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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Captain Nuf
Gallente Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:21:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Captain Nuf on 15/10/2008 15:31:28 I like it. I would love to be able to add individual players, corporations, alliances, or global (for those that crave the epeen) to permissions to access a tab on your info or something to allow the respective parties access to view the certs a character holds - off by default of course.
One pet peeve about Eve is how people collect things that there is no way to show off unless you fly it or you leave it in your hangar so a security officer in your corp can sneak a peek.
Also on the wish list would be a way for corp/alliance officers to create and distribute awards that could be displayed with descriptions through the info.
<edit addendum> Nice also to allow a corp officer type to configure prerequisite sets of certificates for a corp that would automatically display qualifications, e.g. Squad/Wing/Fleet Commander, Recon, Command, Carrier, etc. abilities. Access to view these would also have to be corp/player configurable as well. Maybe they could just show a corp configurable list of skill prerequisites a member holds in player info titles or even an additional tab in the show info window.
CNUF-
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Gragnor
Groove Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.15 16:17:00 -
[92]
Can we have a Matar certificate please. Pre-requistes are Large Projectile 5 and Minmatar Battleship 5.
It is in recognition of all the months wasted training to fly the useless battleships we now have.
At least with Certificates we will have something to show for it.
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Captain Nuf
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.15 16:29:00 -
[93]
Will we be able to configure certs within a corp to create degree programs? lol Here I go again thinking like an educator. Adding a player configurable aspect to the system whereas corp training leadership can configure a compilation of certificates that would append certain titles within the corp structure would enable situational awareness of capability within the membership as well as enhance management of corporate training goals.
It definitely seems to hold a lot of potential for alliance building and training program management. CNUF-
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Captain Nuf
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.15 16:42:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Gragnor Can we have a Matar certificate please. Pre-requistes are Large Projectile 5 and Minmatar Battleship 5.
It is in recognition of all the months wasted training to fly the useless battleships we now have.
At least with Certificates we will have something to show for it.
You're advocating to have something to show you've trained "...useless (skills)?" I imagine most people would like to hide that sort of personal judgment.
CNUF-
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Irogwai Senjyna
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Posted - 2008.10.15 20:47:00 -
[95]
I am sorry but this feature is as useless as headache. If you show certs to everyone, you clearly indicate your strengths and weaknesses, so this benefits your enemies. If you show the certs only to your corp/alli-mates, you could as well give out your API key. So what's the real benefit? PLEASE spend your time on generating new game content, not for redundant meta data. What about additions to make exploration, mining, bounty hunting more interesting? That is what we are waiting for...
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Annika Kitten
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.15 20:57:00 -
[96]
These are great! The only thing I would ask is please put the option to allow not just Private/public but also make it public to corp or alliance. And/or public by standing level. I can see alot of need to allow my corp see my certs but I don't want to show them to everyone like war targets.
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Aiko Intaki
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Posted - 2008.10.15 21:10:00 -
[97]
To best implement this (for both new players and veterans alike), I would implement certs as a full-blow abstraction of skills. As such, a new player could select a cert to train for and have that cert "loaded" into a training queue in a reasonably efficient order to be advanced until the cert is achieved. Present this as the initial default skill view under the character info sheet, and then provide an option to look at "detailed skill information" (thus bypassing it).
The advantages:
1. Skills are abstracted into measureable achievements for new players. 2. Noobies (with shorter skill training times) have useful skill queues to aid in training. 3. Veterans (with longer training times) can completely ignore certs if desired.
As proposed, however, I think it will be very difficult to keep it from becoming simply another confusing feature amongst the jungle of already overwhelming confusion which is EvE. Granted, that's actually what I enjoy about the game, but it sounds like that's not quite what you're going for.
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.15 23:55:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Nice. Now just add "Train for this certificate" and you've perfected the system ;)
Indeed you would have just created a skill queue ;-P
IZ
My principles
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.16 00:35:00 -
[99]
Although the certificates themselves confer no bonuses...
I propose tech 3 ships :- Certification ships. (needs a better name)
A ship fitted with this tech 3 certification neuro net computer is able to utilise the skills of the pod pilot to improve the performance of the ship.
A player may select 1 or 2 certificates possibly at elite them and use them to alter the current ship bonuses of his or her vessel, for example a player my use the elite gunnery certificate to give a vessel that has no damage bonus a temporary role bonus of 5% per level a player may use the armor tanking certificate to temporarily gain a bonus to armor rep amount etc.
Whilst the certificates are in effect the normal role bonuses of the ship are neutralised or simply dont give them any to start with in the interests of game balance.
