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Sarutobi Sasuke
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Posted - 2008.09.24 03:28:00 -
[1]
OK so when marauders came out, everyone was expecting a be-all-end-all ship that would wtfbbqpwn everything. Instead we got the marauders. Time has passed and everyone's gotten over the fact that they have pitiful sensor strengths seeing as they are close to impractical for pvp anyway. But the one thing that I can't get over is the fact that the golem is the only marauder that does NOT get a dps bonus anywhere. Where the hell did CCP pull explosion velocity bonus out of? Isn't that what the target painter bonus is kinda supposed to do? It's bad enough that missiles can and will be shot down by defenders from rats (not too bad if you use torps). Every other ship that didn't get a dps bonus in its T1 form gets it such as the paladin. What is going on? It's not like we'd be "overpowering" the golem. Those who are strong turret advocates will always stick with turrets anyway. Stop being so prejudiced against caldari ships please.
P.S. You only have to look at the Guristas ships to see my point of "misplaced" bonuses!!!
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Kransthow
Sage Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.24 04:01:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke OK so when marauders came out, everyone was expecting a be-all-end-all ship that would wtfbbqpwn everything.
nope
It has the equivalent of 8 launchers so stop whining
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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.24 04:49:00 -
[3]
They are so bad that people buy CNRs instead of flying them... oh wait.... ç¦ |
Sarutobi Sasuke
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Posted - 2008.09.24 05:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kransthow
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke OK so when marauders came out, everyone was expecting a be-all-end-all ship that would wtfbbqpwn everything.
nope
It has the equivalent of 8 launchers so stop whining
how about you stop for a second and use your brain? it has 8 launchers worth of ammo fired at once, yes. but it gets no rate of fire bonus. CNR - 7 with 5%/lvl rate of fire. use your head that is gathering dust for a second 7 x 1.25 (caldari battleship V) = 8.75 launchers worth. The golem gets no such bonus but the other ships do. So stop posting your dumb stuff and learn to research the game a bit before you make a fool of yourself
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Sarutobi Sasuke
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Posted - 2008.09.24 05:40:00 -
[5]
also, if you are using cruise missiles then for every 1 missile that gets shot down to defenders, it's the equivalent of losing 2. pwnt once again, fool
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Shassandra
Gallente Kinetic Vector
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Posted - 2008.09.24 06:17:00 -
[6]
But you have extra high-slots for all those utility, and a bonus to tractors so you can tractor and salvage all you kill, without getting your designated salvager first. You lose out on a little damage (0.75 launcher worth of damage) but get the joy of not having ninja-salvagers come bother you.
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OneT
Wicked Weasels
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Posted - 2008.09.24 07:27:00 -
[7]
Edited by: OneT on 24/09/2008 07:28:57 firstly i fly a golem daily b4 the op tells me off fo not knowing what im talking about.
the golem (and all marauders for that mater) where designed to b for solo ratting (and by assosiation turned out to b perfect missioning) shit so you could head for 0.0 for a week without needing to come back for ammo or the like.
so they have a perfect setup for this they hit much harder than a raven unless your fitting it crap (not quite as hard as a CNR but u cant fit your tracter salvager and cloak or another salvager for missions to the cnr with that DPS now can you) and they have a big cargo hold and they have none of the tracking problems that any of the other marauders have on small targets which they hit hard anyways only on very rare occasions i have to bring out my drones cause im not patiant.
bassically if DPS is wot your after get a CNR and STFU if u want to use a golem for its intended purpose get a golem and STFU.
i personally for what i do prefer a golem.
