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takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.28 02:27:00 -
[1]
Ok first off this is not a carebear crying about getting beat, it is more of a question of is this allowed by CCP, and would appricate a devs responce here.
Today while running a mission with my 2 toons I got probed down by a cov opts, no big deal salvage isnt a hugh issuse for me. Now here I am in a .8 system doing this mission then a transport ship warps in, knowing full well where this was going i lock on to him with the raven pilot other toon was just a logistics domi nothing speacial, of course he steals a can i start firing on him to run him out of my mission so I can finis and grab the mission specific item needed to complete.
Now this is where it gets interesting, all of a sudden i got a logistics pilot in the room with me helping the transpot he instantly turns red but I keep working on the transport since he got there late and was hoping to get lucky, next thing i know a second logistics ship warps in and all three are now red, and the two logistics pilots have both my ships jammed never firing on the logistics ships i woundered how they where able to avoid concord, needless to say I'm out two battle ships cause as it countinued they warped in a hard hitting t2 torp raven and tried to ransom me which i declined to pay..
So heres the question to CCP is using remote reps to gain aggression and avoid concord to attack otherwise helpless victams exceptable? or is this a exploit. petitions are in and yet to get a responce so figure this might at least answer my question faster.
would also like to know if anyone has had a experiance with this seeing as mission pilots are easy to gank since you know what there using 95% of the time. Might consider this as a new hobby till i get back to 0.0, as for the corp who pulled this plans are in motion for you to be delt with thanks for giving me a op to work till my departure from empire.
Pirates are fun ninja salvaging can be fun can theft is borderline but i just see this as a new low for pirates, accually let me re phrase that cause pirates live for the good fight. this is just down right cowardly tricks to gank high value ships with little risk. Will give credit for figuring a way to get a fleet involved with out getting concorded thou. definatly surprised me the way it went down.
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Khraunus
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.28 02:33:00 -
[2]
Originally by: takeaway1031 I was running missions with a raven and a repper domi when a transport ship warped in and took a can. I knew it was a bad idea to shoot the transport but I did it anyway, then he warped in logistics ships and I shot them too, and then they jammed me and brought in a torp raven and smashed my missionboat
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takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.28 02:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Khraunus
Originally by: takeaway1031 I was running missions with a raven and a repper domi when a transport ship warped in and took a can. I knew it was a bad idea to shoot the transport but I did it anyway, then he warped in logistics ships and I shot them too, and then they jammed me and brought in a torp raven and smashed my missionboat
correct i did engage the transport ship but here is where you are wrong first logistics pilot warped in started trying to save transport while at the same time warp jamming my domi which had aggression for reping the raven from the start then second logistics comes in cause i was still breaking the transport ship down slowly and it began reping and jammed raven this all happened before i even attempted a shoot on the logistics ships, hince why I ask is this a new way to get around concord and getting a fleet involved with the fight.
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Antarr Slagh
Trans Eve Organization
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Posted - 2008.09.28 03:09:00 -
[4]
You did something wrong.
Game mechanics doesn't allow this.
--------------------------------------------- Runner of the Fleet Lottos! |
Havohej
Minmatar Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.09.28 03:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: takeaway1031 this is just down right cowardly tricks to gank high value ships with little risk.
RISK: you're in a corp, taking from can/wreck flags person to your entire corp, your mates can warp in. After all, with a name like International House of PWNCakes your corporation is certainly dressing itself like a corp of people who want PvP.
RISK: they're in a corp, you might wardec and actively seek to violence their boats.
RISK: you might drop shitty loot.
RISK: THEY might screw up and lose their ships in a very embarrassing way.
RISK: if they do screw up and lose their ships, the embarrassment will be compounded when you post about it on teh forumz.
