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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Gilgamesh1980
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.09 08:25:00 -
[31]
Appreciate the follow up Jez,
in regards to the Phoenix kill, it wasn't really any form of accusation, but more just surprised, as I have never seen a Self destruct mail on the boards |
Frogzuk
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.10 06:51:00 -
[32]
As mercs, it is imperative that kills are accurate and i doubt very much that a pilot in REPO would be dumb enough to pull a stunt like this.
Mercs rely on the kill stats as a means to prove their worth, faking them does one of two things
1) screws the rep 2) kills off potential new customers
Froggy |
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
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Posted - 2008.10.10 18:06:00 -
[33]
Not to stifle this fine debate, but I believe this entire discussion is a violation of rule 10 of the articles governing this forum. |
Brother Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.10.15 12:46:00 -
[34]
R.E.P.O. needs a fair bit of spanking. Naughty boys they are
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CCP StevieSG
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:06:00 -
[35]
Moved to crime and punishment from Corp and Alliances summit- StevieSG
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Roastedpot
Blutkinder
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:59:00 -
[36]
bad repo!
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Frug
Veyr
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:26:00 -
[37]
Quote: After Emergency Conditions First War Declaration R.E.P.O. have Been Caught Posting Fake Killmails on Our Killboard. Just a Heads Up for Future Reference to Corporations these Guys are and do Post Fake Mails.
i Think you May want To pay Attention to What words You're capitalizing When you Write sentences Because it Reads like Some kind Of hidden Message will Be revealed If i Write out The capital Letters and Rearrange them.
Also, I may think REPO is run poorly with rather awful directorship, but nobody in REPO fakes killmails. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
Count MonteCarlo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:49:00 -
[38]
Holy ****ing Necro!
And it's a Mod that did it too!
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DJV's Lawyer
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:12:00 -
[39]
1- not having a pass on your killboard is not a crime . i don't lock my door at night , does this mean its ok for someone to come in and steal my tv? no
2- no posting loses . you get the killmail too if you killed him , post yours and s t f u . killboards are an out of game aspect and are in no way mandatory for eve players
3- who cares if you killed 200 of them and they only got a arbi kill out of you . only shows you fight wars with noobs
i am taking the OP side on this one REPO just looks like a bunch of kb w hores on this on if u ask
killboards are just an easy way for your targets to know exactly how you fit your ships and what kind of gangs you fly . if you ask me killboards other then a tool to show your virtual combat talents , its just a info database for wartargets. pretty much like shooting yourself in the foot
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: DJV's Lawyer 1- not having a pass on your killboard is not a crime . i don't lock my door at night , does this mean its ok for someone to come in and steal my tv? no [no, it just means someone could do that. Apparently, someone did]
2- no posting loses . you get the killmail too if you killed him , post yours and s t f u . killboards are an out of game aspect and are in no way mandatory for eve players [i'm not the one using this out of game aspect without protecting it with a password.]
3- who cares if you killed 200 of them and they only got a arbi kill out of you . only shows you fight wars with noobs [Now you're gonna say that Trophies are useless, aren't you?]
i am taking the OP side on this one REPO just looks like a bunch of kb w hores on this on if u ask [luckly, nobody did ask you directly. phew.]
killboards are just an easy way for your targets to know exactly how you fit your ships and what kind of gangs you fly . [funny fact: there are mercenaries in this game that get paid on reported kills] if you ask me killboards other then a tool to show your virtual combat talents , its just a info database for wartargets. pretty much like shooting yourself in the foot
THIS is my main. |
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:32:00 -
[41]
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Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:50:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Ga''len on 22/10/2009 16:50:44
Originally by: Tibalt Avalon After Emergency Conditions First War Declaration R.E.P.O. have Been Caught Posting Fake Killmails on Our Killboard. Just a Heads Up for Future Reference to Corporations these Guys are and do Post Fake Mails.
Ive Reported the On Our End to our Web Hosts but R.E.P.O's Childish Move should be Made Public, dont know if anyone else has had the same problem with them. Kinda Sad to be Honest.
Fake Kill Mail Example: http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=repofakeen7.jpg
I am not siding with the OP here, but I have to ask this question.
R.E.P.O, why were you checking to see what their killboard password was in the first place?
Guys, I don't know if you are aware, but "altering content on a website through unauthorized means" is a felony here in the good ole USA, regardless if the alteration was to correct an error.
REPO did not have the permission of the website owners to make these changes. By making those changes, posting the loss mails, they have in effect committed a real world crime.
Depending on where the person who pays for the killboard hosting is located, the person or persons in R.E.P.O. illegally accessed the website in question could be charged with "unlawful access to a website" or "internet stalking".
This is not a case of profane language in a chat channel, this is people taking their game play out of game and committing a crime in the real world.
Sorry R.E.P.O., but I had to say something here. It may not have been your intention, but you are harassing someone in real life on this one. It's a line that you should not cross.
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Ice Fist
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:58:00 -
[43]
Came in expecting to see serious allegations against REPO. (FYI, I join the +rep train). I am disappointed.
