Refitting ships in mid-combat is one of those rare possibilities to beat a large group of players with a smaller one - do not take this away from us, please! Pretty please?

We're currently leaning towards not making any general changes to refitting in space.

Interesting but out of scope due to having to remove modules from ships, unfortunately.

[Chuckling IRL about the idea of letting Titans mount 5, 1m HP DDs, then saying "supercarriers would counter Titans because they would be mostly immune to the DD effect."

If by "mostly immune," you mean, "1-3 supercarriers dying every shot," then yeah. Pretty much immune.

I don't think I'll ever understand where the whole "pro-doomsdays" crowd is coming from with their arguments. DDs are a massive alpha, totally zero-skill weapon mounted to ships that can then fit entirely for tank without sacrificing any offensive capability whatsoever. They're pretty much the antithesis of everything EVE claims to stand for: they require no fitting compromises to use, they do so much damage that they alpha most caps (yes, in practice you can fit dreads to tank a DD or two, but only because everyone flies buses and Avatars), the only constraint on their usage is "you must be in lock range," and it's been scientifically proven that they hate fun.

If I were CCP I would do pretty much the exact opposite thing: remove doomsdays entirely, vastly reduce Titans' damage bonus to XL weapons, and introduce a new type of turret that Titans could use to do massive damage to structures and caps at the cost of being able to track anything smaller in all but the most contrived situations.

I suggest the following:
1. Change the DD to 1,000,000 base damage
2. Change the DD cap usage, and isotope usage to 1/3 of normal
3. Remove all guns/missiles from the titans
4. Change the DD operation skill to "Allows the use of the Doomsday module. One extra module can be fitted per skill level."

Dreads being used for PvE is another of those "we're OK with it but we're not designing for it" scenarios. Unless making this change will fundamentally *break* W-space (not just disadvantage people, but make it literally unusable), we're not planning to start balancing dreadnaughts with PvE in mind just because someone's managed to make it work in a few specific scenarios. That road takes us to a place where we can't nerf titans because they're really good ratters.

As such it looks like PVE use of capitals was actually taken into consideration when CCP created such mechanic.

This is a really strong argument. I'm now leaning away from using damage scaling as a general solution to this issue in future, and towards messing directly with the damage formula. That's not a commitment, but I buy the argument about too much RPS and not enough player skill.

[quote=CCP Greyscale]
As such it looks like PVE use of capitals was actually taken into consideration when CCP created such mechanic.

The reason we don't really like this sort of thing is that pre-fight fitting decisions are supposed to be one of the fundamental decisions of EVE combat. Most MMOs let you change your weapons and armor more-or-less on the fly. We don't, and there are clear and long-standing design principles behind that. SMAs let you make that decision *closer* to the fight, but they're not there to let you change your fitting *in* the fight. Yes, we need more interesting decisions that players can make during combat, that's one of the fundamental problems with our combat model right now IMO, and yes, removing this option will take some interesting decisions out of combat, and that makes us sad

Sorry for assuming, but to my credit there has been a series of obvious highsec-dwellers who've posted ITT about how unfair it is that Titans can refit themselves. v0v

Also to my credit: your argument is still silly. Seriously when are Titans fielded without 2-3 their quantity of supercarriers? Hint: driveby DDs of traveling caps. And that's it. In any fleet battle there are always going to be supercarriers with a titan blob. Probably regular carriers as well (people use them to feed supers cap after jumps).

To answer your question quite recently by Northern Coalition in MC6-5J 3 GÇô 4 days ago (I'm using EVE kill information purely as an example ).
11 titans 8 super carriers and 1 carrier ( that show on EVE kill minus the logistical ships that obviously donGÇÖt show up unless they had offensive modules ).
So with current day game mechanics and the numbers above that would give the NC fleet an option to refit 200 ships instead of the change I suggested where they would only be able to refit up to 90 ( this is still adequate and means pilots need to coordinated with others both inside and outside the relevant entities for things such as refitting during large scale combat since IGÇÖm sure there was more than just Northern Coalition fighting on one side ).
It should be about the support and coordination that you bring to the fight that determines the ability of your refit options, Well formed fleets should be the key to combat.

The formula should be support + damage + coordination + ability = win
not
damage + no support + no coordination + more numbers than the other side = win

This is my own view of EVE and like others it may not be your view of EVE.

The titans SMAs only allow refitting for 2 ships, and it's not as simple as adding up the total amount of ships theoretically supported by the number of SMAs present, they don't get spread out evenly. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but even in a fleet of all (super)carriers, it's not uncommon to get a message saying that you can't refit because there's too many ships in range of the SMA ship.
In the past it was as simple as counting how many ships were in the 5k radius around the SMA ship, and if it was more then SMA could handle it was impossible to use (for everyone - if there were 11 people in range, all 11 would be unable to refit, rather then 10 being able to refit and 1 not), but it seems like it has been changed semi-recently since that happens way less often and even in huge capital blobs refitting has been working. My best guess is that each ship is assigned to the closest SMA equipped ship, rather then to every ship within 5k like before, and the ship count restriction is based on that instead.