RISK: you might not be PvPers at all, you might be a bunch of carebears who whine on forums when their lack of understanding how criminal flagging and aggression works causes them to lose mission farming battleships.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.28 04:41:00 -
[6]
Here is what went wrong:
1. They knew what you had
2. They decided to bait
3. Not knowing what they had, and having no reinforcements, you took the bait
Clearly they wont start something unless they think they can win. You had no surpise to spring on them. If you really think they did something that should not have been possible, either you don't understand the agro rules, you made a mistake, or they exploited. Most of the players who post like this didn't understand the agro rules, if you really thought it was an exploit, a petition would be the better route. Is it your story that at no point did you ever take any action against the rep ships? ç¦ |
takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.28 04:55:00 -
[7]
Ok maybe I'm missing something but let me make it clear. I only aggressed the can thief himself. the osprays warped in feed him shields and when they did that became aggressed and was able to jam my ships, this is all prior to me firing on them..
As for the corp that was involved in this yes they will be delt with. my question is simply this is this a exploit or is this a known workaround to fleet gank mission ship without concord involment, according to the killboard for the corp on battle clinic, this is all these guys do, and congrats to them for figuring it out.
I'm not a empire player so I may not be up to date on game mechanics god knows I've lost a few ships myself recently for not knowing about aggro counter reseting if you dock and other stupid stuff. I just wanna know if it's legit.
And yes im involved with a strong pvp corp we know how to pew and now have targets this is just me woundering about tricks of the trade of high sec gank. the corp involved just happens to have lots of shinny t2 mod'd ships that look preaty to our wallets. Besides everyone wants to gank a raven, but im not everyone i want a navy raven to add to my kills.
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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.28 05:06:00 -
[8]
Did you have any drones out? Is there any chance that you could have looted from something they had rights on?
There is no way they should have been able to get you agressed to the other ships unless you did something you shouldn't have (drones can cause that). I remember a few patches ago there was some funny buisness going on with agro transfers that got classified as an exploit, idk if it was fixed. ç¦ |
Xori Ruscuv
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.28 05:11:00 -
[9]
Honestly your best option is: don't shoot the ninjas.
Unless you are laying a trap, you're super tanked, have a point, and have buds ready to warp in to assist, you're taking your ass in your own hands when you shoot a ninja without backup and a PVP tanked ship.
It's one mission. You're not losing that much money, and the chances that they'll probe you down in a following mission is very small.
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WishBlade
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.09.28 16:08:00 -
[10]
It's that the hauler was agro to you, you shot the hauler. Your domi repped your Raven, and became agro to them, and they shot the Domi. Now the vicious circle comes together, as fleet agro takes over the play. Aweseomenessness |
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Sunshine Grifter
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.09.28 16:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: takeaway1031 Ok maybe I'm missing something but let me make it clear. I only aggressed the can thief himself. the osprays warped in feed him shields and when they did that became aggressed and was able to jam my ships, this is all prior to me firing on them..
As for the corp that was involved in this yes they will be delt with. my question is simply this is this a exploit or is this a known workaround to fleet gank mission ship without concord involment, according to the killboard for the corp on battle clinic, this is all these guys do, and congrats to them for figuring it out.
I'm not a empire player so I may not be up to date on game mechanics god knows I've lost a few ships myself recently for not knowing about aggro counter reseting if you dock and other stupid stuff. I just wanna know if it's legit.
And yes im involved with a strong pvp corp we know how to pew and now have targets this is just me woundering about tricks of the trade of high sec gank. the corp involved just happens to have lots of shinny t2 mod'd ships that look preaty to our wallets. Besides everyone wants to gank a raven, but im not everyone i want a navy raven to add to my kills.
you are not the 1st person to report this exploit today.....
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Olga Mokroff
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.28 17:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: WishBlade It's that the hauler was agro to you, you shot the hauler. Your domi repped your Raven, and became agro to them, and they shot the Domi. Now the vicious circle comes together, as fleet agro takes over the play.
this. and prolly the transport pilot switched ship with torp raven pilot (aggro is on the transport pilot and now he could engage you with the raven)
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cluster 1
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Posted - 2008.09.29 00:01:00 -
[13]
I was hit with the exact same trap last week.
