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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 -
[1861]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus nice carrier pic :)
Ghost train! :D -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 -
[1862]
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 -
[1863]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits. -------------
"I don't mean to sound cruel or harsh, but I am, so that's how it comes out." |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:52:00 -
[1864]
I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1865]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Wygg The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
Well, that would make having them that much more special now, wouldn't it?
I still think barring parked characters for resale is the way to go. Go inactive for more than 50% of your life-span the character is locked and can't get sold. Simple, elequent, and doesn't affect players who ghost train to actually play the characters.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1866]
Originally by: chotaire
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...
why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;)
Far from it.
IP in this context refers to "Intellectual Property," and "license" in this context refers to the legal right to use said intellectual property...
Source code will only tell you how the servers work. Without a license, you're not legally allowed to do anything with the source. Hell, even open-source software has a license (GPL and such).
Or, y'know, you can just sit there and look at hundreds of thousands (if not over a million) lines of code...
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Mriss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1867]
Originally by: Jel Ting
So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
Never ever heard of anybody who could "train and do whatever" without actually paying.
Are you actually missing the whole point here.
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Dathremar
The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1868]
Well I'll throw my opinion into this threadnaught.
I completely, 100% disapprove of this action. If for any reason but the completely unnecessary lies that CCP used for justification.
There wouldn't be nearly this much complaining (believe me there would still be plenty) if CCP just came out and said that they are changing this due to economic stress and believed that this was a change that could increase profits. That is something I can at least approve, even though I can't see how this would help you guys in any way. But instead you first tell us that it will help those of us that haven't abused this "system" which has been completely backed by CCP from the start and THEN when you guys realized that many people were upset by this change you labeled it a bug. This is clearly not a bug, it's been on guides since the game was released. It is also what many here believe to be a very nice game mechanic.
Does CCP really believe that this will increase profits? Really? Do you know how many people take extended breaks from the game and then come back only after a few months to be greeted by "Skill Training Completed" and have something like Battleship V completed? They will stick around after that and I think many people agree that seeing one of those long skills completed after a break is refreshing and gets you back into the game. If I take an extended break from the game, what is the incentive to come back. Everyone, EVERYONE, hates month long training times. There is not a single person and if you take a break and come back to just see mountains of training then you may not want to continue playing.
CCP this is not a good decision. In fact I see this as a terrible change, probably the worst I've seen so far (my year anniversary is coming up). I can understand that today we are seeing massive economic swings, but don't forget that we as consumers are affected too. This change makes me reconsider paying for two accounts especially considering how things have been going so far (I am not in favor of the upcoming nano nerfs). This will only hurt you guys from my standpoint.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1869]
Originally by: Todoshi although it probably won't effect ccp to much, lets face it there will still be 30k+ players logged in tonight and tommorow and the day after that
Quite frankly the number of people currently logged in does not reflect the amount of soon to would have been cap/R&D/whatnot alts that will not be resubbed. I'm sure they've done the math but they can not just keep pushing game mechanics that pretty much require you to outsource tasks to well trained alts and then one day decide to cash in on it.
The fact that the account management page is down is just the icing on the cake.
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LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1870]
I liked this game, because it gave me options. I could go on vacation and have skills being trained. I could start a new account and train for freighter, falcon, hulk pilot, while keeping it active from time to time and ghost training meanwhile playing on other accounts, and then re-activating fully when I could fly the actual thing. I was able to experience something new everytime.
But now, I've lost all of my interest to pay for accounts that I can't use fully. I'm not gonna pay for being able to fly freaking frigate, while training for a freighter.
You fail horribly in understanding your playerbase.
