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CCP Abraxas
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Posted - 2008.10.06 13:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: CCP Abraxas on 06/10/2008 13:48:21
The Caldari have been through their share of ups and downs, and might have become a stilted empire for a while. But as evidenced in the following chronicle, written by CCP Gnauton, they are now are on the road to prosperity and fairness.
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Asharis Fyn
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:47:00 -
[2]
Sweet. But how long can the Caldari keep it going?
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valeronx
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.06 17:20:00 -
[3]
And isn't that a VERY interesting way to phrase the last line:
"Averting their eyes from the darkness all around them, the Caldari people now for the first time in years set their sights on a brighter future."
The question is, Will that bright future arrive before the Darkness swallows them all ?
.
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.06 17:26:00 -
[4]
Very interesting background. I think the Caldari have the most interesting background and government of all the Empires.
Also, the chronicle's image is awesome. It really displays the strange nationalism such a fractioned state. I guess red colour does carry that sort of revolutionary feel.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.06 18:34:00 -
[5]
An excellent chronicle more like this please.
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Markus Jome
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Posted - 2008.10.06 21:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Markus Jome on 06/10/2008 21:12:18
Nice story, especcialy since i like history. What i really like is the irony that the most capitalistic Empire in the Cluster seems to use red flags in their assemblys.
But there is something i have come to notice, what has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the last chronicles, but somehow concerns me. As the last about three chronicles were published i noticed that since the Story of now-empress Jamyl Sarum was published about two months ago, every chronicle was about the conflict between the Caldari and Gallente. What i miss is some further description of the conflict between the Minmatar and the Amarr. This conflict offers many stories worth to be told, for example how the newly freed Slaves adapt (The biggest amount of freed slaves in a single day since the great Rebellion, a big social and logistical problem), what was the fate of the Amarrians on the planets conquered by the Minmatar (the reverse didn't happen yet  ), who is the new heir of the Sarum family, where are the mysterious elders who managed to secretly forme three fleets equal in size to an empire fleet, and so on...
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StimOr
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Posted - 2008.10.06 21:39:00 -
[7]
I am beginning to wonder just how much of the Pre-World War II German story they are going to use in this tale...
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Kaillan Atreides
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Posted - 2008.10.06 22:07:00 -
[8]
I'm not sure if ironic is quite the word to use, the Caladari are in the midst of a very extreme ideology and political bent, it's sort of hard to not find comparisons between extreme political agendas and communism. It seems that pre-Heth there was a strong morality with the Caladari populace to find a communism type medium as far as agenda goes, but the amount of propaganda used to display such a morality made it an assumption more then a goal. Keeping this in mind there wasn't a need to force the political structure into that of such a stringent structure and an "ultra-capitalist" stance if you will was adopted. I think Heths reforms has merely changed the structure of the state without suggesting that the Caldari change their views, whether or not the populace can realize that the mindset is more important, or the most, then any policies or regulations in my opinion is the biggest question.
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Vikarion
Caldari
Hunters Imperiale
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Posted - 2008.10.06 22:59:00 -
[9]
Very good Chronicle. Nice to see one not depicting the Caldari as "the evil ones" for once, too.
--------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Dralverin
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Posted - 2008.10.06 23:30:00 -
[10]
sweet story as to the fact of caldari being communist well in a way yes in a even bigger way no..when you look at communism most ppl see everyone working and leaders working for the greater good? wrong!
Communism is the oposite of a meritocracy communism had more in common with european elitism in that the USSR, modern day bannana republics, and other socalist aand communist governments inevitably bring a portion of the population related to the government to extrordinary hights at the expense of the magority. Also this inevitably brings about stagnation in the places of power because the elite will use there power to promote there own ppl thuse sealing off the government and sence most if not all communist gov practice rigide gun control the ability of the ppl to gain back that power is low very low.(also one of the reasons russia has a horrible infantry for the most part sence infantry dont require large amounts of support in fuel and parts and are better at fighting in cities).
Also if you look at the caldari they dont use a one party system like communism. more like a limited democracy.very limited.(also for those who think communism is diff. than socalism marx never made any difference or to quote a frenchmen "socalism is simply communism without the gun")
Comunism and Socialism suffer same problem...most are greedy. There used to be alot of communes in america and they did ok...until the next generation inevitably left and the commune died.
