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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.02.08 13:40:00 -
[6091]
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
your powers of observation are astounding. almost as astounding as cccps lack of them. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.02.08 14:05:00 -
[6092]
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
Have a look at how many pages were created before the change went through, with the whole of what 2 days notice ? And it still hit records not even passed by devs cheating. The answer to who cares? Apparently more people than for any other whine, but not CCP. Which will put in perspective just how useful whines are about anything else. |
The Turkleton
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:22:00 -
[6093]
Well hell, I missed the memo. I just resubbed my account after the 5 day trial and missed this whole poostorm. Up til about 5 minutes ago i assumed Drone Interfacing 5 was almost finished on my inactive alt account. So that's about 17 days lost training time
Meh i can't say i blame CCP though. If it was hitting their bottom line it was bound to happen sooner than later. I just wish i had know about it 17 days ago... |
bigbillthaboss2
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Posted - 2009.02.09 23:44:00 -
[6094]
Yeah I would have had Battleship lvl 5 finished but they didn't really send out a massive, clear message regarding the change. CCP should have at least let the skills that were in the "non-subscription" zone finished for the last time. hmph oh well this is long past and over with, would like my marauder though... |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.10 01:02:00 -
[6095]
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
People do care thats why there are 203 pages. |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.10 01:51:00 -
[6096]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
People do care thats why there are 203 pages.
Do you think CCP is unable to see how many discrete accounts contributed to this "discussion"? ___
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.02.10 01:56:00 -
[6097]
they dont care
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.13 17:57:00 -
[6098]
Originally by: 8Z 6 they dont care
You might be right. |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.13 19:05:00 -
[6099]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: 8Z 6 they dont care
You might be right.
___
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.02.20 05:06:00 -
[6100]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: 8Z 6 they dont care
You might be right.
He's right. They don't care. Well, whether they actually care or not, they will not reveal the information and it has now been completely obscured by evolving events. I'm quite sure, though, that more than a few ppl have been doing what I've been doing: making sure that I pay CCP less altogether than I was paying them before they nerfed unsubbed training. So I can be sure that the new highs in online population would have been higher had they not nerfed it. It's a complete no-brainer that unsubbed training acted to bring lapsed accounts back, and bring them back sooner. I have no doubt whatsoever that quite a few accounts were consolidated, reducing revenue from those subscribers. CCP never stated a real and credible reason for having nerfed it, so all the speculations about account farming and whatnot have been nothing more than that: groundless speculations. The only thing we can reasonably guess about the reason for the nerf was an executive/management presumption that the nerf would "force" more ppl to maintain accounts active more of the time, and those of us who feel strongly are making sure that that does not happen in our cases.
And now we will have a form of skill queue, something they resisted for a long time. So one could say that CCP caved on the issue of a skill queue while standing firm on their decision to nerf unsubbed training and give up the account returns to active status that unsubbed training certainly produced. Why would they cave on one issue and stand firm on the other? No idea. Since they're tight-lipped about their real reasons for this stuff, we can't know. It's also clear that unsubbed training and a skill queue were never mutually exclusive. We could have both and the Eve community would be better for haivng both, but no.
We can only conclude that they are secretive beyond any discernable reason to be so. Personally I no longer trust them as far as I can throw them. I like the game but I have very little respect left for the people of CCP. I will not begrudge them credit for the things they do right while reserving the right to criticize them for the things I believe they do wrong. But I doubt I will ever actually like them, which I find sad. I would like nothing more than to love the game and love the people who bring me the game. But I can't.
And so CCP has made its decisions and are sticking to them, and I have made mine and am sticking to them. So be it.
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2009.02.20 10:43:00 -
[6101]
Hello all, this is the last day in the last account (of three) that I have. Now I only be re-subing when CCP gives promotions, insted of resubing (times 3) for two months, and play along that time. It's a shame. EVE won't have nothing new for my chars when I come back, they will be with the same skills and can only fly the same ships as now. See you all in the next big promotion of CCP.
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Actual Hero
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Posted - 2009.02.21 13:22:00 -
[6102]
Well guys I had a long time to think about this. Why have a specialty alt if you can't inact. train them. I just wanted to thank the CCP for allowing me the courage and push to come back down to 1 char. Now i have the time and extra moneys to go try out new online games that still care about the people's wants and needs that play and PAY for them.... Cheers CCP, your utter silence in this has made our decisions easier.
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2009.02.27 08:07:00 -
[6103]
Get off the cross, we need the wood. For T3 production!
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Fenris Ulfur
Tenacious Tendencies
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Posted - 2009.02.27 10:44:00 -
[6104]
I knew ppl where whiny in EVE but jesus this just blows the scale. If this really messes up your game so much then just leave. K-space is crowded allready.
Who needs to be grinding 5 chars at the same time? Do you honestly think thats normal to have that many chars?
