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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Grimnir
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:14:00 -
[3541]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Last time I checked "playing" required me actually logging in?
The price of the subscription includes the ability to log in and play AND the ability to skill up one character. So far people have had the option of skilling up without playing, now they need to pay the full price of skilling AND playing even if they don't want to do the latter. It seems reasonable and fair to have the option of a discount if you only intend to use a service partially, especially in the case where no special support is required on the part of the service provider.
Agreed, but I think your in the minority in this thread, you're actually thinking it through. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:14:00 -
[3542]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated. |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:16:00 -
[3543]
wow, just chiming in on the 117th page....good job CCP. |
Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:16:00 -
[3544]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 15/10/2008 15:16:36 Have they implemented it yet? Can't see any news. |
Traidor Disloyal
Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:17:00 -
[3545]
Originally by: Lag The issue is not people playing the game for free. (You can't). It's having an incentive to come back to Eve after taking a break for whatever reason.
Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you. |
Vietone
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:18:00 -
[3546]
Originally by: Silvia t'Nias
Originally by: Korizan In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic [:lol:
Well it's something CCP thaught us to do.
"Look, you can skill even when account is inactive."
"Oh cool, I'll try that."
"Hey now, you're using that feature! We can't have that. It's getting removed."
"wat?"
Not even, the fact that its listed in one place thats not obvious is hardly something they taught you to do.
If you go and cancel your subscription, did it say your skills will continue to train? NO If you browsed the forums did people talk about it regularly? NO Did CCP advertise it as a feature when they put ads on websites? NO Did they include it in any of their Skill Training tutorials? NO
This thread alone is bigger than all previous ghost training threads combined as far as the forum database goes. Therefore, its a fact that a minority of people even knew about it. Will they lose some subscribers? Probably, but not much.
AS I said before, its unfair to subscribers that people who dont pay still skill train. In the end, the only solution is to enable ghost training but at a significantly reduced rate. 10% training rate. Make skills take 10x longer to train while accounts are not subscribed. Thats the only fair solution, no more than 10%. That way, if people decide to leave an account inactive, maybe the people who do subscribe will have a chance of gaining on SP. |
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:18:00 -
[3547]
Edited by: ATARI BABY on 15/10/2008 15:18:51
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated.
well said bro. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:20:00 -
[3548]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan All OF THEM, in other MMO's you have to be out in your one character that is currently logged on and actively killing things
How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan Doesn't matter nobody will ever see this anyways, and has nothing to do with it
How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Originally by: Korizan So if you are playing the game what is the difference if it takes you 10 minutes or 3 months for a skill level Oh and try leveling AA in EVERQUEST the original if you want to talk about hard leveling and time invested.
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
You want to play the game for nothing. No matter how you rationalize it.
you my friend are a joke.
Look at what he said. You don't "play" the game for free when you use ghost training. Am I earning money? no. ( Although some are taking advantage of this)
am I mining? Causing lag(the database issue is bullshit, and if you arent a DBA or have experience with why that excuse is BS then shut your pie-hole), am I fighting? Buying things? no.
think about it real hard, I know its hard.. but think for a minute. I pay 15 a month for warhammer. Sure I can't actively level both at one time, thats correct, but what I can do is get to the "end game" pvp within a month on multiple characters, in eve its going to take you at least a year after you learn training, ship skills just to be semi viable in a smaller ship.
You want to get two toons to a decent isk making level? Sorry you gotta pay 34 a month! 3? Another 17! one more? Thats right!!! ANOTHER 17! So SUUUUURRRREEEE you can't level 2 toons at once on the same account in other mmo's, but the TIME INVESTED is WAY different for the price. |
Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:22:00 -
[3549]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 15:23:31
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
We appreciated the incentive we had to return.
I had an auto-renewing account which I switched to following the initial time code fiasco. Since this announcement, I've canceled. In two months my skills with cease training and I, like many others, will be gone.
That includes my alt because, frankly, I'm tired of dealing with a company who has a history of being dishonest with the community. I'm not even certain that back-peddling on this decision will be enough anymore. I'm waiting on Jumpgate: Evolution to hopefully accept me into the beta.