Ok so its kind of a rant but thought the diff and simularities between caldari and communist where interesting..
and dude if you ever wondered how **** germany started look at the obama ppls its freaky they chant and damn near worship the man teach there children to sing about him....hell substitute environmentalism for ****sm and there you have it
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Dralverin
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Posted - 2008.10.06 23:34:00 -
[11]
Nice story, especcialy since i like history. What i really like is the irony that the most capitalistic Empire in the Cluster seems to use red flags in their assemblys.
not realy same reason its used in RL red is a key color in the human mind same reason women with red on make us have a...um emotional response
 one thing can anyone explain to me why anarchist and communist and anti war ppls are always at the same ralies???
anarchism and communism are the dirrect oposites of eachother
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raven415
Caldari
Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.07 00:45:00 -
[12]
very good story. would like to hear more about the Insorum incident. I think that would be a good product to sell to the mins....
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Kaillan Atreides
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Posted - 2008.10.07 01:00:00 -
[13]
I didn't call the Caldari communists, i alluded to the fact that they have communist ideals. In fact it seems to be more ingrained in them, the idea of the masses and therefore equality, then even the pre-EVE humanity (us). I never even suggested that there political system remotely resembles that of a communist party, although seeing as you discussed the idea of greed and abuse of power in communism (what one could call human error in an otherwise "perfect" theory of society) it would be good if everybody reflected upon, what the chronicle so aptly pointed out, the manipulation the mega corporations had on who succeeded them. Aiming towards there idea of what was right, by hiring and being succeded by people who shared there ideas, for the Caldari instead of what the mass thought.
You then are caught into an effect where if one mega corporations dominates the others, the rules and regulations stemming would benefit more the people who share the ideals and lifestyle of the mega corporations leader then the masses.
I think that's clearly an abuse of power and aberration of Caldari ideal's, very akin to corruption.
And yes you are right, we're both ranting. Unfortunately i tried to dupe people using allusions to the chronicle. But i think it does good to make comparisons and hybrids of current day ideas and ideology's to really understand how unique the Caldari state is.
A mix of ideals and morality, coupled with their political structure which has left long lasting feelings amongst the state of remaining steadfast and true to traditions.
The Chronicle really shows how hard of a time a man like Heth has, intelligent enough to understand what needs to be changed with enough pride to want to make those changes for the good of his people, but the peoples feelings towards him don't seem to budge despite the good he's done. Will he trade the love of his state for the bettering of his people?
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Dralverin
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Posted - 2008.10.07 01:43:00 -
[14]
oh ok and you have a point ive always found the caldari the most interesting among the races of eve even more than the amarr.
First its interesting to think of what a society would be like if the ideal of for the greater good was ingrained into its very fabric.
Caldari and Amarr are most interesting and in my veiw dangerous of the races. And if ive read it right there are to jovian races basicly dark jov an light jov both have interefeired heavily with all the races but especaly the caldari and amarr which if they ever figure it out will be unstoppable in there vewngence
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:00:00 -
[15]
Good stuff there Abraxas, did you write this one?
There are blatant connections between the Caldari story arc and that of National Socialist German (1933-1939). I am alright with it from a storytelling perspective and more than willing to play the patriot; the only problem I see with the ease of drawing the parallels is that those players not willing to see deeper are going to associate the entirety of it with NS German.
From this I would assume that the Caldari central government is increasing its overall power; so is KK basically throwing its weight around to ensure the government agents are put in place?
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XICD7
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:29:00 -
[16]
I would like to see more involment from jovians,the historic events that happened before and after empyrean age are the kind of things jovians will be interested in learn about it. but good chronicle for caldari.
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Avel Kereka
Amarr
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.07 04:59:00 -
[17]
Gnauton wrote this, I believe. As for the red flags, KK's colour is red so that might explain it.
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Logan Xerxes
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.07 05:54:00 -
[18]
Very nice story! More like this please.
This is my take on this chronicle's implications:
In the Caldari State, the corporations are the government. The nearest thing to it is the Chief Executive Panel. CEP does not however, seem to set policy. The individual corporations set policy and the CEP will arbitrate disputes.