I've never bothered to test it, but the sub-caps seem to not count either - even with an entire fleet sitting on a titan (with no other caps or POS SMAs close) I've been able to refit using it.

Why not add a new high-slot or mid-slot MODULE that prevents combat re-fitting of the targeted ship?

This offers a new tactical tool to counter re-fitting and adds to emergent gameplay, without doing away with refitting entirely.

CCP was talking about adding new modules anyway.

#1 dreads in siege and carriers in triage cant be painted . . .

This is a really strong argument. I'm now leaning away from using damage scaling as a general solution to this issue in future, and towards messing directly with the damage formula. That's not a commitment, but I buy the argument about too much RPS and not enough player skill.

you can't be imposing when you can't kill ****

Most of you have no idea what you are talking about and keep posting in this thread only crap. The current need of usage of titans is a flaw due to a more flawed sov. system. Greyscale is running around for his own tail for weeks. I am down to what ever changes you want but make is so that sbu's, tcu's, ihubs can be killed only by capitals so this way a titan will be a decisive ship to use in sov warfare. Now you are crying that titans blap sub then you will cry that titans blap capitals. You just want them nerfed so you can safely kill everything with Maelstroms and drakes. This game needs to put people to work, think , improvise and not being in the same doctrine and win eve just because shear numbers. CCP is babling all the time that they encourage people to think out of the box and have alot of options available, those options are for people that use their brains

My sugestion: TCU , SBU , IHUB can be killed only by capitals - define a good role for titans ( CCP you started with the obvious role of being anti support ship and since then you change like the wind and you prefer to nerf to oblivion everything
POS: can be reinforced only by capitals )


And here you have the place of titans as being a anti-capital platform.

You presented at fan fest a nice presentation of all the ships from frigs to titans. In that presentation was like this Titan - Slow , Imposing - you can't be imposing when you can't kill ****. It is a pain for me to see this game being developed by Greyscale that has no idea how this game actually works, well maybe he does on PAPER.


Good luck Cryswarm

Most of you have no idea what you are talking about and keep posting in this thread only crap. The current need of usage of titans is a flaw due to a more flawed sov. system. Greyscale is running around for his own tail for weeks. I am down to what ever changes you want but make is so that sbu's, tcu's, ihubs can be killed only by capitals so this way a titan will be a decisive ship to use in sov warfare. Now you are crying that titans blap sub then you will cry that titans blap capitals. You just want them nerfed so you can safely kill everything with Maelstroms and drakes. This game needs to put people to work, think , improvise and not being in the same doctrine and win eve just because shear numbers. CCP is babling all the time that they encourage people to think out of the box and have alot of options available, those options are for people that use their brains

My sugestion: TCU , SBU , IHUB can be killed only by capitals - define a good role for titans ( CCP you started with the obvious role of being anti support ship and since then you change like the wind and you prefer to nerf to oblivion everything
POS: can be reinforced only by capitals )


And here you have the place of titans as being a anti-capital platform.

You presented at fan fest a nice presentation of all the ships from frigs to titans. In that presentation was like this Titan - Slow , Imposing - you can't be imposing when you can't kill ****. It is a pain for me to see this game being developed by Greyscale that has no idea how this game actually works, well maybe he does on PAPER.


Good luck Cryswarm

One of major problem with titans is the tactics & fleet comps that people use to engage them. The other being a hit is guaranteed if the target has 0 trans

Tactics that don't work

• Setting a anchor and orbiting someone
• throwing drakes with sigs the size of carriers at titans
• flying directly at or away from a titan 0 trans ( i have seen intercepters get blaped doing 3kms because they had 0 trans

Tactics that are more successful

• instead of orbiting someone approach someone. their job is to keep trans up on the titan
• use small sig big tank ships a hacs or 100mn ab tengus are really hard for a titan to hit if they keep trans up
• suicide dreads
• energy neutralizing ships welp canes & hero cats

Nerf titans the right way change the way hits are calculated from turret weapons. also on a side note 1400's should not be able to blap frigs while we are fixing things

As for refitting this is just ccp going after something that is not really the "Real" problem for example titans dding sub caps and super carrier drones.

One of major problem with titans is the tactics & fleet comps that people use to engage them. The other being a hit is guaranteed if the target has 0 trans

Tactics that don't work

• Setting a anchor and orbiting someone
• throwing drakes with sigs the size of carriers at titans
• flying directly at or away from a titan 0 trans ( i have seen intercepters get blaped doing 3kms because they had 0 trans

Tactics that are more successful

• instead of orbiting someone approach someone. their job is to keep trans up on the titan
• use small sig big tank ships a hacs or 100mn ab tengus are really hard for a titan to hit if they keep trans up
• suicide dreads
• energy neutralizing ships welp canes & hero cats

Nerf titans the right way change the way hits are calculated from turret weapons. also on a side note 1400's should not be able to blap frigs while we are fixing things

As for refitting this is just ccp going after something that is not really the "Real" problem for example titans dding sub caps and super carrier drones.

You are such a bad. Yeah, Titans DDing subcaps clearly wasn't a problem at all. Also please don't advocate making turrets into missiles, thanks in advance.

I never said it was not a problem you idiot. I just said it was not the real problem because if it was we would not be having this conversation.