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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:14:00 -
[3241]
Originally by: OneSock As a casual player I pay my 2month GTC same as any other player. However due to work and RL stuff I may only get what 5-6 game hours a week out of my subscription. Others may get 10-12 hours a week or more. I'm effectively paying double per hour actually played, subsidizing others who are on-line while I cannot be. Do you really think that's fair to me ?
Yes. It is completely fair. EVE is not charged per hour online, it is charge for the OPTION to be online for 1/2/3/6/12 months at a time. Whether you CHOOSE to be online is up to you!
YOU are the one who CHOOSE to only be online 5-6 hours per week, so YOU have obviously decided that this is fair (otherwise you wouldn't pay).
Originally by: OneSock Ghost training goes some way to make up for that. If CCP don't want casual players like me then let them say so. There's other games out there for me to play.
So because you CHOOSE not to use your subscription, CCP should give you free stuff? I'd like you to try to make that argument with an auto rental company.... "Well, I've not used the car I leased from you as much as I could, so I think you should give me some free gas!"
And no, if you like spaceship MMO's there AREN'T any other MMO games for you to play
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Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:15:00 -
[3242]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon
More like "OWNED Alliance".
That's alot coming from a guy that is in a corp called "eight year old girls", mister "i am a goon, phear me..." |
Zacheria Malfor
Gallente Pernicious Creed
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:21:00 -
[3243]
Edited by: Zacheria Malfor on 15/10/2008 09:38:57 CCP's stance is evident through the lack of responses in order to try reconcile the player base and their tactics of making quick alterations to various pieces of information dotted around the Eve-O website in regards to ghost training being a feature. Add onto this the convenient "disappearance" of this thread in the information portal, it appears their stance is firm.
I have been playing Eve for over 5 years and have taken a few breaks in my time, in all honesty I have only utilised ghost training over the past year due to real life commitments which have affected the amount of play time I have. One thing that kept me coming back was that I knew my skill was done, however, in saying this I have come back before hand when skills haven't been training during my inactivity.
An honest answer from CCP in regards to their feelings on why this needs to be done is obviously too much to ask. I have to agree with the statement that since all the old devs and community support disappeared the game has taken a turn for the worse.
The number one thing though which disgusts me in regards to this change is the attitude CCP have taken. The way it has been done has been is the subject of countless posts here so there is little point reiterating this.
In the unlikely event a member of CCP is reading this who actually cares about the community, stop treating us like morons, be honest with us... do the rational thing... TALK TO US. Don't treat us like children playing in your sand pit, treat us like adults paying for a product and service which you provide.
I would ask for this change to be delayed and subjected to review, but again this is probably too much to ask. I will hang around in Eve for a while longer, it is still one of the best MMO's on the market but my faith in the development team, the customer support team and CCP as a company has all but vanished.
To those who will no doubt claim this is an emo whine or "can I have your stuff", grow up. If you cannot see there is something wrong in the approach CCP has taken in regards to this change then maybe you need to open your eyes.
Edit - Typo
/Zacheria Malfor |
Rhiannon Le'Tent
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:21:00 -
[3244]
Edited by: Rhiannon Le''Tent on 15/10/2008 09:39:32 Edited by: Rhiannon Le''Tent on 15/10/2008 09:26:45 CCP should change their name name to CCCP (USSR) for their underhanded "Stalin" like tactics.
1) "we're fixing a bug" even though it's sold as a feature in the player guide. We are not idiots CCP we all know it's just a money grab. 2) The feature mentioned above no longer appears in the player guide hmm there's a surprise. 3) This forum for some "inexplicable" reason has lost it's main link on the information portal page, so if you didn't already have it in you browser history bad luck you can't view or post regarding it.. again why are we not surprised. 4) Last year's "boost patch" complete with hidden nerfs
For speaking against the establishment I expect the secret police to arrive momentarily.
Personally I don't give a rats about the change, have never ghost trained, I have 2 fully paid up accounts a year in advance. Well until next march anyway.