So, within this framework weÆve got the hybrid Corporate-State. Now from our perspective, we have no parallel in real life to draw from. Because of this, most people (like in this thread) default into the old ideological pigeonholes of ôcapitalismö and ôcommunismö. Unfortunately, this doesnÆt work as the divide between ôstateö and ôbusinessö does not exist.
So in the Caldari State, we have several Corporate-States which make up a majority of the state apparatus, with the remainder being things like the CEP or the Caldari Navy, of which the funding for both is drawn from the C-Ss. So this group of C-Ss needs to do two things at once: 1. Turn a profit and 2. Take care of the people. These two are not mutually exclusive. Need money to run that school. That school is needed to make the workers to provide the money for the school. ItÆs entirely symbiotic.
But as some posters have already brought up: greed. Greed has the ability to screw up any social construct. But as the chronicle clearly spells out, the promotion of greed is not within the Caldari culture. I donÆt think NOH is putting out holo-reels where the Caldari Businessmen crow ôGreed is good!ö, thatÆd be something a Gallente would say. These are of course social attitudes, not absolute rules (so there are exceptions). So from the Caldari philosophy summed up by ôall for the good of manyö we can assume that the legal system of the Caldari State is setup to support this cultural tradition. Just take a look at your own countryÆs laws and compare with its past culture.
ItÆs also beginning to annoy me how people keep saying that Heth is like the leader of NS Germany. You need to break things down more. Within the population there is discontent and a feeling of things going the wrong way, based on how the state is currently being run and they are not able to change it. Heth has come to power and addressed those grievances, much to the joy of the population. The political pandering by inciting anti-Gallente sentiment is a political manoeuvre made effective by recent cultural animosity towards an outside group. ItÆs comparable to anti-British sentiment after the revolutionary war. ItÆs not like Heth has stood up and said that they need to deal with ôThe Achura Issueö. He has not scapegoated an internal group of the society he's leading.
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.07 06:16:00 -
[19]
 Originally by: Logan Xerxes
ItÆs not like Heth has stood up and said that they need to deal with ôThe Achura Issueö. He has not scapegoated an internal group of the society he's leading.
Apparently, based on the news from May timeframe Heth did scapegoat the ethnic Gallente living in the State. My corp lost an Intaki employee over it :(
Overall I generally agree with your sentiment.
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Kaillan Atreides
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Posted - 2008.10.07 07:29:00 -
[20]
I think i'll be the stickler here and take the post modernistic approach, in suggesting that the Caldari state is a completely unique form of state with no parallels we are forgetting about the directive and motivation of the person who created said state. The many hybrids and amalgamations that have already been theorized (and many more to come) will probably never match exactly the Caldari state without using a tautology, but one cannot outright deny their importance as a whole.
The idea of the Caldari man is easier to draw parallels on and should be focused more rigorously then any construct of the state, the ideals the Caldari share will probably have been voiced at some time in human history, and the aims of political structures similar to communism, along with communism itself, are pigeonholes in which these morals will almost if not perfectly fit.
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Ooops Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 11:41:00 -
[21]
Quote:
In the Caldari State, the corporations are the government. The nearest thing to it is the Chief Executive Panel. CEP does not however, seem to set policy. The individual corporations set policy and the CEP will arbitrate disputes.
So, within this framework weÆve got the hybrid Corporate-State. Now from our perspective, we have no parallel in real life to draw from. Because of this, most people (like in this thread) default into the old ideological pigeonholes of ôcapitalismö and ôcommunismö. Unfortunately, this doesnÆt work as the divide between ôstateö and ôbusinessö does not exist.
Federation system.
You have a "Central" government that overlooks the activity of the rather independent "States".
And even those big corps have several subsidiaries.
As for Capitalism and Communism, its just a name for economic structure.
The policital structure is simply Authoritarian. Either more or less (Conservative - Libertatrian)
You can have savage capitalism with huge propaganda tools, shaping bodies, consume habits, sexual activity and such, being a different kind of authotitarian from a Soviet leader that sends people to a Goulag.
Either way the "Administration" messes with your life.
I looked in good eyes the assention of Heth to power because of the lack of pragmatism that the adminstration was having. Aristocracy meant that "Nobles" were in charge, and By noble we could assume someone with all the needed qualifications for ruling. The problem was that qualification is not transmitted by blood, so things got scewed up not because of aristocracy, but because the "nobles" were out of the concept of nobility.
