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RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
683
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:05:00 -
[241] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:RougeOperator wrote: The label was not wrong, I think the pressure on him to change a correct label was crazy to here. And Alex using and misrepresenting what people think cyber bullying is and was terrible. And no one challenged him on it. Someone needed to say hey wait a second this is what Most people think it is. You are saying its X.
Cyber-bulling is absolutely a loaded phrase especially within the context of video games, which are viewed by the general public as an inherently youthful hobby. The phase itself itself conjures up an image of an emotionally defenseless and immature 12 year-old who is in need of protection and not a middle-age adult who should have the agency to defend himself.
Law doesn't see it as an inherently youthful hobby.
Harassment has been on the books in some form or another.
Cyber bully is just a subset of how harassment laws work.
Loaded word or not. It was still accurately applied.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
46
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:05:00 -
[242] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully?
Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide? Drunk ******* would have sufficed, given the circumstances. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
DJ FunkyBacon
Eve Radio Corporation
55
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:09:00 -
[243] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:RougeOperator wrote: The label was not wrong, I think the pressure on him to change a correct label was crazy to here. And Alex using and misrepresenting what people think cyber bullying is and was terrible. And no one challenged him on it. Someone needed to say hey wait a second this is what Most people think it is. You are saying its X.
Cyber-bulling is absolutely a loaded phrase especially within the context of video games, which are viewed by the general public as an inherently youthful hobby. The phase itself itself conjures up an image of an emotionally defenseless and immature 12 year-old who is in need of protection and not a middle-age adult who should have the agency to defend himself. What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully? Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide?
The label I used on air is 100% completely censored on these forums.
Quote:Fair enough, it's your show, but you did make a big fuss about media accountability and integrity, and them basically allowed Alex to bully and lecture Brendan.
Question: Are you afraid to use Alex's name here (or elsewhere) in relation to the issue at hand? As I mentioned before, it wasn't a guy named "mittens" who farked-up in front of thousands of people and potantially put CCP in a legal quagmire, it was Alex. I mean Alex does have "his people" and "friends at CCP", so I can completely understand if you are hesitant to call him by his name because of that.
I call Alex Mittens because that's what I've always called him any time I've ever spoken to him. Brendon for the same reason. |
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:10:00 -
[244] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Berke Negri wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Fair enough, it's your show, but you did make a big fuss about media accountability and integrity, and them basically allowed Alex to bully and lecture Brendan.
Question: Are you afraid to use Alex's name here (or elsewhere) in relation to the issue at hand? As I mentioned before, it wasn't a guy named "mittens" who farked-up in front of thousands of people and potantially put CCP in a legal quagmire, it was Alex. I mean Alex does have "his people" and "friends at CCP", so I can completely understand if you are hesitant to call him by his name because of that.
and by "constantly using" mittens "real name" it seriously "makes you" look like a total psycho so best of luck with that, i guess Alex was not in-game roleplaying as "The Mittani" when he committed his despicable act. Otherwise CCP would not have sanctioned him, it would not have placed CCP in legal jeopardy , and he would not have apologized. So, the person at issue is not "mittens". Hopefully you get that? this may come as a shock to you, npc alt, but the exact count of how many times the host used alex or brendain's names doesn't matter |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
699
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:11:00 -
[245] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Doc Fury wrote:What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully?
Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide? Drunk ******* would have sufficed, given the circumstances.
Well, players don't get banned or sanctioned publicly by CCP for being a drunk **** now do they?
Spin or downplay it however you want, the adults and CCP executives don't find it very amusing.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
46
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:15:00 -
[246] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Well, players don't get banned or sanctioned publicly by CCP for being a drunk **** now do they? The Mittani did.
Doc Fury wrote:Spin or downplay it however you want, the adults and CCP executives don't find it very amusing. Nice, sneak in a personal attack. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
683
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:17:00 -
[247] - Quote
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:RougeOperator wrote:
Imagine listeners cant know this stuff. Your telling us now, way after the fact.
Even then the way the mittani, ALEX since we are using peoples real names, interview went was not an interview you gave him a platform to rant and witch hunt against massively.
Whom unlike ALEX the MITTANI, did not actually do anything wrong.
