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Third party skill training macro contains a Trojan

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Wrathraker Point of No Return	Posted - 2008.09.29 17:20:00 - [1] This is in regards to the eve news story "Third party skill training macro contains a Trojan" http://myeve.eve-online.com/mb/news.asp?nid=2384 With this article it is time to push again for DUEL skill training. There is HUGE need for this to be put into the game. So much so that CCP is now putting their customers at risk because they will not put it into the game. The best proposals I have read so far from other threads are: 1) Duel training. 1 fast skill, 1 long time skill. 2) Qued list of skills There is no reason as to why we can not access to change our skills with the api information being available. We SHOULD be able to change skills from our cel phones, pda's or whatever as long as we have our account information. This has been asked again and again and is not being implemented. WAKE UP CCP! Quit giving us bs reasons as to why you don't want to do it and just do it! This shouldn't even NEED to be asked for, it should of been done already! You always telling us to set long skills for expected downtimes and this would also be a solution to that. CSM needs to step up even more on this one and make it get done NOW and not later.
Wrathraker Point of No Return	Posted - 2008.09.29 17:20:00 - [2] This is in regards to the eve news story "Third party skill training macro contains a Trojan" http://myeve.eve-online.com/mb/news.asp?nid=2384 With this article it is time to push again for DUEL skill training. There is HUGE need for this to be put into the game. So much so that CCP is now putting their customers at risk because they will not put it into the game. The best proposals I have read so far from other threads are: 1) Duel training. 1 fast skill, 1 long time skill. 2) Qued list of skills There is no reason as to why we can not access to change our skills with the api information being available. We SHOULD be able to change skills from our cel phones, pda's or whatever as long as we have our account information. This has been asked again and again and is not being implemented. WAKE UP CCP! Quit giving us bs reasons as to why you don't want to do it and just do it! This shouldn't even NEED to be asked for, it should of been done already! You always telling us to set long skills for expected downtimes and this would also be a solution to that. CSM needs to step up even more on this one and make it get done NOW and not later.
Dark Soldat Caldari Skyforger	Posted - 2008.09.29 18:07:00 - [3] Well, this would benefit about 10-20 % of people because i have a thought that most of the people would just put on the queue further and further not actualy waiting for the both of them running out... this would also benefit the capital ship pilots who`s skills may take several months... and you need to plan it just right so that you can go on suspend for lets say carrier V or something.. and thats how you can save your iskies :) anyway im all for the queue thing it be nice to have like 3 skills in queue just for gigglaz
Wrathraker Point of No Return	Posted - 2008.09.29 19:06:00 - [4] Most capital players I have spoke with, and I am one as well, would not go away from the game for that long. Since we have vested so much time into not only our primary characters but we also have secondary support characters for those accounts as well. So taking a suspension out of the game for that kind of time period is just not going to happen. I'll go even further on that. For most people that are operating carriers, dreads and such, even 20 days is way to long to be out of the game. The way eve politics changes on a weekly basis you can find, and often do, your assets way off in a region you can no longer gain access to. So in the long and the short, no, don't think what you suggested would happen. Now back on topic for what I posted, how many times have you been somewhere else when a skill finished training, you had a program like EveHQ or EveMon send you a email message letting you know that it finished but you could not log on for another 4 hours (or more) to change it? I think that number would be like 80 or 90% of the people playing Eve. This idea of a duel skill training system has been around a long time. There is no reason not to implement it. CCP's long time players are still going to be loyal, still going to be here to play the game. Doing things like that MAKES your player base that much more loyal to you. It keeps you connected to them. It shows them that you DO listen to what they say. That is why there is this news article right now. These @$$holes know that people want this. That is why they created it. That is why it is working so damn well. A simple news article is not going to stop them (or anyone else for that matter) of trying to take advantage of something that they players, their customers, clearly want AND NEED. All I am saying is that CSM needs to step this up in their priority list. It benefits everyone equally and it not hard to implement at all. It just needs to be done. As Nike would would say "just do it".
Mara Devortex	Posted - 2008.09.29 20:43:00 - [5] Wow something i can support without feeling like a (insert appropriate expletive here)!! (1) it doesnt upset game balance (2) its not breaking something to fix another (3) not a selfish attempt to bend game mechanics in your favor..i am so impressed..TWO thumbs up.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.09.29 20:50:00 - [6] Yes, we desperately need some variety of skill queue, but this has already been submitted by the CSM. I can't imagine anything more happening with it in this term of office. Take it up with the next Council, assuming nobody runs on the platform of doing so themselves.
Tempest Inferno Davy Jones Locker Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.29 21:32:00 - [7] Edited by: Tempest Inferno on 29/09/2008 21:34:54 This issue has already been raised and passed but I suppose a new thread to move it up a few notches on the developers plans would be worth trying.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.09.29 21:46:00 - [8] IT'S IN CAPS SO IT MUST BE IMPORTANT!!!
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.09.30 02:07:00 - [9] With regards to the issue of people using the skill queue to shut down their accounts for longer periods, the answer seems simple: all skill training pauses when an account goes inactive. Alternatively, training pauses after the account has been inactive for a week (therefore protecting people who accidentally let their account lapse). This prevents people from abusing the queue concept, while allowing it's functionality to benefit those who are actively playing. Yes, this is a 'nerf' to those who engage in the pinnacle of AFK gaming (cancelling their account while training a long skill), but frankly, I don't see this as a negative. /supported
Bunyip Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.09.30 08:50:00 - [10] Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree here. The reason they don't have this feature is that there would be no value in having an account continue to be paid if you could queue up skills to be trained. That, and their people logged-in would change, which is one of their objectives (to push the envelope of MMO design). If people download macro programs, they get what they deserve. If they get a trojan or virus on their computer, they chose to download the program and only admit their guilt when they complain to CCP. I don't even know why CCP posted that warning, as it doesn't affect them or their servers. With the dual-skill (I think you mean dual, not duel) system, people will simply set <insert high-rank level 5 skill trainings> to run, then let their account expire for 3 months. This will not benefit CCP, as CCP is a business whose purpose is to make money by providing an enjoyable recreational product. -Bunyip "May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table.

Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.30 09:09:00 - [11] I support this. They could even make it so that you can change your skill within your "My character" tab on the eve online website. Could creata a whole different situation for people at work. They can just log in and change the skill when the other one is finished. Finally a chance to get rid of those pesky short lvl 1/2 skills.
Wrathraker Point of No Return	Posted - 2008.10.01 20:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Bunyip Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree here. The reason they don't have this feature is that there would be no value in having an account continue to be paid if you could queue up skills to be trained. That, and their people logged-in would change, which is one of their objectives (to push the envelope of MMO design). If people download macro programs, they get what they deserve. If they get a trojan or virus on their computer, they chose to download the program and only admit their guilt when they complain to CCP. I don't even know why CCP posted that warning, as it doesn't affect them or their servers. With the dual-skill (I think you mean dual, not duel) system, people will simply set <insert high-rank level 5 skill trainings> to run, then let their account expire for 3 months. This will not benefit CCP, as CCP is a business whose purpose is to make money by providing an enjoyable recreational product. dual, yes, thank you As Becq Starforged said, it can be easily nerfed to take out any shananagins. Is equal and fair to all (as stated) Yes, it has been brought up before. With the current news article it was time to push the importance of this gain. There is no reason why NOT to do it.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.10.01 20:41:00 - [13] Dual, as said... Duel means grinding for Exp, and that's one thing I'm thankfully glad Eve does not have. Anyway... I agree, and so do many others. As stated in the many other threads, there needs to be an approach along two different paths. A) Backup Skill. Once your initial skill completes it automagically begins training the second skill you've defined as your backup skill (generally a nice long skill). B) 24 hour skill que. This would allow you to select existing skills (not skillbooks) totalling 24 hours, with the final skill allowed to surpass the end of the timer. This would be perfect for those short skills. C) Dual training - I personally do not go for this, as it slows down the progress of both skills and is no better than the current system.
Jethro Jechonias Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:10:00 - [14] While I am in favor of a skill training queue, I have a hard time following your logic: The existance of a EULA violating macro that contains a trojan is not a sound reason to ask for a change in game mechanics.
Another Forum'Alt	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:56:00 - [15] This is not part of my sig. ...Or is it?
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.10.01 22:07:00 - [16] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 01/10/2008 22:07:29 Originally by: Jethro Jechonias While I am in favor of a skill training queue, I have a hard time following your logic: The existance of a EULA violating macro that contains a trojan is not a sound reason to ask for a change in game mechanics. If people are desperate enough to work around your game mechanics via a mechanism likely to put a virus on their computer, perhaps that's a sign that your game mechanic is frustrating, and thus possibly change-worthy. Given that this isn't an issue of balance or anything of the sort, and the frustration is entirely needless, there isn't a very good reason for them not to change it (seriously, "it makes players log in"? WTF?). I'm not sure if that's the OP's logic here, but it's at least a plausible bridge from A to B. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Bunyip Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.10.02 01:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Mister Xerox B) 24 hour skill que. This would allow you to select existing skills (not skillbooks) totalling 24 hours, with the final skill allowed to surpass the end of the timer. This would be perfect for those short skills. This I can agree with, as it doesn't allow for accounts to auto-train while the user doesn't pay for the account. Either this, or the auto-training doesn't occur when the account is disabled. Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto If people are desperate enough to work around your game mechanics via a mechanism likely to put a virus on their computer, perhaps that's a sign that your game mechanic is frustrating, and thus possibly change-worthy. By that logic, all ore should automatically transfer to your hauler, and missions should run themselves without you having to press a button. Sorry, this doesn't make a shred of sense. -Bunyip "May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.10.02 01:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Bunyip Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto If people are desperate enough to work around your game mechanics via a mechanism likely to put a virus on their computer, perhaps that's a sign that your game mechanic is frustrating, and thus possibly change-worthy. By that logic, all ore should automatically transfer to your hauler, and missions should run themselves without you having to press a button. Sorry, this doesn't make a shred of sense. The logic is a bit sketchy, I'll agree, but it's not as bad as you suggest. I'd draw a distinction between playing the game(mining, missioning, etc.) and doing support activities(setting skills, looking up item prices, etc.) - the former are things the player has to do themselves, the latter should be automated as much as possible. This is what I was trying to get at with "the frustration is needless", but I didn't really make my point very well. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Trist Ian Free Galactic Enterprises Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.10.02 23:31:00 - [19] Its about time CCP implements this. Its been wayyy to long
Siebenthal	Posted - 2008.10.02 23:45:00 - [20] Quote: CCP is now putting their customers at risk I agree there needs to be a 1 skill queue but the OP is placing blame for individual choice on CCP. Those that downloaded that program did so at their own risk and are responsible for their action. I'm not a big fan of CCP's customer relations (about 3 on a scale of 10 imo) but blaming anyone else for the stupidity of those that tried that program is ridiculous.

Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.10.03 00:37:00 - [21] I believe dual training was already presented by CSM to CCP.
Eowarian D	Posted - 2008.10.09 10:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Mister Xerox A) Backup Skill. Once your initial skill completes it automagically begins training the second skill you've defined as your backup skill (generally a nice long skill). I really would like to see this implemented. Most of the players, I guess 90%, are unable to log in during day time. Like myself, I always have to do some real planning in my training queues to calculate a full 24 hours of training. And I have to do the short skills during the weekends. This would release me (and a lot of other players) from the intensive planning. Originally by: Mister Xerox B) 24 hour skill que. This would allow you to select existing skills (not skillbooks) totalling 24 hours, with the final skill allowed to surpass the end of the timer. This would be perfect for those short skills. I also can agree with this kind of feature, although not as efficient as the first one. Originally by: Mister Xerox C) Dual training - I personally do not go for this, as it slows down the progress of both skills and is no better than the current system. If I could chose... Rather not the dual training. As said before, it slows down the training of all other skills. Unless CCP makes it possible to do trainings with more than 1 character (on the same account) at a time... I totally agree, Wrath. CCP should make work of this.
Kransthow Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.09 11:01:00 - [23] I'm here supporting Third part skill training macros with trojans
nikhan The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.09 11:28:00 - [24] Queued skill training would be great but dual is not neccessary.
Mdram Caldari Point of No Return	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:41:00 - [25] Queued training is my choice When in doubt, reload and fire another clip.
Vessper Indicium Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:45:00 - [26] I'm not a big fan of the dual training idea but a single queued skill would be a great addition. People would still need to log in after each skill completion to at least add another skill to the queue, except now they can do it at a more convenient time, rather than when the skill ends. I do think though that if a skill queue is implemented, the next skill should only commence training if the account is active. - - - EveHQ Character App \| Item Database
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:49:00 - [27]
Cory Trevor Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.10 10:10:00 - [28] Single skill queue is pretty much perfect, anything beyond that is just benefiting the lazy.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.10 14:35:00 - [29] Skill queues have already been discussed with CCP at the first meeting in Iceland. Someone getting their computer hacked because they were cheating does not constitute an emergency issue IMO. CCP has received feedback.
Belmarduk M.A.R.S. Enterprises Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.10.10 15:50:00 - [30] The skill-queue system should have been implemented yesterday - enough said

Katarina Arisdeed Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:22:00 - [31] There should definatly be some sort of mechanic put into place for lining up skills to train 1 after the other, now if people are worried about people cancelling the accounts and just letting them train then what could be done is to just make it so that when you de-activate your account you simply stop training skills period, thats how it works in every other game, if your not paying to play you cant gain experience, this is how it should be for EVE as well regardless of if there are skill ques or not


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