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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |

thorax spartan
Solar Flux Ltd
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:12:00 -
[4561]
has ccp even said sorry for the way this was put out by thier pr dept . i find it very hard to beleve that its taken this long to fix a "bug" and if it has they should sack thier programmers . but ninja editing the guides to remove the fact they advitsed it as a game mechanic kinda sucks . i have played eve for over 2 n half years now and this is the worse balls up by ccp i have seen so far...... yes i have used what they now call ghost training wen my work/rl stoped me playing but i always came back cos i knew that i had a skill all trained up i even had a alt which is now not worth activating again  Has there even been any real responce from ccp over this complee balls up?
fly safe
thor |

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:18:00 -
[4562]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 19/10/2008 09:21:07
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Azraeljbs I myself have monitored the character bazaar and noticed a huge jump in activity over the last week.
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
By that logic you're a character farmer, because you have a character. It was people that had a character that they were not constantly using, that doesn't make them character farmers, had the change not gone through they probably would have kept them forever and not sold them.
I have never bought or sold any characters, but this change will likely result in me selling one, as I never actually use him anyway. And the plus is, he will net me a lot more ISK as a result. In fact any one who has a high SP char will benefit in this way, making it only harder for new players.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:47:00 -
[4563]
Originally by: Lord Fitz In fact any one who has a high SP char will benefit in this way, making it only harder for new players.
Well, at least new players haven't been screwed before.
Oh...wait...
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |

Demonos Silentium
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:58:00 -
[4564]
heheh. if ccp starts making losses with eve i bet blizzard will buy it and then we will have horde with spaceships!
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:13:00 -
[4565]
Edited by: kan han on 19/10/2008 10:13:38 just found this in the blogosphere that puts some other stuff into view as well:
Quote: And the answer to the question on a very real impact just stays open: How does the global and local financial crisis touches CCP? The company is based in Iceland which is well known these days for eating the pain financially. They were one of the first countries that needed to stop the money-flow before fully touching ground. Even though CCP is not tired to procolamate that they are a commercial company and that they do love capitalism, they say with no words what kind of impact this very unlovely capitalistic reality has for their company.
In such a situation a company should ask theirself how they can raise the level of faith and trust on the users side that their users still can believe that their pre-paid money for game-time was worth to be paid.
Source
I find the last sentence very interesting, because like with stocks, the way you buy game-time in advance you put in trust into EVE that they will be online for the time paied at the very least.
Now CCP was very on duty to remove "the bug of ghost training".
I would love to see a clear and valid statement from CCP how long the servers will be online and we as users will be able playing regulary guaranteed.
And I know another Bug: Accounts aren't deleted while not paied for them. 
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Nemar Tel'Narin
Capital Idea
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:16:00 -
[4566]
I'm sure in 152 pages this has been covered but someone plz answer me a couple things. I'd even take an ingame evemail answer.
1. OK take out 'ghost training' but not add skill Q'in 2. We have chars who haven't been active 3+ years and prolly won't be back yet they WANT them to come back as they were. 3. I know I saw it somewhere, what's to come back to if not a new 60+ day skill.
I'm sure there are those who abuse it and I'm sure the amount of abusers have risen lately but so have the amount of ppl who are frakin poor due to economy, gas prices etc.
Business aside come on. You aren't loosing that much money vs what you gain IMHO. I seriously ask someone to respond to me with a legit responce. Meaning CCP. Yeah I know. Laughable. Falling over dying from laughter but anyway. Seeing how you can annouce most changes well in advance and get discussion more. Yet we are at your whim and have a simple choice. Either stay and put up with it or leave.
Cheap mans Siggy
Catamarack: Nem, your momma's so fat, BoB thought she was a region and claimed her.
