Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Laylah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.10.01 15:53:00 -
[1]
Having read the EVE64 Dev blog, BTW well done CCP.
Since the EVE Cluster is now 64 bit, how long will we need to wait for a 64 bit EVE Client?
|
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.10.01 16:13:00 -
[2]
This is currently not on our target list (not saying it will not happen, but it is currently not planned).
This would require the rebuild of the graphics engines and result in larger memory usage in 64bit mode.
If this changes we will announce it.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
Laylah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.10.01 16:30:00 -
[3]
Awww :( , thats a shame.
Although as a counterargument, you could say that people who run a 64 bit OS are more likely to have a lot of memory since a 32 bit OS can't use more than 4gb.
Oh well , I hope that we get the 64 bit client eventually.. :)
|
Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.01 16:39:00 -
[4]
I expect that until the client is trying to use +2GB of memory, there is little if anything to gain from moving to 64bit.
I doubt that killing support for 32bit platforms is justifiable at this point. So keeping everything 32bit avoids the extra hassle of maintaining and troubleshooting two different code branches.
So as far as the client goes, I don't see any real reason for them to add a 64bit client, but atleast one very good reason not to do so.
Granted, I have already switched my OS to 64bit: 8GB of memory allows for plenty of clients.
|
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 06:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Katana Seiko on 02/10/2008 07:03:51
Originally by: CCP Lingorm This would require the rebuild of the graphics engines and result in larger memory usage in 64bit mode.
Well, the memory usage is the smallest of our problems... Currently the 32bit client is closed every now and then by the DEP (it looks like "IndicateWarp" doesn't work very well, at least that's the last item in the Log Server when the DEP closed the client again). There are two solutions to that: Either you create a 64bit client (that's the easier choice) or you can find out what causes the DEP to intervene at that point.
Some of the Bug Hunters keep telling me to turn off DEP... However, under Vista there's no way to turn off the DEP as soon as you have a CPU that has hardware support for that.
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias So keeping everything 32bit avoids the extra hassle of maintaining and troubleshooting two different code branches.
No, not really. There's no need for two code branches if you use a good programming language (and CCP does use a pretty good one). As far as I can tell, the only differences will be that CCP will have to compile the code twice (once for 32bit and once for 64bit) and that there will be 6 patch files for each subversion instead of 4... You can even use the same patching program as before. It makes no difference to the patching program what operating system the file is made for... --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 08:03:00 -
[6]
dep throw admin mode cmd off
paste:
bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx AlwaysOff
on
paste: bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx AlwaysOn
|
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 09:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Katana Seiko Edited by: Katana Seiko on 02/10/2008 07:03:51 Well, the memory usage is the smallest of our problems... Currently the 32bit client is closed every now and then by the DEP (it looks like "IndicateWarp" doesn't work very well, at least that's the last item in the Log Server when the DEP closed the client again). There are two solutions to that: Either you create a 64bit client (that's the easier choice) or you can find out what causes the DEP to intervene at that point.
Some of the Bug Hunters keep telling me to turn off DEP... However, under Vista there's no way to turn off the DEP as soon as you have a CPU that has hardware support for that.
I actually investigated this issue and have not been able to duplicate it.
I have Vista 64bit at home and run multiple clients on it all the time and have never had an issue with DEP. My XP Machines as work have DEP enabled and I have never had an issue here either. All teh Vista machines at CCP (32 and 64bit) have DEP enabled and we have not seen this happen.
So until we can get better replication steps on this issues we can do no more.
Sorry if this is not the answer you were hoping for but I can't offer anything else at this point. Unfortunately Windows does not seem to do a process/debug dump of the program when DEP kicks in to shutdown a program so we do not know what is causing this.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
Zana McLizzy
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 11:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Originally by: Katana Seiko Edited by: Katana Seiko on 02/10/2008 07:03:51 Well, the memory usage is the smallest of our problems... Currently the 32bit client is closed every now and then by the DEP (it looks like "IndicateWarp" doesn't work very well, at least that's the last item in the Log Server when the DEP closed the client again). There are two solutions to that: Either you create a 64bit client (that's the easier choice) or you can find out what causes the DEP to intervene at that point.
Some of the Bug Hunters keep telling me to turn off DEP... However, under Vista there's no way to turn off the DEP as soon as you have a CPU that has hardware support for that.
I actually investigated this issue and have not been able to duplicate it.