Why not just tell the "Truth" behind the change instead of trying to get us believe the poorly though up crap that you have fed us in way of an explanation. I know six year olds that could come with a more believable lie than that.
Marketing departments the world over do this all the time, come up with a "way to make more money," then they go ahead and announce it, without first consulting with anyone in in the company that has common sense and asking "will this work?" Obviously your marketing department is just as inept as the one at the company I work for. Our marketing department came up with a way to flush 200k down the toilet, I think if this change is implemented and you only loose 200k of revenue you should consider yourselves lucky. You need to fire your marketing dept and hire someone with common sense that actually plays & pays for the game. eg. Any of the commentators from the EVE PvP tournaments could do a far better job I'm sure, or at least employ them as a sounding board with veto power over the dumb asses that come up with these great ideas.
edited to fix spelling
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Charis D'Asgar
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:22:00 -
[3245]
I wonĘt talk about fairness and so on... I'm upset :(
If CCP really cares about their customers - than let them to learn skills in "half-inactive" state for less payment, without possibility to go online and play. It would be like mobile operators keep you phone number for you for less pay without letting use it for calls. Any time, player see, that he couldn't play for a long time - he switches his account to that state and continues learning skills without playing... It may be needs restrictions like - not more often then once per month and not longer than a month or so... Should be appropriate decision.
PS. Sorry, my English is not so good. |
Jane Rambo
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:29:00 -
[3246]
I would like to take this time to formally invite CCP Wrangler and t0rfifrans to join GoonFleet!
These pubbies are all drowning in salty tears shed from their own eyes! |
Ayrion Centare
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:32:00 -
[3247]
Edited by: Ayrion Centare on 15/10/2008 09:39:44
Originally by: Mallikanth CCP asking people to pay to use their services? How outrageous
The outrage is how CCP managed this "bug."
Their explanation is that ghost training was the result of a bug all along and for years, for whatever technical reason, they couldn't fix it.
This bug was then documented in their player manual as a feature for people with RL issues and for those that needed a break from Eve.
They turned an unintended bug into a free service for those who purchased a subscription to Eve without telling subscribers it's actually a bug all along which caused the unintended free service and it will no longer exist once the bug is resolved.
For those of us who purchased a subscription to Eve with this feature in mind as a great way to balance life and a MMO without needlessly wasting money on accounts sitting idle, this is an important selling point.
Now, CCP's excuse claims the bug being documented in the new player manual as a feature was due to poor communication and at this I am especially outraged about...
They are saying that, for all this time, they have been actively trying to resolve the bug and, for all this time, they have documented the bug as a feature, all without anyone in the company putting the two together and figuring out the impact this will have once the bug gets resolved?
Ghost training isn't a little feature hidden away somewhere, it is an incredibly unique and distinctive feature among the MMO community. For anyone who did some research about EVE before purchasing the time-based skill training feature and the ghost training feature literally set EVE apart from everyone else.
And now CCP is saying it was a bug all along and they made a mistake by documenting it, which persisted in their documentation for years and became well known as a unique and distinctive feature, and now they wish to charge for it so all that was said and done in the past should now be forgotten and no compromise will be made for their mistake which had persisted so long.
This is the outrage for me.
CCP has the right to change and charge for whatever they want when it comes to Eve, I don't disagree with that, but the way in which they have conducted themselves with this particular change has been dishonest and deceptive.
EDiTS: Typos |
Max Khaos
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:32:00 -
[3248]
If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ... |
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:39:00 -
[3249]
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ...
Playin' ain't gettin' sp, if you think it is you really don't get eve. |
Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:42:00 -
[3250]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: OneSock As a casual player I pay my 2month GTC same as any other player. However due to work and RL stuff I may only get what 5-6 game hours a week out of my subscription. Others may get 10-12 hours a week or more. I'm effectively paying double per hour actually played, subsidizing others who are on-line while I cannot be. Do you really think that's fair to me ?
Yes. It is completely fair. EVE is not charged per hour online, it is charge for the OPTION to be online for 1/2/3/6/12 months at a time. Whether you CHOOSE to be online is up to you!