oh and post with you'r main
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.24 08:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke also, if you are using cruise missiles then for every 1 missile that gets shot down to defenders, it's the equivalent of losing 2. pwnt once again, fool
Oh FFS, how many times does it have to be said: NPC defenders are chance-based per missile. No matter how many missiles you fire, you lose the same percentage of them to NPC defenders. 4 launchers x 100% gives exactly the same damage as 8 launchers. This has been confirmed, multiple times, by both CCP and player testing.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke
how about you stop for a second and use your brain? it has 8 launchers worth of ammo fired at once, yes. but it gets no rate of fire bonus. CNR - 7 with 5%/lvl rate of fire. use your head that is gathering dust for a second 7 x 1.25 (caldari battleship V) = 8.75 launchers worth. The golem gets no such bonus but the other ships do. So stop posting your dumb stuff and learn to research the game a bit before you make a fool of yourself
Slight correction. CNR has RoF bonus so 7/0.75 ~ 9.3 'effective' launchers. Thats approx 15% advantage over Golem. On paper. In reality they are different ships. Golem is fine. If anything people should complain about Rattlesnakes as Golem replaced Rattle as heavy tank - as far as PvE goes.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Batolemaeus Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke also, if you are using cruise missiles then for every 1 missile that gets shot down to defenders, it's the equivalent of losing 2. pwnt once again, fool
Get the heck out out F&I, seriously.
Not only do you come here trolling and insulting, your posts lack understanding of the subject even on the most basic level.
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Krollin
Minmatar Ki Shoda
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:49:00 -
[11]
Where do these people come from!
I have to say if your still using Cruise Missiles then get back into a CNR, real pilots use Torps on the Golem!
"A bad work-person always blame their tools"
Kro
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.09.24 12:03:00 -
[12]
You complain about defenders taking away 2 cruise missiles worth of damage, but I've never heard any turret users complain about 1 tracking disruptor taking out 8 turrets worth of damage.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.09.24 13:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kerfira on 24/09/2008 13:36:38
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke OK so when marauders came out, everyone was expecting a be-all-end-all ship that would wtfbbqpwn everything.
No... CCP was QUITE clear that it wouldn't! So your 'everyone' covers about.... 'you' (and anyone else not bothering to read what CCP said).
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke But the one thing that I can't get over is the fact that the golem is the only marauder that does NOT get a dps bonus anywhere.
It doesn't need one. It is enough of a DPS bonus over the Raven (and CNR) that it is a torp ship that is actually pretty easy to fit.
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke Where the hell did CCP pull explosion velocity bonus out of? Isn't that what the target painter bonus is kinda supposed to do?
For a torp ship it makes perfect sense, and is probably better than a direct DPS bonus.
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke It's bad enough that missiles can and will be shot down by defenders from rats (not too bad if you use torps).
Why the hell are you fitting cruise missiles on a torp boat?
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke Every other ship that didn't get a dps bonus in its T1 form gets it such as the paladin. What is going on?
Having a DPS bonus on the golem would make it even more unbalanced for a mission ship. Caldari ships are already too good, so it is a good game balance call from CCP's side.
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke It's not like we'd be "overpowering" the golem.
Oh yes it would be! It already out-DPS the other marauders by a significant margin in missions, not to mention being far easier to fly (no need to worry about transversal etc.).
So no... CCP won't (and shouldn't) help you earn precious ISK faster by giving the Golem more DPS. It is already much better at it overall than any other ship so don't need it anyway!
PS: Yes, I do fly a Golem. It earns me much more than my CNR did. The CNR was high-end faction fitted, but the Golem only needs a couple lower faction modules to run like a dream. My earnings have probably gone up by at least 30%, mainly due to the tractors...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Sarutobi Sasuke
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Posted - 2008.09.24 14:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke also, if you are using cruise missiles then for every 1 missile that gets shot down to defenders, it's the equivalent of losing 2. pwnt once again, fool
Oh FFS, how many times does it have to be said: NPC defenders are chance-based per missile. No matter how many missiles you fire, you lose the same percentage of them to NPC defenders. 4 launchers x 100% gives exactly the same damage as 8 launchers. This has been confirmed, multiple times, by both CCP and player testing.
you're wrongon this. this is based on my personal experimenting that rats fire a certain number of defenders each and then it just depends on whether your missiles get shot down or not. Torps take 3 defenders to shoot down.
And I never use cruise missiles except on my CNR's anymore. Just making a point of fact that IF you lost 1 cruise missile to defenders, it'd be the equivalent of losing 2.
Batolemaeus, make a point instead of posting something that makes even less sense than my silly rage replies. "get out of F&I. you don't know anything" yeah man, that's really logical and explaining exactly what it is I supposedly don't know about.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Batolemaeus Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 15:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke
you're wrongon this.
Nope, you are wrong.