I have Vista 64bit at home and run multiple clients on it all the time and have never had an issue with DEP. My XP Machines as work have DEP enabled and I have never had an issue here either. All teh Vista machines at CCP (32 and 64bit) have DEP enabled and we have not seen this happen.
So until we can get better replication steps on this issues we can do no more.
Sorry if this is not the answer you were hoping for but I can't offer anything else at this point. Unfortunately Windows does not seem to do a process/debug dump of the program when DEP kicks in to shutdown a program so we do not know what is causing this.
Of course you haven't had any problems.. Isn't that how you guys deny there to be any problem? Just wave away every bug report with the message that we don't supply enough info? Easy huh? Don't hide your ignorance behind incompetence because we already know CCP devs are that.
|
Jac Straw
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 12:13:00 -
[9]
Don't blame the game for DEP faults. If it was there would be lots off complaints.
Its probably a driver (most likly), antivirus or some other software.
Data_Execution_Prevention
|
Jac Straw
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 12:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Katana Seiko As far as I can tell, the only differences will be that CCP will have to compile the code twice (once for 32bit and once for 64bit) and that there will be 6 patch files for each subversion instead of 4... You can even use the same patching program as before. It makes no difference to the patching program what operating system the file is made for...
And this is where you are wrong, its not a matter of recompiling. Memory allocation is completely different, pointers are different unless the code is written to support 64bit, if it hasn't then there is potential for alot of re-write. I know, I've been there done it and got the T-Shirt
|
|
midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 12:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Katana Seiko Edited by: Katana Seiko on 02/10/2008 07:03:51
Originally by: CCP Lingorm This would require the rebuild of the graphics engines and result in larger memory usage in 64bit mode.
Well, the memory usage is the smallest of our problems... Currently the 32bit client is closed every now and then by the DEP (it looks like "IndicateWarp" doesn't work very well, at least that's the last item in the Log Server when the DEP closed the client again). There are two solutions to that: Either you create a 64bit client (that's the easier choice) or you can find out what causes the DEP to intervene at that point.
Some of the Bug Hunters keep telling me to turn off DEP... However, under Vista there's no way to turn off the DEP as soon as you have a CPU that has hardware support for that.
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias So keeping everything 32bit avoids the extra hassle of maintaining and troubleshooting two different code branches.
No, not really. There's no need for two code branches if you use a good programming language (and CCP does use a pretty good one). As far as I can tell, the only differences will be that CCP will have to compile the code twice (once for 32bit and once for 64bit) and that there will be 6 patch files for each subversion instead of 4... You can even use the same patching program as before. It makes no difference to the patching program what operating system the file is made for...
Xfire was causeing this for me a few week, i narrowed it down to IE8 Beta 1 and Xfires adverts, ran a hack and removed xfires adds = no more crash, although beta 2 does seem to be ok -----------------------------------------------
|
Lukas Rox
Torchwood Archive
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 13:13:00 -
[12]
I run Vista 64 as well and didn't have any crashes caused by DEP so far (been playing for about 4 months on it). I did have some DEP trouble with other program though, but I found out it was the executable itself that was corrupt. --- Visit in game for nice items links http://eve.interkam.pl/eveships
|
Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 13:42:00 -
[13]
Umm... Why would you want a 64bit client? In this case it would likely consume more memory and run slower than the 32bit client. 64bit does not mean better, just bigger.
|
Jac Straw
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 14:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder Umm... Why would you want a 64bit client? In this case it would likely consume more memory and run slower than the 32bit client. 64bit does not mean better, just bigger.
Yes a 64bit program does comsume slightly more memory than a standard 32bit program. But 32Bit programs can only address up to 4Gb of RAM (in theory). 64Bit programs can address far more.
64-Bit
|
Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 14:57:00 -
[15]
True... but the client is not memory limited.
|
Jac Straw
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 15:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder True... but the client is not memory limited.
Very true
|
|
CCP Atropos
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 15:48:00 -
[17]
There's a lot more middleware in the client, compared to the server. For an idea, next time you open EVE, hit the escape key to goto the System Menu, switch to the 'About EVE' tab and scroll to the bottom.