There goes bye bye my subscription..for as someone said, 'Purely for lying to us, you shameless money grabbing corporate *****s'
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1871]
Originally by: Jel Ting
That is a guide, it tells you what to expect, not what is intent. It's not a mission statement or add stating we made it this way for you. We can get lawyered up for a semantic debate, but nah. So new players shouldn't play the game and figure things out? They shouldn't start with a frigate and lvl 1 missions? I started with 15k sp, now people start with 800-900k so your point is invalide withing 2 weeks of a new char now you can be in a t2 frigate with t2 weapons, so cry me a river, as for older players they have older chars they can wait for hulks to train or whatever and play their old account. I still think the character farming is a big aspect we are overlooking, why train one dread pilot when for the same cost I can train 2 and sell one to finance the hardware? So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
You started with 15k SP? Poor man. Was EVE fun for you back then? :) I started with 8k, because I wanted to specialise in something else than what EVE system offered me back then. I had an excel sheet ready to train for 45 days straight just to get all learning bonuses. It was, it is a shitty period in game char development. The new 1 mio starting SP bonus is what had to be done to get new players coming into the game, and with this payment change that barrier should be upped to 2 mio to get people interested again, not lowered for the sake of grumpy old farts like you and me :)
V.
<3 |
Chad Awesomelaser
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1872]
I need 3 more 30 day skills to get to use Awesome Lasers.
Now I won't live up to my name without paying $45 just for that purpose.
I guess I could petition for a name change to Chad Mediocrelaser.
Chad Adequatelaser?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 -
[1873]
Originally by: Signaldog
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.
I don't know about you, but if I were to train carrier to 5, the length of the skill would be nagging at the back of my head a lot. Everytime I log in "Dammit! 64 days, grrr!" -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 -
[1874]
Originally by: Adam Reed
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
And everything they've done in the past has been so well thought out and implemented
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 -
[1875]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V.
how about inactive accounts train at a 50% speed (i.e. takes double as long)
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:55:00 -
[1876]
Originally by: Karina Mei
Originally by: Adam Reed
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
And everything they've done in the past has been so well thought out and implemented
Fair point. -------------
"I don't mean to sound cruel or harsh, but I am, so that's how it comes out." |
ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:56:00 -
[1877]
I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, Joel "ISIAM" Carter
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Netuti
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1878]
just nerf, nerf and nerf. And nothing new... What are you doing?
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1879]
It's not even really what they've done, it's the way it's been done that seems to have got a lot of people annoyed. Blaming it on "database issues" etc was a bit lame IMHO.
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Venus Einstein
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1880]
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job.
double signed,verified,copyied......
THIS IS THE MESSAGE FOLKS; WHATS COMMING UP NEXT
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:58:00 -
[1881]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith Edited by: Yakumo Smith on 13/10/2008 23:30:01 Edited by: Yakumo Smith on 13/10/2008 23:25:50 There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
Yeah funny thing about the credit crunch and all that, people sometimes lapse subscriptions....spiked recently you say....must be pure coincidence.
I also think you should allow current ghosts to run their course. (I don't ghost train)
Failing that, you should consider emailing all subscribers alerting them to this "bug" fix.
But given it's been running for 5 years, this seems about the right length of time for a "bug" fix for you guys :p
edited to add link to original locked thread to show true vocal effect original outrage thread
I would say between that and the new 60d gtc yep
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Arthmandar Valikari
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:58:00 -
[1882]
Edited by: Arthmandar Valikari on 14/10/2008 15:00:03 Edited by: Arthmandar Valikari on 14/10/2008 14:58:43 I realize I'm hopping on to the 61st page of a thread that nobody who wishes to preserve sanity will actually read, but hey, I pay my dime, I can unoffensively blather on these forums as much as I like.
I am something of a programming nerd. I'm not a betting man, but if I was I would be willing to bet that this is exactly the implementation of the skill system now, and the proposed change. I'm about 99% certain that this is how it is implemented in the first place.
1) When you change a skill, the date of completion is calculated and written in the database. Done. There's no active maintenance of this field. It just sits there. Your client is responsible for checking that value, and for providing you pretty counters and skill completion messages, but really, it's just a single, written once, read a few times, value in the database. It is independent of whether or not your account is active. Every time you log in, the client checks this value to determine if your skill is done; if not, it checks to see when it will be. Hence, if you set a skill and go inactive, there is no database load at all. When you come back, the date is checked, and marked as completed. You now have a new skill. It is extremely low-load on the system. I can't imagine it is any other way.
2) After this change, when you cancel or your subscription runs out, the code to pause active account training will be executed. (A simple calculation based on when you set the skill, now, and when it would complete is done to figure out how many skill points you 'earned', and these are applied). That field in the database is cleared. Again, I can't imagine it is any other way.
