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Dreyloc
Calamitous Intent Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:22:00 -
[1]
So I am debating the merits of a low sec versus high sec pos. The merits of low sec being I don't have to grind (and ask my corp members to) up faction standing.
My question is: what is the common view on low sec POSs? Are they at high risk of attack? My corp is small and plans on not really ****ing anyone off. Would it be safe in like a .2, obscure low sec system with low traffic or is it a recipe for failure? Does the logistics of hauling fuel though low sec make it to risky (side question: is a freighter required for fuel hauling or is a nice indy just fine ?) ...
Thanks in advance for any input you folks might have ... happy flying 07 "Batman has contingencies, why don't you?" - Prism X |
Karox Lominax
Caldari Rising Sun Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:30:00 -
[2]
A lowsec POS is typically at less risk than a hisec pos as the risk of guns wiping out anyone who comes near means many people dont go and visit the moons, usually if someone is wanting to place one, they tend to scan out at a safe distance to make sure there isnt a tower there first.
Chances are, if the POS is attacked, its much more likely to drop since much bigger ships (dreads basically) can attack it but on the other hand, if its out of the way, and isnt mining for a sought after resource, it should be fairly safe.
Moving the fuel can be a pain. Getting a jump freighter to make the jump from hisec to the system is the easiest way, but very expensive, but getting the jump freighter back to hisec gives a very nice target in the meantime as you cant jump directly back. A well set up blockade runner is usually the best to use, but depending what youre moving, could take a few trips.
Otherwise, if you have any aspirations to use the POS for anything other than a research platform, you should look to set it up in lowsec anyway, since many of the modules you would need can only be anchored in lower security.
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Dreyloc
Calamitous Intent Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:46:00 -
[3]
Thx for the info ... I think you convinced me :P .... just hope I can avoid becoming the attention of any roaming dread gangs (said jokingly).
As a follow up question. After reading the guides available I have gotten the impression that it is going to take between 50-75 mil ISK per month to keep a medium control tower (and common modules) running. Is this accurate and, about what quantity (m3) does that much fuel equate to (ballpark figure), like 50k, 100k, 1000k ? "Batman has contingencies, why don't you?" - Prism X |
Marius Maximus
Gallente Black Watch Dragoons Devastation.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:59:00 -
[4]
I am not in low sec, but in regards to your fuel m3 question,
I have a Faction large tower anchored for research purposes. It has a 110K M3 fuel bay and a 50K M3 stront bay.
My freighter held 4 weeks of fuel and the whole pos in under 200K M3. So fuel would be say 150K of that. I put everything in except a small amount of LO, Heavy water and Isotopes. This gave me about a month of everything minus the isotopes which was a week, but I have a station in system.
Also, a suggestion would be to add stront to your stront bay as if it is attacked, it will go into reinforced, giving you a small break to gather some forces and hope for the best.
Good luck.
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Dreyloc
Calamitous Intent Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 13:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marius Maximus
......
Good luck.
Thx, great info and much appreciated. "Batman has contingencies, why don't you?" - Prism X |
CyPhEr UmOs
Gallente Hatori Mining Services DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2008.10.02 13:15:00 -
[6]
If you are going to just use it for research, it would greatly benefit you to put it in high sec. There are many players that offer this as a service if you cannot accomplish this yourself. Also, you could join an alliance that has an empire POS shared out to the alliance for research.
Monthly fuel costs vary depending on what tower you use, what modules you online and where you are located. Some of the fuel can be acquired by mining and reprocessing ice but that is a job in itself and only results in 4 components of about 10.
Faction towers are much more expensive but will save you a great deal in fuel used in the long run. If you are setting up a tower for the long haul, buy a faction tower. If you are not then don't worry about it. I have a small Gallente tower set up used strictly to hide behind while selling jump clones with a cap ship. That is the only reason it exists.
All towers are designed to hold a maximum of 1 months supply of fuel, no more. You can can anchor and use a corporate hangar to store fuel on hand to make travel with fuel less often but at some point you will have to travel. You can anchor a POS in 0.3 and below without any regard to your standings. From 0.4 - 0.7 you must have standings accordingly.