That gives a small summary of the 3rd party software in use. Then there's dependencies for Trinity, the sound engine, all the different dll's in use, more testing platforms and contingencies, not to mention having to maintain branch and development compatibility not only for 32 and 64 bit, but also with the Mac and Linux clients.
|
|
Khlitouris RegusII
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 16:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Originally by: Katana Seiko Edited by: Katana Seiko on 02/10/2008 07:03:51 Well, the memory usage is the smallest of our problems... Currently the 32bit client is closed every now and then by the DEP (it looks like "IndicateWarp" doesn't work very well, at least that's the last item in the Log Server when the DEP closed the client again). There are two solutions to that: Either you create a 64bit client (that's the easier choice) or you can find out what causes the DEP to intervene at that point.
Some of the Bug Hunters keep telling me to turn off DEP... However, under Vista there's no way to turn off the DEP as soon as you have a CPU that has hardware support for that.
I actually investigated this issue and have not been able to duplicate it.
I have Vista 64bit at home and run multiple clients on it all the time and have never had an issue with DEP. My XP Machines as work have DEP enabled and I have never had an issue here either. All teh Vista machines at CCP (32 and 64bit) have DEP enabled and we have not seen this happen.
So until we can get better replication steps on this issues we can do no more.
Sorry if this is not the answer you were hoping for but I can't offer anything else at this point. Unfortunately Windows does not seem to do a process/debug dump of the program when DEP kicks in to shutdown a program so we do not know what is causing this.
sometimes when i close eve it hangs unresponsive then a box pops up saying it has killed the exefile.exe process using dep as it was trying to modify system files it only ever happens when closing eve down and doesnt interfere with gameplay.
|
BlackMail
Caldari Respect Required
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 17:26:00 -
[19]
On Vista best thing to do is never install to the program files folder always use a game/ccp/eve type folder so you dont have to be admin for it to update files as needed. --------------------------------------- Blackmail Respect Required All Around Good Guy
|
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 19:58:00 -
[20]
A friend of me said that there might be something with the graphics card I use... Maybe you can try that configuration over there :
EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640 MB) ASUS M2N-E 8 GB RAM (OCZ Vista Upgrade Kit) Vista x64 Ultimate --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
|
Generium
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 22:04:00 -
[21]
64 bit does not only offer increased memory addressing space, but x64 grants you access to double the amount of registers that the x86 would. Which in practice results in three times the amount of registers available to use.
While increased memory addressing, might not grant any bigger improvements, the extra registers will.
Besides the more software being available as 64 bit versions, the more people will use, 64 bit software.
|
Yaholo
Minmatar Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 22:43:00 -
[22]
A TRUE 64 bit app does offer a speed boost over a native 32 bit app, so this is a great reason beyond just the increased memory. However it would likely be easier to make the game better utilize multiple cores and make it where a quad core can be really leveraged for it's full power. This should require, I would presume, less of a re-write and actually give a nicer performance boost.
However at this point I am not sure there is much of a need. The game is not that intense right now and so we are fine with performance as it is. Most performance issues seen now are network not software related.
On a side note, I recall in the early days of Supreme Commander there was a discussion about a simple setting that would let the game see past the hard 2 gig limit that most 32 bit software uses. yes the software not the OS does in most cases have a hard 2 gig limit. Is there any reason we cannot set the high memory switch over to allow access to more ram if we have it available?
|
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
|
Posted - 2008.10.02 23:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl dep throw admin mode cmd on
paste: bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx AlwaysOn
From Vista 32bit Business I have learned Always on is NOT the default setting for DEP if you're having issues with DEP use the always off setting but when you want it back on don't use always On use Opt in or out.
To change DEP follow these instructions;
Start --> Run (Alternatively you can press win+r) Type "cmd" and hit enter or the ok button
To switch DEP to always off mode type: bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx AlwaysOff
To switch DEP to Opt In (default): bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx OptIn
To switch DEP to Opt Out (The other of the 2 options you can seletect in it's window): bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx OptOut
To switch DEP to Always on (Which is not the default value): bcdedit.exe /set {current} nx AlwaysOn
After this you must reboot for the changes to take affect. ----- Cause it can't be quoted enough.
Originally by: Damned Force Something like: Nanoships need a nerf but only the 10km/s+ ships. Nano HACs to slowboating Battleships wil be ****ed by this nerf.
|
rofflesausage
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 01:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jac Straw
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder But 32Bit programs can only address up to 4Gb of RAM (in theory)
Actually, by default under Windows it's capped at 2gig per process.
|
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 09:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Katana Seiko A friend of me said that there might be something with the graphics card I use... Maybe you can try that configuration over there :
EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640 MB) ASUS M2N-E 8 GB RAM (OCZ Vista Upgrade Kit) Vista x64 Ultimate
That is pretty much the kit I have at home (except I have a 8800GTX not GTS) and as I said I have had no DEP Issues.