I've been playing since 2003 and never made more then 1 account so dont go lecturing me about history or how things have always been. But times change. Would you still be playing if the graphics were like they were in 2003 and the content was the same as back then? If not then GTFO. Originally by: Clansworth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not much of a role-player, but I do see value in stuff being somewhat based on some so |
Belliana
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:07:00 -
[6105]
It's absolutely amazing how frighteningly butthurt people will become when you take away that bowl of candy you had out on your desk. Even scarier that they will go to these lengths to try and get it back.
There's more tears in this thread than there were in every theater that showed The Notebook. The only good thing about this thread is that it lets me see how many emo crybabies I won't have to deal with in this game anymore.
It also proves CCP's point, there really were way too many people abusing ghost training. Every new emotears post only confirms to CCP that they did the right thing.
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Barratacus
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:30:00 -
[6106]
I just went from trial to full account. During the two days I was inactive before going full account I seemed to have trained a skill to completion. The skill was 2 days and 9 hours to completion.
Ghost training seemed to still work under trial -> full account activation.
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Ahnold Schwarzenegger
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Posted - 2009.02.27 20:12:00 -
[6107]
Edited by: Ahnold Schwarzenegger on 27/02/2009 20:11:50 They give you a 2-3 day mercy timer before they shut down your skilltrain.
Probably to avoid annoying people who forget to pay for their subs on time.
AHNOLD
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Demon Azrakel
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Posted - 2009.03.01 14:08:00 -
[6108]
to the previous 6081 posters
even if you are not quitting...can i have your stuff??
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.03.01 16:50:00 -
[6109]
Originally by: Demon Azrakel to the previous 6081 posters
even if you are not quitting...can i have your stuff??
Its all yours.
Grab your ankles and smile...here it comes.
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Lactatious
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Posted - 2009.03.02 11:44:00 -
[6110]
Originally by: Belliana
It also proves CCP's point, there really were way too many people abusing ghost training.
It's somewhat difficult to 'abuse a bug' when that same mechanic was touted as a 'friendly feature' in their marketing information and player guides. |
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.03.04 04:33:00 -
[6111]
Originally by: Demon Azrakel to the previous 6081 posters
even if you are not quitting...can i have your stuff??
A highly original post, worthy of a reply.
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Draco Argen
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Posted - 2009.03.04 15:23:00 -
[6112]
I remember when I joined Eve back in 04, two things impressed me 1) You didn't need to be paying to train, and I thought this was noble, although you couldnt change your skills. Which seemed fair. 2) I was impressed when they kept my account regardless of how long i left for.
It felt like good customer care and encouraged long term loyalty. "you can leave eve, but were so nice you will probably come back on your own, because were cool"
Anyway, can we get up to 6660 posts and then stop dead? 666 didnt seem high enough, and 6666 ruins the number :D
ps, I used to ghost train with 1 char only, it allowed me, to you know. Have a life :D
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.03.05 12:10:00 -
[6113]
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur I knew ppl where whiny in EVE but jesus this just blows the scale. If this really messes up your game so much then just leave. K-space is crowded allready.
Reading comprehension failure.
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur I've been playing since 2003 and never made more then 1 account
Moron. Amateur. Having just one Eve account is its own punishment. Not sure, though, what you think one's number of accounts has to do with the unsubbed training issue.
Originally by: Belliana It's absolutely amazing how frighteningly butthurt people will become when you take away that bowl of candy you had out on your desk. Even scarier that they will go to these lengths to try and get it back.
Reading comprehension failure.
Originally by: Belliana It also proves CCP's point, there really were way too many people abusing ghost training. Every new emotears post only confirms to CCP that they did the right thing.
Total logic failure. No one, not CCP and not any Forum poster, ever provided even the slightest shred of evidence of "abuse" of unsubbed training.
Thanks, you guys, for showing your utter inability to think your way out of a paper bag and for showing that you didn't read the thread and have no idea of what the issues are.
For my part, I'm satisfied that CCP is suffering a loss of $$$ from me every month from what I used to pay them before they nerfed unsubbed training. Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate. That's just to keep reminding CCP in the cancel messages of my continuing displeasure and to make sure CCP doesn't get automatic renewals of any of my accounts. There's no limit to how long I can keep doing this.
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ice sect
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:41:00 -
[6114]
Edited by: ice sect on 05/03/2009 23:42:08
Originally by: Roto Rooter
For my part, I'm satisfied that CCP is suffering a loss of $$$ from me every month from what I used to pay them before they nerfed unsubbed training. Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate. That's just to keep reminding CCP in the cancel messages of my continuing displeasure and to make sure CCP doesn't get automatic renewals of any of my accounts. There's no limit to how long I can keep doing this.
heh...i do something similar...altho i dont let them go for too long. stickin' it to da man.