Convo me in game if you need help. IFTCO |
Suncats Shadow
Caldari Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.02 17:11:00 -
[7]
Dreyloc;
You other issue is that you will need to put guns/ECM/warp scramers/etc on a low sec tower to protect it. Since when people come by and see the labs on it and then no station in system, that makes it a huge target. Since they are under the assumption that if you are using for research the BPO's will need to be in the labs to do that.
Needing to put all the protection on the tower will also take away from the CPU you need to run the labs with.
If you are in a small corp, I would suggest trying to get everyone to work on getting faction standing up for a high sec one. Otherwise you will need to create an alt in a new corp, work with them to get standing and then have them put the tower up for you.
Then you can trade the BPO's back and forth for research in the high sec POS. King of the puffy tail
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ArcDragon
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Posted - 2008.10.02 21:19:00 -
[8]
It just so happens I've been in the exact same position as you. We too are a small corp, 5 members, all family. Grinding for high sec rep. was NOT an option for us for various reasons. Our CEO happened to have the correct standing while the rest of us did not come close. So, for 8 days we disbanded our corp. There is a formula to predict how long it will take for a 1 man corp to raise the corp to the proper standing (or you can BUY a corp with corrected standing), ours was about 8 days. That sucked. It sucked. Did I mention it sucked?
So we then reinvited and immediatley set up a medium tower in .5 space. We put up 2 guns (which turns out we never needed) and set up a corp hanger, ship maintenance bay and eventually ramped up to 5 (count em!) 5 research labs. Out of the 2 or 3 months that I was putting up with managing it all I can tell you we researched the holy tar out of BPO's. The end result when your corp has nothing but well researched BPO's is that on average your corp makes an additional 10% profit from whatever it was doing before. It adds up.
Fueling even in high sec is a deadly PITA, 10 components (of which not all can come from players) is A LOT of traveling around. A tricked out Hulk can not carry enough fuel in one trip for more than a 10 days. A Freighter is very nice, but VERY slow. We used Hulks to bring to a freighter which delivered the fuel. Major pain my friend, it gets old.
Fuel costs for a medium going full bore with research was around 90m a month. Those factional towers talked about earlier, I looked into them and calculated a rate of return of at BEST 6 months, and at worst an entire year before you made your money back.
So, I eventually got tired of managing it all, and my father (CEO) got tired of footing the bill :) We closed it down after we got a lot of PBO's researched. *LESSON LEARNED: Leave at least a small offlined anchored POS tower when you are done. It costs nothing, and since it is in high sec it can not be attacked. You may want to fire up a POS in the future, but not have the standing to anchor a new one!
Jump forward after a month off:
I try my hand at low sec POS's. I planed and planed...I probed more than 200 moons! I was friendly to everyone too. I was attacked by pirates that came in 6 packs. I found a place to set up eventually though. It was a heavily armed large tower with moon mining going on. All went fine for awhile until about 2 dreadnaughts showed up and laid waste to my defenses and put the tower into reinforcment mode. They were kind enough to let me take it down. I talked at length to them:
1) They scan for new POS's all the time. 2) THEY WERE BORED. 3) They wanted a fight, but our corp has no capital ships nor the ability to fly them. 4) They are a small pirate type corp. 5) They proved (by more than just the attack) that no POS is indestructable and requires a fleet.
If you set up in low sec and do not have capital ships with the ability to form up a mixed and well balanced fleet then you will lose your POS and all the money you put into it.
If you can not defend a POS beyond even the maxium amount of weaponry a large tower can support then do not set up. You will need ships and friends period.
IMO: A SMALL high sec POS that runs a corp hanger, maintenance bay and 3 labs (Caldari small) is a great intro to running/owning a POS and can get your corp some very nice BPOs to compete on the market with. Otherwise you need to be in a corp with numbers suffiencent to fend off bored pirates with dreadnaughts.
I was dissapointed.