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SPQRMocton
Minmatar Calmarr Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:51:00 -
[4567]
OK will you guys who say your going to quit do it already and stop posting ? The herd needs some thinning < I have way to much competition in t2 inventing , all you whiner t2 inventors quit now please. And all you mission running whiners quit please your oversaturation of the the market of rare items is really depressing prices. O and CCP GIVE 'EM HELL don't back down Fly reckless and take chances..............it's more fun |

Doonoo Boonoo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:21:00 -
[4568]
So....
Customers making use of the Ghost training feature is unfair because it gives players an unfair advantage for free.
Customers buying GTCs and selling them for Isk is fair because it gives players an unfair advantage that they pay CCP for. 
I can't wait for Jumpgate-Evolution tbh.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:24:00 -
[4569]
Originally by: SPQRMocton OK will you guys who say your going to quit do it already and stop posting ? The herd needs some thinning < I have way to much competition in t2 inventing , all you whiner t2 inventors quit now please. And all you mission running whiners quit please your oversaturation of the the market of rare items is really depressing prices. O and CCP GIVE 'EM HELL don't back down
It won't be us T2 inventors quitting, it'll be our customers :(
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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ShadowDraqon
Awesome Industries Group
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:28:00 -
[4570]
Originally by: *****slap
Originally by: ShadowDraqon CCP was losing money.
How can you say CCP was losing $ on it, do you have any facts to back that up?
Losing as in not getting money they could have been making  ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly |
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Johnnny B
Caldari Murky Inc. Power Of 3
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Posted - 2008.10.19 13:04:00 -
[4571]
Not too sure if these have been asked....
does a exspired account now stop erning isk, if they have stuff on the market too? also on the contracts?
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 13:26:00 -
[4572]
Originally by: Johnnny B Not too sure if these have been asked....
does a exspired account now stop erning isk, if they have stuff on the market too? also on the contracts?
Soon in an EVE online game near you: Removal of all sell orders and contracts when account runs out of subscription time.
After all, ur not paying so why should u earn money!??! HAHA!
Tiv
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2008.10.19 13:34:00 -
[4573]
Originally by: Duskadantor Edited by: Duskadantor on 19/10/2008 09:06:53
DONT SAY THAT!
I dont want CCP to change the GTC from 60 to only 90 days.
Besides, using time codes simply means you'll have to pay for more game time than opposed to a shorter 30 day stint for 14.95. So I'd argue that your giving them more money and business using the GTC route. Anyways I dont want CCP or eve to die, so urm :P to you. So why I'm even bothering to mention this could possibly be due to the fact... i wantz to see the number 5000.
EDIT: "Whoo hoo. I gave birth to page 152!"
Iceland took a huge dip in monetary loss due to the recent banking crisis.. As such ccp's bank balance and income have gone up by 20% while the staff pay has not moved.. MMORPG Companys "typically" make a mint after a few years of rolling, unless they are plowing every penny extra back into a new mmorpg then there's no way ccp would let this go..
A lot of us feel this was just a quick knee-jerk moneygrab..
CCP giving a 3 month warning on this change (or warning before pushing people to buy 2nt accounts) would have made a world of difference.
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Turismo
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Posted - 2008.10.19 14:00:00 -
[4574]
Originally by: Nemar Tel'Narin
I'm sure there are those who abuse it and I'm sure the amount of abusers have risen lately...
It wasn't a question of abuse. If it was a bug people were exploiting it and if it was a feature people were availing themselves of it. It doesn't matter how much or how little it was used by any individual.
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Jessy Jin
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Posted - 2008.10.19 14:23:00 -
[4575]
IMO declaring it as a bug now just to get a reason to turn it off is ridiculous. If I remember correctly it was turned off on the Chinese server several months ago... At that time they left it enabled on the European server and now all of a sudden it's a bug? You should really work on your credibility!
I just hope people will react on this and maybe CCP may recognize the big mistake (the decision and the way to tell their players) they have done!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.19 15:00:00 -
[4576]
Originally by: Drew Falcon
Anyway, the ones making the biggest deal about it will quit for a week and come right back when boredom peaks. These things tend to blow over with little memory remaining, (BOB's tech 2 BPO's anybody?)
