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Heun zero
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Posted - 2008.10.16 00:02:00 -
[1]
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if someone could help me out with a rough estimate on the break even point of training the advanced learnings skills, so I can consider whether or not it is worth it to train them.
Assuming I have all the basic learning skills, including learning itself at 5, and have +5 implants. I already have the advanced learning skills to 4. And with this I have the following stats: intelligence: 25 Perception: 22 Willpower 25 Memory 24
What I would like to know is how long it will take me to break even, on training the advanced learning skills from 4 to 5.
It will take me somwhere between 10 days and 19H for the shortest, and 11 D and 13H for the longest advanced learning skill to skill to train from 4 to 5.
Any response will be appreciated
thx in advance
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Heun zero
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Posted - 2008.10.16 00:02:00 -
[2]
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if someone could help me out with a rough estimate on the break even point of training the advanced learnings skills, so I can consider whether or not it is worth it to train them.
Assuming I have all the basic learning skills, including learning itself at 5, and have +5 implants. I already have the advanced learning skills to 4. And with this I have the following stats: intelligence: 25 Perception: 22 Willpower 25 Memory 24
What I would like to know is how long it will take me to break even, on training the advanced learning skills from 4 to 5.
It will take me somwhere between 10 days and 19H for the shortest, and 11 D and 13H for the longest advanced learning skill to skill to train from 4 to 5.
Any response will be appreciated
thx in advance
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.10.16 00:24:00 -
[3]
There's a zillion truths to this. First thing, there's no way to tell exactly what skills you're going to train and hence what attributes you're going to use. Nor do you know what skills will appear.
Secondly - here's the pie.
If you have 22 in an attribute(per), and train it to 23 through training advanced learning 5, you increase your training rate at Perception primary, willpower secondary(example) by (23+25/2)-(22+25/2) a factor of 1,0289855072463768115942028985507. or 2.89%.
If it takes you 11Days 13hours (or 277 hours) to train these 2.89%, you could have spent this time training other skills instead. So 277/0.028985.... = 9833.5 hours or 409 Days 17 hours and 30 minutes of training more Perception/Willpower skills. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 742157
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Random5154
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Posted - 2008.10.16 03:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: NoNah 409 Days 17 hours and 30 minutes of training more Perception/Willpower skills.
409 days per Advanced Learning V is a serious investment to just break-even. Another thing to remember is after 409 days you are effectively the same pilot as the person that didn't train Adv. Learning V, no better. It's only after that period that you start gradually pulling ahead. Let's assume at that stage you training a fair number of level V skills - it'll take another 409 days to be a single level V skill ahead. After 818 days of EVE, I'm not sure 1 skill is going to make a huge difference, especially considering the risk of 0.0 and keeping those +5's plugged in all the time ;)
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Stephen HB
Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 04:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: NoNah 409 Days 17 hours and 30 minutes of training more Perception/Willpower skills.
409 days per Advanced Learning V is a serious investment to just break-even. Another thing to remember is after 409 days you are effectively the same pilot as the person that didn't train Adv. Learning V, no better. It's only after that period that you start gradually pulling ahead. Let's assume at that stage you training a fair number of level V skills - it'll take another 409 days to be a single level V skill ahead. After 818 days of EVE, I'm not sure 1 skill is going to make a huge difference, especially considering the risk of 0.0 and keeping those +5's plugged in all the time ;)
Whether or not you have implants installed makes zero difference to the break-even on advanced learning skills to level 5. Read this thread by Tripoli for a mathematical explanation of the break-even point. ----------
Character creation guide.
Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.10.16 06:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Stephen HB
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: NoNah 409 Days 17 hours and 30 minutes of training more Perception/Willpower skills.
409 days per Advanced Learning V is a serious investment to just break-even. Another thing to remember is after 409 days you are effectively the same pilot as the person that didn't train Adv. Learning V, no better. It's only after that period that you start gradually pulling ahead. Let's assume at that stage you training a fair number of level V skills - it'll take another 409 days to be a single level V skill ahead. After 818 days of EVE, I'm not sure 1 skill is going to make a huge difference, especially considering the risk of 0.0 and keeping those +5's plugged in all the time ;)
Whether or not you have implants installed makes zero difference to the break-even on advanced learning skills to level 5. Read this thread by Tripoli for a mathematical explanation of the break-even point.