The label was not wrong, I think the pressure on him to change a correct label was crazy to here. And Alex using and misrepresenting what people think cyber bullying is and was terrible. And no one challenged him on it. Someone needed to say hey wait a second this is what Most people think it is. You are saying its X.
It came off as a one sided propaganda piece. Withe a beaten down massively editor being brow beat into submission.
Knowing him and being a mate and rules and guidelines etc do not change that fact. Honestly you should have said Please refrain from using his full name at least.
First, I haven't used his full name here, but that's hardly of consequence, since he blogs using his full real life name. You are perfectly entitled to the opinion that the label should stick, and I'm not here to tell you how to think. You're claiming Brendon was browbeat by the mittani on air, I've had others complain that it was a Dr. Phil session with the two of them just hugging it out and kissing and making up. A lot of people found it very civil, and have commented that they expected it to be abrasive, but were surprised it wasn't. And I never told any of those people what to think. As I've said before, the purpose was to put the unedited views of those involved out in front of you to make your own mind up. If everyone was responding the same way, then I'd have done a **** poor job at what I set out to do. The fact that responses here and elsewhere have ranged from how you feel, to middle of the road, to the complete opposite, and everyone seems to have taken something different from the coverage tells me things went pretty well. I'm sorry you're upset.
Yeah I read the DR PHIL comments as well.
You should also note Im not in any more my posts using anyone's full name on purpose. I was making a point with the shot ALEX I was using.
But on your show Alex did use full names. Which is very objectionable and should have not been allowed.
And based on what I heard it seemed that Massively was just accepting what mittens said because they just didn't know any better on the issue. At least not enough to defend themselves from the onslaught and tirade that was leveled against them. So it seemed that there was some panic to fix it. I felt really bad for massively cause it came off as a clear brow beating when the original article was not as bad as Alex made it out to be. I thought it was tame compared to other sites I read.
It was like a Stockholm syndrome situation was taking place to me. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:19:00 -
[248] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Well, players don't get banned or sanctioned publicly by CCP for being a drunk **** now do they? The Mittani did. Except he didn't. He got banned for crossing the line, be it drunk or not.
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Kai Tel
State War Academy Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:19:00 -
[249] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Now that someone has posted Mittens' real life address along with a threat to **** his wife can we expect the same media circus, public shaming and bans for violating the EULA? (Not to mention a criminal conviction.)
EVE is simply an internet space ships game. It's little more than trumped up visual checkers where you're encouraged to find ways to cheat the other player. Meta-gaming has become too ingrained into EVE play and people are taking it too far. This includes Goons and the people they have aggro'ed from around the world by means of being complete assholes. It's not REAL and is just something people partake of for fun. I think it safe to say that people's ideas of fun through EVE have become ******* sick over time as it really wasn't this way in the begining..
Considering the personal character Mitty has shown through the years when it comes to EVE and metagaming, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a lie. However, If I were in his shoes and supposedly had people threatening my wife, my dog, and my well being while stalking me etc. I'd QUIT. It's just a a supposedly fun game and not worth that kind of real life trouble. I couldn't do that to my family over just a damn hobby. It's stupid to put up with it.
Pfft... At this rate the CFC and the entire north are going to be the focus of a Jerry Springer special. I am not sure Steve can break up the fights though. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
702
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:21:00 -
[250] - Quote
Berke Negri wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Berke Negri wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Fair enough, it's your show, but you did make a big fuss about media accountability and integrity, and them basically allowed Alex to bully and lecture Brendan.
Question: Are you afraid to use Alex's name here (or elsewhere) in relation to the issue at hand? As I mentioned before, it wasn't a guy named "mittens" who farked-up in front of thousands of people and potantially put CCP in a legal quagmire, it was Alex. I mean Alex does have "his people" and "friends at CCP", so I can completely understand if you are hesitant to call him by his name because of that.
and by "constantly using" mittens "real name" it seriously "makes you" look like a total psycho so best of luck with that, i guess Alex was not in-game roleplaying as "The Mittani" when he committed his despicable act. Otherwise CCP would not have sanctioned him, it would not have placed CCP in legal jeopardy , and he would not have apologized. So, the person at issue is not "mittens". Hopefully you get that? this may come as a shock to you, npc alt, but the exact count of how many times the host used alex or brendain's names doesn't matter
You finally played the "NPC alt" card. I see you are out of valid arguments and now need to reach for the ad hominem attack.