YOU are the one who CHOOSE to only be online 5-6 hours per week, so YOU have obviously decided that this is fair (otherwise you wouldn't pay).
Originally by: OneSock Ghost training goes some way to make up for that. If CCP don't want casual players like me then let them say so. There's other games out there for me to play.
So because you CHOOSE not to use your subscription, CCP should give you free stuff? I'd like you to try to make that argument with an auto rental company.... "Well, I've not used the car I leased from you as much as I could, so I think you should give me some free gas!"
And no, if you like spaceship MMO's there AREN'T any other MMO games for you to play
Are you an CCP alt ? |
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:43:00 -
[3251]
Originally by: Ayrion Centare Edited by: Ayrion Centare on 15/10/2008 09:39:44
Originally by: Mallikanth CCP asking people to pay to use their services? How outrageous
The outrage is how CCP managed this "bug."
Their explanation is that ghost training was the result of a bug all along and for years, for whatever technical reason, they couldn't fix it.
This bug was then documented in their player manual as a feature for people with RL issues and for those that needed a break from Eve.
They turned an unintended bug into a free service for those who purchased a subscription to Eve without telling subscribers it's actually a bug all along which caused the unintended free service and it will no longer exist once the bug is resolved.
For those of us who purchased a subscription to Eve with this feature in mind as a great way to balance life and a MMO without needlessly wasting money on accounts sitting idle, this is an important selling point.
Now, CCP's excuse claims the bug being documented in the new player manual as a feature was due to poor communication and at this I am especially outraged about...
They are saying that, for all this time, they have been actively trying to resolve the bug and, for all this time, they have documented the bug as a feature, all without anyone in the company putting the two together and figuring out the impact this will have once the bug gets resolved?
Ghost training isn't a little feature hidden away somewhere, it is an incredibly unique and distinctive feature among the MMO community. For anyone who did some research about EVE before purchasing the time-based skill training feature and the ghost training feature literally set EVE apart from everyone else.
And now CCP is saying it was a bug all along and they made a mistake by documenting it, which persisted in their documentation for years and became well known as a unique and distinctive feature, and now they wish to charge for it so all that was said and done in the past should now be forgotten and no compromise will be made for their mistake which had persisted so long.
This is the outrage for me.
CCP has the right to change and charge for whatever they want when it comes to Eve, I don't disagree with that, but the way in which they have conducted themselves with this particular change has been dishonest and deceptive.
EDiTS: Typos
This and 10000x This |
Bukkaboo
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:44:00 -
[3252]
CCP made a game, E-I-E-I-O. And on that game they made a nerf, E-I-E-I-O. With a failure here and a failure there Here a whine whine, there a whine whine, everywhere a whine whine CCP had a game, E-I-E-I-O... |
OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:44:00 -
[3253]
Originally by: Kerfira
So because you CHOOSE not to use your subscription, CCP should give you free stuff? I'd like you to try to make that argument with an auto rental company.... "Well, I've not used the car I leased from you as much as I could, so I think you should give me some free gas!"
And no, if you like spaceship MMO's there AREN'T any other MMO games for you to play
It's not so much a choice as simply not having the time. And yes I may choose to ditch Eve with this change as it's simply not worth the sub anymore. There are other things besides spaceships ;)
But to use the auto rental example is completely wrong. You pay a fixed fee because while that resource (the car) is with you, it cannot be given to anyone else to generate revenue.
With Eve, no resource is being drained while a player is off-line. CCP lose nothing.
As another example (a better one). You can get a DVD rental deal where you pay a sub for unlimited rentals. If your a heavy user this works out well. If your not then it's not great value. For this reason a lot of DVD rental companies provide a credit system where you pay a low fixed fee per rental. Maybe CCP should give it some thought. |
Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:45:00 -
[3254]
Originally by: Charis D'Asgar I wonĘt talk about fairness and so on... I'm upset :(
If CCP really cares about their customers - than let them to learn skills in "half-inactive" state for less payment, without possibility to go online and play. It would be like mobile operators keep you phone number for you for less pay without letting use it for calls. Any time, player see, that he couldn't play for a long time - he switches his account to that state and continues learning skills without playing... It may be needs restrictions like - not more often then once per month and not longer than a month or so... Should be appropriate decision.