Do you have xfire, or the teamspeak/ventrillo software installed? If Vent or TS do you use a program that puts the name of the person speaking onto the screen (this can cause DEP issues).
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
B0rn2KiLL
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 11:07:00 -
[26]
this is somewhat offtopic, but, why is it whenever i click 2-3 portraits, my harddisk flips and starts i\o`ing like crazy ?:\
it's barely a 40x40 bitmap.
i find that very peculiar. ---
Originally by: Oveur It's important to understand that EVE is a "PvP" focused game
|
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 11:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Katana Seiko Edited by: Katana Seiko on 02/10/2008 07:03:51
Originally by: CCP Lingorm This would require the rebuild of the graphics engines and result in larger memory usage in 64bit mode.
Well, the memory usage is the smallest of our problems... Currently the 32bit client is closed every now and then by the DEP (it looks like "IndicateWarp" doesn't work very well, at least that's the last item in the Log Server when the DEP closed the client again). There are two solutions to that: Either you create a 64bit client (that's the easier choice) or you can find out what causes the DEP to intervene at that point.
Some of the Bug Hunters keep telling me to turn off DEP... However, under Vista there's no way to turn off the DEP as soon as you have a CPU that has hardware support for that.
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias So keeping everything 32bit avoids the extra hassle of maintaining and troubleshooting two different code branches.
No, not really. There's no need for two code branches if you use a good programming language (and CCP does use a pretty good one). As far as I can tell, the only differences will be that CCP will have to compile the code twice (once for 32bit and once for 64bit) and that there will be 6 patch files for each subversion instead of 4... You can even use the same patching program as before. It makes no difference to the patching program what operating system the file is made for...
Removed forced AA in your GFX cards application settings
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Khaleb Flosk
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 11:45:00 -
[28]
Hi Guys,
Sorry for not posting in the Hardware Section but it just fits here perfekt. I was wondering about your EvE Ingame Settings for running multiple Clients. IŠve got a brand new Computer: - Intel E8500 @ 3,6Ghz on a G35 Chipset - 4GB DDR2 @ 888Mhz (testet stable) - ATI Radeon 4870 512MB @ catalyst 8.7 - Vista 64Bit Sp1
IŠm capable of running one Premium Client in maxed out 8xAA 1900x1200 without stressing my machine at all. But at the time i start a second client, my machine gets on his knees beging for stoping (means whole windows is stressed to 100%, stuttering). Funny thing about it is, that this allready starts when the second client shouldnŠt produce any graphics load at all (means login client) so it should be a memory related problem.
Whole Thing started two or three patches ago...and i tried pretty much everthing that came in my mind. - installing in a dedicated directory - running defrag - experimenting with my catalyst settings.
is there any "must do" Parameter / cache setting that allows you to run multiple clients smooth.
thank you.
cheers
|
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 11:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jac Straw
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder Umm... Why would you want a 64bit client? In this case it would likely consume more memory and run slower than the 32bit client. 64bit does not mean better, just bigger.
Yes a 64bit program does comsume slightly more memory than a standard 32bit program. But 32Bit programs can only address up to 4Gb of RAM (in theory). 64Bit programs can address far more.
64-Bit
32bit applications can address full 4GB memory on a 64bit OS. Since the kernel space is moved away from that area. Also you can use 3GB with /3GB switch on 32bit Windows.
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Red Wid0w
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 12:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Jac Straw
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder Umm... Why would you want a 64bit client? In this case it would likely consume more memory and run slower than the 32bit client. 64bit does not mean better, just bigger.
Yes a 64bit program does comsume slightly more memory than a standard 32bit program. But 32Bit programs can only address up to 4Gb of RAM (in theory). 64Bit programs can address far more.
64-Bit
32bit applications can address full 4GB memory on a 64bit OS. Since the kernel space is moved away from that area. Also you can use 3GB with /3GB switch on 32bit Windows.
Some inaccuracies, largest memory address possible in 32bit pointer = ~3.5GB. Thus impossible to address "full 4gb" on anything using 32bit pointers. This "/3GB" switch on windows is new to me, I never needed it (with visual studio 2005/2008). You can get around the hard cap by using stuff like AWE (address windowing extensions) api, but it's ugly.
Great tip for fixing wierd vista stuff: UAC -> disable
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |