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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [1261] Originally by: clone 1 LIES Devblog: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills." But in the Official player guide Player Guide: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Linkage Just in case Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up. OMG I love you, Proof for every one to see. LIES LIES DIRTY FILTHY GREEDY LIES. _ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Marcus Wyld Caldari BlackSky inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [1262] I don't particularly like that this is happening, because it increases the cost of training characters without any ability to keep a skill constantly training. The whole ghost training kind of worked as an equalizer for my characters I could at least take a break and know that my skills would still train and make up for all those times when I was too busy to change the skill. That being said I don't believe that it's as much to punish people just trying to salvage training time in a down economic time. Unless I'm reading these wrong it's more to ensure that there is a strong enough cash flow to offset the 300% increase in development costs and 428% increase in debt liabilities for what I hope our extra goodies for the server. CCP Investor Page It is getting increasingly expensive to borrow anyway and this is probably the only alternative for ccp. This action won't make me any more likely to reactivate my alt though.
Scurvy Rickett	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [1263] Minmatar balltship 5 37 days, Minmatar cruiser 5 23 days. That's 2 months of paid subscription to train just 2 skills. I need those in order to use alot of t2 ships and carriers, if i want to make the most out of my character they can't be ignored. If you are going to make this permanant then change the ridiculously long lvl 5 skills. -1 or 2 accounts ccp you really f**ked up with this one
Vikarion Caldari Hunters Imperiale	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 - [1264] Ok, I've already canceled 1 alt account...Teris Thurinson was the char name. I was considering starting him up again, but not now. Nuh-uh. And I may just cancel my other alt. Heck, with the way CCP keeps screwing its players over, I fully anticipate being required to pay for expansions soon. When that happens, I'm gone. And, BTW, CCP, I'm going to make sure to inform any of my friends who are considering using your "product" about your simply disgusting customer service and community relations, not to mention the fact that I'll be asking them not to even try the WoD MMO of yours. Heck, one of them even works for a game site. I think I'll see if I can get him to treat it like treated sewage. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Vek NaVek	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 - [1265] Lol, the Devblog (PanicBlog) just made it worse
rens research	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 - [1266] Originally by: clone 1 LIES Devblog: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills." But in the Official player guide Player Guide: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Linkage Just in case Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up. can we make this txt bigger so ccp can see how bad they are at telling lies The man speaks the truth
Zsani	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 - [1267] Nice to see after the last night that ccp deleting and moderating everything they can in a hurry. Well they can kiss my a.. from now on. 2 alt accounts already canceled. Lies will be still lies CCP!!!4 Even if you tries to hide them, people will know it and will never come back. Byes
Eldar Boon	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 - [1268] I believe that removing the "ghost training" documented feature, is terrible way to treat your loyal customers. To claim it is a bug is despicable behavior; to remove the feature without warning, and shortly after a campaign to encourage people to take on extra accounts shows little respect to your player base.
dojocan81	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 - [1269] Originally by: Lijhal i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!! So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options: Player Base 1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month 2. the option to merge existing characters into one 3. Skill Queque 4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills this!
nathaniel flanders	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:38:00 - [1270] Ghost training was THE major reason to create a second account for me as well. And it still is a major feature when i try to pursuade friends to reactivate their accounts, as they could play another game for the time beeing and not fall behind in skillpoints. Nokidding, it works with 2 of them from time to time. What makes me angry is that it was advertised as a feature, now it's a bug. Even more that this information comes only 2 days ahead. The only good thing with this is, that i won't extend my 2nd accounts subscription. Multi accounts and alts suck.
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:40:00 - [1271] The Good Good for Elder players This protects older players being able to have an advantage in the game over younger players. Cleaner subs It provides CCP with a cleaner subscription base. Not bigger or smaller, it means that players will justify the number of accounts they have. The Bad Bad for Younger players At 2 years, I'm on the young side of a middle aged player. However, my contemporaries are all double my SP, and I'm having to fly side-by-side with players who are twice as skilled as I. Now I have achieved a hell of a lot in EVE. I have Capitals, I look after over a trillion ISK of other people's money (EBANK), I make more ISK than I need, and I have never needed to use Ghost Training, since I can justify all 15 characters I use across all my 5 accounts. What I have done, though, is buy pre-trained characters, who have in all likelihood used Ghost Training to get the character to a saleable level. A lot of people who aren't so good at making money in EVE train characters as a profession. This therefore really hurts both the trainers and buyers. The necessary alt spam There are also quite stringent limitations on characters. As I said, I have 15 characters, 5 of which are highly skilled and specialised. All the others are a variety of: - Trade alts, in different empires to ensure I can sell anywhere in EVE, and be able to check prices across the EVE Galaxy. - Cyno alts, a really nasty but necessary character to be able to use capitals at all - R&D and Manufacturing alts. Because of the stringent limitations in manufacturing and research slots you have per character, every single one of my characters has the necessary skills to run 9 R&D jobs and 9 manufacturing jobs. That's 135 slots for each, and you know what? It's still not enough! Skills should be boosted significantly to accomodate more slots per toon. The Ugly Research points No mention has been made whether R&D research points will be halted, but I suspect that you haven't considered this yet. If you do stop RP gains, this becomes a good point, but it's ugly while it's still around. By stopping RP, this will make RP and datacores more valuable, thus rebalancing invention somewhat - a much needed move. Skill training lengths You have made a big problem for yourselves CCP with being careless in deciding the skill ranks. I believe any skills in progression that have a difference of 2 or more need to be reconsidered. For example ship classes having a difference of two ranks from Frigate to Cruiser need to only be one. The problem is that players join EVE and spend a year finding the game they want to play. After that year, they specialise more and more in the game they have chosen. You need to allow players who really play EVE to the fullest be able to match and surpass their contemporaries. Ghost Training allowed this, but now it's not there and all players will always now have a glass ceiling. Festering bug Now, I don't like exploits as much as you do CCP, and I agree that Ghost Training isn't something that's particularly good for the game. However, you've let it fester for so long, that it's part of the game now, and changing it like this really upsets a lot of people's play and fun in EVE. I strongly urge you to reconsider being a little more gentle on this. What I propose is that you stop skill training 30 days after a character has been deactivated. This would be fair, to stop the people really abusing the exploit, while not penalising absolutely everyone. If this was a bug, why wasn't it removed at the beginning of the game, like 2004 at the very latest? Chairman \| www.eve-bank.net
rens research	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:43:00 - [1272] Originally by: Mr Horizontal However, you've let it fester for so long, that it's part of the game now, and changing it like this really upsets a lot of people's play and fun in EVE. IT IS NOT A BUG CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide
Alleneara	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:44:00 - [1273] Originally by: Zartoll Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here. It's more like an airplane going out of gas, at which point you can't really control it much, but you'll still be moving... for a while. Then it stops. Just like Ghost Training.
ArmyOfMe Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:45:00 - [1274] Originally by: NereSky Originally by: Delos Korelian Originally by: Jinx Barker ... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit. Aint that the truth Qft /signed things havnt been the same since old devs left. the new ones just dont seem to have the same understanding of the game Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Kcahrah	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:46:00 - [1275] Money Money Money the difference between us dollard and euro that CCP don't care about it, after that the 60 Day GTC, for make more money because guys buy card one month after one month now the ghost training ^^, NO it's not for money claim CCP it's just a bug fixing 5 year for a bug fixing ?? don't lie to your customer you just want us to pay in continue in other game dual account is forbiden maybe you can fix this bug too ?? want to win money ? now you lose one more customer THX CCP
maya ibuki2 54th Knights Templar THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:46:00 - [1276] /me wonders if ccp are ever gonna be honest about this batch of frakking pathetic lies their trying to fool us all with. as an aside, i, like others, have taken a screendump of the FAQ, which states that training while accounts are inactive is a feature of this game, and is infact one of teh selling points; so that when ccp do get round to ninja'ing the FAQ, well all have plenty of copies of the truth to spam them with. i dont personally care about the training thing, its the utter bullsh*t were getting fed about it thats got me hacked right off: ccp need to learn to treat its playerbase with the respect it deserves!! maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type
James Marshalll Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:47:00 - [1277] Originally by: Hamlin Brown So you have to pay to play the game, thats the idea stupid. If you want to train skills then pay for it, don't cry like a baby when a bug is fixed. What happens if the whole player base starts doing this? We won't have a game ? Do you think the programmers work for free ? The best things in life are free, eve is not one of them. before you call people "stupid" you should think further then the edge of your seat about what you are saying. What Ghost training did for a lot of players was give them incentive to come BACK to the game after a month hiatus for whatever reason. What this did was allow people who were burnt out, couldn't afford it for a month, or just wanted to go outside to still keep up while knowing full well in a month they would be coming back. For example: I used to play eq, I worked at SCEA. When we would have a new title in production I would be gone for a month or two at a time because I put in 15+ hours a day 7 days a week. When I came back to the game I was so far behind in flags, gear, and levels I quit. EQ2: Same thing, not as harsh since EQ2 leveling is pretty simple and I had exp potions from my vet status rewards. After a week of realizing I wasn't keeping pace I quit. WoW: well, lets be honest, I never played =P I can call a shitty game when I see one haha. You know the only game that ever had me coming back after release of whatever project I happened to be working on at the time? Eve. Know why? Because while I was gone I was still able to advance. There would be 3 months where I would train for 2 and only pay for one, but in the end over 4-5 years of playing I ALWAYS came back. now, knowing me, and knowing my past I doubt I will ever resub if I need to take an extended break. I also wanted to add, the tired excuse of you have to pay to play is used and old. I am not "playing" the game while training the skill, even when I am subbed. I am not taking up bandwith on my inactive account, I am not participating in any large scale battles, and I *was* a reliable source of income for multiple accounts over a given year. Sure maybe not 12 months out of the year, but a good portion of it. Now? I may stick to one account, and if I do ever have to quit for a month there will be the thought of just not coming back. Am I threatening to leave? Nope not right now, but after you get kicked in the teeth so many times, pretty soon there is no teeth left to kick.
clone 1 Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:48:00 - [1278] You can **** off your customers only so many times CCP. This time it's different. LIES, and MONEY do not go down well. Enjoy the drama. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:50:00 - [1279] Originally by: Tres Farmer That is the first time ccp is bloody lying into my face and I'm really really angry about that. No it's not. That's only the first time it's that obvious. Please resize signature to the maximum allowed size of 400 x 12- pixels. Navigator
Skogen Gump Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:52:00 - [1280] Originally by: rens research IT IS NOT A BUG CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide It may just be that it wasn't enough of a bug to just not be fixed at first, so they said it was a feature - like Jet can Mining and the other things that have happened in Eves time. It does sound like its just hit critical mass now. That said, I'm only for this change if it benefits my gameplay somehow. I'm a developer in real life and I know well enough that you shouldn't change stuff just for the hell of it. That way, bugs lays!
RedRage88 Ctrl-Q Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:52:00 - [1281] From bad to worse, i really hope this doesn't kill eve. -------------------------------------------------- Monkey see, monkey do
Johnny Gurkha Death Cult Covenant	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:52:00 - [1282] As my post on page 1 was removed I'll remove the profanity and say it again, CCP you fail
Pallidum Treponema Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:54:00 - [1283] CCP. I'm a tech. I work in IT. I'm a bloody good tech, which means that I not only know how to produce a good product, but I also know how to make my customers happy. But enough about that. Here's how this used to work (in pseudocode): skill = lastUpdate + timeSinceLastUpdate * skillTrainingSpeed To fix this "bug", you would simply need to do the following: if accountExpiredSinceLastSkillUpdate() then skill = lastUpdate + (timeUntilAccountExpired + timeSinceAccountWasRenewed) * skillTrainingSpeed else skill = lastUpdate + timeSinceLastUpdate * skillTrainingSpeed endif A change like that takes what? One minute? Let's say it has to go through peer review, version control, branching, planning etc. Total time, what? Half an hour? How long did it take you to write the announcements and devblogs about it? Half an hour? More? ;) I also don't buy the fact that this was a bug. Sorry, I don't. For it to have been a bug, the original developers would've had to COMPLETELY mess up their design of the skill system. This is not a "feature" that you miss for a total of five years. If it was a bug, it would've been fixed the FIRST time you spotted it. And, as I just proved, a change like that would take what? An hour tops? Heck, let's say one day since I know how development works at times. One single day to fix a bug, over the course of five years? Assuming you've had 20 developers on average for the past 5 years, it would've been a single day out of 36500, to fix a bug that so badly affected not only the game balance, but CCP as a business. The fact that your own new players guide, as well as responses by CCP Wrangler on the forums state that you've been aware of this "bug" for quite a while without doing anything about it, further proves my claim that this was never a bug in the first place.
Stoffl LFC	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:55:00 - [1284] Edited by: Stoffl on 14/10/2008 08:57:34 Edited by: Stoffl on 14/10/2008 08:56:32 OH NOES! IT'S A BUG! LETS PUT UP A DEVBLOG CLAIMING THAT 5 YEARS LATER! AND LETs NINJA THE EVE-GUIDE FOR GOOD. Someone make a Ragequitcounter for this new feature. ImaginePicardFacepalm
rens research	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:56:00 - [1285] Originally by: Skogen Gump Originally by: rens research IT IS NOT A BUG CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide It may just be that it wasn't enough of a bug to just not be fixed at first, so they said it was a feature - like Jet can Mining and the other things that have happened in Eves time. It does sound like its just hit critical mass now. That said, I'm only for this change if it benefits my gameplay somehow. I'm a developer in real life and I know well enough that you shouldn't change stuff just for the hell of it. That way, bugs lays! I very much doubt that, can you name any other time a bug or problem with a program is sold as a "FEATURE" only later to be removed. Its an obvious ploy for CCP to attempt to make more money ( as a business thats fine ), but up front telling BS about the reason is not. Im sure that if they said they were just removing it and not trying to make out some BS about it being a bug, a lot of people wouldnt be as mad as they are. I for one have now cancelled 6 paid accounts based, not on the ghost training coming in, but CCP lieing through their teeth
Jasqar	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:56:00 - [1286] Well this does not make sense to me. Talking of costing you money:) This last stint i paid you 2 (for 2 accounts) back to back 3 month subs. Was going to take a 36 day or so break while marauder 5 trained on both accounts. Would of re subbed then for both accounts for 3 months each. Now? You get 0 from me ever again. Make sense to you? I have not even logged in other than to change skills for months, so not like i was costing you much in bandwidth either:) So long EVE, no reason to come back this way again. Oh -2 accounts if anyone bothering to keep count. Yes they were sporadic in paying you at times, but always came back in the end...till now.
Cyrus Ageis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:59:00 - [1287] Originally by: Jinx Barker ... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit. QFT... Where's Kieron when you need him?
Todoshi Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:59:00 - [1288] Pyramid quote removed. Navigator QFT on the plus side it means never again will i be paying out for 3 subs at any one time, both my alts that have been worked on will be resigned to the pit of inactivity forever....perhaps even my main will too * Signature not within the allowed image size of 400 x 120 pixels - CCP Fallout
ATARI BABY Lords Of Guile	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:59:00 - [1289] player guide still same LIE
Seeker Ash Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.10.14 09:00:00 - [1290] Edited by: Seeker Ash on 14/10/2008 09:12:22 I'm worried about the ferocity with which people argue if ghost training should be allowed or not. (It should, too bad for you if you like playing the game so much that you keep playing even when it gets boring to us lesser players and you just can't stand that, but it's a unique perk that sets the game apart and makes players happy and a happy playerbase keeps the game online.) The real issue as I see it is if the game has a future, or if it will continue to provide less content for more money until not enough players remain. I've lost all interest in playing now because I can't trust if the time, money and emotional commitment I put into the game will come to nothing a few years from now. Maybe I'm alone in this. Sidenote: Just so you all know, "Lose" is the opposite of "Gain", "Loose" is the opposite of "Tight". I've seen this mistake like 20 times in this thread and the old one, they can't all be spelling errors. Originally by: Rinaldo Titano but i hope u loose so many subscribers that u need to close Come on. . . _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues."

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LIES

LIES

... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.

... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.