Meritocracy is just that. The right person, at the right place, beign rewarded for it.
That i applaud Heth for re-implementing.
My concern is: At what expense ?
I do not feel comfortable to see Detention facilities for Gallente people. I wouldnt want this to be done to me, i do not wish it to happen to them. Any wars were in the past, The Caldari and Gallente of today have different lives, and any hatred is not justified with the here and now (Well, except the take over of Caldari Prime, but that¦s another topic)
Heth seems stuborn. The masses need scapegoats unfortuantely, they didn¦t had the proper training we capsullers had. It¦s just revolting that fellow Gallente neighbours are beign mistreated.
Security measures is one thing, Arbitrariety is another.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.10.07 11:46:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Pottsey on 07/10/2008 11:48:30
Good story but it contradicts the news. The news say less than 30,000 something like 0.000001% of the population enrolled for further education and training. Only half of those got pay rises. They expected 50,000 by the end of year. Yet the story makes it sound like millions of people are better off.
ôAnd if ive read it right there are to jovian races basicly dark jov an light jov both have interefeired heavily with all the racesö
The Jove have at least 8 groups/bloodlines and 1 group caused the current war between the 4 empires.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.10.07 12:32:00 -
[23]
Millions are better off. That piece of news you refer to was regarding a smaller, more selective sister program of a far larger one mentioned in a later article.
Originally by: "First Article"
The report stated that approximately 30,000 Caldari citizens occupying various positions (i.e these guys could be executive level, themselves in charge of tens of thousands of people, which would explain the selectiveness of the programs) within dozens of private-sector corporations had already been accepted and enrolled (this bit here suggests it's selective, something that is later confirmed) for further education and training, with a predicted total intake of over 50,000 by the end of the year.
Originally by: "Later Article"
Job Choices program, which saw widespread participation across key industries...received glowing feedback from the general populace...over one third of those eligible had opted in...as much as 40% participation in many areas.
Their Workforce Modernisation program had seen similar numbers of participation (i.e. similar to 1/3rd of those eligible opted in, simliar to 40% in "many areas" opting in) and was proving equally popular amongst citizens.
Considered to be the larger sibling of their more selective Self Education Initiative, the WMP allocates resources and funding to workers through their corporate sponsors rather than on an individual basis. All of the "Big 8" MegaCorps opted in at least partially, lending considerable momentum to the program from the beginning.
The program was a two-pronged attack aimed at inequality and inefficiency in the workplace. One of the single largest outlays was the funding for the automation of over fifty million jobs in the last three months (that's millions benefitting right there alone, and that is just one part of one program - albeit the largest single reform, apparently). According to surveys taken from the report, this alone saw a drastic reduction of injury and dissatisfaction in affected workplaces....Dr. Saari did stress that if current spending and enrolment continued it would stand as the most expensive workplace reform in Caldari State history.
So we seem to have two programs.
WMP:
Big brushstrokes. Reaches out far across State society (most probably because it is implemented through corporate sponsorships, particularly the major eight)
SEI:
Significantly smaller program. Seems to be on a more individual/selective basis.
They both appear to be aimed towards similar ends but go about it in entirely different ways.
Anyways, not having a go at you Pottsey. The way they're worded demands some careful reading (and reading between the lines). I only really picked up a few things there when I saw your comment, thought "wait a minute..." and read through them both a second time. 
Anyhow...great read and people have said what I would have so I'll just focus on the picture which I found fascinating. It's very emotionally charged. Big red banners and huge vidscreens alone don't quite tell the whole story. That in itself looks like anything out of our own time, from a Soviet Rally to a US Democratic Convention.
What struck me is the way everyone is on their feet, clearly getting swept up in the emotion of the event (see them all reaching for Heth?) and how closely Heth is positioned to the people as to be visually "amongst them". It looks almost chaotic too, which is far removed from what one might typically expect from the Caldari State but is quintessential Heth if you think about it. Sure, it can all be staged propaganda as much as the next event, but there's an element of raw emotion and chaos to it that is "new". Kudos to the artist for a well thought out accompaniment. 