It's called statistics. If 50% of your missiles get shot down by defenders, it's still 50 percent of your damage, regardless of weapon bonuses.
It's that simple really. People who argue against it fail at math.
By the way, "your personal experience" does not count here. I did some statistical analysis on this (yes, i'm someone who does things like that), and what devs said is true: defenders are chance based.
Now get your facts straight before posting any more "pwnt once again, fool" shitposts.
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Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.09.24 15:56:00 -
[16]
you carebears are such an angry bunch Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.24 16:33:00 -
[17]
use torps and close to range so the defender missiles don't have time to hit. it certainly works well ratting in 0.0.
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Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.09.24 19:20:00 -
[18]
golem is better than raven - simple fact
CNR is tight on the fittings, i own TORP cnr
i want a torpedo golem, torpedoes perform much better for PVE content
torpedo boats require more skill and attention, but with 5 mill SP and proper setup you will do a lot more damage
golem is actually a very good ship, you can fit it to fire very precise cruise missiles with rigor rigs add a painter and you will never need small drones
you can fit your golem with torpedoes and target painters, it is pretty awesome
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Chillshock
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Posted - 2008.09.24 19:27:00 -
[19]
I fly a torp CNR and use my Golem to salvage. Its perfect for the job! :)
Marauders are ok, I guess. Matter of taste.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.24 19:28:00 -
[20]
Quote: but get the joy of not having ninja-salvagers come bother you.
Actually wrong. Any halfway decent ninja can take any wrecks you attempt to salvage.
On the other hand, you can salvage the wrecks from before he arrives.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.25 04:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Straight Chillen you carebears are such an angry bunch
MMMMMEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW
.... oops i mean ROAR.
the golem is fine not having the same bonuses as the others (vargur is only one that doesn't get a ew bonus but that's not a problem). It just adds a little variety to how the ships work, some are stronger in different areas than others as long as overall the ships (or the races) are balanced and as long as no ships are completely useless it's fine.
CCP please look at mining agent mining mission %..... I want better than 60% mining missions from a mining agent =( |
Kransthow
Sage Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.25 06:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke
Originally by: Kransthow
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke OK so when marauders came out, everyone was expecting a be-all-end-all ship that would wtfbbqpwn everything.
nope
It has the equivalent of 8 launchers so stop whining
how about you stop for a second and use your brain? it has 8 launchers worth of ammo fired at once, yes. but it gets no rate of fire bonus. CNR - 7 with 5%/lvl rate of fire. use your head that is gathering dust for a second 7 x 1.25 (caldari battleship V) = 8.75 launchers worth. The golem gets no such bonus but the other ships do. So stop posting your dumb stuff and learn to research the game a bit before you make a fool of yourself
Sigh...
When we look at the base raven hull it has 6 launchers, its T2 counterpart has an effective 8 launchers.
On the other hand the megathron hull has 7 turrets, its T2 counterpart has an effective 8 turrets and some damage bonus to make up for the inequality between it and the golem. Same deal with the poc.
I'm not sure about the tempest but whatever it is it's still a tempest (lol).
Trying to balance T2 ships with their faction versions is rather silly as on a whole as faction ships generally are slightly better in all aspects whereas T2 ships are usually designed to excell in one specific role.
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Kransthow
Sage Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.25 06:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke also, if you are using cruise missiles then for every 1 missile that gets shot down to defenders, it's the equivalent of losing 2. pwnt once again, fool
Perhaps if you did some research and looked around a little you would realise this is not the case.
Crawl back to your decrepit hallow troll and return only when you have more brain cells than shitposts.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.25 08:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sarutobi Sasuke OK so when marauders came out, everyone was expecting a be-all-end-all ship that would wtfbbqpwn everything.
Your statement rather broke down at this point. No ship in EVE should be a be-all-end-all solo invincible ship, even if currently some seem like it. The entire point of balance is that a ship should always have a weakness requiring a second pilot or a gang to compensate for (perhaps more specifically in PvP, but that is still a valid problem).
If, as I expect & hope, the new missions in Empyrean Age 1.2 present slightly more variety than 'lets' add 100 more Damsel in Distress missions slightly reworded', one could hope that we'll actually see more missions that a single ship struggles with - rewarding either group play or very experienced solo play, both of which are laudable goals. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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