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Best plan for fixing American economy

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Marie Duvolle United Sentients	Posted - 2008.10.01 06:05:00 - [31] So you keep paying for money you didn't own, every month, till all eternity. Sounds like a solid plan... How can people keep justifying the use of creditcards to themselves? Does it not occur that nothing you get is free and if someone offers you something he's probably trying to rob you blind? Using a CC is like selling your soul to the devil; you get a short term cash increase and you'll pay for that the rest of your existance. Don't stir the hornet's nest
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.10.01 06:17:00 - [32] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 01/10/2008 06:23:38 Originally by: Akita T What you REALLY want out of the perfect country is true democracy (i.e. every single person has a say in each legislative decision) with a socialist economy (government-controlled, but the government would be all the people) and a completely capitalist social security system (each man on its own, no handouts, you reap what you sow, no more, no less). hahah Are you using your ESP / empathic abilities again Akita?
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 06:31:00 - [33] Originally by: Marie Duvolle So you keep paying for money you didn't own, every month, till all eternity. Sounds like a solid plan... How can people keep justifying the use of creditcards to themselves? Does it not occur that nothing you get is free and if someone offers you something he's probably trying to rob you blind? Using a CC is like selling your soul to the devil; you get a short term cash increase and you'll pay for that the rest of your existance. Because some people seem to actually believe that the credit card creates"free money"and the hell with debts because he/she really need to show his neighbor a thing or two about lawnchairs NOW not later. Dont get me wrong, if you pay off the interest and debt within a couple of payments its fine, because that adds to your credit rating(a rating that banks look at when giving you loans/when you buy estate)but if your just paying interest you are setting sail for fail.
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.10.01 06:42:00 - [34] I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole issue. On one hand, I know a lot of (more or less normal) people who are suffering right now because of the current crisis and one guy who would be able to refinance his sub-prime, interest-only, upside-down mortgage if and when the bailout passes. On the other hand, I pulled all my money out of the markets and paid all my own debt 18 months ago when all these sub-prime mortgages started going into default, and the worse things get, the more I stand to personally profit when the markets do eventually turn around, so long as inflation doesn't go crazy and start significantly eroding my savings. ---
Prof Patpending Bodgit and Scarper Industrial	Posted - 2008.10.01 07:28:00 - [35] I say we take off and nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Marie Duvolle Dunno how it is over there but here in Holland you don't get interest on a Visa account, you actually have to PAY for the Visa card in the first place and and the interest on debt is amazing. I don't have a creditcard, I get by just fine using my normal plastic. Come on over here to the states...good luck buying ANYTHING more expensive than a computer without good credit. Want to rent or buy an apartment or house? Have the entire amount in cash? TOO BAD they check your credit score, see you have no credit, and refuse your application. Quite simply over here you're forced to back every substantial purchase with plastic. Doubly so if they put you on a payment plan. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Marie Duvolle Dunno how it is over there but here in Holland you don't get interest on a Visa account, you actually have to PAY for the Visa card in the first place and and the interest on debt is amazing. I don't have a creditcard, I get by just fine using my normal plastic. Come on over here to the states...good luck buying ANYTHING more expensive than a computer without good credit. Want to rent or buy an apartment or house? Have the entire amount in cash? TOO BAD they check your credit score, see you have no credit, and refuse your application. Quite simply over here you're forced to back every substantial purchase with plastic. Doubly so if they put you on a payment plan. Thats why im upping my credit score but will pay for that type of stuff with cash, you could easily get an apartment with paper if your credit score is decent.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:09:00 - [38] Originally by: goodby4u Thats why im upping my credit score but will pay for that type of stuff with cash, you could easily get an apartment with paper if your credit score is decent. Yup, that's indeed the way to do it, but it's a slippery slope. As Marie is trying to state it's much easier to never have a credit card to tempt you in the first place. The entire buisiness plan over here is to force you to have a card that you're "supposed" to use a bit and pay off every month to build good credit, but as soon as you miss a month, or put a bit on the card to pay off "month after next" you're screwed and the credit company's got you by the balls paying off interest indefinatly and never catching up. And you have to use your credit to build it, backing cash purchases with credit doesn't build your credit. Having credit doesn't build your credit. Your credit is built by using your credit, then paying it off with cash. So it's almost the same thing in theory as backing cash with credit, but when you're backing credit with cash it's easy to forget a payment and get screwed. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:12:00 - [39] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Marie Duvolle Dunno how it is over there but here in Holland you don't get interest on a Visa account, you actually have to PAY for the Visa card in the first place and and the interest on debt is amazing. I don't have a creditcard, I get by just fine using my normal plastic. Come on over here to the states...good luck buying ANYTHING more expensive than a computer without good credit. Want to rent or buy an apartment or house? Have the entire amount in cash? TOO BAD they check your credit score, see you have no credit, and refuse your application. Quite simply over here you're forced to back every substantial purchase with plastic. Doubly so if they put you on a payment plan. Thats why im upping my credit score but will pay for that type of stuff with cash, you could easily get an apartment with paper if your credit score is decent. Getting apartments is easy. When they check your credit history what they are looking for are bad/late payments in the rent area, the rest they can give a flying **** about.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Getting apartments is easy. When they check your credit history what they are looking for are bad/late payments in the rent area, the rest they can give a flying **** about. Bull. I needed a cosigner for my 3nd apartment despite having perfect record at my second apartment and having paid my 1st apartment in full at the start of each semester. (2 semesters total) And let me tell you, it sucks when you're 22 and having to talk your parents into cosigning for a damn apartment. I got my 1st real credit card (as opposed to the debit/Visa check card I've had since 16ish) and line of credit this year, the only other credit I had was student loans still being paid by the gov't as I'm still in school. Thus I had practically no credit and thus the need for a cosigner. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview

goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:23:00 - [41] Edited by: goodby4u on 01/10/2008 15:24:16 Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Getting apartments is easy. When they check your credit history what they are looking for are bad/late payments in the rent area, the rest they can give a flying **** about. Bull. I needed a cosigner for my 3nd apartment despite having perfect record at my second apartment and having paid my 1st apartment in full at the start of each semester. (2 semesters total) And let me tell you, it sucks when you're 22 and having to talk your parents into cosigning for a damn apartment. I got my 1st real credit card (as opposed to the debit/Visa check card I've had since 16ish) and line of credit this year, the only other credit I had was student loans still being paid by the gov't as I'm still in school. Thus I had practically no credit and thus the need for a cosigner. Perfect credit? You realise that if youve never used a credit card before/gotten a loan before etc(alot more then the student loans)you have 0 credit right? Credit is something you have to accumulate, it doesnt start at 800.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:25:00 - [42] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Socialism sucks. Fixed. Raw unchecked capitalism did you a lot of good. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:32:00 - [43] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Getting apartments is easy. When they check your credit history what they are looking for are bad/late payments in the rent area, the rest they can give a flying ** about. Bull. I needed a cosigner for my 3nd apartment despite having perfect record at my second apartment and having paid my 1st apartment in full at the start of each semester. (2 semesters total) And let me tell you, it sucks when you're 22 and having to talk your parents into cosigning for a damn apartment. I got my 1st real credit card (as opposed to the debit/Visa check card I've had since 16ish) and line of credit this year, the only other credit I had was student loans still being paid by the gov't as I'm still in school. Thus I had practically no credit and thus the need for a cosigner. You suck then. I got my first apartment (3 bedroom house actually) when I was 20, with no credit card. We paid first and last month rent and security deposit (roughly $1800). No credit card or anything, guy didn't even do a credit check. My second place was rented to me because I knew the caretaker. My third place again was first and last months rent and I had to file bankruptcy halfway through my year because wal-mart likes to ** it's people. At that point I stayed with some friends until I could get back on my feet. My 4th place I walked right into with first months and security deposit and a bankruptcy over my head. Then I roomed up with another friend who had all kinds of debt, again first and last months rent and security. Don't know what your issue is.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Socialism sucks. Fixed. Raw unchecked capitalism did you a lot of good. Businesses dieing off is a natural thing, a company was stupid so they die.... Another company will rise to replace it in good time.... Oh and btw the DOW was up 480 points yesterday so that cuts into the 700 points it was down. Would you rather the government tell you how to think, where you go, what you do, where you crap, to breath or not to breath? Like akita said if our government was a democracy a socialist economy would work, but its a republic and being a republic means that the economy would be controlled by some of the most greedy, power hungry people on this planet and do you think they will stop for the little guy?