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.10.07 17:30:00 -
[24]
That makes far more sense, thanks for explaining. Thought it was a bit strange that only 30,000 people where effected.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.08 02:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Morgana Tsukiyo
stuff that almost seems IC
Is what you wrote Morgana in character? If it is fine, but I would point out that the Caldari do not hold the same values as western liberal democratic systems (the culture most of us live in).
Heth's campaign against the Gallente within the State (and Caldari Prime) can be seen as the extreme of his fight to remove overt Gallente cultural influences from all things Caldari. That this presumably benefits the majority of the State, who are Caldari, but hurts a minority to make the whole stronger is a very Caldari ideal. The well being of the majority is more important than the well being of any single individual or minority.
Lets take a classic example - courts of law and the idea of guilt vs innocence. Within some modern western cultures (at least the US) the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty is accepted and common value. However within Caldari culture it would normal that someone is or possibly multiple people are assumed guilty until evidence proves their innocence. The reason for this is to protect the whole of society while possible putting away 2-3 innocent men with the guilty one. Want to avoid the risk of any of the 4 being guilty, being free and thus continuing to threaten society.
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Corphus
The NewOrder
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Posted - 2008.10.08 12:51:00 -
[26]
well i hope there will be 3 more chronicles describing the political shift of the other 3 races. amarr become mad crusaders once again, gallente develope emselves into an orwellian big brother-state, and the minmatar shift from their tribal conflicts into a democratic scociety....good stuff.
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.08 13:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Corphus
the minmatar shift from their tribal conflicts into a democratic scociety....good stuff.
That isn't what I read, seemed like they are dropping parliamentary democracy in favor of tribal council with a dictator.
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Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Originally by: Corphus
the minmatar shift from their tribal conflicts into a democratic scociety....good stuff.
That isn't what I read, seemed like they are dropping parliamentary democracy in favor of tribal council with a dictator.
The way I understand it, the position of San Matar is not a dictator but a mediator...I described it in one thread as a cross between a President and a Supreme Court judge. I haven't seen a true legislative position in the job description yet. At the least, you can't call it a dictatorship when the tribal leaders have an almost equal degree of power within their own tribes. Maybe we'll be seing a "constitutional oligarchy" take shape, or Parliment may even remain in some form.
</tangent>
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Zombie27
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:52:00 -
[29]
Great Story. This changed my view on the Caldari State. In the begining I thought they were based more on strict capitalism but this story shows more of a communist side of their government (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Out of the four races the Caldari State is the only government I would live under. Is Heth a dictator? (sorry I'm still catching up on Eve history).
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.09 04:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zombie27
Great Story. This changed my view on the Caldari State. In the begining I thought they were based more on strict capitalism but this story shows more of a communist side of their government (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Out of the four races the Caldari State is the only government I would live under. Is Heth a dictator? (sorry I'm still catching up on Eve history).
Heth is pretty much a dictator. If you live in a western country you likely live in some combo of the Gallente and Caldari governments.
The State is sort of socialist sort of not. Heth is enacting reforms that seem communist, but only because there was literally nothing before. It might be looked at as similar to the reforms that FDR enacted in the US following the great depression.
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Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 05:20:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 09/10/2008 05:21:28
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Edited by: Dex Nederland on 07/10/2008 06:13:37
Good stuff there Abraxas, did you write this one?
There are blatant connections between the Caldari story arc and that of National Socialist Germany (1933-1939). I am alright with it from a storytelling perspective and more than willing to play the patriot; the only problem I see with the ease of drawing the parallels is that those players not willing to see deeper are going to associate the entirety of it with NS Germany.
From this I would assume that the Caldari central government is increasing its overall power; so is KK basically throwing its weight around to ensure the government agents are put in place?
edit: my "Y" button seemed to not work for some reason when I spelled Germany
Strange, I saw more Communism as it "should be". It's true that Marxist Communism has never been practiced. Stalin, Lenin, Kim Jon, all of them practiced Dictatorship, not Communism. The wealth 'trickled up' exactly like Capitalism, instead of 'around'.  (This Communistic-Dictatorship is similar to Roman-Dictatorship which laid the grounds for Western "Democracy").