PS. Sorry, my English is not so good.
no prob i understand you
But CCP not even cares to give us a standing about this "case" this would be a way |
Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:46:00 -
[3255]
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather
I shut down 8 everquest accounts, with most of the 6-7 characters on each of the accounts time geared, after one too many slaps in the face by sony. People who invest time and money in a game DO throw it all away when they get disrespected enough by the company who's wages they help pay.
wow.. Kudos.. All at the same time or in the course of years?.. If you used 8 EQ2 Accounts at the same time... Can I have your stuff when you leave rl? (c; |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:48:00 -
[3256]
Any chance CCP could post how many account were disabled from training?
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:48:00 -
[3257]
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ...
CCP alt too? |
Malaan Tabfassh
The Flowing Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:49:00 -
[3258]
No good.
I could have written it a bit more detailed, but chances are high someone did it already on the last 107 pages for me. |
Damned Force
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:50:00 -
[3259]
Edited by: Damned Force on 15/10/2008 09:50:28
Originally by: Leica Stroganow
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ...
CCP alt too?
Not sure. maybe just an a.s.s.h.o.l.e.
or both |
Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:51:00 -
[3260]
Originally by: Azuraito Any chance CCP could post how many account were disabled from training?
I¦ve reportet your post
As "interesting" |
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Patric Riegns
Minmatar Lazy Twats Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:51:00 -
[3261]
Open letter to CCP
I have posted exactly once on the forum in my time in the game and that was about 50 pages ago in this topic. I used the words real or imagined in reference to lying and contempt. Thank you for clearing that up and leaving the one option.
Your actions in the events leading up to and including the continued absence of this thread after 24hrs of customer dissatisfaction are sickening.
Lets start with the removal of 30 day GTC move onto the power of two promotion and lastly the removal of ghost training. Now there are two possible scenarios there. That you are again demonstrating levels of incompetence breathtaking in there scope or you are happy to obtain money be deception.
The fact that the level of disgust generated by your actions is not reflected correctly on the Eve Information Portal can no longer be considered accidental. This is now a deliberate attempt to bury this. Explain how a company delivering a high tech product cannot solve a forum problem in 16 hours and counting.
I and many others unaffected by the ghost training are watching this and evaluating whether we actually want to do business with a company like yours any longer. Currently the answer is no.
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Faekurias
Black Legion Command
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:51:00 -
[3262]
Edited by: Faekurias on 15/10/2008 09:55:45
Originally by: Rhiannon Le'Tent You need to fire your marketing dept and hire someone with common sense that actually plays & pays for the game. eg. Any of the commentators from the EVE PvP tournaments could do a far better job I'm sure, or at least employ them as a sounding board with veto power over the dumb asses that come up with these great ideas.
QFT
Edit: also, about ghost-training in general: Don't really care about this change, don't think I've ever deliberately used it. Although I once paid for several months without the ability to log in and change skill. So paid for those months with no skill in training. |
Alexi Borg
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:53:00 -
[3263]
How many people are as ****ed off as I am about the no ghost training patch? Just as an economic crisis hits the world, these guys have to pull a punch in the balls and do that to screw us out of a few extra bucks. Put it this way, a guy's subscription is running out and he's short on cash, well EVE was so damn cool because even if he didn't have cash, he had a little time to get some without wasting training time. The way I see it, if your not playing the game, you shouldn't have to pay $15 to let a little skill training clock run. Hell, it's why my friend was about to play EVE online, because he wasn't paying $15 just to train long skills! Now he tells me he'll never play. Why did you have to do this? Yes, I understand that people who play the game every month have to pay $15 for the skill training, but they are PLAYING THE GAME!!! People who take time off to skill train are NOT PLAYING THE GAME!!! You pay $15 TO PLAY THE GAME!!! I hope the company reconsiders their decision, because I doubt I will find it worth wile to continue playing the game when I'm short on cast, and can feel like I didn't waste time when I do get some money. I would love to hear arguments from other people on why they think I'm wrong, or hear people who support my thoughts. |
dorannl
Gallente Mystery Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:54:00 -
[3264]
Originally by: Patric Riegns Open letter to CCP
The fact that the level of disgust generated by your actions is not reflected correctly on the Eve Information Portal can no longer be considered accidental. This is now a deliberate attempt to bury this. Explain how a company delivering a high tech product cannot solve a forum problem in 16 hours and counting.