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:43:00 - [45] sigh I apologize for this thread. The idea for the OP originated in a letter I wrote to My Senator (Obama) about two weeks ago. I assure you, it was written much better, with accurate maths and stuff. I sent it to a friend for a chuckle and it went viral from there. Here's the Original Letter Quote: Dear Senators Durbin and Obama, While I disagree with the purchase of a private company with my money, I would respectfully request that you transfer my shares of AIG, which I calculate would come to 131 shares, to be transferred to my Fidelity Roth IRA account. I will forward my account information after confirmation from the Senate. For calculation's sake: $87,000,000,000 divided by an estimated 300,000,000 citizens equates to about $290 per man, woman and child. At the time of this request, the ask price is $2.21, and I will ignore the fifth of a share that is otherwise owed. Much Appreciated, Fellow Citizen and Taxpayer, Nicolas Green I also got a response, but it was his stump speech me my name inserted. Durbin, on the other hand, has failed to get back to me _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Black Recluse Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.01 16:41:00 - [46] So I'm no economics expert, but what I gather is if everyone is rich things cost more, if everyone is poor things cost less. So we're screwed either way?
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 17:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Black Recluse So I'm no economics expert, but what I gather is if everyone is rich things cost more, if everyone is poor things cost less. So we're screwed either way? Indeed.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.01 18:02:00 - [48] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Socialism sucks. Fixed. Raw unchecked capitalism did you a lot of good. Businesses dieing off is a natural thing, a company was stupid so they die.... Another company will rise to replace it in good time.... Oh and btw the DOW was up 480 points yesterday so that cuts into the 700 points it was down. Would you rather the government tell you how to think, where you go, what you do, where you crap, to breath or not to breath? Like akita said if our government was a democracy a socialist economy would work, but its a republic and being a republic means that the economy would be controlled by some of the most greedy, power hungry people on this planet and do you think they will stop for the little guy? It isn't?
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 18:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Socialism sucks. Fixed. Raw unchecked capitalism did you a lot of good. Businesses dieing off is a natural thing, a company was stupid so they die.... Another company will rise to replace it in good time.... Oh and btw the DOW was up 480 points yesterday so that cuts into the 700 points it was down. Would you rather the government tell you how to think, where you go, what you do, where you crap, to breath or not to breath? Like akita said if our government was a democracy a socialist economy would work, but its a republic and being a republic means that the economy would be controlled by some of the most greedy, power hungry people on this planet and do you think they will stop for the little guy? It isn't? Explain.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.10.01 18:38:00 - [50] Simply put, we need to allow businesses to succeed and we need to let them fail. That's really the only point you need to get across. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony

Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.01 19:01:00 - [51] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wendat Huron Socialism sucks. Fixed. Raw unchecked capitalism did you a lot of good. Businesses dieing off is a natural thing, a company was stupid so they die.... Another company will rise to replace it in good time.... Oh and btw the DOW was up 480 points yesterday so that cuts into the 700 points it was down. Would you rather the government tell you how to think, where you go, what you do, where you crap, to breath or not to breath? Like akita said if our government was a democracy a socialist economy would work, but its a republic and being a republic means that the economy would be controlled by some of the most greedy, power hungry people on this planet and do you think they will stop for the little guy? It isn't? Explain. Misread it, you were stating fact, I read it as you presenting a hypothesis. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.10.01 19:05:00 - [52] Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 01/10/2008 15:24:16 Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Getting apartments is easy. When they check your credit history what they are looking for are bad/late payments in the rent area, the rest they can give a flying **** about. Bull. I needed a cosigner for my 3nd apartment despite having perfect record at my second apartment and having paid my 1st apartment in full at the start of each semester. (2 semesters total) And let me tell you, it sucks when you're 22 and having to talk your parents into cosigning for a damn apartment. I got my 1st real credit card (as opposed to the debit/Visa check card I've had since 16ish) and line of credit this year, the only other credit I had was student loans still being paid by the gov't as I'm still in school. Thus I had practically no credit and thus the need for a cosigner. Perfect credit? You realise that if youve never used a credit card before/gotten a loan before etc(alot more then the student loans)you have 0 credit right? Credit is something you have to accumulate, it doesnt start at 800. This is true. I started my adult life the shirt on my back and a $5.25/hr job at McDonalds and I remember how hard it was to get anyone to deal with me since I didn't have a respectable job, had no savings, and had no credit. I eventually persuaded a local bank to give me a $1200 loan for a new computer, and that was how I was able to get started. The key is once you can persuade someone to give you credit, no matter how small the amount, take care of it. I've never, ever missed or been late on a payment I've owed anyone, one the one occasion my credit card debt did get out of hand (in the late 90s, I started a web based business, it did rather well, then the tech bubble burst and everything kind of imploded) I was able to eventually handle it without missing any payments or going into default, and now 12 years later I have a credit score in the 700s and even with all this crazy shit going on people still want to give me credit cards (I have one - it has a 7.9% fixed rate, I pay off my balance every month, and I have no intention of ever getting another card). Of course, the credit system only works if the people giving out the credit don't get stupid and (excessively) greedy - both of which have happened in abundance. I don't want to see the whole system grind to a halt, but what I don't like about the proposed bailout that got shot down earlier this week is that it does nothing to hold the people responsible accountable for what happened. I think the long-term consequences of insulating these people from the consequences of their actions would be worse than letting a few high flying, big banks fail - there's plenty of smaller banks that didn't get involved in this mess that would eventually step up and take their place. ---
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.01 20:01:00 - [53] tell the military they cant have $540b next year and use it for the economy. problem solved
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 20:05:00 - [54] Originally by: Thorliaron tell the military they cant have $540b next year and use it for the economy. problem solved Thats lovely, im sure they can just throw rocks
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.01 20:06:00 - [55] Edited by: Thorliaron on 01/10/2008 20:06:36 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Thorliaron tell the military they cant have $540b next year and use it for the economy. problem solved Thats lovely, im sure they can just throw rocks im sure the army can outwit the ebil men in skirts for a year
Illwill Bill Minmatar Scandinavian Carebears AB	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:30:00 - [56] Nonono! The rest of the free world needs them!!1!one
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Thorliaron Edited by: Thorliaron on 01/10/2008 20:06:36 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Thorliaron tell the military they cant have $540b next year and use it for the economy. problem solved Thats lovely, im sure they can just throw rocks im sure the army can outwit the ebil men in skirts for a year Maybe you should try entering a warzone, lets see who you outwit.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Prof Patpending I say we take off and nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure. This _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:53:00 - [59] Edited by: Thorliaron on 01/10/2008 21:54:34 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Thorliaron Edited by: Thorliaron on 01/10/2008 20:06:36 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Thorliaron tell the military they cant have $540b next year and use it for the economy. problem solved Thats lovely, im sure they can just throw rocks im sure the army can outwit the ebil men in skirts for a year Maybe you should try entering a warzone, lets see who you outwit. im sure a could outwit a lot of people. 1 man has outwitted the biggest military machine on the planet. how hard could it be to outwit the taliban!?
Captain Hudson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.01 21:57:00 - [60] Edited by: Captain Hudson on 01/10/2008 21:57:10 Dont most american's have money invested in the stock market be it through your 401k etc?. So allowing it to go bust is shooting yourselves in the foot? Bin Laden Dancing



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