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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.22 16:07:00 -
[1]
Is it worth it to train Astromterics to L5 for the extra scan group and the ability to use the Deep Space Observation Probe? Is this probe any good? Are there any other benefits? Thanks.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Noobie Noobsen
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.09.22 16:48:00 -
[2]
actually you are able to use three additional probes:
ferret scanner probe I deep space observation probe I gaze survey probe I (with survey lvl 5, a moon scan probe)
if its worth the extra time, is up to you. but it defenitly useful, to be able, to use all probes. and deep space safe spots are only scanable with these probes.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.23 15:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Noobie Noobsen actually you are able to use three additional probes:
ferret scanner probe I deep space observation probe I gaze survey probe I (with survey lvl 5, a moon scan probe)
if its worth the extra time, is up to you. but it defenitly useful, to be able, to use all probes. and deep space safe spots are only scanable with these probes.
How does the deep space observation probe work? What makes it useful?
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
SynackFin
Caldari Ihatalo Research and Development Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:07:00 -
[4]
Originally by: VJ Maverick How does the deep space observation probe work? What makes it useful?
You can read descriptions of the different probes here, but basically this probe provides immense range at the expense of accuracy... ie. one probe to give a course reading of a large, large area
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: SynackFin
Originally by: VJ Maverick How does the deep space observation probe work? What makes it useful?
You can read descriptions of the different probes here, but basically this probe provides immense range at the expense of accuracy... ie. one probe to give a course reading of a large, large area
Gee, thanks. I know what the official description says. Can someone who actually uses this probe tell me about its merits instead of regurgitating attributes from the item database? How does the operation of this probe differ from using a multispec?
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: VJ Maverick How does the operation of this probe differ from using a multispec?
Multispec is used in exploration to find out what is in the system. It provides no information about where within the system a source is, nor does it help you get closer to your target.
The DS probe will help you to atleast get started on finding your target, but obviously won't get you as close as the shorter range probes.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Originally by: VJ Maverick How does the operation of this probe differ from using a multispec?
Multispec is used in exploration to find out what is in the system. It provides no information about where within the system a source is, nor does it help you get closer to your target.
The DS probe will help you to atleast get started on finding your target, but obviously won't get you as close as the shorter range probes.
So the DS probe will actually provide warp-in points for further scanning? As an alternative to dropping quest probes at each planet?
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.23 20:48:00 -
[8]
As far as exploration goes, I don't think you need past Astrometrics IV.
If you want to probe out ships, you want that deep space probe.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.23 21:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: VJ Maverick So the DS probe will actually provide warp-in points for further scanning? As an alternative to dropping quest probes at each planet?
The DS probe is not intended for exploration, as its scan strength is too weak. It is intended for hunting players.
Exploration sites are always within range to be found from planets. Players are not.
If you want to find someone that is more than 20 AU from a planet, having Astrometrics V will come in handy so that you can use DS and Ferret probes.
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valeronx
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.24 05:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 05:31:17
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Originally by: VJ Maverick The DS probe is not intended for exploration.
Actually it is. The way Exploration is supposed to work is this:
You drop a Multispec to see if there is anything in the system to Probe for. If there is, you drop one Observator to start scanning for the first Probe point. It make take several scans, but that's why they last for a bit over on hour. After you get a hit, then scan on down using finer and finer resolution probes as needed, just as normal.
The reason so many Guides don't mention them and People in general don't use them is the need to train a Lvl V skill. Once you do however, and don't have to spend the time messing around dropping multiple Quests trying to get the best coverage, you'll wish you'd done it sooner.
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Multimorph
Gallente NailorTech Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Originally by: VJ Maverick The DS probe is not intended for exploration.
Actually it is. The way Exploration is supposed to work is this:
You drop a Multispec to see if there is anything in the system to Probe for. If there is, you drop one Observator to start scanning for the first Probe point. It make take several scans, but that's why they last for a bit over on hour. After you get a hit, then scan on down using finer and finer resolution probes as needed, just as normal.
The reason so many Guides don't mention them and People in general don't use them is the need to train a Lvl V skill. Once you do however, and don't have to spend the time messing around dropping multiple Quests trying to get the best coverage, you'll wish you'd done it sooner.