I had finished a lvl4 in umokka and was clearing up with an alt when this mammoth warped on grid. Not the usual ninja salvage ship that have become a regular site in the system. He steals some loot but as i run all my toons in diffrent corps does not agress to the alt.
I start to MWD the salv boat away towing a fat can of loot with some good named stuff. He tails me but to slow to catch, problem is my hauler character is slower still. I warp my main back onto grid in a modest fit CNR and target the mammoth. I hesitated as it smelt like a trap and warped to station.
I dock and jump into my thorax (that i have had since 2003) as it is the only pvp fitted ship in system and go see what i could do.
I arrive on grid, web, scram and open up on the mammoth. chew through his shields and start eating up some armour. Next thing i know 2xbasilisk, 1xexequror and a CNR drop out of warp all from the same corp. both logistic ships rep up the mammoth pretty much instantly and aggroing themselves to me, then the mamoth webs and scrambles my thorax and it was a no win from that point on. The CNR lets off a volley of torps and left me sitting pretty in my pod.
The only plus is that in all the commotion my alt had got some distance from the gang so a friendly hauler could warp to him and rescue the loot.
Hope this goes out as a warning that this corp are not intrested in npc loot or salv, they want your tasty mission ships. They are all in the same corp so if you shoot one of them the rest can shoot at you
Name: UrsaeMajoris (laid the final blow) Security: 0.6 Corp: Combined Imperial Fleet Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Navy Issue Weapon: Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Damage Done: 5516
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.29 00:13:00 -
[14]
Serves you right for using an alt to rep you. Good to hear that easy mode comes with at least one risk.
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Lubomir Penev
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Posted - 2008.09.29 00:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: WishBlade It's that the hauler was agro to you, you shot the hauler. Your domi repped your Raven, and became agro to them, and they shot the Domi. Now the vicious circle comes together, as fleet agro takes over the play.
Domi repping the OP Raven should only gives the right to shoot the Domi to the hauler... If the hauler shoots the domi then the domi can shoot the hauler but I fail to see how the logistics and other third parties got the right to shoot. If no ship swapping happened that's it. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Lord Fargo
Amarr Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.29 01:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: takeaway1031 Ok first off this is not a carebear crying about getting beat, it is more of a question of is this allowed by CCP, and would appricate a devs responce here.
Today while running a mission with my 2 toons I got probed down by a cov opts, no big deal salvage isnt a hugh issuse for me. Now here I am in a .8 system doing this mission then a transport ship warps in, knowing full well where this was going i lock on to him with the raven pilot other toon was just a logistics domi nothing speacial, of course he steals a can i start firing on him to run him out of my mission so I can finis and grab the mission specific item needed to complete.
Now this is where it gets interesting, all of a sudden i got a logistics pilot in the room with me helping the transpot he instantly turns red but I keep working on the transport since he got there late and was hoping to get lucky, next thing i know a second logistics ship warps in and all three are now red, and the two logistics pilots have both my ships jammed never firing on the logistics ships i woundered how they where able to avoid concord, needless to say I'm out two battle ships cause as it countinued they warped in a hard hitting t2 torp raven and tried to ransom me which i declined to pay..
So heres the question to CCP is using remote reps to gain aggression and avoid concord to attack otherwise helpless victams exceptable? or is this a exploit. petitions are in and yet to get a responce so figure this might at least answer my question faster.
would also like to know if anyone has had a experiance with this seeing as mission pilots are easy to gank since you know what there using 95% of the time. Might consider this as a new hobby till i get back to 0.0, as for the corp who pulled this plans are in motion for you to be delt with thanks for giving me a op to work till my departure from empire.
Pirates are fun ninja salvaging can be fun can theft is borderline but i just see this as a new low for pirates, accually let me re phrase that cause pirates live for the good fight. this is just down right cowardly tricks to gank high value ships with little risk. Will give credit for figuring a way to get a fleet involved with out getting concorded thou. definatly surprised me the way it went down.