Eve was the first of its kind. It won't be the last. Hopefully the next company won't try to win our compassion over with lines "We made the game so we could all enjoy it so please don't unsubscribe!". Here's a plan for CCP: Why don't you take a last look into your immense aquarium and justify those expenses to your shareholders when your balance sheet takes a bite out of your face? |
Parasite S
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:23:00 -
[3550]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan All OF THEM, in other MMO's you have to be out in your one character that is currently logged on and actively killing things
How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan Doesn't matter nobody will ever see this anyways, and has nothing to do with it
How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Originally by: Korizan So if you are playing the game what is the difference if it takes you 10 minutes or 3 months for a skill level Oh and try leveling AA in EVERQUEST the original if you want to talk about hard leveling and time invested.
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
You want to play the game for nothing. No matter how you rationalize it.
1. maybe but unlike eve those dont have drawbacks since you can invest more time in the char you didnt used for a while. in eve you can continuesly only train 1 which means drawback for any other char on the same account you cant come up for with more time investment.
2. forword for 3...
3. You forget that this is a SET value. you can only modify it a lil with learning skills / implants not more. therefore the player influence on this is heavy limited. this DONT works for other mmorpgs since that is just up to you. here we see the edges of the so called sandbox.
and no we dont want to play the game for nothing but EvE gave the REALLY UNIQUE ability to advance your char even when you just dont feel like playing it. You could with a clean thought stay back for a while enjoy something else etc not worrying about anything. Not to mention that troubless with payment wont cause you massively fallback since your skill trained and you might couldnt play but didnt worry a sec about lost time *unlike by unadvertised extended downtimes....* |
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Fenrill Nerkata
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:25:00 -
[3551]
And what about restrict ghost training to 1 month a year ? |
Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:26:00 -
[3552]
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
...
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
Companies that don't please there customers... FAIL. I hope you understand that. It's how business works. If you don't have pleased/satisfied customers, you no longer have those customers. |
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:29:00 -
[3553]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated.
Just because there is a history of gripes; they are not all related and should be judged on their invidivual 'merits'. Yeah, CCP haven't done a great job of announcing this change but its got nothing to do with the Bobgate scandals.
But I see it now, ad hominem. CCP has done bad things, so this must be a bad thing
Look, to use an analogy, if you stopped paying for your lvl68 warrior in wow for a month, would you expect to come back and find that you could use a epic flying mount ? No, plain and simple. And it wouldn't be fair to anyone who spent the time grinding, if you could.
It's the same thing here in Eve, but some of you are so caught up in this "CCP did some bad things so they can never be able to do a good thing" that you're being unreasonable about something that makes perfect sense.
|
10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:29:00 -
[3554]
This is truly Epic to say the least for a game to tell its player base Fu** yourself, we win by default its our game. 117 pages and here is a news flash THEY ARE NOT LISTENING. |
Occso
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:29:00 -
[3555]
Make your statement at: vote |
Kev Hunter
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:30:00 -
[3556]
Originally by: Yeknom Nam
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
...
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
Companies that don't please there customers... FAIL. I hope you understand that. It's how business works. If you don't have pleased/satisfied customers, you no longer have those customers.
The only time when this doesn't fail if it's the regional US Telco/High Speed ISP where the customer doesn't have a choice when they shaft their customers with less features and increased prices.
Unfortunately for CCP, EVE isn't the only MMORPG choice out there, so to further Yeknom Nam's point, EVE would be shooting itself in the foot by upsetting customers by removing features.
I might be considering Star Trek Online...
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LockeLamora
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:30:00 -
[3557]
Ive just read the last 117 pages, and i concurr. Its a sheet of bull. |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:32:00 -
[3558]
For all the Moron jumping on the play for free wagon....
Why haven't you got multiple 100+ page threads about how unfair it is for people to gain
1) RP while unsubscribed - These can be farmed in vast quantities by unsubscribed accounts and is having a detrimental effect on the Datacore/Invention market
2) My buy/sell order can last for 90 Days unsubscribed. Hell i could get a free trial set up 50+ orders and wait 90 days for them to expire/fill before giving a cent of money to CCP. With 50 free orders any Trader/industrial could make billions therefore it is worth the 400-500 mil for 1 GTC to activate it and collect the fruit of you unsubscribed labour.
