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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Tara Yang
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1981]
All in all it is an epic fail that ghost training was stated as a feature and used as a positive thing. And then later on saying it's a bug. (I know has been said a million times already in this thread). But even more so is the fact that they ninja edited after people pointed it out to CCP. But the biggest one is the fact that you can not even log in and change something on your account details and saying
 Originally by: My account message
The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance.
We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Which we all know is utter CR@P. There is now mainenance done on that. They just don't want people making irradicat desscions.
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Fron Arran
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1982]
Thin end of the wedge?
How long before we see "Accounts dormant for more than 3 consecutive months will be deleted to free up database space" ?
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1983]
well lets disobey in game.
Lets set few systems to bring down permanently for 3 days.
Take your chars there,fill the system whith let say 2000 ppl and fit rr dronse and moduls and just lag the hell out of game.
jita coud be nice place.
If we all bring our mains in jita it relese tons of dronse and activate rr moduls ccp will see what r real problems to solve in this game.
And will see that u canot ignor and lie ppl who r actualy paying thier products.
so guys start moving your mains and alts to jita.
Im on my way now......
see you all there
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Sebiestor Sid
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1984]
Either way you argue it, it is pretty clear that this 'bug fix' will result in fewer alt subscriptions and also keep players from returning after breaks.
I think that puts the Eve Economy and the game itself into decline.
We are all going to lose friends, and some of us will struggle as key business contacts and market opportunities we have already invested in disappear. I don't think it will take a frustrated player base long to realize that this is more like a submarine sim with some really WOW-ishly absurd features.
Bad move.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:40:00 -
[1985]
Here is my modified version of this devblog:
"Hello capsuleers, we at CCP have in the past had a genuine concern for our playerbase - we listened intently to your wishes and had content especially made to keep you, the gamer entertained. We realize our training system was a bit boring in the past so we had the option of training with an inactive account. However, this is now going to disappear. The more users we have, the less each user is worth to us, particularly his or her opinion. We're sick and tired of hearing all your whining so the bonuses you used to get to stay in this game are gonna go away, that's for being ungrateful. And if you cancel your subscription - we won't miss you, in fact with you gone it just means less whiners. We're not sure if we will make less or more money from this, but good riddance if you quit EVE because of this removal of training with an inactive account."
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Annaphera
Minmatar
Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:41:00 -
[1986]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...
Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.
The thing here though, Annaphera, is that people can still train a skill but the trade off is they can't play without paying. Unfortunatly there are those who abuse it to farm isk.
No...the minute you stop paying for WoW, rest XP stops. Not to mention that there is a sizable percentage of the population that can't get rest XP, and so get no benefit at all (any toon with max level). Makes Eve look pretty good by comparison.
In all seriousness - I know you can't play without paying, what I want to know is why it seems to be viewed as an entitlement that you gain any benefit at all without paying. NO other game allows that. Eve did, but now it's gone too far, and they are going to have to stop.
I can understand people being disappointed, and even a bit of irritation at the short notice, but I can't understand the sheer level of rage over this. If every ad you saw while browsing the web listed this as a selling point, or even mentioned it at all, I'd get it. If CCP mentioned it in their 'Power of 2' promotion page as something they thought you should do with a second account, the emotions here would be understandable. Instead, it's a few words buried in the player's guide. CCP has the right to change game function in any way they like, when ever they like; most of those changes will mess with something in the players' guide. The players guide doesn't list or comment on intent. Why has no one ever accused them of lying for it before? Not that it is lying, but why is it carted out and held out as proof that CCP lies only now?
Its the sheer magnitude of the reaction that baffles me.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:41:00 -
[1987]
Originally by: Tag Ibby
Serious Question CCP.
Did you talk to a lawyer before doing this?
Pretty sure it was a lawyer they talked to.
Because it wasn't a DBA.
It wasn't an economist.
It wasn't someone in marketing.
It wasn't someone that plays the game.
They can legally do this, if you dispute this, you need to study law more. All you pay for is the right to pay them. They don't even have to have the server available for you to login, ever.
There is nothing wrong with them doing this from a legal point of view.
Every other point of view however.........
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:41:00 -
[1988]
Introduce multiple account discount for your loyal customers!
'ghost-training' will be reduced by 50% since people can actually afford to have multiple aco****s running!
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:42:00 -
[1989]
Since I started playing Eve real life issues combined with the fact that I sometimes just need a break from the game have caused me to put my subscription on hold several times. Because of this "Ghost training" was one of my favorite features of the game. I could put a long skill in the oven and have something to look forward to when I came back.
On more than one occasion, having something new to try out is what drew me back into the game. I am certain I would not have reactivated my account had this feature (Yes, Feature!) not been in place. In fact, I probably would not have started playing in the fist place.
As of a few months ago, my main is on a year sub (which I'm starting to regret) but my alt is not. If training that character is to become more expensive, I may have to let the account go.
Lately Ive had little desire to play Eve. CCP has been busy making ham handed changes and ignoring their customers. Now they have clearly demonstrated a willingness to screw their customers over and lie about their reasons for doing so. This kinda bull***t just kills my appetite for the game.
Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew! |
LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:43:00 -
[1990]
May this picture echo throughtout the time forever.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:43:00 -
[1991]
I guess the next thing they will introduce is a deletion of accounts that are not active for more than a month!
A sure way to lose customers, which seems to be their plan anyway. They want to ruin their economy? It would look bad if CCP was the only company in Iceland not close to financial ruin!
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Vietone
Gallente
Inherently Risky Schemes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:45:00 -
[1992]
Some people here make no rational on why they shouldn't remove this bug. Yes its a bug, its something that I didnt even know about and it is unfair. Why should people who dont pay gain skillpoints the same as people who do?
When did they ever advertise it? Cause its definitely not listed in any obvious place or on any of their game ads. Therefore, they never did intend it to be a feature for people to get the game for. If I had known that I could have trained Industrial V for my character or Exhumer V without paying, sure, I might have done it but I didnt know about it because of the fact that they never advertised it.
So people want a solution? Fine let people continue to ghost train, but instead of training at their normal rate, make it so they train only 10% of their skillpoint they would normally get if their character was active. Make it so that every skill takes 10x longer than it would if an account is not paid for. That seems more fair if people want to ghost train. Make it so that 28 day Battleship 5 skill takes 280 days if they decide to ghost train it.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:45:00 -
[1993]
Next they remove market orders from player who are inactive and then they remove ability to buy game time with isk.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:45:00 -
[1994]
Originally by: Annaphera
CCP has the right to change game function in any way they like, when ever they like; most of those changes will mess with something in the players' guide. The players guide doesn't list or comment on intent. Why has no one ever accused them of lying for it before? Not that it is lying, but why is it carted out and held out as proof that CCP lies only now?
Its the sheer magnitude of the reaction that baffles me.
Obviously they have that right. I don't dispute that. They can do anything with the game, it is theirs. We don't own it. We just pay to continue to maybe once in a while think about being allowed to login.
They're lying not in the players guide, but in their reasons for making the change.
You need to wake up and pay attention if you think this is the first, or even fiftieth time they have lied to their player base and treated us like idiots. Because either they think we are, or they are.
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xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:46:00 -
[1995]
Wrangler i should state that you all need to read this. Seriously after reading this shit i wish i didnt renew my acct for a year. Its bull shit man plain and simple. Do i blame you? No. But this does upset me, its obviously NOT a bug and is a FEATURE there is no denying it. This is why i miss Tomb, he was hardcore didn't care who he ****ed off in the process and always stuck to his vision of EvE... Whomever made this decision only cares about your wallet not your community, and i understand the wallet is an issue but face reality stuff like this makes you look bad.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
Player Guide
Originally by: Player Guide
How to Train Skills
You already have some skills when you start a new character. To take those to the next level, open your character sheet (go to the upper picture on the left menu bar) and go to the Skills section. Right-click on the skill you want to train and select Train to Level X. There is also a Settings menu, which gives you different options. One of the options here is Show All Skills, which will display all the skills available in game in your sheet. If you select this option, you will see some skills with a green check mark and others with a red cross in your character sheet. The green check mark indicates that you have the prerequisites to train the skill; the red cross shows that there are still some skills you have to train before being able to acquire this particular skill.
The skills that you don't already have in your character sheet will have to be bought from the market. They are sold by ingame factions controlled by Non Player Characters (NPCs), and also re-sold by players. Sometimes, skill books are loot drops on missions, too. Some race specific skills only get sold in the space of that particular faction, and when they are sold outside the area, they are often more expensive. Therefore, if you need a Gallente skill, for example, it is advisable to check how much it is being sold for in Gallente space. After you have bought a skill, it will show up in your hangar, where you can train it via the right-click command.
You will only have to buy a skill book once - it can be trained to the next level without having to buy a new book.
Some skills can't be trained on trial accounts. Those skills are marked in the Description tab of the info on the skill book.
Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
There is no skill point cap in EVE. You will most probably also not reach the point where you have trained all skills available, since new ones are added once in a while, and there is also a huge amount of them available. However, it is possible to max out all the skills in a certain category.
You can only train one character per account and one skill per character at the same time, but it is possible to train several ones, one after another.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:46:00 -
[1996]
active subscription request:
http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
It looks like over the year that the population is climbing not declining, but after this news we'll see
linkage |
Mohenna
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:46:00 -
[1997]
Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33
Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:47:00 -
[1998]
Originally by: Vietone
Some people here make no rational on why they shouldn't remove this bug. Yes its a bug, its something that I didnt even know about and it is unfair. Why should people who dont pay gain skillpoints the same as people who do?
When did they ever advertise it? Cause its definitely not listed in any obvious place or on any of their game ads. Therefore, they never did intend it to be a feature for people to get the game for. If I had known that I could have trained Industrial V for my character or Exhumer V without paying, sure, I might have done it but I didnt know about it because of the fact that they never advertised it.
