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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:15:00 -
[1]
It's been a long road, getting from there to here, but the QEN is finally here. Dr.EyjoG and his team has worked hard and you can read about it, and of course the QEN, in his blog: Quarterly Economic Newsletter, 4th Quarter 2008 is finally here.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:23:00 -
[2]
wooot! finally! ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:32:00 -
[3]
\o/ and the next ones soon I hope -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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jbob2000
Gallente Pernicious Creed
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:01:00 -
[4]
Grr... PDFs? Cmon... ________________________________
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:01:00 -
[5]
Very nice! Nice pixies too.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:05:00 -
[6]
Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar |
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Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:07:00 -
[7]
Good stuff in here Dr.EyjoG!
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:11:00 -
[8]
Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated. Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated. Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
MDD
Very good point! And agreed!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated. Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
MDD
Very good point! And agreed!
indeed
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:26:00 -
[11]
I made a quick scan of the report, and have a suggestion for the editor for future ones: Please use consistent comma & period notations in the numbers. Sometimes period is used for the thousands separator (European style), sometimes period is used for the decimal point (US style). Likewise for the comma. There's even one paragraph where they are mixed in the same paragraph:
Quote: In total, there were 14.777 new Hulks built during Q1 2008. Some 6.122 Hulks were destroyed, resulting in a net increase of 8.655 ships. However, the kill-to-production ratio for Hulks was 41%, whereas other mining ships had kill ratios between 13% and 36%, indicating that Hulks were the prime target. With an estimated average value of 100 million ISK per Hulk, the total value of destroyed property was a staggering 6 trillion ISK. For comparison, the overall trade value of all EVE markets ranges between 2.0 û 2.5 trillion per day.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:26:00 -
[12]
Woot ! Finally !! _________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.60 // Angel Cartel +7.31 // Minmatar Republic -8.56 // Gallente Federation -9.71
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Shaun Livingstone
iMine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:33:00 -
[13]
Comment from RL mate when I showed him the QEN: "That one goes to 11".
Agree with previous poster tho, a simple "sorry, won't make it on time, busy busy busy" would've saved the forums a lot of grief.
Of course, then they would've just *****ed about someting else so I guess you can't win. --
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:35:00 -
[14]
HAHAHAHA 6 trillion in destroyed hulks
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Muscaat
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:40:00 -
[15]
This just in: a number of ships have been destroyed outside Jita 4-4 this afternoon. Pilots talk of being struck by unknown vessels, described by witnesses as "porcine".
Seriously: Thank you, Dr.EyjoG - hopefully we won't have to wait quite so long for the next one!
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Trypho
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:20:00 -
[16]
Thanks for the fine report! ---
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:24:00 -
[17]
Edited by: DaDutchDude on 16/10/2008 16:24:10 First off: Finally! I'm glad you're back on track and have added staff to support your efforts. I don't think anyone should underestimate the importance of your work, since EVE Online is the only game where a large scale player dominated market plays such an integral part of game play, and investment in that area should reflect its importance.
I'm hoping the next QENs follow quickly, because this one contains old and therefore less relevant information. I'm not sure what the process towards creating the QEN is, but I would have preferred Q3 to have been published first. I hope you recognize that it's better to have poor info now then good info months overdue, since I have to make my decisions now with what little information I have and don't have the luxury of waiting until I have the full story.
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EyeCeeYou
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:31:00 -
[18]
Edited by: EyeCeeYou on 16/10/2008 16:32:17 Thanks for the report - very interesting!
Would it be possible to get a short statement on current trend when reviewing the various info? Just a 1 liner like here it could be "2Q 2008 numbers appear to hold the trend" or "Preliminary 2Q 2008 numbers indicate a possible reversal, with sales appearing to be decreasing." Something. Anything.
Minor typo at page 8, reproduced below.
For the low end minerals this drop is across all mineral types (tritanium, pyerite, isogen and mexallon) but relatviely most in tritanium that drops by 28% in February 2008 compared to January.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: 'Report' On average there are just over 2 characters per account, which means that the number of active characters in-game is approaching 500.000.
Could someone try to explain to him that these alt slots are often used to just mess around with character generation. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't then go on to base later sections of the report on it making their results meaningless.
Other than that the reports are quite interesting, thanks for taking the time to produce this even if it is rather late.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:44:00 -
[20]
Good to see this one out and great to hear that you're on track with resourcing to deliver the remaining QEN!