My corporation association is not relevant to my being able to have a valid opinion as a paying subscriber here and does not lessen my credibility whatsoever.
(FYI, I''ve been posting with Doc for twice as long as you have played this game)
Using Alex's name matters, because using a pseudonym to refer to someone that did what Alex did in real life can only serve to dehumanize him and his atrocious behavior, instead of facing it head-on for what it is, despicable and harmful to CCP and their success. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
|
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:24:00 -
[251] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Except he didn't. He got banned for crossing the line, be it drunk or not. Exactly, because he was being an *******. He deserved what he got. However, given that he was referring to someone playing a video game who used RL suicide as a threat (something I find equally deplorable to inciting suicide), I hardly think "cyber-bully" is appropriate. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
683
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:27:00 -
[252] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Except he didn't. He got banned for crossing the line, be it drunk or not. Exactly, because he was being an *******. He deserved what he got. However, given that he was referring to someone playing a video game who used RL suicide as a threat (something I find equally deplorable to inciting suicide), I hardly think "cyber-bully" is appropriate.
What the other character said or did is not even and issue.
And because someone else might have lied, that's not reason to push them to their death. You cant justify or diminish the crime based on not liking what someone said.
It dosent stop being bullying.
What if the next person that make the claim Isnt lying?
Two wrongs do not make a right. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:27:00 -
[253] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully?
Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide?
Would it really even be considered harassment considering this occurred within a completely option leisure activity that has pre-existing anonymity through derived character names and mechanisms to avoid unwanted interactions? It didn't impact either his livelihood nor his personal identity space.
The media and laymen both have preconceived notions when it comes to videogames and the media is in the business of selling ad revenue through sensationalism not actual information distribution and public education. |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
683
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:30:00 -
[254] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:Doc Fury wrote: What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully?
Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide?
Would it really even be considered harassment considering this occurred within a completely option leisure activity that has pre-existing anonymity through derived character names and mechanisms to avoid unwanted interactions? It didn't impact either his livelihood nor his personal identity space. The media and laymen both have preconceived notions when it comes to videogames and the media is in the business of selling ad revenue through sensationalism not actual information distribution and public education.
Harassing someone on a video game or social site does count as harassment in most US districts.
Also the fact it was incitement to suicide does not vanish just cause you want too.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:32:00 -
[255] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:What the other character said or did is not even and issue.
What if the next person that make the claim Isnt lying?
Two wrongs do not make a right. Whether the person was serious or not, claiming suicide when in-game (IN-GAME!) assets are destroyed is pretty ****** up. It's a sick attempt to get what you want. You'd assume CCP would have some sort of EVE mail scraping utility to look for **** like that.
Now, I don't blame The Wis for what happened to The Mittani; The Mittani did that to himself. But given the situation I would hardly call The Mittani a cyber-bully. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:35:00 -
[256] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Except he didn't. He got banned for crossing the line, be it drunk or not. Exactly, because he was being an *******. He deserved what he got. However, given that he was referring to someone playing a video game who used RL suicide as a threat (something I find equally deplorable to inciting suicide), I hardly think "cyber-bully" is appropriate. Semantics. You're getting caught on the wiki definition of "cyber-bully", which is fine by me. Obviously it bothers Alexander to be associated with cyber-bullying but he's only attempting to grasp to any strings he possibly can. But he is a bully and he does it by meta-gaming and using the game as his tool.
He spits in the air all of the time. This time he swollowed and obviously didn't like the taste. This interview was nothing but him bitching about meta-gaming and about it not being fair to him. Ironic, isn't it?
And again he excuses his behavior due to alcohol, when he'd been hanging to this email for months knowing that it was from someone susceptible to suicide and self-harm. Why? Because this **** turns him on and a few others on. It gives HIM (Alexander) pleasure to see someone suffering. That is simply not normal behavior. |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:38:00 -
[257] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:
What the other character said or did is not even and issue.
And because someone else might have lied, that's not reason to push them to their death. You cant justify or diminish the crime based on not liking what someone said.
