actually gains money when ships go boom. What we lose is just things. And in the purest form, those things are really just time. Since it only takes an amount of time to recoup the things necessary to make the other things that fly around and pew pew.
So... I guess that means that if everyone just PvP'd, we'd just lose time while gaining isk. So if we do it enough, we could go back in time to 2003 and be some rich mother truckers once we got there!
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Daitetsu Minase
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Posted - 2008.09.11 21:36:00 -
[25]
I think PVP is more mindset than career. I pve until I hear WTs in system, or a member of my corp gets a lowsec 3 man gang together.
PVE is good for those times when I have a limited investment and don't want to bail on my chummers halfway through a long multi-system stern chase for a war-target or guy we don't like.
But really, I am a PVPer at heart, the PVE just funds that moment when I jump in a BC, Cruiser, or whatever and dive into the raging heart of destruction.
That being said you can make a lot of money with PVP, but it's very hit or miss and sometimes you end up losing everything with an ill-timed or ill-advised engagement.
PVP is more of a fun thing to do, it takes a great deal of patience to make it a career, more than most people have, but a lot of people have the "mindset" for a pvp guy, which is, hey, let's go mess someone up.
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Baldour Ngarr
Interwarp Plexus Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.09.11 21:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 We don't lose money. With insurance, the playerbase as a whole actually gains money when ships go boom. What we lose is just things.
True, we don't lose actual ISKies. We lose items of value - the "things" to which you refer.
The net cost of PvP is always to decrease the overall wealth of the Universe. The amount of ISK floating about may increase, but actual wealth goes down - minerals are destroyed, and will have to be mined again.
Of course, the potential wealth of the playerbase is infinite, since asteroids always respawn. Nevertheless, any PvP actions which result in ship loss, must reduce the actual wealth available until someone goes and mines enough minerals to build the ship again. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.09.11 22:02:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Haradgrim on 11/09/2008 22:03:11
Originally by: Vabjekf in reality war is only fought because of industry or profits, not because they themselves are profitable, but because they seek to defend something that is profitable, or take something that is profitable over.
I don't see where this idea that pvp should be profitable comes from. You are all clearly under the false assumption that mmorpgs are played for fun.
You clearly don't understand war. ___________________________________ From Schindler's list:
Schindler: Three hundred and fifty workers on the factory floor with one purpose...to make money - for me!...They won't soon forget the name Schindler either. I can tell you that. Oskar Schindler, they'll say. Everybody remembers him. He did something extraordinary. He did something no one else did. He came here with nothing, a suitcase, and built a bankrupt company into a major manufactory. And left with a steamer trunk, two steamer trunks, full of money. All the riches of the world...There's no way I could have known this before, but there was always something missing. In every business I tried, I can see now it wasn't me that had failed. Something was missing. Even if I'd known what it was, there's nothing I could have done about it, because you can't create this thing. And it makes all the difference in the world between success and failure.
Emilie: Luck?
Schindler: War. ___________________________________
You may also be familiar with a country called Iraq? Ever heard of a company called Haliburton? --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Shagrath Neptune
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.09.11 22:08:00 -
[28]
In my opinion, anything in this game that doesn't break the EULA and makes you isk can be considered a profession if you want it to be.
I make a tidy profit scooping up the modules of my victims in FW. I don't consider it a real profession because I depend on isk income from other methods but if someone wanted to do what i just described to make isk, there is no reason why he/she couldn't call it "their profession."
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