On the contrary, they have very much so effect on the so called point of break-even. They make all the advanced learning skills appear less appealing, and the Learning skill a bit more appealing.
That said, the attributes provided in OP were used in my figure, and presumably including implants. The figures in Tripolis post are based off his alt, using +3 implants and a somewhat balanced(Not perfectly, but somewhat) attribute spread. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 886196
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Stephen HB
Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 11:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: NoNah On the contrary, they have very much so effect on the so called point of break-even. They make all the advanced learning skills appear less appealing, and the Learning skill a bit more appealing.
That said, the attributes provided in OP were used in my figure, and presumably including implants. The figures in Tripolis post are based off his alt, using +3 implants and a somewhat balanced(Not perfectly, but somewhat) attribute spread.
Wrong. While the easy and cheap access to +4/+5 implants has decreased the relative attraction of lv5 advanced learning skills, this has no relevance to the mathematical calculation of break even. Neither do your original attributes. Assuming you train all advanced learnings to level 5, mathematical breakeven is at ~3.6 years of training, without exception. Only if you restrict your training of advanced learnings and subsequent skills will breakeven occur earlier or later. Read over Tripoli's math in my linked thread, the fact that is was done 3+ years ago doesn't change it's accuracy. ----------
Character creation guide.
Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins.
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Heun zero
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Posted - 2008.10.16 12:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: NoNah There's a zillion truths to this. First thing, there's no way to tell exactly what skills you're going to train and hence what attributes you're going to use. Nor do you know what skills will appear.
Secondly - here's the pie.
If you have 22 in an attribute(per), and train it to 23 through training advanced learning 5, you increase your training rate at Perception primary, willpower secondary(example) by (23+25/2)-(22+25/2) a factor of 1,0289855072463768115942028985507. or 2.89%.
If it takes you 11Days 13hours (or 277 hours) to train these 2.89%, you could have spent this time training other skills instead. So 277/0.028985.... = 9833.5 hours or 409 Days 17 hours and 30 minutes of training more Perception/Willpower skills.
Originally by: Stephen HB Read [url="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=114321" this thread by Tripoli[/url] for a mathematical explanation of the break-even point.
these 2 pretty much answer my question. I dont know if I will be playing EVE nearly long enough to invest in the advanced learning skills so I'll put them off for now
Thx for the replies
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Random5154
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Posted - 2008.10.16 13:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Stephen HB Whether or not you have implants installed makes zero difference to the break-even on advanced learning skills to level 5. Read this thread by Tripoli for a mathematical explanation of the break-even point.
My point wasn't that keeping +5's plugged was important to the break-even. My point was that it's difficult to ensure you earn maximum skill points at all time, and 406 days for a single point is a huge investment. If I knew I was going to be around in EVE for 4 years I would probably consider doing Intelligence and Perception, don't think I would touch the rest.
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Patrice Macmahon
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:10:00 -
[10]
In my opinion, the lower the stat is, the greater the benifit of training a skill point.
I.E. Your perception is a 22, so moving it to 23 would give you roughtly a 3% boost in that attribute compared to your other higher learning stats. If you plan on investing in navigational or gunnery skills, it would be worth it in my opinion.
For the level 5's, I say use them to boost your lowest stats, youll see the largest increase in time saved, and let the others stay at 4.
The Intakis have an obligatin to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
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Shane Q
Tri-Mining Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:05:00 -
[11]
Train what you need to train. Plan your skill tree and incorporate your learning skills into the tree as needed. If I remember correctly evemon will even do this for you by showing what would be the most efficient training path, including learning skills.
An estimated 55 days of training in order move all lvl 4 adv learning skills to lvl 5 is a huge investment. Lol, that is like Capital ships 5.
You really wont miss lvl 5 advanced learning skills. Go with lvl 4 and spend some extra isk on +5's.
BTW, I have maxed learning skills & +5'S.....i JUST DONT WANT YOU NOOBS CATCHING UP TO ME "LIFE EITHER SHRINKS OR EXPANDS IN PROPORTION TO ONES COURAGE" |
Gonzo Hadron
Gracious Bodily Harm
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Posted - 2008.10.17 21:51:00 -
[12]
I've trained them all to 5, but only because I just around from implant to implant. Sometimes in +4s sometimes HG or LG slaves etc, so the added points are beneficial to me. If I was stuck in a set of +5s in empire the whole time I don't think I would have bothered.
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