.
A quest probe of the appropriate type has a sensor strength of 250, a deep space probe has a sensor strength of 1. I havent tried using deep space probes for exploration, but given the fact that even with quest probes it usually takes several scans to find a certain site, I would think you will probably die of old age before finding anything with a deep space probe?!
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Spanner Frew
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Posted - 2008.09.24 19:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Spanner Frew on 24/09/2008 19:33:59 Edited by: Spanner Frew on 24/09/2008 19:32:55
Originally by: valeronx Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 05:31:17
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Originally by: VJ Maverick The DS probe is not intended for exploration.
Actually it is. The way Exploration is supposed to work is this:
You drop a Multispec to see if there is anything in the system to Probe for. If there is, you drop one Observator to start scanning for the first Probe point. It make take several scans, but that's why they last for a bit over on hour. After you get a hit, then scan on down using finer and finer resolution probes as needed, just as normal.
The reason so many Guides don't mention them and People in general don't use them is the need to train a Lvl V skill. Once you do however, and don't have to spend the time messing around dropping multiple Quests trying to get the best coverage, you'll wish you'd done it sooner.
.
You must not do much exploration. While I like the idea, it's simply not practical. Getting a hit with a DS probe on an exploration site is 250 times LESS likely than with a quest probe. If it took you a mere 10 scans to get a hit with a quest probe, it could take you 2,500 to get that hit with a DS probe.
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valeronx
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 23:55:59
Originally by: Spanner Frew You must not do much exploration. While I like the idea, it's simply not practical. Getting a hit with a DS probe on an exploration site is 250 times LESS likely than with a quest probe. If it took you a mere 10 scans to get a hit with a quest probe, it could take you 2,500 to get that hit with a DS probe.
Unlucky 15 times is my record. Most times it takes 3-9 scans, just about the same as it usually takes when starting with Quests.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.09.25 07:02:00 -
[14]
Astro V will allow:
Deep Space probes - will allow you to scan for people on "deep spots" or in huge systems, where distances between planets are gigantic. Plus, you can always hope to find an abandoned supercapital ship on deep spot, eh? :)
40AU Recon Probe - a very nice addition to the arsenal of CovOps frigate scout or cloaking Recon pilot with Recon launcher. 40 is bigger than 20 :)
Survey Probe - a handy thing if you ever need to do a lot of moon scanning. Although I must say it doesnt add anything radical to what you can do with other survey probes - just more convenient.
If you think any of these are useful to you - learn it.
--- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
steave435
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.25 07:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: valeronx Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 23:55:59
Originally by: Spanner Frew You must not do much exploration. While I like the idea, it's simply not practical. Getting a hit with a DS probe on an exploration site is 250 times LESS likely than with a quest probe. If it took you a mere 10 scans to get a hit with a quest probe, it could take you 2,500 to get that hit with a DS probe.
Unlucky 15 times is my record. Most times it takes 3-9 scans, just about the same as it usually takes when starting with Quests.
.
Well, I can see your point. The formula that I've seen for the chance to find a site included a part where distance to the site was compared with maximum scan range, and the higher the max range was, the higher the chance of getting a hit, but I don't think that would really make up for a 250 times higher strength
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.25 15:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: valeronx Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 23:55:59
Originally by: Spanner Frew You must not do much exploration. While I like the idea, it's simply not practical. Getting a hit with a DS probe on an exploration site is 250 times LESS likely than with a quest probe. If it took you a mere 10 scans to get a hit with a quest probe, it could take you 2,500 to get that hit with a DS probe.
Unlucky 15 times is my record. Most times it takes 3-9 scans, just about the same as it usually takes when starting with Quests.
.
Well, I can see your point. The formula that I've seen for the chance to find a site included a part where distance to the site was compared with maximum scan range, and the higher the max range was, the higher the chance of getting a hit, but I don't think that would really make up for a 250 times higher strength
This makes sense. Quest probes have 250 times the strength of DS probes but DS probes have 250 times the range. In the final equation (whatever it is) this might actually make for a similar probability of getting a hit, with the quest probes having the obvious advantage of a more precise scan deviation.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Drykor
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.09.25 16:59:00 -
[17]
You also need Astrometrics 5 for jump portal generation. Though most people won't use that.