The Naz! analogy is H!tler the "Christian" killing Jews. Jesus was Jewish and stated that the Old Testament was cannon to his teachings. Yet, 'Christians' separated from Judaism and persecuted them for financial gain throughout history. That makes them "liars". Christianity also is rarely practiced.
Let's not forget when France voted(?!) to not join the 'Coalition of The Willing' based on bad evidence, and were badmouthed for being unpatriotic(?! To whom?) No "Freedom Fries" for them. Voting is not practiced in Western countries apparently as it was a shock to my leader... (Elections are still suspect...)
I just don't understand why masses of people will take someone at their word, when their actions say otherwise. The real parallels here are that leaders say anything to gain power, completely betraying the philosophy and masses in the first place.
Tibus' actions are all-around positive. This new Caldari perspective seems like a 'utopia'(blasphemy *gasp*) in the making. Let's see how long it lasts.
Live and Let Die...All of it...null |
Garion Avarr
Amarr
Zero Zero Traders
YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 16:12:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Garion Avarr on 09/10/2008 16:12:50
Wait wait. Encouraging racism is part of making a Utopia? Heth is making some positive reforms, yes. But a certain German leader also made some positive reforms, in fact he did quite a lot to help his country at a time when it was strugling -- he also did a lot of very horrible things that outweighed this, and it is looking like Heth may be going in that direction. Heth isn't quite that bad, not yet, but his actions certainly aren't all around positive, and they have some very strong echos of the tactics used by said German leader.
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This is not a signature. |
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.09 20:58:00 -
[33]
Heth's actions may seem to be creating a utopia. However if you've read the novel you will be aware that:
- The people he overthrew where mostly just as greedy and self-centred as this piece suggests; with the apparent exception of poor, dead Otto.
- Heth is, literally, a raving maniac. He is a member of one of the more reviled terrorist organisations in the cluster (strange how nobody else has noticed the membership tatoo on his wrist) and a big part of his motivation is making the Gallente suffer.
- He doesn't show much real leadership potential in the book. His original uprising is intended to end with the rebels (including himself) as martyrs. Most of his major ideas are spoon-fed to him by the puppet master who has given him power and created the conditions for the Caldari & Gallente to go to war.
As for the parallels with present day politics. I'd be surprised if they weren't there. We generally base fictitious ideas on concepts that we are already familiar with. Didn't stop me from hearing "Springtime for ******" in my mind as I read this though. 
<Can we loose, or at least adjust, this idiot auto censor please? For some reason it objects to me writing the name of the main tune of the show within the show "The Producers".>
Regards,
Arnulf Ogunkoya. |
Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.12 18:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôAnd if ive read it right there are to jovian races basicly dark jov an light jov both have interefeired heavily with all the racesö
The Jove have at least 8 groups/bloodlines and 1 group caused the current war between the 4 empires.
I'd love to see a real source for all of this, for now I'm calling BS. |
Freezehunter
Gallente
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 11:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Arnulf Ogunkoya
Heth's actions may seem to be creating a utopia. However if you've read the novel you will be aware that:
- The people he overthrew where mostly just as greedy and self-centred as this piece suggests; with the apparent exception of poor, dead Otto.
- Heth is, literally, a raving maniac. He is a member of one of the more reviled terrorist organisations in the cluster (strange how nobody else has noticed the membership tatoo on his wrist) and a big part of his motivation is making the Gallente suffer.
- He doesn't show much real leadership potential in the book. His original uprising is intended to end with the rebels (including himself) as martyrs. Most of his major ideas are spoon-fed to him by the puppet master who has given him power and created the conditions for the Caldari & Gallente to go to war.
As for the parallels with present day politics. I'd be surprised if they weren't there. We generally base fictitious ideas on concepts that we are already familiar with. Didn't stop me from hearing "Springtime for ******" in my mind as I read this though.
<Can we loose, or at least adjust, this idiot auto censor please? For some reason it objects to me writing the name of the main tune of the show within the show "The Producers".>
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:25:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Heyte on 14/10/2008 05:34:46
This little chronicle was a bit interesting for me... why? Because I always thought caldari culture was a meritocracy to begin with and that those who failed were basically thrown on the street where they may as well kill themselves. Also, the plutocratic undertones (megacorporations) and all that kinda make them more capitalist then america.
