I honestly can't believe the stupid reaction you took in response to "that guy's" comments. Whoever is on your legal department needs to be fired. Any company with any sort of self preservation would have responded with a drastic form separation from "him".

Also, responding with a 30 ban? Do you guys not even watch the news? Check the world news and read about what go's on the UK and the US related to "Cyber-Bullying."

Here, let me help your legal department: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&q=cyber+bullying&oq=cyber+bul&aq=1&aqi=d1g1d1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1356l3778l0l5241l11l11l1l4l4l0l105l507l5.1l6l0

For the sake of your company and the game I love so much, wake up!

http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march

Hes gonna test them.

Showing that he has no freaking understanding that what he did was wrong and that he is still getting of light.

Listen to him pretty much try to not man up about taking responsibility for his own actions.

From the guys that scream HTFU. This is their leader. A man that would not HTFU when time came for him to do so and be a leader and be a man.

GOGO INTERNET LAWYER MIGHT SPOUTING INTERNET LAWYER YEAH!

In the US Cyberbully laws only apply to those under the age of 18. Also I'm pretty sure the "target" or legal guardian/caretaker has to complain. Of course I am not one of those elite arm chair lawyers so it's possible I'm making **** up or have had bad sources.

This thread is a literal goldmine of terrible people posting about terrible things that they know nothing about. Thrill yourselves all around and may God have mercy on your terrible souls.

This just in. California is everywhere.

Exactly!

Neither CCP nor "that person" are subject to California's local laws. What about the "target" of this harassment? If he lives there then MAYBE you have a leg to stand on.

IIRC I'm going to tell someone to die in a fire tonight in local. Someone please call the internet police, and I don't mean CONCORD.

I used it as a mere example. I forgot I'm arguing with the "EVE" forums. To hell with it. I made my point. Moving On.

This just in. California is everywhere.

Speech good except for the throw me under the bus trying to guilt trip. He seriously didn't expect a temp ban?

Was your point that you are an overreacting drama-queen/quasi Internets-lawyer?

As much as I dislike the goons, this whole thing has been vastly thrown out of proportion.

This just in, you are subject to the laws of the US even abroad.

This. I started playing Eve to kill Goons, and now I'm inadvertantly thrust to their side of the issue because the rest of the carebears can't find room in their panties for their freshly descended ********* and are just in the WORST mood about it.

Game greifing, perfectly fun, what I love most about eve.

Joking about someone committing suicide and hinting at possible encouragement of such act. Honestly, where do people not see something wrong with that?

The dude joked about a guy committing suicide. (And The Wis may have some under lying condition that people don't know about.) Line crossed, thanks for playing, time for you do something else with your free time. Mr. Alexander Gianturco perception of reality and gaming has blurred.

In a hyper politically correct world, you have to be careful what you say. There are social norms, and this isn't being recognized.

I'm totally sure the Federal US is going to push for extradition for internet spaceships.

Wait wasnt all this stuff said and done in Iceland where the US has no juristiction?

"Guys, its TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE to extend EVE grudges to real life." ~*attempts to get a nerd extradited and tried in criminal court over an off-color joke*~

This just in, you are subject to the laws of the US even abroad.

I live in the US, and I couldn't give two fks about what california law says, because I don't live there. The idea that california state laws will have jurisdiction outside of its state border, much less in a foreign country, is laughably stupid at the least.


the application of US laws overseas on US citizens is very specific on a case-by-case basis that usually involves federal statutes/treaties, not state laws. Generally speaking, if you're in a foreign country, you're bound by the local laws and are under their jurisdiction. A US military member is bound by the UCMJ regardless of where he is at for example, but if you drive down the autobahn at 150 mph or smoke pot in Amsterdam, you're not gonna get prosecuted when you return stateside, even though both are illegal in just about every state.

I honestly can't believe the stupid reaction you took in response to "that guy's" comments. Whoever is on your legal department needs to be fired. Any company with any sort of self preservation would have responded with a drastic form separation from "him".

You are subject to US laws while abroad.

Basically if you break a US law in another country you can be brought up on charges in the US for that crime.

This came about in the lat 90s early 00s because of the sex tours to other countries.