That alone may not be enough reason for someone to quit.
That added to other events, changes and the way CCP tried to treat it's subscriber base like total morons.. well... the T20 thing was yet another snowflake.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 15:33:00 -
[4577]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 19/10/2008 15:33:06
Originally by: SPQRMocton
The herd needs some thinning < I have way to much competition in t2 inventing , all you whiner t2 inventors quit now please.
Look at how stupid you are. T2 inventors and other advanced players make FAAAAR more ISK / month than a GTC costs, it's a huge loss for them to ghost train. (estimated 1-3B/month loss each ghost trained month for this account). Each alt account I shut down cost me at least 500M/month since August.
The people who need this are younger characters using the feature to get to the point of being able to fit t2. Being a newbie these days is rough -- flying a t1 frigate when most of the playersbase is in nanoed out t2 HACs is exactly 0 fun.
In my case the last ghost train (I can't finish a 30+ day skill while an account is funded, I have eve training ADD) was for jump drive optimization V, to let me *BUY UP* over 2B of your t2 a week for hauling to were it gets destroyed -- deep 0.0. Guess that's another bil or two a week you'll just have to move using .01 isk games.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.19 16:03:00 -
[4578]
Nice move CCP.
5 years from feature to bug.
just one question,
Who in the love of god 5 years ago submitted the bug report for this?
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |

Chi Reyl
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Posted - 2008.10.19 16:33:00 -
[4579]
Has CCP had changes in the management lately? Somehow they seem to be going the wrong way lately!
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.19 16:50:00 -
[4580]
Edited by: Clansworth on 19/10/2008 16:54:37
Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 19/10/2008 09:21:07
Originally by: Clansworth
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
By that logic you're a character farmer, because you have a character. It was people that had a character that they were not constantly using, that doesn't make them character farmers, had the change not gone through they probably would have kept them forever and not sold them.
I have never bought or sold any characters, but this change will likely result in me selling one, as I never actually use him anyway. And the plus is, he will net me a lot more ISK as a result. In fact any one who has a high SP char will benefit in this way, making it only harder for new players.
Jeez, I was just joking, but I guess I should have known better than to try to put some humor in the middle of a full-scale bi+ch-fest. I just don't like the idea of selling characters, but that's for a few reasons. First, it's a RP thing for me. Second, I think people should do their time and learn the game as they go, not start out with a bunch of skills they don't know how to properly use. Third, characters in EvE carry with them a history, and I just see far to many instances of people having to explain that 'that was me before my brain transplant' or something. The fact is, unlike most MMO's, the game is just as much fun in a frigate as it is in a battleship, so why not enjoy the journey?
POS Personal Storage |
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.19 17:41:00 -
[4581]
Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.19 18:05:00 -
[4582]
Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that I haven't really read enough of the thread to understand the backlash? Probably not.
There, that's better.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 19:21:00 -
[4583]
Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not.
Some people don't like being lied to.
I guess your girlfriend is free to do whatever she wants considering that statement.
Tiv
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.19 19:41:00 -
[4584]
i still have that moral dilemma
on the one hand i love the game (because well its the only space mmo out there that does everything)
but on the other hand i dont feel like giving a company money that lies in my face :/ (and is also plagued by the mediocre bug )
what to do what to do
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Ra Jackson
Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 20:11:00 -
[4585]
Originally by: Clansworth The significant difference with CCP is that they are still spending a large amount on R&D for the existing product, so in order to support another, income would have to increase.
concerning the recent changes to the game I sometimes wonder if it was better for them spending less on EVE R&D and just leave it alone.
hi CCP, less $ from me.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.19 20:23:00 -
[4586]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not.
Some people don't like being lied to.
I guess your girlfriend is free to do whatever she wants considering that statement.
Tiv
Who lied to you?