I always viewed caldari with their logic based lifestyle and work ethic as having their own ideals which were not tolerated by lazy suburb-goers and mass consumerists (also corporate dictatorship kinda gets rid of the entertainment media, because it's a conglomerate, it controls investment for the 'greater good'). Similar to how some people don't tolerate jews or asians/indians if they're better at math, even though such people are just lazy and don't study enough. Which was kinda why they ended up seperating, IMO.
That's how you could tell them apart from Gallente (which are a softer, multi-cultural corporate mash-up similar to some views of the US on a interstellar scale... also, their citizens are more ignorant and with all the media being shot into their brains (literally, since it's the future) as such you might find gallente college goers protesting all sorts of issues as well as taking courses like 'art appreciation' or some other liberal thing I can't think of). I'd try to compare Gallente to Canada rather then the US, but then I remember that Gallente actually has a military (an instellar one at that) and probably isn't so passive about issues.
At least that's what I thought. o.0
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Digger One
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 -
[37]
First, very well done chronicle, as always :)
Second, I don't see why so many people point out the Caldari as being communist. In fact, they act like outright fascists. As already metioned by a few, it's pretty much like post WWI Germany. People shouldn't forget the the term "****" is a german abbreviation for national socialism. While the 3rd Reich opposed communism as an ideology as by any means possible, they borrowed heavily from its ideas. Actually picturing Caldari going down that road is just logical from their already fascist setup.
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CaldariAdam
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:31:00 -
[38]
A great piece. We have dreams for the future that we all take part in making.
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Hurs Sokira
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2008.10.24 04:30:00 -
[39]
Those few who got to know me over the last several years are, no doubt, aware that lately I have been perhaps one of the most vociferous critics of current FW storyline in particular, and CCP's attitude to RP in general (not to mention the "Empyrean Age" book  ).
However, I would like to express my sincere thanks to CCP Gnauton and others who are responsible for releasing this particular chronicle. In the absence of official information, myself and other Caldari RPers had to develop a rather complex view of the State, one that clashed dramatically with two-dimensional cartoon presented during introduction of Factional Warfare. This Chronicle goes a long way in putting things in order and establishing framework for current "state of the State", one that was so lacking over last year or so. Again, THANK YOU.
My only plea to CCP is as follows. Please, PLEASE concentrate on thinking about the Empires and social forces that may be moving them and release more chronicles just like these. These short, but informative chronicles are SO much better for RP than any overhyped books or dramatic newsitems put together.
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Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Caldari
Haruspex Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:03:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dralverin
sweet story as to the fact of caldari being communist well in a way yes in a even bigger way no..when you look at communism most ppl see everyone working and leaders working for the greater good? wrong!
Communism is the oposite of a meritocracy communism had more in common with european elitism in that the USSR, modern day bannana republics, and other socalist aand communist governments inevitably bring a portion of the population related to the government to extrordinary hights at the expense of the magority. Also this inevitably brings about stagnation in the places of power because the elite will use there power to promote there own ppl thuse sealing off the government and sence most if not all communist gov practice rigide gun control the ability of the ppl to gain back that power is low very low.(also one of the reasons russia has a horrible infantry for the most part sence infantry dont require large amounts of support in fuel and parts and are better at fighting in cities).
Also if you look at the caldari they dont use a one party system like communism. more like a limited democracy.very limited.(also for those who think communism is diff. than socalism marx never made any difference or to quote a frenchmen "socalism is simply communism without the gun")
Comunism and Socialism suffer same problem...most are greedy. There used to be alot of communes in america and they did ok...until the next generation inevitably left and the commune died.
Ok so its kind of a rant but thought the diff and simularities between caldari and communist where interesting..
and dude if you ever wondered how **** germany started look at the obama ppls its freaky they chant and damn near worship the man teach there children to sing about him....hell substitute environmentalism for ****sm and there you have it
Hmm - I think that's something of a weak generalisation - are you saying that we donn't see nepotism in western democracies? Surely you're not forgetting the Kennedy dynasty or the Bush dynasty or even the Clinton Dynasty.
I think it would be wise to leave RL politics out of internet spaceship games - likening Obama supporters to **** fanatics is pretty rediculous - I'm guessing white, middle class republican guy there? |
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