You missed the point, I guess i should have posted every US state law there was. That's the problem in utilizing samples, people take it at face value and that's it. I USED THIS AS A SAMPLE! There's obviously a ton of laws on cyber bullying, harassment, etc. What I accept as "common knowledge" isn't as common as I thought.

Regardless of that show us where he broke Federal US law then. So far all we have is California law and I don't think either person in question lives there, and if one of them did they would have to use the federal government to prosecute across state lines.

Interesting I'd have to look that up.

In the military we were subject to both military and local laws but as a citizen abroad I'm not sure as I know several vacation spots are popular, like Germany, do to a drinking age lower than ours.

Regardless of that show us where he broke Federal US law then. So far all we have is California law and I don't think either person in question lives there, and if one of them did they would have to use the federal government to prosecute across state lines.

Also you know what I just remembered, The Mittani is a lawyer, he should know this **** better than most of us lol.

Game greifing, perfectly fun, what I love most about eve.

Joking about someone committing suicide and hinting at possible encouragement of such act. Honestly, where do people not see something wrong with that?

The dude joked about a guy committing suicide. (And The Wis may have some under lying condition that people don't know about.) Line crossed, thanks for playing, time for you do something else with your free time. Mr. Alexander Gianturco perception of reality and gaming has blurred.

In a hyper politically correct world, you have to be careful what you say. There are social norms, and this isn't being recognized.

there are many states with laws on cyber bullying, none of which have jurisdiction outside of their state border, which is where this occurred, unless you think Iceland is the 51th state. That is what you and rouge operator aren't getting.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be enraged or pissed off about this, that's your opinion and you're certainly welcome to it, but on the subject of the applicable laws you're factually incorrect.

You are partially correct. I know of a case in which a man from Alabama was charged with the death of his wife while they were on their honeymoon in Australia. I'd have to look at what part of the United States Code gives the government authorization to do it, but I'm assuming it would be because the suspect was an American citizen, as was his wife.

~ eve is real ~

our "hyper politically correct world" only exists because you choose to be a part of it

You are partially correct. I know of a case in which a man from Alabama was charged with the death of his wife while they were on their honeymoon in Australia. I'd have to look at what part of the United States Code gives the government authorization to do it, but I'm assuming it would be because the suspect was an American citizen, as was his wife.

Second, Mittens is either an aspiring lawyer, a lawyer currently, or a "retired" lawyer depending on which lie the Goons want to propagate.

No I think the issue is you failed to make a point. Or rather your point was here >.< and the issue is over there ----------->

you referring to the Jita-burn campaign that's planned? personally I have zero issue with that, as that really exemplifies what EVE is all about. As long as it's conducted properly within the boundaries of the game, I see no problem with it.

as far as why some people aren't all up in arms over this incident... it depends on each person's experience and perspective. People who may have had to deal with suicides in their families and friends would obviously react differently to those who didn't. Others may view people who threatens suicides in a more contemptuous light than you do. Others, me included in this category, may have seen much worse things than this in life, which again puts things in a different perspective.

Compared to to people who've died and suffered in war zones, and/or are living in abject poverty, or any other myriad of far more egregious injustices in the world, a tasteless drunken comment at a internet spaceship game convention that objectively did little actual harm simply doesn't seem that big of a deal to me.

Point was made - there are laws against cyber bullying. We dont know if they apply to the parties invloved becasue we dont know their laws.

I used it as a mere example. I forgot I'm arguing with the "EVE" forums. To hell with it. I made my point. Moving On.

nobody seems to know if either party involved is subject to these laws.

Sadly this is not what my intent was, read my above comments and you will see this thread is more of a focus on what I view as weak risk management on the part of CCP.

And banned from posting forever.

OK then

CCP Games Hf is an Icelandic company/entity and has no legal responsibility for the actions of it's clients.

How is that?

A synopsis of Misato's rambling:
It"s against the law! CCP's legal department doesn't know the law like I do the game will be shut down shortly!
(Proved worng on every point. Plus you and your kind are why tort reform is so sorely needed here in the US)
Misato trying to save face:
Well maybe it's not against the legal law but it's against the moral law!
(Please unsunscribe from the game and go away. Man is again the measure of all things if you haven't noticed lately but mostly go away for starting another thread where you could have just added to the other dozen or so. Which indicates you are nothing more than a mere drama queen)

But public image is, and in the case of CCP, it is something they've been fighting to fix for that past 9 months, since incarna.