So people want a solution? Fine let people continue to ghost train, but instead of training at their normal rate, make it so they train only 10% of their skillpoint they would normally get if their character was active. Make it so that every skill takes 10x longer than it would if an account is not paid for. That seems more fair if people want to ghost train. Make it so that 28 day Battleship 5 skill takes 280 days if they decide to ghost train it.
too extreme make it to the reasonal numbers
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:47:00 -
[1999]
And yet you, CCP, removed the 30-day GTC's making it HARDER for people to stay in the game. This is idiotic at best.
~Solo
Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Pirate Coalition (Yar?) |
Weggla
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:48:00 -
[2000]
thanks for making my consideration of restarting to pay for eve again so easy. Goodbye, hope your bank account will "balance" too.
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CowsCANBark
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:49:00 -
[2001]
http://www.ccp.is/press/investors.asp
Don't like this change? Place a call and complain to the board of directors:
Vilhjßlmur ¦orsteinsson - Tel: +354 551 7102 (Iceland)
Birgir Mßr Ragnarsson - Tel: +44 207 647 1543 (United Kingdom)
David P. Fialkow - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Sigur=ur +lafsson - Tel: +354 414 6000 (Iceland)
Reynir Har=arson - Tel: +354 540 9100 (Iceland)
Isaac Kato - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Navigator if you don't want us to post personal information take it off your website, this is the same thing as saying, here send an email to us and we'll help you out. These guys are the ones who decide how your company runs so we have all the right to contact them about how us, the consumer, would like to see it work.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:49:00 -
[2002]
inviting all unsadisfied player to bring their mains and alts on lag fest to jita.
manifastacion is good way of showing how unsadisfied you are.Bring remot reping moduls and remot reping dronse.2000 unhapy users and 10000 reping dronse looks like nice protest to me.
Im on my way to jita.
See u there
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Saladin
Minmatar
Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:50:00 -
[2003]
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but here goes.
I played a few MMOs before EvE, and if the account went inactive there was no garantee any of your characters or your stuff stayed in the db after a few weeks. It was only 3 years into EvE that I learned that skills train while offline. Limiting skill training to paying customers makes total sense and it was the way I assumed it worked.
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James Malice
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2004]
And I was planning on getting a second account too... you know... when you said that ghost training wasn't a bug...
Effin capitalist dogs.
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Annaphera
Minmatar
Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2005]
Originally by: Venus Einstein
Originally by: Sonao
Originally by: Avon
Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
It has been ninja-ed now!
Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account).
Thanks guys!
So here we are ccp SHITS at us, not even waiting until this tread explodes
or the patch is done
First time the light comes, before the fire burns
MUHAHAAAAAAA (any Lehman Bros banker hired at CCP the last weeks????)
Ye gods...get a clue. The thread has already exploded. Now, please re-read the change to the guide. A ninja-change would make the guide look like inactive training never was allowed - something like "Skills continue training even if you are logged off." Instead, they used language that makes it sound like ghost training used to work, but now doesn't. Even if you don't read it that way, it's at least mentioned, and specifically states that it doesn't work now. WTF do you want from them?
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Iggy H
Artifex Celestia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2006]
Ok, I can understand why you are doing this from a business perspective. Personally, I have multiple accounts that are ALL actively paid for, so I have not been able to "partake" of ghost training unless I forget to enter a GTC in time and lapse for a day here or there.. (yes, I think that CCP should allow training to continue for say somewhere between 2-5 days after your account expires, or possible send you a "reminder" e-mail or something)
My other concern is that there are a number of other things that currently continue to happen on Ghost accounts.
1) Data Cores. Yep, you still get data-cores, so if you are gone for a year or so, you get to cash in on data cores when you didn't pay for them
2) Market Buy / Sell orders - These also stay.. Again, I would ask for a grace period of a few days so that users don't need to re-enter all their trades if they miss the re-sub deadline. However if you are going to be fair, all market orders for a un-subbed account should also go away.
I'm also sure that there are other things I'm missing, but if you are going to disable training because they are not paying, make sure you apply it evenly across all aspects of the game.
Thanks!
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SetInEdill
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2007]
Account management is down.
https://secure.eve-online.com/AccountManMenu.aspx
Stop deleting accounts =)
Stop it!!!!1111oneone
lol, just lol
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:52:00 -
[2008]
Originally by: Tara Yang
Which we all know is utter CR@P. There is now maintenance done on that. They just don't want people making irrational decisions.
Seems a very convenient coincidence 
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:52:00 -
[2009]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
active subscription request:
http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
It looks like over the year that the population is climbing not declining, but after this news we'll see
PCU for the year was in March, looks like a decline since then to me. 42711 then, 39317 PCU in the last month. I'm betting the subscription numbers have down turned a lot more. Word economics, 60 day GTCs, the game. etc etc.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:53:00 -
[2010]
Originally by: Annaphera
In all seriousness - I know you can't play without paying, what I want to know is why it seems to be viewed as an entitlement that you gain any benefit at all without paying. NO other game allows that.
The way WoW is setup makes it a lot easier to catch up if you jump in for a month or two to see how things are going. You get better gear easier than those who had to do attunements and stuff months ago, you can get PLed by people etc. If you return to EVE without ghost training you're looking at the same boring months of training you did when you left, at least now you can return to a char with a shiny new ship to fly if you set Cruiser V before leaving.
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