3) you can get 30 days research across 11 lines for free if you set jobs up b4 your sub ends.
That 3 Game breaking/unbalancing things that are causing much bigger effect on the industry/market of Eve than Dark Training ever has or will.
Character farmer who are the ones I assume CCP are pointing to when they are talking about abusing the system, but this actually helps the new player experiance- 2 months of learning or a couple of GTC for ISK. And makes ccp a nice ú20 or so for the transfer. |
Passing Time
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:33:00 -
[3559]
I did one post in original (outrage) thread, I'll do one more here. Few things I want to say. 1. Is ghost training free? NO, you have to pay to (be able to) start training, and you have to pay to have use from ghost trained skill. Ghost training allows for a somewhat cheaper advancement of skill points, as you can pay for 4 months and adance your skill points by 4 months plus overtime of ghost trained skill. Ghost training allows bored, tired or busy player to get out of game and also be done with training of too long skill. In return the server is freed of input of hybernating player and thus lag is reduced. It really was a win-win situation. 2. Balance disturbed, unfair to players who work on their characters? Thats silly, since a)everyone could use that feature/bug, and b)those who play the game were obviously able to advance their characters by much more then just skill points. What I think is really unfair to those who "actively put their time and energy into working on their characters" is that someone can buy a developed character. Thus I feel that this change is unfairly hurting the balance in favour of a)veteran players, who used ghost training for years, and b)rich (and bad) players, who have no need for ghost training as they can pay for a fully developed character. 3. I'm new to Eve, but since i started using trial, I wasted no time to advance the skill points of my character. I used ghost training twice, and I payed twice. My account expires in a month and I was planning to ghost train a long skill, and return when it finishes. With no ghost training, after it expires, I'm going to return much later then I would have, if I return at all. This change has greatly reduced long term playability of this game for any new player who wishes to build his character from start. If you wanted to make money like Blizzard, you should have learned that you never compromise the quality of your product - the game. I'm very disappointed. I hope you lose a lot of money because of this fast and return ghost training. But, no hard feelings, it's not the end of the world, do as you wish and if I don't like it, I'll just go play something else. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:35:00 -
[3560]
Originally by: Occso Make your statement at: vote
Dont let ccp trick you into going to another thread in order to stop this one. Vote here... They locked the others or deleted them and here they go again trying to pull us away from this one. |
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Sonam Gyatso
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:35:00 -
[3561]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
How many MMO are better than EVE? Answer is subjective but if it's > 0 (in the long run at least) then take your pick.
This alt flood was really getting on my (rp) nerves, not to mention the cyno/xxx-alt breeding business. You want to play in 0.0, play as intended (i.e. multiplayer). Be able to fund what you fly and then take your epeen out. Can't do that? Pay for a second account. Want to control a 5-man gang by yourself? Play Baldur's gate and with the time left discover there's a world out there.
On a side note, it's obvious this is a ghost fix for lag |
Kev Hunter
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:36:00 -
[3562]
Originally by: Grimnir
Just because there is a history of gripes; they are not all related and should be judged on their invidivual 'merits'. Yeah, CCP haven't done a great job of announcing this change but its got nothing to do with the Bobgate scandals.
But I see it now, ad hominem. CCP has done bad things, so this must be a bad thing
It's called CCP's track record of doing bad and unfair things to it's playerbase. That's the point he was stressing. This is just another brick in the wall.
Originally by: Grimnir
Look, to use an analogy, if you stopped paying for your lvl68 warrior in wow for a month, would you expect to come back and find that you could use a epic flying mount ? No, plain and simple. And it wouldn't be fair to anyone who spent the time grinding, if you could.
The game you're talking about is WoW. WoW doesn't have time based training. You actively play it. Use an example of an MMO where they used time based training instead of constant use based. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.
Originally by: Grimnir
It's the same thing here in Eve, but some of you are so caught up in this "CCP did some bad things so they can never be able to do a good thing" that you're being unreasonable about something that makes perfect sense.
See my previous replies to your quotes. It is not the same. It's just another bad decision on CCP's part. And this one just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. He's not being unreasonable, you're just clueless.