A corp that doesn't post lossmails is like the Oakland Raiders saying they haven't lost a game. You guys are horrible.
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ga'len
Guys, I don't know if you are aware, but "altering content on a website through unauthorized means" is a felony here in the good ole USA, regardless if the alteration was to correct an error.
REPO did not have the permission of the website owners to make these changes. By making those changes, posting the loss mails, they have in effect committed a real world crime.
Sorry R.E.P.O., but I had to say something here. It may not have been your intention, but you are harassing someone in real life on this one. It's a line that you should not cross.
I lol'd.
They didn't alter the website, they used a public function on a public website.
They did not alter the php/html/css page and website administrators are responsible for the content that is posted in a blog (a killboard is some kind of blog, after all). Yes, you are responsible of what is posted on your website. Incenting people to murder on a website is a crime and the administrator that lets stuff like that being posted is a criminal. If they VOLUNTARILY keep it accessible to everybody, they have to moderate it.
Now are you going to pretend that using Google is a crime because you changed the way the page is displayed? It's the same thing in both cases: someone used a function that is made public on purpose, and that did not affect the "website" (the website source code) itself.
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Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ga''len on 22/10/2009 17:34:00
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: Ga'len
Guys, I don't know if you are aware, but "altering content on a website through unauthorized means" is a felony here in the good ole USA, regardless if the alteration was to correct an error.
REPO did not have the permission of the website owners to make these changes. By making those changes, posting the loss mails, they have in effect committed a real world crime.
Sorry R.E.P.O., but I had to say something here. It may not have been your intention, but you are harassing someone in real life on this one. It's a line that you should not cross.
I lol'd.
They didn't alter the website, they used a public function on a public website.
They did not alter the php/html/css page and website administrators are responsible for the content that is posted in a blog (a killboard is some kind of blog, after all). Yes, you are responsible of what is posted on your website. Incenting people to murder on a website is a crime and the administrator that lets stuff like that being posted is a criminal. If they VOLUNTARILY keep it accessible to everybody, they have to moderate it.
Now are you going to pretend that using Google is a crime because you changed the way the page is displayed? It's the same thing in both cases: someone used a function that is made public on purpose, and that did not affect the "website" (the website source code) itself.
You are missing my point, perhaps this example will help.
You access the corporate website for CCP Games using someone's remote access credentials, crednetials that you are not supposed to have nor use. You change the title text of their website from CCP Games to CCCP Games. Is that illegal? Is it hacking? Is it a crime?
Yes, it is a crime. You have altered the content of the website without the owners permission.
It does not matter what R.E.P.O. changed on the website, they accessed a password restricted section of that website without the owners permission. The fact that the password was blank is irreverent, they were not given authorization.
It was not R.E.P.O.'s website and they did not have permission from the owner to access the site for the purposes of updating data. Technically they committed a real world crime.
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ga'len
TL;DR -> I suck at internet laws
There, fixed it.
THIS is my main. |
Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir
There, fixed it.
Mate, you should read The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act http://www.panix.com/~eck/computer-fraud-act.html
I deal with this stuff in my daily job. I am not an expert, but I know computer fraud when I see it. Changing the content of a webstie without permission of the owner is a crime, plain and simple.
I would hope that people understand that reality.
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ga'len Changing the content of a webstie without permission of the owner is a crime, plain and simple.
Here's my point: "What if the owner willingly (thus giving permission) let everybody post?"
And thats what he did. He is asked to provide a password and did not.
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Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:09:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: Ga'len Changing the content of a webstie without permission of the owner is a crime, plain and simple.
Here's my point: "What if the owner willingly (thus giving permission) let everybody post?"
And thats what he did. He is asked to provide a password and did not.
Let's use this example. You leave the door to your home unlocked and open. I go inside and spray paint all over your walls. Did I do anything illegal?
The logic of your argument says I did not do anything illegal since you left the door unlocked and open.
It's called vandalism. Having an unlocked, open door does not relieve me of the fact that I altered the content of your home. You have paint on your walls that you did not ask me to put there. Whether you like the alterations or not is also a moot point, it was done without your permission.
Not having a password set on a website does not give people the authorization to alter the content of the website without the owners specific permission.
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Vrikshaka
Yawn Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Count MonteCarlo Holy ****ing Necro!
And it's a Mod that did it too!
Dayum! Never seen anything like it.
Chill guys, this **** is totally last years news
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:17:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 22/10/2009 18:19:55 That is the purpose of moderators.
On websites where the owner chooses to allow everybody to post, he has to moderate it, and he actually did by deleting the mails he didnt like. Nothing's wrong there.
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Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:24:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 22/10/2009 18:19:55 That is the purpose of moderators.
On websites where the owner chooses to allow everybody to post, he has to moderate it, and he actually did by deleting the mails he didnt like. Nothing's wrong there.
But that was not the case here was it? The owner of this killboard left the password blank because he was stupid. Exploiting that stupidity does not make it legal. The real world has rules against that sort of thing.
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:40:00 -
[53]
It's nice to see that we agree on everything except that last bit.
When you read the readme to know how to "install" the killboard (it's basically just unzipping files and editing a config file), you are explicitly asked to provide a password.
