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Salpad
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:34:00 -
[1]
We missile users have the nifty Assault Missile Launcher module, which fits onto cruisers and battlecruisers, but which fires frigate-sized weapons (at a high RoF).
Why isn't there something similar for gun users?
I vaguely recall having read that there actually is a 2x150mm railgun, or something, but that its stats does not make it suited for anti-frigate use, as is the case with the Assault Missile Laucher.
Why not?
A 2x150mm railgun could be the perfect anti-frigate weapon to fit on cruisers, if its design was re-thought.
-- Salpad |
Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:33:00 -
[2]
Do you mean the Dual 150mm Railgun or 2 150's? The dual version is infact one of the 3 types of railgun per size. In this case, Dual 150mm railgun, 200mm railgun, 250mm railgun, the damage increases but tracking decreases.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick here mate, the assault launcher isn't really for cruiser sized ships, it's supposed to be the short-range, high dps weapon for high-end frigates and destroyers. On something like a Caracal, you'd be better off with Heavy Assault Launchers if you're looking for short range weapons, though you'd have a lot of trouble fitting all 5 of those.
For anti-frigate weapons on larger ships, drones are really the weapon of choice. They're like a pack of hounds, sick them on a ship (in this case a frigate), and shoot at something more your size while the drones proceed to tear the target ship to pieces.
The normal assault launcher is only really suited for frigate and destroyer hulls. For cruiser and battlecruiser hulls, the heavy assault launcher is the short range high dps version.
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Clansworth on 03/10/2008 11:45:25 There are very few to no frigs and destroyers that can effectively field assault launchers. Based on fittings, it really does only fit well on cruisers. The caracal even contains bonuses for it, so I'm not sure why you think it isn't a cruiser weapon system.
Originally by: Assault Missile Launcher I Launcher for cruisers intended to counter fast frigates, can only be fitted with regular light missiles: Bloodclaw, Flameburst, Piranha and Sabretooth and their F.O.F. counterparts; Exterminator, Firefly, Seeker and Serpent.
The supposed comparable system WOULD be the dual 150, but I'm afraid they fall seriously short of being a comparable anti-frig weapon, mostly because instead of basically being a doubled up version of the 150, they are just a gimped down version of the 200. Making it a underpowered anti-cruiser weapon, and an option when restricted by fitting only. If the 150 had improved signature resolution, closer in line with the 150mm, it would make a LOT more sense.
New Prospector Class |
Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:48:00 -
[4]
Seems to me that it is a frig/dessie weapon since last night I helped a corp mate fit 5 Heavy Assault Launchers onto a Caracal, was quite hard but in the end the fit seems decent. Slow though. PG for a Heavy Launcher: 100, PG for a Heavy Assault Launcher: 120. Cruiser *****ble.
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Na'Thuul
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mikael Mechka Seems to me that it is a frig/dessie weapon since last night I helped a corp mate fit 5 Heavy Assault Launchers onto a Caracal, was quite hard but in the end the fit seems decent. Slow though. PG for a Heavy Launcher: 100, PG for a Heavy Assault Launcher: 120. Cruiser *****ble.
You are ofc wrong. Assault Launchers are intended for Cruisers, as anti-frigate weaponry.
That HAM launcher fitted Caracal I'd eat for breakfast in a Rifter. If he had Assault Launchers on the other hand I'd be toast. ---
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:56:00 -
[6]
There are 3 cruiser missile systems, Assault Launchers, Heavy Launchers, and Heavy Assault. Just because the HAM's are for cruisers doesn't mean the assaults are not.
HAMs are a relatively new addition to the game, and were created because there wasn't a progression at the cruiser level between rockets and torpedoes.
The assault launchers are a bit of a holdover from a time when missile systems weren't as restrictive (you could load any missile into any launcher that had enough capacity to hold it), and in all of eve, they are the only cruiser based weapon that is specifically anti-frigate. This was the purpose of the OP's question. Why does it stand alone? Why isn't there something comparable for gun users?
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Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.10.03 12:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Na'Thuul
Originally by: Mikael Mechka Seems to me that it is a frig/dessie weapon since last night I helped a corp mate fit 5 Heavy Assault Launchers onto a Caracal, was quite hard but in the end the fit seems decent. Slow though. PG for a Heavy Launcher: 100, PG for a Heavy Assault Launcher: 120. Cruiser *****ble.