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Cougem
Shadow Company
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:37:00 -
[3563]
Edited by: Cougem on 15/10/2008 15:37:07 Just a bit insulting frankly. I've been a subscriber for years, but sometimes I have to stop for a few months when I go away on work. CCP are doing this so I have to pay to get skills when I can't play. The company I have given hundreds and hundreds of pounds to wont even admit that. Complete bas*****. |
Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:38:00 -
[3564]
You know, it's funny because I'm sure it was assumed that the people who switched to monthly subscriptions wouldn't quit so easily.
I hope that the people who said they would, did. Doing otherwise would be an endorsement of this change. |
sycokill
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:38:00 -
[3565]
I think that CCP made a big mistake implementing the ghost training nerf this way for various reasons:
1.It took them over 5 years to actually 'fix' the 'bug' when it should have been done ages ago, as it would be stupid to think players would not take advantage of it.
2. They barely gave anyone time to react to the sudden change by deploying it in such a short time frame, at least giving some prior notice would be the wise thing to do but i guess it wouldn't be very convenient since they just done the power of two promotion
3. They should have admitted it was a feature that went out of hand and therefore it was ruining their revenue instead of making it out like it was a 'bug' and something that wasn't intended. Being honest would make things so much easier imo.
All of these factors together is what is causing such an outcry, i can understand the reasons behind the change and i think it was silly to not implement it sometime before since people have become accustomed to it. In the end its hard to say whether CCP will benefit from such a change, i'm sure many people who take a break wont bother resubbing ,but those that are rich enough to sustain more than 1 account will fill up some of the gaps. I guess only time will tell.
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:39:00 -
[3566]
Quote: Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you
is a wrong aseveration becouse for ccpis lees incoming and not rith now but in one near furute if the ppl who are leaving are enougth they dont cant suport their fancy servers becouse they are too xpensive to deal with.. so if ppl leave allways is a bad news for ccp not for you mate you can play till ccp says we are broken and can suport the game..
again this thing was totaly avoidable if ccp was sincere and says one of our mayor investemens was the banck who broke in icelandic so we need more incoming if you chec in the ccp page check de investment areas.. sry but this is the only truth and they cant handle that |
Woofsie
Minmatar White Wolves Syndicate THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:41:00 -
[3567]
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS
Quote: Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you
is a wrong aseveration becouse for ccpis lees incoming and not rith now but in one near furute if the ppl who are leaving are enougth they dont cant suport their fancy servers becouse they are too xpensive to deal with.. so if ppl leave allways is a bad news for ccp not for you mate you can play till ccp says we are broken and can suport the game..
again this thing was totaly avoidable if ccp was sincere and says one of our mayor investemens was the banck who broke in icelandic so we need more incoming if you chec in the ccp page check de investment areas.. sry but this is the only truth and they cant handle that
Why can't you talk properly? |
Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:41:00 -
[3568]
Originally by: Vietone Not even, the fact that its listed in one place thats not obvious is hardly something they taught you to do.
Um... What?
The game manual is not an obvious place?
This may come as a shocker to you, but some people actually read game manuals. Especially manuals for online games, because with a slower connection it takes ages to download the client, so there's plenty of time to prepare for the game by, say, reading the manual.
Quote: This thread alone is bigger than all previous ghost training threads combined as far as the forum database goes. Therefore, its a fact that a minority of people even knew about it. Will they lose some subscribers? Probably, but not much.
The forum proves nothing, since only a fraction of players bother to read them. And are you seriously saying that a huge thread of people complaining about the removal of a feature is a sign that they didn't know about the excistence of said feature?
Quote: AS I said before, its unfair to subscribers that people who dont pay still skill train.
As I said before, it's a feature of the game. A major feature, I might add. It's unfair to new players that older players will always be ahead of them in skillpoints, but it's another feature of the game. Whether it's unfair or not is neither here nor there. It's an unfairness knowingly allowed by CCP, whether originally intentional or not. |
Daxit
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:42:00 -
[3569]
this is sweet as , might signup another account since theres going to be less lag with all you guys quitting |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:44:00 -
[3570]
Originally by: Daxit this is sweet as , might signup another account since theres going to be less lag with all you guys quitting
Yep best get on it
Fighting yourself has got to be better than fighting noone
Have fun |
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