It dosent stop being bullying.
What if the next person that make the claim Isnt lying?
We should not and do not base our cultural norms around mentally unstable people. They need to confront their particular reality and receive professional treatment otherwise a red light or rainy day is just as likely to push them over the tipping point as is someone being mean to them inside of a fake reality. |
Thomas Orca
Northstar Cabal Fatal Ascension
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:46:00 -
[258] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Except he didn't. He got banned for crossing the line, be it drunk or not. Exactly, because he was being an *******. He deserved what he got. However, given that he was referring to someone playing a video game who used RL suicide as a threat (something I find equally deplorable to inciting suicide), I hardly think "cyber-bully" is appropriate. What the other character said or did is not even and issue. And because someone else might have lied, that's not reason to push them to their death. You cant justify or diminish the crime based on not liking what someone said. .
"What the other person said is irrelevant!" "What the other person said is relevant!"
Make up your ******* mind. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1425
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:46:00 -
[259] - Quote
I love how Goons and pets have worked so hard to build the shithole rep that they have and when it comes around to bite them in the ass they cry like little ponies being bombarded from orbit.
Sorry Goons...your dear leader ****** up bigtime. He was wrong, you are wrong and now you will forever be remembered for this one point in EvE's history when you all went emo after losing the fight. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:47:00 -
[260] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Semantics. You're getting caught on the wiki definition of "cyber-bully", which is fine by me. Obviously it bothers Alexander to be associated with cyber-bullying but he's only attempting to grasp to any strings he possibly can. But he is a bully and he does it by meta-gaming and using the game as his tool. Fair enough. I don't really see his or Goon actions as "bullying" per se because I don't see them targeting the same person over and over. If you want to get technical, you could say they "bully the game", but it's a PvP sandbox.
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:He spits in the air all of the time. This time he swollowed and obviously didn't like the taste. This interview was nothing but him bitching about meta-gaming and about it not being fair to him. Ironic, isn't it? I didn't actually get that from him but then, I just think Goons are a bunch of people who like to play video games together. He certainly is arrogant, but I also feel like he owned up to being an ******* and apologized appropriately.
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:And again he excuses his behavior due to alcohol, when he'd been hanging to this email for months knowing that it was from someone susceptible to suicide and self-harm. Why? Because this **** turns him on and a few others on. It gives HIM (Alexander) pleasure to see someone suffering. That is simply not normal behavior. Again, I may get arrogant from him, but not sadist. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
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Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
703
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 03:53:00 -
[261] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:Doc Fury wrote: What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully?
Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide?
Would it really even be considered harassment considering this occurred within a completely option leisure activity that has pre-existing anonymity through derived character names and mechanisms to avoid unwanted interactions? It didn't impact either his livelihood nor his personal identity space. The media and laymen both have preconceived notions when it comes to videogames and the media is in the business of selling ad revenue through sensationalism not actual information distribution and public education.
It's beyond simple harassment, has nothing to do really with preconceived notions of "video games" and is actionable in at least 3 countries (AUS, GB, and US), 2 of which CCP does direct business in where they could suffer liability. That's why the ban happened, and why an official statement from CCP occurred. CCPs legal exposure here is quite significant. Ginger Magician for instance did not get an official CCP statement when he was banned for threatening a player's RL welfare, he just got perma-banned because he was not inciting anyone else, and violated in-game rules (now called the "magic circle").
One more time:
Quote:"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted], he has his own corp. Find him."