What you get is an extremely versertile ship and a reason to actually train some of those looooong skills. In effect kinda like having rigs you can switch round :)
Ps excuse my typos :)
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.10.16 03:57:00 -
[100]
This is a good idea :)
What about medals? (they are on sisi too :) )
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
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Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.10.16 06:40:00 -
[101]
OK. I guess. If you need your cyber-ego stroked regularly I guess this may have some use.
I share concerns that this may broadcast what you can and can't do to your enemies as well as your friends.
Plus, maybe it is just me, but this whole affair seems to pale into insignificance (or worse: wag the dog) when compared to the many disgraceful scandals CCP has perpetrated recently.....
Just saying......
Going back to my hole now.
*
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Cfiloruz Xilocient
Amarr Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 12:30:00 -
[102]
I LOVE IT
its really useful actually. i dont consider myself as a new player tho many would consider 6 month player new.
anyway.. back on topic... there are oodles of skills and such and quite honestly as a PvE player i know nothing of pvp... ok i know you shoot and ewar and stuff but what i actually need to be a PvP warmashine in a HAC?
I cant wait it hitting TQ... must go lurking around in SiSi then... :P Low skills and high standing IS a problem. |
Borini
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:22:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Gridwalker Players will train to the certificate recommendations, which will then become the de-facto way one trains skills. CCP is, in effect, telling players how they should train their skills, by introducing the certificate system. Deviation from that standard, while possible, will be looked at as wrong. It even has the potential to discourage creative ship fittings, because the certifications will steer people to what is considered "common".
-Grid
I think THIS is the biggest problem with certificates. Common ship setups and common skills will make the life of every pirate a lot easier. Find the weaknesses in the certificates and setup your ship to exploit it. Any player that started from 3 months before the certificates till the current time is easy prey.
To me this WoW in the most glorious way. Even though i see some uses for the systems it takes away the creativity of the player, and the will to find out what skills are best for his/her playstyle.
Greets Borini
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Encina Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:28:00 -
[104]
Just noticed one additional oddity within the certificate system that needs sorting:
Battleship Energy Turrets Elite currently requires the Cruiser - Elite versions of the beam and pulse turrets, not the Battleship versions.
Interesting times await... |
Lonak Silu
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:24:00 -
[105]
Will we have some military ranks insignia ? like captain, lieutnant, etc .. showing on our collars sometimes ?
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Sinsong
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:07:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Nice. Now just add "Train for this certificate" and you've perfected the system ;)
Been thinking the same. Just have that choose the lowest unmet skill, and train that. So I could work my way up, from only the ELITE Cert.
Another thing I'd love to see is an option to "Export" ALL unmatched skills (Max level needed for a cert) into a Text-Box for copying. Or, even better, export it to a file (similar to the Market Exports) for including into EVEMon. (It's a real pain, doing it manually ... I tried. :) )
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Amon Fyre
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:43:00 -
[107]
I like the idea of a certification system to prove in-game in a non-forgeable way what you can do without giving out an api key. After logging into the test server to check it out it seems fairly solid and a good way to plug holes in my training, or create them. Anyway it has me reviewing and changing my training plan.
It was good until I looked at the industry and harvesting certifications. Then I laughed. I'm tempted to ask if there are any miners/refiners on staff.
The standard common ore extractor requires scordite and Veldspar at 5. People actually train those to 5? There is no benefit to having them at 5. But the big problem with this standard cert is scrapmetal processing at 2. Perhaps that should be metallurgy 2 or 3 since scrapmetal processing requires having refining 5, refining efficiency 5, metallurgy 5, and science 4. All that for a standard cert?
Standard industrial harvesting cert might need to be looked at as well. It has very heavy requirements in addition to needing common ore extraction elite. Possibly common ore extraction standard instead?
Just my thoughts on it. There were a few other strange things such as getting the minmatar business cert that didn't seem to have any requirements but I'll check once I get over the industry certs.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:34:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 14/10/2008 13:00:49 The Vulture Command Ship recommends a missile launcher cert instead of a railguns cert, despite only having rail bonuses. Admittedly it is Ferox hull with the old 5/5 Turrets/Launchers choice, but it's not a missile boat.
Fixing this
Originally by: Zikka Surely this just means it is at the wrong point in the inheritance tree?
Basic gunnery lists skills useful for all turrets - which does not include controller bursts.
Projectile then doesn't include it either Laser and Hybrid add it in their tree at appropriate levels.
After all you don't _need_ controller bursts to fire either lasers or hybrid turrets (although I admit its damned useful!)
This is exactly the sort of solution I was looking for. Will change this.
Originally by: Janus Ovellian Edited by: Janus Ovellian on 14/10/2008 17:19:50 EWAR Operator Elite, has EWAR Operator Elite as a prerequisite. Should be EWAR Operator Standard obviously. :)
Edit: Also, the description for Frigate Advanced Artillery Turrets Standard is nonsense.