So, in the end:
1- The owner knows how a killboard works. 2- Decides to let everybody post. 3- Decides to moderate his killboard (confirming 1 and 2)
Not that it really matters, as you said, but I think I just proved my point here: nothing illegal was done as demonstrated in the logic thought process we've been through.
---
eh... now let's try to get back on topic.
I respect REPO and know how valuable an accurate killboard is to any pvp corp. I also respect REPO because they're clearly the best RR BS pilots I know, I think the only thing we can reproach to REPO is the fact that they tend to completly overwhelm their foes and that is probably not a good way to have them fight to crush them even more.
I'm saying that as a guy that fought them a couple of months ago.
Keep on the killing, REPO.
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Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 19:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino It's nice to see that we agree on everything except that last bit.
When you read the readme to know how to "install" the killboard (it's basically just unzipping files and editing a config file), you are explicitly asked to provide a password.
So, in the end:
1- The owner knows how a killboard works. 2- Decides to let everybody post. 3- Decides to moderate his killboard (confirming 1 and 2)
Not that it really matters, as you said, but I think I just proved my point here: nothing illegal was done as demonstrated in the logic thought process we've been through.
---
eh... now let's try to get back on topic.
I respect REPO and know how valuable an accurate killboard is to any pvp corp. I also respect REPO because they're clearly the best RR BS pilots I know, I think the only thing we can reproach to REPO is the fact that they tend to completly overwhelm their foes and that is probably not a good way to have them fight to crush them even more.
I'm saying that as a guy that fought them a couple of months ago.
Keep on the killing, REPO.
Whether or not the owner of the killboard understands what he was doing following those instructions is clearly questionable. Leaving a password blank is stupid. Having administered killboards for a few people I can tell you that installing one does not mean that you understand how they work.
Someone looking to try to post killmails on a killboard that they don't own is a questionable activity and I don't think you would disagree on that point.
Was what was done illegal? Yes.
Think of it this way. A man walks into a police station and admits to killing someone. Did that man commit a crime? Well, if a body is found and the story of how the victim was killed fits the evidence, then yes.
We have that here. We have a claim of vandalism of a website without naming specific individuals, only a generalization of naming R.E.P.O. It was the individuals in R.E.P.O. who stepped forward and admitted to doing the deed.
Personally, I think it's lame when people don't post their pvp losses, but that does not justify exploiting lame security on your target's internet resources.
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.22 19:51:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ga'len We have a claim of vandalism of a website
That's what I'm trying to tell you: it isn't vandalism. It's just like a blog or battleclinic: you don't need to register and you can post stuff. If it's not appropriate, it gets deleted.
I totally agree with Casiella Truza that replied to you (I think it's your blog or corp website or whatever): here
What Casiella is saying is exactly what it is and why you are... well.. wrong.
Quote: putting a killboard online with no authentication whatsoever equates to providing a computer service to the public for the purpose of discussion.
and
Quote: If somebody changes the contents on my blog (or, to make the comparison more apt, adds posts), then they will by necessity have bypassed a number of security measures. To me, this is more like posting new threads on a public forum.
and
Quote: Am I hacking your blog by reading the posts and commenting here? No, because you have made it public and enabled a form to allow people to add content to it. Their KB is the same. If you don't want anyone to comment (or even see the post outside a small group), you can enable functions to close posts or restrict their viewing.
I don't even need to argue with you anymore, Casiella summarized everything I said, I will let him continue on that topic.
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Frug
Veyr
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Posted - 2009.10.22 20:29:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ga'len Guys, I don't know if you are aware, but "altering content on a website through unauthorized means" is a felony here in the good ole USA, regardless if the alteration was to correct an error.
Is it your intent to sound like an infantile douche who needs to get out of your basement more, or do you honestly think this being a "felony" is anything but a joke?
You must be trolling. Nobody's that stupid.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
Taram Caldar
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.22 20:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP StevieSG Moved to crime and punishment from Corp and Alliances summit- StevieSG
Necro much StevieSG? Next time move it without replying to it so that it doesn't get necrod ffs.
1yr old posts are the best posts amirite?
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
Kara Ertrinkur
Project Nemesis
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Posted - 2009.10.22 23:03:00 -
[58]
In regards to REPO, I would just like to state my personal affection for Quizza. I celebrate his entire collection. Quizza for CSM! ---
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Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.22 23:05:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kara Ertrinkur In regards to REPO, I would just like to state my personal affection for Quizza. I celebrate his entire collection. Quizza for CSM!
QFE
:P
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Boomershoot
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.22 23:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ga'len
Originally by: Demitria Fernir
There, fixed it.
Mate, you should read The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act http://www.panix.com/~eck/computer-fraud-act.html
I deal with this stuff in my daily job. I am not an expert, but I know computer fraud when I see it. Changing the content of a webstie without permission of the owner is a crime, plain and simple.
I would hope that people understand that reality.
so you deal with this stuff daily and you don't know the difference between a direct access to the site and a php form? ________________________________________ i'd gladly abuse [hr] if CCP implemented it ________________________________________
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