The above was proclaimed by Alex only after setting-up a premeditated presentation that illustrated a specific in-game player claimed to be suicidal in real life. It may not be 100% technically accurate, but it is also not disingenuous for anyone including the media to call his suggestion to harass a player until they went over the edge to commit suicide, "cyber-bullying". The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:18:00 -
[262] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Semantics. You're getting caught on the wiki definition of "cyber-bully", which is fine by me. Obviously it bothers Alexander to be associated with cyber-bullying but he's only attempting to grasp to any strings he possibly can. But he is a bully and he does it by meta-gaming and using the game as his tool. Fair enough. I don't really see his or Goon actions as "bullying" per se because I don't see them targeting the same person over and over. If you want to get technical, you could say they "bully the game", but it's a PvP sandbox. MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:He spits in the air all of the time. This time he swollowed and obviously didn't like the taste. This interview was nothing but him bitching about meta-gaming and about it not being fair to him. Ironic, isn't it? I didn't actually get that from him but then, I just think Goons are a bunch of people who like to play video games together. He certainly is arrogant, but I also feel like he owned up to being an ******* and apologized appropriately. MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:And again he excuses his behavior due to alcohol, when he'd been hanging to this email for months knowing that it was from someone susceptible to suicide and self-harm. Why? Because this **** turns him on and a few others on. It gives HIM (Alexander) pleasure to see someone suffering. That is simply not normal behavior. Again, I may get arrogant from him, but not sadist. I have to disagree. In my opinion and to me saving emails of suicide-inclined players as trophies and sharing them to point and laugh is not arrogance, but rather sadism. And to me he went way over the line with that one. Him asking others to incite suicide was just additional **** to up the ante.
I saw the interview. And his concern laid exclusively with his well-being and how he feels wronged. Basically, he apologized for being drunk, not for premeditating and realizing the whole incident. I realize not everyone will find this behavior as abhorrent as I do. But his hypocrisy is undenying.
By the way, I have no doubt in my mind that had this situation turned for the worse (and the player had committed suicide) and without CCP intervention that the goons and Alexander himself would not just have washed their hands clean but would have also proudly enjoyed some laughs and giggles over it. |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
683
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:19:00 -
[263] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:Doc Fury wrote: What "label" would you use exactly? Truthfully?
Also, can you understand why the "media" or laymen might use that term vs, incitement to suicide?
Would it really even be considered harassment considering this occurred within a completely option leisure activity that has pre-existing anonymity through derived character names and mechanisms to avoid unwanted interactions? It didn't impact either his livelihood nor his personal identity space. The media and laymen both have preconceived notions when it comes to videogames and the media is in the business of selling ad revenue through sensationalism not actual information distribution and public education. It's beyond simple harassment, has nothing to do really with preconceived notions of "video games" and is actionable in at least 3 countries (AUS, GB, and US), 2 of which CCP does direct business in where they could suffer liability. That's why the ban happened, and why an official statement from CCP occurred. CCPs legal exposure here is quite significant. Ginger Magician for instance did not get an official CCP statement when he was banned for threatening a player's RL welfare, he just got perma-banned because he was not inciting anyone else, and violated in-game rules (now called the "magic circle"). One more time: Quote:"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [redacted], he has his own corp. Find him." The above was proclaimed by Alex only after setting-up a premeditated presentation that illustrated a specific in-game player claimed to be suicidal in real life. It may not be 100% technically accurate, but it is also not disingenuous for anyone including the media to call his suggestion to harass a player until they went over the edge to commit suicide, "cyber-bullying".
Thats what made it clear cut. In game character or not, knowing his real name or not. He was inciting people to drive him to IRL suicide.
And how long would it have been before someone found out his IRL name and took it further then just the game. This is the type of stuff that has happened in many other cases of cyber stalking and bullying.
He basically was painting a target on the guy. And in cases of cyber lynch mobs I do not doubt it would have bleed over beyond just the game in short order. Especially with a group like the goons whom do out of game meta crap all the time.
Thats why this was dead serious stuff. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:26:00 -
[264] - Quote
If you really think this is in anyway actionable on any shore you need to immediately get your law degree refunded. The context in which this situation occurred and the surrounding frivolity make it too ridiculous to ever consider. He clearly tried to have the man killed. Why isn't he in prison?
Again with Mitten's real name. You're clearly not obsessed and fixated at all. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
383
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:30:00 -
[265] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:In my opinion and to me saving emails of suicide-inclined players as trophies and sharing them to point and laugh is not arrogance, but rather sadism. And to me he went way over the line with that one. Him asking others to incite suicide was just additional **** to up the ante.
Having been in no less than a dozen corporations with my various alts over the years where this kind of thing was standard fare, color me less than impressed by the bold. Making people extremely mad, upset, and generally unwilling to log in and fight back has been a mainstay of EVE pvp since I created character number one back in 2004.