Fixing both of these
Originally by: Janus Ovellian Just noticed one additional oddity within the certificate system that needs sorting:
Battleship Energy Turrets Elite currently requires the Cruiser - Elite versions of the beam and pulse turrets, not the Battleship versions.
Fixing this too
Originally by: Borini I think THIS is the biggest problem with certificates. Common ship setups and common skills will make the life of every pirate a lot easier. Find the weaknesses in the certificates and setup your ship to exploit it. Any player that started from 3 months before the certificates till the current time is easy prey.
I fully understand this concern, but I think there's two things that mitigate it. One, most of the suggested sets of skills cover a HUGE range of fittings. For example, the entirety of Armor Tanking is basically covered by three skills - Mechanic, Hull Upgrades and Repair Systems. Recommending that someone flying an Amarr Battleship has those three skills trained doesn't impose or imply any preference between the vast majority of "sensible" fits for these ships. Two, people who do have the fitting expertise to know that there are for example sensible Abaddon setups that don't rely on armor tanking don't need the certificate system to tell them that. At the point where a player is capable of figuring out for themselves what to fit, they should also be smart enough to realize that recommendations are entirely optional. At the end of the day, a good setup is a good setup
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Weetabix Kedgeree
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:02:00 -
[109]
Originally by: NupetietVer Great, New players get Certificates, and they lose Ghost Training. They will roll over real fine with them knowing they are out of $$$ and time spent on skill training.
Why the hell would a new player require ghost training? They have no skills with training times long enough to use it... WTF is the point of using ghost training to learn hull upgrades 4, or afterburner 3? Battleship 5 I would grant you, but tbfh ghost training is only of any use when you start hitting 20 - 30 day or longer train times.
Now if could que up your training using the certificates that would be a hellaciously useful feature, especially for new characters that have an absolute ton of short trains required.
I think some of the certificates need looking at, multitasking 5 for some of the targeting set for example... no one trains multitasking 5 because its basically at a useless level. For most practical purposes multitasking 3 is as much as anyone will ever require. Also mixing the armour and shield skills in the defence catagories, only of any use if you are Minmatar as they are the only ones who use both. If you are Amarr or Gallente why do you have to train shield tanking skills just for that certificate, or the reverse being true for Caldari?
I would also like to see ship specific and/or user defined (maybe at a corp level) certificates. Basic Carrier Certificate detailing all the basic skills you need to fly and operate a frontline carrier for example, you could use the same 2 or 3 stage certification for most ship types (basic/Improved/Elite cruiser pilot for example), and tie in a lot of the support certificates. Either having those ship specific certificates in, or being able to create user defined certificates to do the same job would be highly useful.
The most useful feature of this though, would be the ability to que your training to the certificate. That would be useful to experienced and high SP characters, but it would be of immeasurable help to new players/characters with LOTS of short training times.
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.17 14:37:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Weetabix Kedgeree Good stuff
I totally agree with your post.
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Red lensman
Gallente BlackSky inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:42:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Red lensman on 17/10/2008 23:45:50 Hi with the ice specialist cert.(basic) - industrial harvester cert.(basic) ---common ore extractor (Stanadard) which are minerals not ice ---resource harvester (elite) this one need's mining upgrades lv5 ? for a basic skill ?
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Fridge Chesthair
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Posted - 2008.10.18 05:56:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Fridge Chesthair on 18/10/2008 05:58:11 So I'm a newer player to EVE. I've played on and off for the last two years. Currently I've been playing for the last month or so, so I'm attempting to dumb down my knowledge of the game to emulate a new player.
I've noticed a few things.
--The name "Certificates" sounds like requirements for quests or higher end content. It could be easily overlooked by someone new to the game. Certificates only indicates that they validate some player status. Something more like "Roles" would reinforce the content of the certificates.
--There is also a potential problem with the nomenclature of the certificates. They appear to be divided between two groups.
Under the Business and Industry tab, the certificate names are references to specific occupations. A "business mogul" is a position to which a player can relate. It would be very attractive to a new player to see "Elite Business Tycoon" as an attainable label.
The nomenclature of a majority of the certificates are based around a specific skill set. "Combat Drone Control" provides a great indication of what skills it involves, but new players don't understand the skills to begin with. What benefit do the skills within "Combat Drone Control" bestow? Do they make a character more effective using drones? or are they simply a requirement to use drones?
Player's like to be told that they are skillful. Who wouldn't want to be an "Elite Battlecruiser Captain" ?? It sounds more attractive than possessing the achievement of "Elite Battlecruiser Operation." Players often prefer to achieve titles for their characters rather than sets of skills.