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
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Qob
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Posted - 2008.10.16 17:08:00 -
[21]
The analysis should have subtracted the T1 barges used to build the T2 exhumers. This would have given a better picture of the mining barge market.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.16 17:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: 'Report' On average there are just over 2 characters per account, which means that the number of active characters in-game is approaching 500.000.
Could someone try to explain to him that these alt slots are often used to just mess around with character generation. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't then go on to base later sections of the report on it making their results meaningless.
Other than that the reports are quite interesting, thanks for taking the time to produce this even if it is rather late.
Iirc this was already mentioned after the first QEN and remedied by adding a minimum SP requirement to the selection process. So these are alts that have trained a bit.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.16 17:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Qob The analysis should have subtracted the T1 barges used to build the T2 exhumers. This would have given a better picture of the mining barge market.
He does mention that 70% of the covetors are used to build hulks.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Pela Fharun
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Posted - 2008.10.16 17:41:00 -
[24]
Is there a page where all the quarterly newsletters are visible from - all I have seen are direct links to the newsletters themselves.
Thanks
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.10.16 17:56:00 -
[25]
Great report, glad to hear that there will be more and that you will be communicating your schedule to us, the QEN's are actually an economic tool; if we can rely on regular reports (maybe we could even agree on certain data that could be regularly released as part of these reports) than it really helps to take the EVE economy to that next level of realism and dynamisism. --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Galmar Grief
Caldari Giants in the Playground
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Posted - 2008.10.16 17:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Galmar Grief on 16/10/2008 17:57:29 Page 8:
"relatviely".
Someone offer the good doctor a dictionary. Or a spellchecker.
Since we're at it:
Haradgrim, you need one, too. Dynamisism? rotfl.
- - - UI Suggestion for Missiles - Can we please turn the damn things off / disable the shake? |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:04:00 -
[27]
Dear Dr.EnyoG,
The position T2 BPOs have within the EVE market has been a bone of contention since the introduction of invention. In general, one can say that because of the high and continuous investments needed for invention (not needed for T2 BPO owners), and because of the relative efficiency that can be achieved through research, T2 BPO owners can always outbid inventors, or, depending on the specific market, will always make more profit than inventors.
Overall, this leads to a loss of efficiency in the market as the equilibrium of the T2 market is not Pareto optimal: a dead weight loss, or the excess burden of the T2 BPO holders' monopoly. Needless to say, it also has an adverse effect on the equal opportunity for all players to participate in the T2 market.
My questions are as follow: will the position of T2 BPOs within the T2 market be addressed in a future Quarterly Economic Newsletter, and if so, when may that be, and will it include measures to be used to address the situation (as was the case with the shuttle refining situation)?
Given the urgent need for such measures, and keeping in mind the general format of the Quarterly Economic Newsletters, I, and I believe many with me, would also welcome a Dev Blog about the situation is well as an alternative.
I think I speak for many (industrialists) when I say that resolution of the T2 BPO 'situation' is by now long overdue (much more so than this newsletter) and that the disruption this has caused to the T2 market is a matter of great resentment among those that have invested so much time and effort in invention.
On another note, I welcome the return of the Quarterly Economic Newsletters, have read this with great interest, and look forward to more. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Fastercart
Gallente Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Chribba
Quote: (believe it or not, there are reports of a Dreadnought sitting in high-sec asteroid belts û mining!)
Screenshot or it didn't happen. d: The next QEN should have a picture of this rumored Dreadnought in action. (: __ Rorqual AKA Mega Maid
Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow. |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Fastercart Screenshot or it didn't happen. d: The next QEN should have a picture of this rumored Dreadnought in action. (:
Setup screen
Zoomed in shot of mining laser on dreadnought
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:58:00 -
[30]
Nice newletter.
I have an observation about it: while the number of subscriptions increase steadily, since 6 months or more the number of peak users online seem to remain stable.
That mean that players, on average, spend less time connected.
This can be interpreted several ways, but I think the two main factors are:
- A relative lack of novelties. I played Eve for 4 years now, and I think only the 200mm, 350mm rails and heavy assault missiles have ever been added in all this time. Now about ships. While new ships have been added frequently, you see a surprising lack of them used in pvp. Electronic attack frigs are shunned because of their fragility, Marauders because of their building cost.
I think Eve need new medium warships, from destroyers to battlecruisers.