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DeathByAnts
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Posted - 2008.10.02 22:07:00 -
[9]
@ArcDragon
If you are transporting fuel in hulks you are doing something seriously wrong. You can easily pick up every single fuel type in Jita if you are willing to pay a bit more for the NPC items. If not, grab a couple months worth of the NPC fuel at a time. |
Revolution Rising
Venture Research and Resources A.X.I.S
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Posted - 2008.10.02 23:11:00 -
[10]
Putting up POS's is not something you undertake lightly.
If you're a small corp and doing the low-sec thing, keep it to a small POS with little/no defenses. (The more guns and facilities you put on it - the more fuel it uses).
Be smart about placement, understand what wars are going on and who's fighting where. Avoid trouble spots.
Look for dead-end systems - pirates don't like getting caught inside dead-ends. ;) Even if it's not you catching them - which you can arrange if you..
Gain intel channel access for the region/regions you border on - people will be running them - anti pirate groups are more than happy to engage pirates working close by. There might even be a small intel channel just for the people in your system.
"Running a POS" is not what the game is about - make sure you have logistics to refuel - haulers with max skill are best - you can refuel a small POS for at least a few weeks with 1 hauler trip. Make sure you're making enough money from having the POS there to justify having it at all! Moon mining - unless you're doing reactions - at my last look at it doesn't even pay for the fuel the moon mining array uses on its' own!
Don't put anything up that you can't afford to lose. POS infrastructure is really expensive or really cheap depending how you look at it.
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Dreyloc
Calamitous Intent Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 23:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ArcDragon
....
If you set up in low sec and do not have capital ships with the ability to form up a mixed and well balanced fleet then you will lose your POS and all the money you put into it.
If you can not defend a POS beyond even the maxium amount of weaponry a large tower can support then do not set up. You will need ships and friends period.
Sobering information to say the least, but thank you. "Batman has contingencies, why don't you?" - Prism X |
CyPhEr UmOs
Gallente Hatori Mining Services DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2008.10.03 13:15:00 -
[12]
That is his opinion. Don't let one player's comment change your decision about setting up a POS. If you want to experience a POS then holler at me in game. I have several corporations, 2 of which have POS's 0.7 space and the rest are in low sec. I can refuel the smalls and mediums with 1 Iteron Mark V trip. The large takes 2 trips but that's not bad. I have been doing this for almost three years and can tell you the ins and outs of POS's. There are great benefits that can be had from using them properly but at the same time, as you read in the previous post, no POS is indestructible.
I am usually on the server M-Th 00:00 to 04:00 and Fri 00:00 to 06:00. Sat and Sun I could be on any time. Look me up in game, I'll show you the light. IFTCO |
Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:14:00 -
[13]
A properly configured large tower with gunners can but up a real fight even against dreads. The issue is that you need to know what your doing, have the right modules and targeting strategy. You need to understand how seiging works and what the consequences are when a dread enters seige mode. In response to the above poster, most likely those dread pilots scouted your tower, and determined that while armed it was not configured in a way that threatens a seiged dread.
Frankly its not worth it to set up a lowsec research POS unless your in a big corp that is already living in that space. Just keeping its defenses online will cost more than the charters, and a lowsec POS is at alot more risk. ç¦ |
ArcDragon
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Posted - 2008.10.03 19:31:00 -
[14]
The forboding I gave in my previous post was indeed what happend to just one player. I say go for it, maybe it will turn out different for you, post sometime and let us know how it turns out. Good luck!
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Dreyloc
Calamitous Intent Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.04 00:11:00 -
[15]
After reading the responses here and doing a lot of research around the forums and guides I have decided the best course of action is to set up a high sec POS using a one man corp, then invite my corp mates once it is up and running.
I guess I came to the conclusion that no matter how much I read, the only way I am going to truly feel comfortable (as with so many other things in EVE) is to experience it first hand. Might as well do it in safety and then if I decided to push it further I'll move to low sec with all my new found confidence :P
"Batman has contingencies, why don't you?" - Prism X |
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