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Spanner Frew
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Posted - 2008.09.25 21:07:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Spanner Frew on 25/09/2008 21:14:54 Edited by: Spanner Frew on 25/09/2008 21:08:15
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: valeronx Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 23:55:59
Originally by: Spanner Frew Noise
Noise
Well, I can see your point. The formula that I've seen for the chance to find a site included a part where distance to the site was compared with maximum scan range, and the higher the max range was, the higher the chance of getting a hit, but I don't think that would really make up for a 250 times higher strength
This makes sense. Quest probes have 250 times the strength of DS probes but DS probes have 250 times the range. In the final equation (whatever it is) this might actually make for a similar probability of getting a hit, with the quest probes having the obvious advantage of a more precise scan deviation.
I didn't consider that, but it doesn't make a large enough difference. The formula: (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
Even if the site is 4AU away, the quest probe is 91 times more likely to get a hit. It slants even more in favor of the quest probe as you get closer.
Deviation is actually in favor of the DS probe. If the DS probe gets a hit, you'll be well within sift range, the quest...not so much. They should increase the DS deviation to 10 or 20 AU, but that's a tangent.
valeronx: Are you scanning for cosmic anomalies or signatures? Because taking at most 15 scans ever to get a hit on a DS probe sounds impossible.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.09.26 12:05:00 -
[19]
Astrometrics 5 is no less than a necessity if you plan to probe for anything player-made. Salvaging, pvp and all that good stuff benefits a lot.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
steave435
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.27 13:30:00 -
[20]
Edited by: steave435 on 27/09/2008 13:31:45
Originally by: Spanner Frew Edited by: Spanner Frew on 25/09/2008 21:14:54 Edited by: Spanner Frew on 25/09/2008 21:08:15
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: valeronx Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 23:55:59
Originally by: Spanner Frew Noise
Noise
Well, I can see your point. The formula that I've seen for the chance to find a site included a part where distance to the site was compared with maximum scan range, and the higher the max range was, the higher the chance of getting a hit, but I don't think that would really make up for a 250 times higher strength
This makes sense. Quest probes have 250 times the strength of DS probes but DS probes have 250 times the range. In the final equation (whatever it is) this might actually make for a similar probability of getting a hit, with the quest probes having the obvious advantage of a more precise scan deviation.
I didn't consider that, but it doesn't make a large enough difference. The formula: (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
Even if the site is 4AU away, the quest probe is 91 times more likely to get a hit. It slants even more in favor of the quest probe as you get closer.
Deviation is actually in favor of the DS probe. If the DS probe gets a hit, you'll be well within sift range, the quest...not so much. They should increase the DS deviation to 10 or 20 AU, but that's a tangent.
valeronx: Are you scanning for cosmic anomalies or signatures? Because taking at most 15 scans ever to get a hit on a DS probe sounds impossible.
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2. Quest probes will definetly have a higher chance to get a hit fast, but when considering the time saved using pursuit and comb, and the ability to most likely get a hit with the first sift scan instead of spending a while using those too, I can definetly see why they could be useful in exploration aswell, especially considering all the nice deep safespots in locations you can't reach by warping between planets and gates that it will give you, although I would still personally prefer the traditional style with quests.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.27 15:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: steave435
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2.
The DS fits in the recon launcher but the sift does not. Are you suggesting that after you get an initial hit, you dock and refit with a scan probe launcher to use the sift? That doesn't seem very time efficient.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
steave435
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.27 15:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2.
The DS fits in the recon launcher but the sift does not. Are you suggesting that after you get an initial hit, you dock and refit with a scan probe launcher to use the sift? That doesn't seem very time efficient.
Either that or fit both. If there is a station in the system, docking doesn't take long.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.27 17:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2.
The DS fits in the recon launcher but the sift does not. Are you suggesting that after you get an initial hit, you dock and refit with a scan probe launcher to use the sift? That doesn't seem very time efficient.
Either that or fit both.
Go ahead and try fitting both a scan probe launcher and a recon launcher on a single ship and come back and tell us how it went.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.27 22:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: steave435 Edited by: steave435 on 27/09/2008 13:31:45
Originally by: Spanner Frew Edited by: Spanner Frew on 25/09/2008 21:14:54 Edited by: Spanner Frew on 25/09/2008 21:08:15
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: valeronx Edited by: valeronx on 24/09/2008 23:55:59
Originally by: Spanner Frew Noise
Noise
Stuff
Noise
Stuff
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2. Quest probes will definetly have a higher chance to get a hit fast, but when considering the time saved using pursuit and comb, and the ability to most likely get a hit with the first sift scan instead of spending a while using those too, I can definetly see why they could be useful in exploration aswell, especially considering all the nice deep safespots in locations you can't reach by warping between planets and gates that it will give you, although I would still personally prefer the traditional style with quests.
You can get 3.75 times more scans in with a recon probe launcher, so in a given period of time, you're still 24 times more likely to get a hit with a quest probe.
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steave435
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.28 00:09:00 -
[25]
Edited by: steave435 on 28/09/2008 00:10:01
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2.
The DS fits in the recon launcher but the sift does not. Are you suggesting that after you get an initial hit, you dock and refit with a scan probe launcher to use the sift? That doesn't seem very time efficient.
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buzzardprobewf8.jpg Add implants and you can online some other stuff too Either that or fit both.
Go ahead and try fitting both a scan probe launcher and a recon launcher on a single ship and come back and tell us how it went.
Here you go. Add implants and you can online other things
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Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.28 03:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: steave435 Edited by: steave435 on 28/09/2008 00:10:01
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Stuff
Go ahead and try fitting both a scan probe launcher and a recon launcher on a single ship and come back and tell us how it went.
Here you go. Add implants and you can online other things
EFT needs a whoopin'. In the description of both probe launchers is this oft missed gem, "Only one probe launcher can be fitted per ship."
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.09.28 07:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: steave435 Edited by: steave435 on 28/09/2008 00:10:01
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: steave435
I also forgot to mention that the observator probe fits in a recon launcher, so you can make alot more scans in a certain amount of time, and it allows you to skip the pursuit and comb steps of the probing, and when you finally get a hit, you're so close that the sift will be very likely to find the site in just a scan or 2.
The DS fits in the recon launcher but the sift does not. Are you suggesting that after you get an initial hit, you dock and refit with a scan probe launcher to use the sift? That doesn't seem very time efficient.
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buzzardprobewf8.jpg Add implants and you can online some other stuff too Either that or fit both.
Go ahead and try fitting both a scan probe launcher and a recon launcher on a single ship and come back and tell us how it went.
Here you go. Add implants and you can online other things
LOL - Like, I said, go ahead and actually try this in-game and tell us how it went:) Seriously though, EFT is wrong on this one.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Hoshi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.28 07:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: steave435
Here you go. Add implants and you can online other things
EFT warriors FTL. Fitting a second probe launcher will increase the CPU usage of the first to somewhere around 10.000. For a while it actually was possible to use 2 if you fitted them as the last 2 mods but later it was changed so that you could no longer undock if you used more cpu than was available.
As for using observators for exploration it's not practical. I guess you could potentially use them to find anomalies but even for that they ineffective. Using them for real exploration, sure you will get a hit once or twice per year but you are wasting a LOT of time. As said earlier in the thread even taking into account strength reduction due to time and shorter scan time you are still looking at around 100 times longer in avg. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.09.28 07:58:00 -
[29]
I dont understand why they made it so you can only fit one :-(
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steave435
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.29 09:06:00 -
[30]
Quote: LOL - Like, I said, go ahead and actually try this in-game and tell us how it went:) Seriously though, EFT is wrong on this one.
Ok, I wasn't aware of that, but wouldn't it still be possible to f.e. offline the scan launcher and when you need it, offline the recon one and then online the scan? Like I mentioned earlier, I still definetly agree that the traditional method is preferable, my point is just that it could be a viable option for people that would like to be lazy and just need to launch a single probe instead of warping around creating bookmarks to be able to get full cover with quests.
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