CCP is a company and at the end of the day, it has its own priorities to protect itself from what other people say. Why do you think advertisers remove their ads from radio stations when a DJ says something stupid.

Guilty by association, it's how people think

#1:Morale high ground

#2: Legal issues related to one of your clients doing something stupid and one of your conferences, that you moderated. And however weak and doubtful they have been, they last think you would want as a company is your name and cyber bullying in the same article.

OK... Martha Stewart "served five months in a West Virginia federal prison" and still owns a large business and does business with other people and companies.

The Mittani mouthed off and is not even subject to his own state's local laws on the subject (I looked them up but out of respect, and forum rules, I won't hand out his home state or any other personal information, go look it up yourself and then keep it to yourself). Check this out http://www.cyberbullying.us/Bullying_and_Cyberbullying_Laws.pdf and look at all those "NO"s for "Off Campus".

Wait off campus! HOLY **** this only applies to school children.

I propose that CCP is not even slightly legally responsible.

PR.... All respects to CCP Manifest but he should be working some long hours just to keep an eye on things.


*sings a ditty about ship toasting*

Cyber bullying and Cyber Harassment have been used interchangeably for sometime now without regard to the age/campus limitation.

But the fact that this is coming up now in news articles with the terms "cyber bullying", "harassment", etc.. Do I need even make this point...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116503-Eve-Online-Panel-Encourages-Harassing-Suicidal-Player

http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/28/eve-online-sm-council-chairman-intending-to-resign-over-suicidal-remarks-at-fanfest/comment-page-1/

http://www.develop-online.net/news/40327/Eve-man-ashamed-and-sorry-for-suicide-jokes

http://games.on.net/article/15232/EVE_Online_SM_Council_Chairman_to_Resign_After_Public_Mockery_of_Suicidal_Player_at_Fanfest

Cyber bullying and Cyber Harassment have been used interchangeably for sometime now without regard to the age/campus limitation.

But the fact that this is coming up now in news articles with the terms "cyber bullying", "harassment", etc.. Do I need even make this point...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116503-Eve-Online-Panel-Encourages-Harassing-Suicidal-Player

http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/28/eve-online-sm-council-chairman-intending-to-resign-over-suicidal-remarks-at-fanfest/comment-page-1/

http://www.develop-online.net/news/40327/Eve-man-ashamed-and-sorry-for-suicide-jokes

http://games.on.net/article/15232/EVE_Online_SM_Council_Chairman_to_Resign_After_Public_Mockery_of_Suicidal_Player_at_Fanfest

Cool story, I'm glad that the media can decide what counts as harassment. With a small modicum of research you can go look up the relevant harassment statues and see for yourself that it was not:
- Cyberbullying (not a school kid)
- Harassment in general (didn't know the guy's real name)
- Cyberharassment (wasn't harassment)

At most, you got that Mittens had an unfortunate lapse in judgment and broke the TOS/EULA resulting in a 30 day ban. Which he owned up to like a champ.

-Liang

Cool story, I'm glad that the media can decide what counts as harassment. With a small modicum of research you can go look up the relevant harassment statues and see for yourself that it was not:
- Cyberbullying (not a school kid)
- Harassment in general (didn't know the guy's real name)
- Cyberharassment (wasn't harassment)

At most, you got that Mittens had an unfortunate lapse in judgment and broke the TOS/EULA resulting in a 30 day ban. Which he owned up to like a champ.

-Liang

Show me where the EULA covers what you do out of game.

Does the fact that he named the person individually make this a TOS/EULA violatoin? Because about once a year Helicity Boson organizes and event that is eve advertised by CCP whose sole bases is to suicide gank miners as much as you possibly could. GRANTED I don't remember Mittani's exact words at the moment but I do know he said to go suicide gank this guy.

I guess the distinction is the intended results of said actions? Suicide vs Carebear Tears?

My personal opinion is that this wasn't covered by the EULA or TOS. CCP disagreed with me in the dev blog, and Mittens isn't inclined to make waves over it. I see no point in fighting about it.

-Liang

not fighting with you, the point needed to be made.

Excuse me - I meant fighting with CCP over it.

-Liang

This just in, you are subject to the laws of the US even abroad.