- The 0.0 landscape. It is human nature, when planning an offensive or trying to resist an incoming offensive, to seek advantage over the opponent, which mean having superior numbers. That mean factions always get bigger and bigger, and well, you know the result. Lag, lag, huge lag, and lots of 0.0 regions are relatively devoid of life. Because the players holding it are busy fighting elsewhere, and because large entities can't tolerate smaller ones unless they're allies/renters.
I don't see this as a healthy situation for the game. But, because it would be going against human nature, the steps taken to solve this, if CCP wish to do it, will have to be extremes. How to stop too many players from siding together? The only way I see to do it would be to put a cap on alliance size, and removing any ingame way from one alliance to distinguish one neutral from another in 0.0. No alliance tag, no show info, no standings, no local communication. While this is indeed extreme, try to imagine 5 minutes how 0.0 would be like with those changes. I honestly think Eve would be more fun... ------------------------------------------
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:08:00 -
[31]
This data would have been very useful 6 months ago
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:14:00 -
[32]
A few notes on graphs presented:
- The continually and significantly increasing 'demand' of the 1mn afterburner I can surely be attributed to missions. However, the fact that people are using afterburners in missioning setups cannot explain this massive volume alone - especially considering that only new players actually have a need for them. The vast majority of players already upgrades to a cruiser after becoming able to do lvl 2 missions, and therefore I'd say that despite the constantly growing subscriber numbers, the amount of people who are doing lvl 1 missions and using 1mn afterburners is in fact pretty stable.
Instead, the huge volume is more likely to be a direct result of mission running itself. Even level 4 missions include tons of small NPC ships which, upon being shot down, might drop 1mn afterburners. As EVE's population increases, more people run missions, thus more and more 1mn afterburners drop.
And why are they then traded on the market? Because there is a reprocessing industry for mission loot. Basically, mission runners do not want to bother with maximizing their monetary gain from loot sales. They look for good prices, sure, but they won't be bothered too much if they don't squeeze out the last few hidden percentages of profit margin. The time they spent doing that, they could have made ten times the amount of money running another mission instead!
So missioning loot like 1mn afterburners are pushed onto the market in bulk. And there are plenty of individuals that maxed out their reprocessing skills who fight a merciless buy order overcutting war in the popular missioning constellations. They are the ones who generate the huge demand for 1mn afterburner I's, and they do it for no other reason than to take what they bought, reprocess it, and sell the minerals for a profit. I'm sure that the behavior of trading increased amounts of missioning loot on the market just for reprocessing purposes is a significant contributor to many of your graphs and trends.
There's another noticeable spike in the second half of 2007 which might have to do with invention and using up afterburner I's to make afterburner II's.
It would be interesting to see in detail what happened in 2005 to jumpstart the sudden demand of afterburners though.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 16/10/2008 19:22:39
eyjo, the deflation appears to be a result of mineral abundance, both in terms of current mineral distribution and refining of junk mission loot. before this deflation occured, prices were generally dictated by BPO cartels as the bottleneck, but with invention they went into a freefall.
two things that need to be done is a balancing pass on mineral distribution to make regions less self-sufficient, and a heavier penalty on mineral reprocessing that is less affected by standing. resources should also be made more scarace in order for attrition to be a more significant factor in warfare.
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Letrange
Minmatar Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:22:00 -
[34]
Question for Dr. E:
Will one of the future QEN cover the volumes of minerals refined from ore vs volume refined from mission running? This is relevant in that one of the major requests/ideas that keeps bouncing around revolve around changing the T1 module drops in some way to get some more production involvement (i.e. either reducing the mineral contribution of mission running vs mining or changing metalevel 1-4 modules from being drop->market only to being drop->production->market in some way)
One of the things that would add to the discussions on such things would be knowing how much is currently refined module salvage drops vs how much is being added thru mining activities. Obviously the real trick would be being able to tell the difference between a module melted from loot and one melted from manufacture (those usually being to facilitate mineral transport).
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:07:00 -
[35]
while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered -sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Wrathraker
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ishina Fel There's another noticeable spike in the second half of 2007 which might have to do with invention and using up afterburner I's to make afterburner II's.
It would be interesting to see in detail what happened in 2005 to jumpstart the sudden demand of afterburners though.
This is actually easy to explain but not in this thread. Eve-mail me in game if you wish and we can talk about it then.