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Vezarus
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Posted - 2009.03.06 08:02:00 -
[6115]
Originally by: Roto Rooter Moron. Amateur. Having just one Eve account is its own punishment. Not sure, though, what you think one's number of accounts has to do with the unsubbed training issue.
Heh. This was funny. Just because some of us don't have specifically trained alts to do things other players can do for us doesn't make us morons. Sure, we can't have one account macro-mining while we have another doing R&D, while still another is out camping a gate somewhere in 0.0. God help us that we don't want to be totally self-sufficient in an MMOG.
One's number of accounts doesn't have anything to do with GT, unless they are specifically letting the account lapse just for the purpose of GT'ing it. No...everyone ran into sudden financial hardships, and wants to have three alts training while they pay for one...so they can put food on the table that month.
Gimme a break.
And then...it's unthinkable to say, buy an account for 1-2B ISK...pop off a long training skill every once in a while...maybe play it for a month or two to train up the ez skills, then turn around and sell it for 5-6B ISK. Gee...pretty good return for low investment. And that's just one scenario of dozens for abusing GT. Which, of course, no one is doing. Right? I mean no one has proven that this is happening, right?
Originally by: Roto Rooter Thanks, you guys, for showing your utter inability to think your way out of a paper bag and for showing that you didn't read the thread and have no idea of what the issues are.
For my part, I'm satisfied that CCP is suffering a loss of $$$ from me every month from what I used to pay them before they nerfed unsubbed training. Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate. That's just to keep reminding CCP in the cancel messages of my continuing displeasure and to make sure CCP doesn't get automatic renewals of any of my accounts. There's no limit to how long I can keep doing this.
The issue as I understand it is that GT was once a feature; now it's not. If CCP wants to downplay it and say it was unintended...hey, it's their game.
I about fell out of my chair when I read the combination of "inability to think your way out of a paper bag" and "Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate.
That's classic. Pure genius at work, there Roto. Now I'm not picking on you per say, but that remark about having one account making someone a moron just kind of got under my skin.
EVE is doing a couple of things. They're finding ways to dump massive amounts of ISK out of the game, (read rigs and T3) thus stimulating the economy. They just eliminated the T2 "bug" - funny how that's coinciding with a new expansion, and new partnered advertising with at least one large computer company that I know of - which will require a great number of players to dedicate themselves to T2 production, thus stimulating the economy.
And - speaking of the new expansion - CCP will add thousands of new players to the game that don't know, and could care less, about ghost training. They will be the ones to stimulate the economy, and stimulate CCP's pocketbook with new subscriber dollars. They'll be the ones to bring their friends with them, because they need people in thier corp to do specific jobs, and they'll be less inclined to create a few alts so they can be self-sufficient (read no GT to help push those alt accounts along for free), rather than depending on a few friends to play with them.
They'll help EVE continue to be...what it was intended to be. A wonderful MMOG that can grow instead of stagnating and slowly dying because a small niche of players was being catered to.
Lastly, if you want to have 5 alt accounts to do everything you need to do in the game, you still can. You just have to pay for that LVL 5 Battleship on toon 3 now. Dang...ain't that a shame?
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Anton Chigur
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Posted - 2009.03.08 00:28:00 -
[6116]
Edited by: Anton Chigur on 08/03/2009 00:29:05 After looking at this:
http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html
Interviews section: T0rfifrans, the brain behind the ghost training removal.
Am I surprised he's using a t-shirt with the north korean flag on it? no.
Only a supporter of a country like that would do something this selfish, totally not thinking about what the population wants or needs.
Anton
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:54:00 -
[6117]
Originally by: Vezarus Heh. This was funny. Just because some of us don't have specifically trained alts to do things other players can do for us doesn't make us morons.
I made no mention of having specifically trained alts to do things other playeres can do for us. I do believe that bragging that one has had only one Eve account since near the beginning does make one a moron. It tries to obscure the fact that multiple accounts definitely make for a better Eve experience. I don't criticize ppl who have just one account.. there are many valid reasons for that... but to brag that one has only ever had one account is beyond silly.
Originally by: Vezarus Sure, we can't have one account macro-mining while we have another doing R&D, while still another is out camping a gate somewhere in 0.0.
If you think those are the only uses for multiple accounts you lack imagination.
Originally by: Vezarus God help us that we don't want to be totally self-sufficient in an MMOG.
Blame CCP, don't blame me. It's a fact that almost everything in Eve is better with at least two accounts. Even the ppl I know who constantly work with many corpmates have multiple accounts.
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:12:00 -
[6118]
Originally by: Vezarus And then...it's unthinkable to say, buy an account for 1-2B ISK...pop off a long training skill every once in a while...maybe play it for a month or two to train up the ez skills, then turn around and sell it for 5-6B ISK. Gee...pretty good return for low investment. And that's just one scenario of dozens for abusing GT. Which, of course, no one is doing. Right? I mean no one has proven that this is happening, right?