Fail
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Conrad Murphy
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Posted - 2008.09.29 01:23:00 -
[17]
AFAIK, as soon as you shoot at one of them, they AND THEIR CORP get the right to shoot at you. Your alt repping you, once they've got a flag on your main, is getting flagged to everyone your main is flagged to as well...
Flagging rules are complicated, and the ninja salvagers and canflippers studied them all in detail... Some days, 0.0 seems safer than highsec...
On a related note, lately I've seen a bunch of people post stuff in threads like this that's JUST PLAIN WRONG, AFAIK... Maybe the bad guys have finally figured out that it's not in THEIR BEST INTEREST to give out accurate information on the forums...
EVE, oh EVE, lovely game of paranoia...
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takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.29 02:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: cluster 1 I was hit with the exact same trap last week.
I had finished a lvl4 in umokka and was clearing up with an alt when this mammoth warped on grid. Not the usual ninja salvage ship that have become a regular site in the system. He steals some loot but as i run all my toons in diffrent corps does not agress to the alt.
I start to MWD the salv boat away towing a fat can of loot with some good named stuff. He tails me but to slow to catch, problem is my hauler character is slower still. I warp my main back onto grid in a modest fit CNR and target the mammoth. I hesitated as it smelt like a trap and warped to station.
I dock and jump into my thorax (that i have had since 2003) as it is the only pvp fitted ship in system and go see what i could do.
I arrive on grid, web, scram and open up on the mammoth. chew through his shields and start eating up some armour. Next thing i know 2xbasilisk, 1xexequror and a CNR drop out of warp all from the same corp. both logistic ships rep up the mammoth pretty much instantly and aggroing themselves to me, then the mamoth webs and scrambles my thorax and it was a no win from that point on. The CNR lets off a volley of torps and left me sitting pretty in my pod.
The only plus is that in all the commotion my alt had got some distance from the gang so a friendly hauler could warp to him and rescue the loot.
Hope this goes out as a warning that this corp are not intrested in npc loot or salv, they want your tasty mission ships. They are all in the same corp so if you shoot one of them the rest can shoot at you
Name: UrsaeMajoris (laid the final blow) Security: 0.6 Corp: Combined Imperial Fleet Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Navy Issue Weapon: Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Damage Done: 5516
yes this is the corp in question but im still waiting for a responce as to is this a exploit or is it a new trick thats allowed COME ON DEVS answer me!!! as for there shinny gank ships they use theyll be my dinner soon hope they use officer mods
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PsychoBones
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.09.29 02:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Antarr Slagh You did something wrong.
Game mechanics doesn't allow this.
R.E.C.O.N. - Helping a soon-to-be defunct alliance failurecascade near you. |
Keeves
Minmatar the evil ones Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.09.29 03:13:00 -
[20]
International house of failcakes.
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takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.29 04:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Keeves International house of failcakes.
Out of all the smack thats in this thread, that all i wanted was a answer. but a vangaurd member insulting my corp which was heavily involved in helping you guys gain FAT just a month or so back. lets ask who really failed cause to my recolection my corp sacrificed many ships to give your alliance FAT and my corp mates where some of the few that consitantly fielded caps on ops to give you FAT, yet you say we fail you sir fail and im sure alot of your alliance can vouch IPWN. So choose your words carfully before posting about a corp you dont clearly know. You wanna say something about me fine no problem but to open your mouth in regaurds to a corp that helped you get a 0.0 home your the one that appears to look like a a$$.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.29 04:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 29/09/2008 04:47:43
I was fighting in FAT long before you newbs ever were. It'll be back in BoB's hands again anyway, so arguing about it now is pointless. Just sayin
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takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.29 05:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 29/09/2008 04:56:41
I was fighting in FAT long before you newbs ever were. It'll be back in BoB's hands again anyway, so arguing about it now is pointless. But that's just one unrepentant BoB fanboi's opinion
I agree BoB had fat for some time, personaly I hope they take it back soon as I cant stand -A-, fyi you guys in BoB should make a thank you post in CAOD to them they really have made you guys look like good guys,LOL. I'm sure the NC have different opinions but its the NC seriously they need to have a non blue local cant nap everyone.