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Tara Yang
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:47:00 -
[37]
I like these QEN reports. Always good to have some more insight in the economics of this game. Hope we get a next one a bit sooner as Q4 2008 has already started.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:52:00 -
[38]
I love these things.
But I found myself continually drawn to the screenshots in there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but alot of them seem to have objects in space that look as if they've been updated to Trinity.
c/d? ----------
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Wrathraker
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated. Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
Agreed. This whole thing with CCP doing the "easier to see forgiveness then to ask permission" stuff has to stop. Either put them out on time, like you were hired for, or post as to the reason for delay. Your being paid to do this, get the job done or be replaced. Yes, it sounds harsh but in any other job environment you would of been fired.
Originally by: Shadowsword Nice newletter.
I have an observation about it: while the number of subscriptions increase steadily, since 6 months or more the number of peak users online seem to remain stable.
That mean that players, on average, spend less time connected.
This can be interpreted several ways...
This is in fact due to many several things that are not touched at all in this report. The largest being the removal of the 30 & 90 day time codes. Since this report is late and should of come out before that was really done, I can overlook it. For NOW. I do expect to see it in the next one though. Between the removal of the codes and the removal of ghost training I am positive you will see the number of active pilots online go down and of course all markets to adjust accordingly.
Even though 2008 has been strong for Eve in general, these last decisions by CCP are going to reverse the positive trends that we have seen in the last few years.
Additional points:
#1Half of the active players in game are second character slots which are used as scouts to look out for the other players. They should not be counted as additional players since we can only have one of those 3 slots active at any time. Having it created and being an actual subscriber is not true.
#2 Areas of 0.0 that see the most traffic is due to one reason. Cloning facilities. People NEED to go there and they will, if they can, go to the closest ones.
#3 Ice prices changed due to the preparation for factional warfare. Lots of alliances took down PoS's so they could participate in it. That, along with factional warfare itself, is the reason why prices have changed the way they did for the times mentioned this year vs last year. I am surprised that you did not come to that obvious conclusion. Later reports should show this in greater detail.
#4 Macro miners need to be added into the reports. A lot of the price fluctuations you are showing, especially the large ones, are due directly to CCP putting into effect the new stuff to combat the macro miners. If you look at the Dev blogs on when they do this, it works out to the same times that you see the changes in the markets that you are talking about.
In general, CCP affects the markets just as much, if not more, they the players do when you are looking at major market changes. If you see something that looks odd to you, look to CCP first, as most likely it is them that made it happen in the first place.
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Fastercart
Gallente Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Fastercart Screenshot or it didn't happen. d: The next QEN should have a picture of this rumored Dreadnought in action. (:
Setup screen
Zoomed in shot of mining laser on dreadnought
Psst. It was a joke to get them to put a picture of the Velsdnought in action in their next QEN...
Mums the word or they'll be onto me. __ Rorqual AKA Mega Maid
Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow. |
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.16 22:30:00 -
[41]
Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 16/10/2008 22:31:16
It is nothing short of cruel to publish all these shiny pictures so small and inside a PDF.
Nice QEN too. Your results about Procurers however raise the question how you handled Procurers that got turned into Skiffs. Because honestly, noone uses them, as you are just hours away from a Retriever and you can outmine them with pretty much anything short of a Rookie Ship. Same is true for the Covetor for some parts, as its training is far away from a Retriever but very close to a Hulk, though there are environments where one would prefer the Cov over a Hulk, so it isn't as bad as the Proc. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.10.16 22:38:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 16/10/2008 22:39:39
Quote:
At the same time, moon materials continued increasing in price, with promethium leading the charge at an average 26% increase across all regions.
Quote:
n February, there was a slight increase in the PPPI, as it rose from 59.5 to 60.2 (+1.3%). Data interfaces continued to decrease in value, but prototypes and datafiles increased somewhat between January and February. Other items in this index were relatively stable, except for raw moon material. The highflyer was again promethium (+47.6% price increase), but dysprosium increased as well, though considerably less (7.8%).
ugh the prices just keep getting worse for us T2 manufacturers who consume the advanced materials that require the two.
I'd kinda like to see dysprosium prices and promethium graphed on their own.
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Irogwai Senjyna
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Irogwai Senjyna on 17/10/2008 00:31:15
Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 16/10/2008 19:22:39
eyjo, the deflation appears to be a result of mineral abundance, both in terms of current mineral distribution and refining of junk mission loot. before this deflation occured, prices were generally dictated by BPO cartels as the bottleneck, but with invention they went into a freefall.
two things that need to be done is a balancing pass on mineral distribution to make regions less self-sufficient, and a heavier penalty on mineral reprocessing that is less affected by standing. resources should also be made more scarace in order for attrition to be a more significant factor in warfare.