It's unthinkable for me. As to other ppl doing that, we have NO INFORMATION from CCP about it. No statements, no claims, no figures. So you're just engaging in unfounded speculation.
Originally by: Vezarus The issue as I understand it is that GT was once a feature; now it's not. If CCP wants to downplay it and say it was unintended...hey, it's their game.
Nope, that's not the issue. You evidently didn't read much of anything in this thread. The two big issues are 1) they lied and spun it about six different ways, and 2) they gave no credible reason for nerfing unsubbed training, which any idiot could see brought back lapsed accounts sooner and in greater quantities. Those who may have actively made use of unsubbed training to bring additional chars up to speed had to pay at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the months in a year to be able to do it, so nothing about it was free in any way. Then too, it has been explained that unsubbed training represented zero load on the Eve servers. The nerf actually causes more load than unsubbed training ever did. But you could have read all of this in the thread.
And a vendor lying to me is not OK with me although it appears to be perfectly OK with you if they lie to you.
Originally by: Vezarus I about fell out of my chair when I read the combination of "inability to think your way out of a paper bag" and "Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate."
That's classic. Pure genius at work, there Roto. Now I'm not picking on you per say, but that remark about having one account making someone a moron just kind of got under my skin.
Yeah, what don't you understand about it? While I choose to remain in the game I also choose to prevent automatic extension and I choose to shave a few days off each account each month. I'm making sure that CCP gets less $$$ from me than they got before the unsubbed training nerf. And they hear the reason for it every month in every account in every cancel message. It's my money and I choose to do it this way.
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Vezarus
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:45:00 -
[6119]
Originally by: Roto Rooter It's unthinkable for me. As to other ppl doing that, we have NO INFORMATION from CCP about it. No statements, no claims, no figures. So you're just engaging in unfounded speculation.
No, not speculation. Just hypothesis. Because no one is doing this. It's unthinkable.
Originally by: Roto Rooter Nope, that's not the issue. You evidently didn't read much of anything in this thread. The two big issues are 1) they lied and spun it about six different ways, and 2) they gave no credible reason for nerfing unsubbed training, which any idiot could see brought back lapsed accounts sooner and in greater quantities. Those who may have actively made use of unsubbed training to bring additional chars up to speed had to pay at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the months in a year to be able to do it, so nothing about it was free in any way. Then too, it has been explained that unsubbed training represented zero load on the Eve servers. The nerf actually causes more load than unsubbed training ever did. But you could have read all of this in the thread.
And a vendor lying to me is not OK with me although it appears to be perfectly OK with you if they lie to you.
Read what I said. It WAS a feature, now it's not. I don't disagree with you that it was once labeled a feature, that the feature was taken away, and that it was spun.
The points I was making in my post were that: It's CCP's game. The loss players due to GT being taken away are negligible. GT has numerous ways of being abused, and CCP doesn't have to prove a thing; we all know it's being done.
Originally by: Roto Rooter Yeah, what don't you understand about it? While I choose to remain in the game I also choose to prevent automatic extension and I choose to shave a few days off each account each month. I'm making sure that CCP gets less $$$ from me than they got before the unsubbed training nerf. And they hear the reason for it every month in every account in every cancel message. It's my money and I choose to do it this way.
In light of the new expansion, do you think your semi-boycott makes the least bit of difference to their bottom line? The point I was makings is that they are STILL getting your money. If you want to make a complete statement, quit the game. If enough subscribers did that and affected CCP's bottom line, they might rethink it.
But...that's not going to happen. GT was a feature for a very small number of players. Most of us morons only hold one account anyway, and really don't care that our character doesn't skill up if we can't afford to play for a month or two here and there. Tons of people that were PO'd about GT sold their alt accounts to people that can afford to advance the alts without the benefit of GT, INCREASING CCP's bottom line in that aspect. I thought it was a rather brilliant move by CCP to allow the buying and selling of accounts. They knew they couldn't stop it...no MMOG yet has overcome that problem. Instead, they chose to take advantage of it and bank on the fact that buyers would keep those accounts consistently active. Not to mention the fact that Plexes were introduced, allowing the sellers to pay for the accounts they could with the earned ISK from selling alts. (Which also ties into GT benefiting players without producing actual income for CCP, but I'll leave that one to your imagination.) I'll bet it's working, too. I know dozens of players that have bought alt accounts, and keep them active every month.
GT is gone. Where it once was good business sense for CCP, it has now become bad business sense. Any company in their right mind would have done the same thing. Sure, you may be upset that it happened, and furious at the spin, but it's not coming back. Period.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2009.03.11 11:22:00 -
[6120]
I lost track of this a while back, and it's now running over 200 pages, has there been any official word on this recently? Or has the 'I don't know how they can just ignore this much longer' bemuzement continued?
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