--My final point involves the placement of tier 2 certificates within the same menus as tier 1 certificates. For example:: Basic Business Tycoon requires Elite Business Mogul. It also requires training one skill to level five, one to four, one to three, and two to level two. It doesn't make sense that it should be classified under the Basic Business and Industry tab.
Furthermore, the use of four submenus for each of the four certificate levels (Basic, Standard, Improved, and Elite) seems redundant. It might be easier to read if the the certificates were classified first by tier (Frigate certificates together, cruiser certificates together, etc.) then by type (hybrid turrets, projectile, missiles, etc.) then finally by skill level.
PS. I've got a lot more to write, but I have to sleep. I know the development team wants to improve the UI tremendously, and I would hope they can start on a positive note by nailing a certificate system which is both highly informative and extremely accessible.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:44:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 18/10/2008 10:48:34 So, this question might have been asked a gazillion times, but is it possible to set skill training from the certificate screen ?
Good work anyway.
-edit- It's not a question about queuing skills, it's all about setting one skill training from this screen... Fetchez la vache !
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:50:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Leto Corleone Kewl feature !
I'm a feature now :)
EVE Online, the only MMO featuring Kweel Nakashyn \o/ Fetchez la vache !
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:53:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel A suggestion:
Instead of just two options ("make them public" and "keep them private"), give us 4 options: private, corpmates can view, alliance can view, and public.
We need this ! Fetchez la vache !
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.18 12:38:00 -
[116]
To be honest, certs seem great for newer people, but then boil down to nonsense at higher ranks.
For example - because so many of the "Elite" certs are built on top of a variety of different certs, that one missed skill takes out an entire chain. You might say "thats the point", but frequently utter nonsense skills are included ".e.g EW drone interfacing 5", a rank 5 skill for 3km of drone range, that no drone master except the truly mental would bother training.
The end result is that those with truly high-end skills get left with a cert sheet looking "standard, basic, standard, standard" due to the non-existance of improved certs in many areas, which if certs were to be used for say, corp recruitment, would look pretty rubbish. Other examples like arty requiring controlled bursts or lasers requiring Trajectory analysis 5 just compound this.
At high-ends, the cert system as it is doesn't seem to result in good advice or true representation, whereas it does for younger players. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.18 14:19:00 -
[117]
Sorry to be a bit unspecific, but the "passive shield hardener" certificate are missing the skill for bonus to thermal resistance as a requirement at the higher certificate levels. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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electric monk
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:05:00 -
[118]
Love it! This is just what I needed. I'm a new player with around 10mill skill points. After training all the skills I thought I needed I felt stuck finding new skills to train. After looking at the certificates, I found a whole new direction in training. I can only echo what others said about having a super long wait time to get my certs and one easy button to train all the skills needed to the next level of cert, but as a first step I think this is a great move!
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Jack Wilder
Germany's Last Geeks
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:09:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Jack Wilder on 20/10/2008 14:15:41 I had a look at missile bs and I think the prereqs are somewhat weird. For instance: For Battleship Launcher Control you need both, CMs and torps. I usallay fit CMs OR torps (after the torp chance), but not both. Furthermore, it say's that this cert is useful for Stealth Bombers. Ever fittet torps on SBs? Meh. This get's even more weird for the CM specialization: For Battleship Advanced Cruise Launchers, you need this Battleship Launcher Control Cert, along with Cruise Missle Spec. So, in the end, certs tell you, you need the torpedo skill lvl 4 for Advanced Cruise Launchers? This can't be right. What I generally miss in certs is an OR-connection. The Battleship Launcher Control Standard cert could then be something like: (Torpedos 4 OR Cruise Missiles 4) AND Missle Control Standard AND Battleship Launcher Control Basic. This would need some redesign of course, because you have to reconcider all certs. Certs with an OR in it no longer say you have all skills mentioned in it. For Advanced Cruise Lauchners, this wouldn't be a problem, because you still need Cruise Missile Skill in order to train Cruise Missile Spec, so you couldn't get the cert if you only trained torps for the Battleship Launcher Control cert. But I'm quite sure there are certs, where this could be a problem.
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JiJiCle
Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:43:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel A suggestion:
Instead of just two options ("make them public" and "keep them private"), give us 4 options: private, corpmates can view, alliance can view, and public.
These certificates are going to replace the whole "I need to see your API" prerequisite for joining certain corps, and believe me, we will want our CEO's to see what we have, while at the same time preventing our enemies from seeing our skill weaknesses.
Anyway, EVEMON is still way better than this stuff, but I suppose it's a nice feature that we'll use, once you add it in for us.
/support public/private only really narrow down the interest of certificates replacing the API requests from corp recruiters should be one of certificates' goals.
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