its really strange that a internet company cant fix there own forum |
Charlene Choi
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:54:00 -
[3265]
I wonder whois in charge of the business strategy and development for CCP, but ****ing off existing customers isnt so smart. the cost of getting new customers is twice as high for keeping the existing ones. so go figure.
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Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:55:00 -
[3266]
Originally by: Ayrion Centare CCP has the right to change and charge for whatever they want when it comes to Eve, I don't disagree with that, but the way in which they have conducted themselves with this particular change has been dishonest and deceptive.
This i have to agree with, even though i welcome this change, CCP are a dishonest bunch!
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:56:00 -
[3267]
Originally by: Alexi Borg How many people are as ****ed off as I am about the no ghost training patch? Just as an economic crisis hits the world, these guys have to pull a punch in the balls and do that to screw us out of a few extra bucks. Put it this way, a guy's subscription is running out and he's short on cash, well EVE was so damn cool because even if he didn't have cash, he had a little time to get some without wasting training time. The way I see it, if your not playing the game, you shouldn't have to pay $15 to let a little skill training clock run. Hell, it's why my friend was about to play EVE online, because he wasn't paying $15 just to train long skills! Now he tells me he'll never play. Why did you have to do this? Yes, I understand that people who play the game every month have to pay $15 for the skill training, but they are PLAYING THE GAME!!! People who take time off to skill train are NOT PLAYING THE GAME!!! You pay $15 TO PLAY THE GAME!!! I hope the company reconsiders their decision, because I doubt I will find it worth wile to continue playing the game when I'm short on cast, and can feel like I didn't waste time when I do get some money. I would love to hear arguments from other people on why they think I'm wrong, or hear people who support my thoughts.
Tripple siggned;hugged,.....wathever my english isn¦t so good to clear the point like this guy!!! THIS GUY HITS MY HEART, THIS IS WHAT THEY DO!!!! |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.15 09:58:00 -
[3268]
Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled? |
Naema Kali
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:59:00 -
[3269]
Hmm, I wonder what is better:
A) A player with 10 (or 20 or 50) accounts that reactivates them from time to time and uses ghost skilling while the accounts are inactive (reactivation = payment),
or
B) lots of players cancelling a lot of their alt accounts because they can no longer do ghost skilling?
From my point of view, ghost skilling was one of THE big and great features of Eve although personally I haven't used it very much. CCP won't earn more money by disabling this feature. I think exactly the opposite will happen: much less alt accounts that won't ever be reactivated again ( = no more payments for those accounts). |
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.15 10:02:00 -
[3270]
To all of those who say CCP did this just to make more money, it is true...
HOWEVER, look at companies like Blizzard, who milk the shit out of their customers (and i read some news that they want to implement a fee for changing the appearance of your character!!!!), that's just like CCP charging us money for refitting our ships...
Or another fine example is EA games, that REALLY MILK THE CRAP out of it's customers for every piece of shit expansion they make...
I bought Spore and now i found out EA wants to launch a pack with construction parts that costs TWENTY BUCKS!!!
Plus, the DRM on Spore does not allow you to install the game more than 3 times, so that means that if you have problems with ur PC, and format it and reinstall the game (that cost 50 bucks) more than 3 times, you LOSE IT AND HAVE TO BUY IT AGAIN!!!
Oh, and can you imagine Blizzard giving free WoW expansions??? HAH!
Bottom line, you cheapskate bastards, is that CCP offers us WAY MORE for our money than ANY other production company does...
So all of you shut the hell up and give CCP a break...
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