As for the incite to suicide bit, you can characterize the apology as a feint if you like, but the apology was for that action. He may not have fully bent over, gracefully quit EVE of his own volition forever, and whatever other extreme penance the forum-alt community was clamoring for, but he made a public apology and a private one with the guy and even sent him isk.
I've been frank from the get-go of this shitstorm that the address was his gaff, premeditated or drunkenly conjured by a fel wizard hat. But, in terms of EVE conduct in general that was a toe-step over the line. Considering the responses from the mittani detractors was not merely mind-games, but direct physical threats (complete with address listing), I think you can extrapolate there's a whole lot more sadism tucked away in the unknown lurker publords than in the mind of one king of space. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
703
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:40:00 -
[266] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:If you really think this is in anyway actionable on any shore you need to immediately get your law degree refunded. The context in which this situation occurred and the surrounding frivolity make it too ridiculous to ever consider. He clearly tried to have the man killed. Why isn't he in prison? Again with Mitten's real name. You're clearly not obsessed and fixated at all.
It's only actionable if the player who was "bullied" presses charges, or he actually killed himself.
CCP's legal exposure is very significant if either should happen, and regardless, this whole debacle paints a bad picture to the media, consumers, partners and competitors because CCP allowed it to occur in a venue they promoted and sponsored and supposedly vetted for 3rd party content.
I already explained previously why using anything but Alex's real name in this specific situation is appropriate, which has nothing to do with fixation or obsession no matter how much you might want to perceive or spin it that way to suit your argument.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
703
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:45:00 -
[267] - Quote
OfBalance wrote: direct physical threats (complete with address listing), I think you can extrapolate there's a whole lot more sadism tucked away in the unknown lurker publords than in the mind of one king of space.
He (or anyone who receives a RL threat) should definitely alert the appropriate authorities and then CCP without delay.
Such revelations do not have any place here, and would only serve to fan the flames and entice other "publords" to join-in or follow along. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:58:00 -
[268] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:If you really think this is in anyway actionable on any shore you need to immediately get your law degree refunded. The context in which this situation occurred and the surrounding frivolity make it too ridiculous to ever consider. He clearly tried to have the man killed. Why isn't he in prison? Again with Mitten's real name. You're clearly not obsessed and fixated at all. It's only actionable if the player who was "bullied" presses charges, or he actually killed himself. CCP's legal exposure is very significant if either should happen, and regardless, this whole debacle paints a bad picture to the media, consumers, partners and competitors because CCP allowed it to occur in a venue they promoted and sponsored and supposedly vetted for 3rd party content. I already explained previously why using anything but Alex's real name in this specific situation is appropriate, which has nothing to do with fixation or obsession no matter how much you might want to perceive or spin it that way to suit your argument.
There's very little legal exposure, if any at all. At worst it was poor media exposure they were concerned about. The victim was an middle-aged adult which nearly absolves CCP of any legality. Had this been a minor or juvenile, the circumstances would be vastly different.
Your absurd rationality for utilizing Mitten's real name is not in anyway appropriate. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
706
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 05:10:00 -
[269] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:
There's very little legal exposure, if any at all. At worst it was poor media exposure they were concerned about. The victim was an middle-aged adult which nearly absolves CCP of any legality. Had this been a minor or juvenile, the circumstances would be vastly different.
For a "cyber bulling" legal action perhaps. But you and your ilk keep saying that's not what happened here at all, and I agree. Public incitement to suicide however, applies to any age. There are cases being tried in the US right now.
Frederick Sanger wrote: Your absurd rationality for utilizing Mitten's real name is not in anyway appropriate.
I can only quote your dear leader here: ~get over it~ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 05:24:00 -
[270] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
For a "cyber bulling" legal action perhaps. But you and your ilk keep saying that's not what happened here at all, and I agree. incitement to suicide however, applies to any age. There are cases being tried in the US right now.
Incitement of suicide of a middle-aged adult over video games? Seriously. The look on that judge's face would be priceless.
Doc Fury wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote: Your absurd rationality for utilizing Mitten's real name is not in anyway appropriate.
I can only quote your dear leader here: ~deal with it~
I should quote you EULA / TOS that shows where you are clearly in the wrong but I'd rather say that I sincerely hope you truly do deal with it and get some professional help. |
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