You are ofc wrong. Assault Launchers are intended for Cruisers, as anti-frigate weaponry.
That HAM launcher fitted Caracal I'd eat for breakfast in a Rifter. If he had Assault Launchers on the other hand I'd be toast.
Fair enough, though my corp mate wanted it to aid in fights against cruisers or larger, so Heavy Assault Launchers are fine for that. Even if the Assault Launcher is an anti-frig weapon, railgun users don't need an anti-frig weapon as they already have drones. Even Caldari ships have room for drones on a lot of their ships.
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.10.03 12:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Clansworth on 03/10/2008 12:14:34 That's kind of a ridiculous generalization. Some turret ships that come to mind that have no/little drone bay:
Maller: 0m¦ Stabber: 5m¦ Scythe: 5m¦ Omen: 15m¦ Moa: 15m¦
This is hardly even comparable, as the 3 light drones the best of these can field can't do close to the same dps to a frig as a rack of assault launchers, so it certainly is NOT a reasonable alternative.
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fuze
Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.03 12:23:00 -
[9]
What about 4x75 guns? Basicly is 4 high tracking 75mm guns glued together as a cruiser size mod. Ofc you'd have to nerf the tracking a bit on those. |
Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.10.03 12:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clansworth Edited by: Clansworth on 03/10/2008 12:14:34 That's kind of a ridiculous generalization. Some turret ships that come to mind that have no/little drone bay:
Maller: 0m¦ Stabber: 5m¦ Scythe: 5m¦ Omen: 15m¦ Moa: 15m¦
This is hardly even comparable, as the 3 light drones the best of these can field can't do close to the same dps to a frig as a rack of assault launchers, so it certainly is NOT a reasonable alternative.
I'm sorry, you didn't read the bit about RAILGUN users, i.e. hybrids. Lasers have great tracking so they can look after themselves better than a railboat against a small ship, and minmatar have the fastest ships, so they can keep their distance longer and snipe at frigs before they duck under their guns for longer, or burn away from the frig to reduce traversal and give their guns an easier time.
Only one of the ships you gave as an example was a railboat, the Moa, and at close range, it will not be able to hit a moving frigate. Hence, the drones are what you use. 3 drones on the Moa may not kill a frig as quick as 5, but they'll get it done.
We're also moving away from the OP.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.03 13:00:00 -
[11]
Turret users just don't need anti-frigate weapons for cruiser size ships. Assault missiles have very limited use anyway, only ship getting real bonuses on them is caracal/cerb I guess... Not to mention if you want to fit funny "I'm a bit of everything" ship you can fit some launchers on most of turret ships.
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Baldour Ngarr
Interwarp Plexus Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:01:00 -
[12]
To summarise:
Why isn't the Dual 150mm Railgun exactly the same as a 150mm Railgun in every respect except for doing twice as much damage? ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Wrangler Al
Caldari Shadow's Hunters Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:59:00 -
[13]
I agree, railguns really need some more options for cruiser.
Flying a moa for sisions I am very limited if i have to fight frigs and either need a good tank so my 3 drones have time to do damage, or hope they all come in 5k and fit a couple of smart bombs.
CCP please give railguns some love, they are a super weapon and the best in most scifi based games/films but they are so underpowered in EVE.
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.10.03 16:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Clansworth on 03/10/2008 16:05:21
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr To summarise:
Why isn't the Dual 150mm Railgun exactly the same as a 150mm Railgun in every respect except for doing twice as much damage?
Well, I'd maybe have them do twice the damage of a 150, with comparable range, but tracking should be lower, as it's a bigger turret to spin around.
Of course, to be totally accurate, it should use small ammo, do the same damage as the 150, but with twice the RoF.
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Salpad
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.03 20:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Clansworth
The assault launchers are a bit of a holdover from a time when missile systems weren't as restrictive (you could load any missile into any launcher that had enough capacity to hold it), and in all of eve, they are the only cruiser based weapon that is specifically anti-frigate. This was the purpose of the OP's question. Why does it stand alone? Why isn't there something comparable for gun users?
Yes, thanks, that's what I'm asking.
I'm primarily a missile user, but that doesn't mean I don't want the game to be friendly for those who are primarly gun-users (or primarly drone-users) too.
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