I just felt it was outta line for a vangaurd member to talk bad about a corp that helped alot in giving his alliance FAT. Which might I add you guys lost a week and a half later if you wanna talk about fails.
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Temujin Ambaghai
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Posted - 2008.09.29 05:54:00 -
[24]
I think you are missing something when it comes to agro rules in high sec. as far as i know, and i've used them myself before, the repping ships CANNOT engage unless you fire on them. you are ship a, alt is ship b, can flipper is ship c, ships repping flipper is ship d.
Ship C flips can gaining agro from Ship a
Ship a engages ship c, ship c can now fire on ship a.
ship b is repping ship a, this allows ship c to fire on ship b.
Ship d reps ship c, this allows ship a and b to fire on ship d (assuming that ship c fired on ship b)
BUT if ship a or b does not fire on ship d there is no way in hell ship d can "jam" or engage you in any way shape or form.
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cluster 1
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Posted - 2008.09.29 08:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Temujin Ambaghai I think you are missing something when it comes to agro rules in high sec. as far as i know, and i've used them myself before, the repping ships CANNOT engage unless you fire on them. you are ship a, alt is ship b, can flipper is ship c, ships repping flipper is ship d.
Ship C flips can gaining agro from Ship a
Ship a engages ship c, ship c can now fire on ship a.
ship b is repping ship a, this allows ship c to fire on ship b.
Ship d reps ship c, this allows ship a and b to fire on ship d (assuming that ship c fired on ship b)
BUT if ship a or b does not fire on ship d there is no way in hell ship d can "jam" or engage you in any way shape or form.
All of the agressing ships, are in the same corp. so isnt the missioner and his reping alt flagged to the whole corp. which includes the industral, logistics and the CNR.
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Keeves
Minmatar the evil ones Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.09.29 10:05:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Keeves on 29/09/2008 10:06:11
Originally by: takeaway1031
Originally by: Keeves International house of failcakes.
Out of all the smack thats in this thread, that all i wanted was a answer. but a vangaurd member insulting my corp which was heavily involved in helping you guys gain FAT just a month or so back. lets ask who really failed cause to my recolection my corp sacrificed many ships to give your alliance FAT and my corp mates where some of the few that consitantly fielded caps on ops to give you FAT, yet you say we fail you sir fail and im sure alot of your alliance can vouch IPWN. So choose your words carfully before posting about a corp you dont clearly know. You wanna say something about me fine no problem but to open your mouth in regaurds to a corp that helped you get a 0.0 home your the one that appears to look like a a$$.
CAOD is that way --> i think you forget which forum your in. my opinions isnt the opinions of my alliance, therefore i still think you fail.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.09.29 15:28:00 -
[27]
My 'ead 'urts from all that aggro rules. Can somebody explain to me, in layman's terms, wtf happened and what should have happened? |
Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.09.29 15:36:00 -
[28]
sux tbfh.
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takeaway1031
Caldari International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2008.09.29 16:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: P'uck My 'ead 'urts from all that aggro rules. Can somebody explain to me, in layman's terms, wtf happened and what should have happened?
I was there and still dont understand what happened if it makes you feel better, in all asspects of this game I've come to learn empire sucks, at least in 0.0 you know when your going to get ganked by a fleet its when the red's out number you lol.. cant wait to gtfo of empire again... exit door |
Temujin Ambaghai
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Posted - 2008.09.29 17:23:00 -
[30]
All of the agressing ships, are in the same corp. so isnt the missioner and his reping alt flagged to the whole corp. which includes the industral, logistics and the CNR.
it doesn't matter if they're in the same corp, if you steal from someone and they then engage you your corp does not gain agro, you are the only one that can return fire. if however, you put their stuff in one of your cans and they then take it, your corp may then engage all of them. but from the description given i don't see how it's possible for their corp to fire on you if you only engaged the ship that stole from you and not the logistics repping them. if they did and concord did not wtfpwnbbq them then it has to be an exploit and i'd be petitioning it |
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