And what does your girlfriend have to do with this thread? Do you really think this is a good place to vent your personal angst? ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.19 21:02:00 -
[4587]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Who lied to you?
Originally by: Soma Khan
Is there a more convincing way to show that I haven't really read enough of the thread to understand the backlash? Probably not.
... And again.
Seriously. Read the thread properly, do some research please.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.19 21:29:00 -
[4588]
Originally by: ninjaholic STFU you spoiled b**tards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l b**tards stop complaining about lag.
Any argument that ghost-skilling takes away money from important Eve features is fallacious. Look at CCP's accounts (posted a few pages back). They reveal a large exceptional expense, likely related to their deal with White Wolf. A deal that offers little to people who love Eve and want Eve to be better.
Note that my argument is not whether CCP should or should not invest in other games. I'm just pointing out a fault in your line of reasoning.
-vk
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.19 21:34:00 -
[4589]
Originally by: Soma Khan [snip]stuff[/snip] Who lied to you? [snip]irrelevant[/snip]
did u ever happen to think about the reasons ccp gave for the removal of unpaid training?
if you think those are valid, proveable facts - then you should perhaps read some of the posts in this thread and think about it again.
if not - you just answered your own question. |

Sentient Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.10.19 21:37:00 -
[4590]
Edited by: Sentient Mayhem on 19/10/2008 21:44:51
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Sentient Mayhem I for one will not be subsidizing CCP's new vampire MMO with what I pay to them for Eve. The time card move and now this. It seems obvious they trying to squeeze everything they can out of Eve to fund the new MMO.
This is nonsense, you do this with every single product you purchase. A part of the profits of any company is spent on R&D on new products, how else do new products come about? The significant difference with CCP is that they are still spending a large amount on R&D for the existing product, so in order to support another, income would have to increase. Also realizing that since their prices are pretty much tied to the US$, and it's real value has dropped significantly in the last couple years, their prices have actually been dropping in real value. Prices go up. It's a fact of life. The only way for the prices to realistically go DOWN for eve would be for them to stop spending on any R&D for it, and just maintain the current status/features. That's not their way of doing things.
It is still by far the best Sci-Fi MMO out there, and IMO, the best MMORPG period. I believe a part of that is the high cost of entry and steep learning curve thinning the playerbase to the ones who REALLY enjoy it. This appears to be turning into just another thing that will thin out the herd a bit.
You are wrong. Every company does not do this. At least not to the extent where the existing products long term survival are being sacrificed to support the development of the new product. I've been a customer of a MMO company in the past that was pursuing the development of a new MMO.(Dark Age of Camelot) Inevitably the customers of the original product begin to suffer as the most talented employees are deployed to work on the new game and the "B" team left behind to run the original game aren't up to the task. As the development of the new game moves into full swing, resources and finances become strained and short sighted decisions are made that will hurt the game long term but the company see's a possible short term gain and so they make the decision anyway. What do they care? If the new MMO is a hit, the fate of the original product is not nearly so important.
I believe that is exactly what we are seeing here. A "B" team left in the custody of Eve while the "A" team focuses his efforts on CCP's new MMO. We are also seeing the short sighted decisions which is going to cost Eve players(customers) long term but CCP is doing it anyway because they see it as a solution which might raise precious extra revenues short term.
They miscalculated this time though. Unlike the Time Card change which may have netted them additional short term revenues, this decision is going to cost them dearly right away. I believe they are going to see a noticeable drop in active subscriptions in as short as a months time. Give it 2 to 3 months for many of the active subs to run out, you are going to see an even bigger drop.
For the CCP Fanboi's who are saying good riddance to those quitting, you are pure idiots. The game you like to play is not going to be so much fun as the downward spiral of player departures takes its toll on the active player population. And if you think CCP has issues now running this game properly, just wait to see what you have in store when they have significantly less revenue from lost subscriptions to work with while still having relatively the same overhead to cover.
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