So there you have it. If the system has a design as good as this one, there is *no load* on the database for these characters with ghost training. After the change, there will be *light load* on the database to do the skill training pause as subscriptions expire.
I know, this is news to nobody in the thread. I just wanted to point out how completely silly the argument is that this is adding to lag or whatnot.
Edit: you can see that if the system is as simple as I've described it, that a skill queue would be a significant departure from the current system. That's probably why we don't have one. Also, you can see how the original design of the skill system didn't take into account active or inactive accounts; ghost training was simply a consequence of an actual bug that people liked and it was declared a feature. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:58:00 -
[1883]
Edited by: Razin on 14/10/2008 14:59:41 In on page 61 62 of an epic thread!!1111
P.S. Just goes to show, give the unwashed masses some cheap and simple reason for righteous indignation and they'll go ape shit over it. ...
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1884]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:04:27 Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:01:11
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base. Pure hypocrisy.
Oh, that's pretty priceless :D Soon to be ret-conned, I predict.
FYI, CCP on the subject of subscriptions: I recently signed up a second account on the Power of 2 program, planning to stick to a tightly focussed six month trainging program, for Interceptors and Amarr ships that my main doesn't fly. I was always then going to be folding this second character back into my main account thereafter.
Your game is good, but not that good.
Considering that I have a set expiry time on my subscription, and no desire to run two acounts in the long run - an in game and out of game (email) subscription expiry reminder would be highly handy, so that I don't get stung with a suddenly inactive account.
PS - Is it coincidence that the Power Of 2 offer just finished? I take it your marketting people were expecting a flurry of sign-ups arising out of this, and didn't want to offer these people the discount package.
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Arestan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1885]
-2 accounts.
Take care, CCP.
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Shaitis
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1886]
Bye CCP
"What is funnier ? 20 Matari slaves pinned to one tree or 1 Matari slave p |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1887]
Originally by: Karina Mei It's not even really what they've done, it's the way it's been done that seems to have got a lot of people annoyed. Blaming it on "database issues" etc was a bit lame IMHO.
Solar flares
Aliens
Salamander Invasion Force
Fish Tank ***Database Issues*** -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1888]
Originally by: Aenemah
Originally by: Triksterism
Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
This.
In fact I know a lot of long time players who ghost-train much and only return from time to time to check on the new toys they trained while they were away. For most of them returning to Eve is motivated almost solely by the ability to play around with new things until they get bored again and take another break. For such people having to pay full time for an account they only sporadically use would not be a viable option. I will not go as far to suggest that forcing them out of the game will amount to a huge financial loss to CCP since I have no idea how many such players there are out there, though if I had to hazard a guess I'd put most people who have stuck around since game launch in this category. However it is a factor to be considered. Personally I know I'd hate to see them gone from the game, at least not as a result of an unambiguous profiteering act by CCP.
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Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1889]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Signaldog
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.
I don't know about you, but if I were to train carrier to 5, the length of the skill would be nagging at the back of my head a lot. Everytime I log in "Dammit! 64 days, grrr!"
I have done and I ya, i get that "Damnit" quite often, but that doesn't stop me from playing the game. I've got skills planned out for the next 283 days (evemon says so), but that doesn't mean I won't be PLAYING for those 283 days...each skill completed allows me to integrate a new piece of hardware into my specific style of gameplay, whether it's PvP or PvE or market or industry or what have you. Point is, I pay for 2 accounts every month so I can play 2 characters day in and day out (or not for weeks if I choose). CCP screwed up on the manner in which they did this, but I'm still trying to figure out what the BIGGEST issue is:
1) Loss of Ghosting? 2) CCP Actions? 3) SOME players ****ed cause they lost their free ride?
I don't know...someone tell me.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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thelung187
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1890]
Edited by: thelung187 on 14/10/2008 15:02:15
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Quoting this due to the lol/"working-as-intended-wait-we-get-more-money-maybe-the-other-way" factor.
edit: glad to see you were able to edit that so quickly, way to be on top of it CCP!
[ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or s |
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