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Dagrin RDM
The Leather Knights Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.09.27 22:29:00 -
[61]
Barring some legal reasoning (that you think they would have known about before the first election), I'd say 18 could be considered a reasonable limit, but 21 is stupid.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.09.28 00:50:00 -
[62]
I like LVV as a CSM, but even if I didn't I'd be quite confused by this. It is, of course, possible that this is just something forced upon CCP by law somehow, and I'm hardly in a position to dispute the interpretation of Icelandic law they've gotten from their lawyers(though according to Wikipedia, the age of majority is 18 in Iceland, and only 21 in 13 small countries and Mississippi).
But assuming it wasn't a lawyerly mandate, I can't understand what they're trying to avoid here. They know first-hand that younger people can be effective, intelligent, and mature representatives, and I'm sure I'm sure that Icelandic politics isn't so foreign that there's never been a childish buffoon well over the age of 21 elected. This doesn't make sense as a "We want CSMers to be people worth consulting with" move, and unless they feel a need to follow the age of consent in Chad or Singapore, it also doesn't make sense as a legal move, especially given that they've shown a willingness to accept parents cosigning NDAs. And even if they weren't willing to accept that, they should say "Must have achieved the age of majority in both your home country and Iceland", not a flat 21. It still wouldn't help LVV for this cycle, to my understanding of his age, but it'd be better for all involved going forward. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
shuckstar
Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2008.09.28 03:44:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Verone Fully support this.
Vista has been one of the most levelheaded guys in the CSM so far.
This, and supported.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.09.28 06:25:00 -
[64]
The age limit should be the lowest of the age one is considered an adult in the candidates home country and Iceland. As much as younger people can contribute, there are very good legal reasons to have this set.
It really is a question for the lawyers.
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Protheroe
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Posted - 2008.09.28 07:13:00 -
[65]
I've yet to hear a sensible justification for this move. |
B'wana
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.28 08:47:00 -
[66]
I understand there is a CSM meeting today, how much you want to bet they take the easy way to eliminate one of competition in the upcoming election and do not even discuss this.
^^^sig zone indicator^^^
PR troll of Treelox |
Shikari Sween
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.28 11:58:00 -
[67]
Thumbs up, really needs a looking into
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Banni Vinda
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.09.28 12:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: SencneS It's a simple as this, since LaVista Vista has already signed an NDA and is legally bound by an NDA he doesn't need to sign another. So legally CCP and LaVista Vista AND the parent/legal guardian who signed the NDA are covered.
There is no legal reason why LaVista Vista should NOT be able to run again.
My thoughts exactly. LaVista Vista has shown himself to be as mature as the rest of the CSM (possibly even more so in some cases). Changing the rules like this after the fact, when it was brought up and accepted prior to the first CSM seems mighty unfair to me. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.09.28 15:13:00 -
[69]
Originally by: B'wana I understand there is a CSM meeting today, how much you want to bet they take the easy way to eliminate one of competition in the upcoming election and do not even discuss this.
First off, such an obviously undemocratic move would get them hammered in the vote. Secondly, a bunch of them won't be running again, and thus have no reason to block LVV even if they were inclined towards such behaviour. Thirdly, they're not all complete *******s. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.09.28 15:22:00 -
[70]
fourthly the issue came up after the deadline for submission to discuss at the meeting - no doubt it will be on the agenda for the next meeting tho or possibly the meeting with the devs. ----------------------
CSM 08 Blog |
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Ranamar
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Posted - 2008.09.28 17:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Mukatsuku Having an age limit is cool. Preventing a well known, proven CSM from running again.. NOT COOL. Get your act together CCP...
My sentiments exactly... (also in favor of suggestions to reduce it to 18...)
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Dierdra Vaal
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.09.28 20:10:00 -
[72]
Changing the rules under the current circumstances is just odd. Normally this wouldnt matter, but since we have a CSM member under 21 its a bit of an exception. The rule itself is ok, but an exception should be made for LVV.
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.28 20:57:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 28/09/2008 20:57:25 Yes for the exception no for removing the new rule.
If you were elected as a CSM in the previous election or an alternate in the previous election you should be allowed to run again dispite the age limit. New applicants should be required to be 21 years of age. --
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steejans nix
0beron Construct Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2008.09.28 21:52:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Protheroe I've yet to hear a sensible justification for this move.
And whats the odds we ever will hear a creditable reason ?
Supported not only to allow vista the chance to run but all players over 18 or so as we the voters should decide who gets in.
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Gerard Deneth
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.09.29 02:46:00 -
[75]
I support LV's re-election.
Additionally, if a parent signs for the minor, wouldn't that take care of concerns regarding liability?
---------------------------- The Game's always changing under your feet; don't start moaning when you get a toe caught in the gears. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.09.29 04:52:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Gerard Deneth I support LV's re-election.
Additionally, if a parent signs for the minor, wouldn't that take care of concerns regarding liability?
That is correct. And this was also the case with my NDA, thus making it valid. This invalidates Xhagen's claim that it's due to legal reasons.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.09.29 06:01:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 29/09/2008 06:01:41
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Gerard Deneth I support LV's re-election.
Additionally, if a parent signs for the minor, wouldn't that take care of concerns regarding liability?
That is correct. And this was also the case with my NDA, thus making it valid. This invalidates Xhagen's claim that it's due to legal reasons.
Exactly, any nay-sayers are full of fail and po0pey.
and like to take it in the p0oper.
****. _
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Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.29 12:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/09/2008 12:04:00 Bizarre - especially considering I've held mature debates with 15 year olds and heard thoroughly immature rubbish from 30 year olds... Blanket generalisations never go anywhere good.
Edit: Besides, at the age of 18, in a lot of countries, you're old enough to drink, drive, vote, and have sex (preferably not at the same time) - I dare say those are vastly more important issues than whether or not you participate in a CSM about an Internet game, so 21 seems a very odd choice. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Smertrios
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.29 15:38:00 -
[79]
Its not fair on LV and he has been doing arguably the best job on the CSM.
Either give him an exception to the rule or better yet lower the age to something more sensible like 18. |
Tecam Hund
The Buggers
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Posted - 2008.09.29 19:08:00 -
[80]
If there is a limit it should be 18.
Any 21 year old limits are ridiculous anyway, including underage drinking related laws.
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Nypon
Unseen University
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Posted - 2008.09.29 19:56:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Nypon on 29/09/2008 19:56:34 Not only does the iclandic eqvivalent to Systembolaget only have two sorts of ale and trappist beer, this is even more backwards.
Drop it to 18.
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Urban Mongral
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Posted - 2008.09.29 20:27:00 -
[82]
Viva LaVista!! |
Fraszoid
Condottieri Industries The Economy
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Posted - 2008.09.29 20:35:00 -
[83]
LeVista Vista should get grandfathered in because he has already signed all the legal documents from last time, and has proven him self a valuable member of the CSM. Also 18 is more reasonable for democracy, and that is age of majority in most countries. -------------------------------------------------- Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at: http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |
olyyy
V I R I I
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Posted - 2008.09.29 21:03:00 -
[84]
Agreed. Another solution must be found.
I am also very disappointed to see that such a thread is necessary...
Men never lie more than before elections, during war and after hunting. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:27:00 -
[85]
In England, at eighteen you're considered mature enough to:
*Vote in elections *Join the army and die for your country *Get married without parental consent *Become a local councillor *Purchase alcohol
But according to CCP, you're not mature enough to discuss internet spaceships. |
Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:47:00 -
[86]
To mostly steal from the above author:
In the United States, at eighteen you're considered mature enough to:
*Vote in elections *Join the army and kill/die for your country *Get married without parental consent *Run for local office *Purchase cigaretts
But according to CCP, you're not mature enough to discuss rulings about a game that accepts 13-year-olds as players.
Yeah. Right. Come'on CCP! Get your collective heads out of your butts and re-think this! |
Achuni
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Posted - 2008.09.30 11:40:00 -
[87]
Signed |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:00:00 -
[88]
but isn't the drinking age in iceland 20?
just saying
oh and support
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:22:00 -
[89]
This is not part of my sig. |
Selisity
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:03:00 -
[90]
Supporting a grandfather clause. |
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