Uuve, you have a point but forgot to mention the tremendous impact that macro miners have on the mineral price. It is no longer profitable for human players to mine high and low sec minerals.
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Bonvina
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Dear Dr.EnyoG,
... T2 BPO owners can always outbid inventors ...
... resolution of the T2 BPO 'situation' is by now long overdue (much more so than this newsletter) and that the disruption this has caused to the T2 market is a matter of great resentment among those that have invested so much time and effort in invention. ...
I fully agree. You really hit the spot. However, I fear that Dr. E. will face severe opposition inside CCP, with their day-1 players and mighty alliance mates sitting on those invaluable BPO treasures.
The T2 invention can not really unfold as long as BPOs are still there. So why does CCP still ruin experience for thousands of players who could enter invention careers, just because very few players were lucky in a lottery years ago? They had their fun and endless profit. Now its time for something new.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bonvina
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Dear Dr.EnyoG,
... T2 BPO owners can always outbid inventors ...
... resolution of the T2 BPO 'situation' is by now long overdue (much more so than this newsletter) and that the disruption this has caused to the T2 market is a matter of great resentment among those that have invested so much time and effort in invention. ...
I fully agree. You really hit the spot. However, I fear that Dr. E. will face severe opposition inside CCP, with their day-1 players and mighty alliance mates sitting on those invaluable BPO treasures.
The T2 invention can not really unfold as long as BPOs are still there. So why does CCP still ruin experience for thousands of players who could enter invention careers, just because very few players were lucky in a lottery years ago? They had their fun and endless profit. Now its time for something new.
I think the change lies more in changing invention than just castrating t2 bpos. bpcs with limited runs and -4/-4 base is just
and no I don't own any t2 bpos, I did invention for a while, but with nothing but a badger II, and somewhat limited funds, It was too much a pain in the ass. suppose I could get back in, but that would require a pos which would require more effort. I occasionally manufacture stuff, might do it a bit more often now that I have a freighter, although that would require some asset liquidation. have like 400mil in mins stockpiled at least
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Goumindong This data would have been very useful 6 months ago
You couldnt figure out there was an increase of mission runners and miners after the speed nerf dev blog? You couldnt figure out all these figures? I did and I'm not even that interested. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:34:00 -
[47]
You are capable of researching the t2 bpos to perfect. They literally produce at amazing rates. They are guarenteed to sell their product immediately if they price just below what any invention person could produce at.
To be fair. The invention fellows currently produce without having to calculate time and fuel into their system because there are research towers who run themselves on the premise of earning isk and fuel costs from research; ZZZ alliance for example. This leaves the free invention and copying open. So in the long run the only additional costs to the inventors are the -4/-4 vs perfect.
They claim volume... but that doesnt matter when you have a very low volume market. Such as cloaks or certain ammos or something.
Though the fix isnt nerfing the t2 bpos.
There should be an extremely rare decrypter only found in -0.9+ nullsec which can produce t2 bpos at like -100me-100pe. They can then research them to perfect.
Then boost the other decrypters appropriately. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Max Someone
Moonspud Tech
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:54:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Max Someone on 17/10/2008 09:54:10 for you guys talking about t2 bpos have a read of this
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Max Someone Edited by: Max Someone on 17/10/2008 09:54:10 for you guys talking about t2 bpos have a read of this
What part, the OP, or the four pages of comments utterly rubbishing his claims? -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:48:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 17/10/2008 10:49:30 Just one thing I want to point out about my stance with regards to T2 BPOs: I do not think they should be taken away without compensation. Some form or method of compensation is appropriate, and I don't even care if it is generous. However, the end result of the mechanism should be no more T2 BPOs. Only this will (finally) close the discussion on this subject, and provide an equal opportunity for all T2 industrialists.
The problem with the debate that's being going on about this, is that both sides do not have access to the information needed. Meaning that a lot of anecdotal data is spewed that cloud the issues at hand.
This is the reason why I would like to see T2 BPOs being discussed in a QEN or a DevBlog. With enough hard data, reasonable deduction from that data, and a clear decision from that deduction, I think that this issue can be put to rest before even more damage is done to the economy. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Pela Fharun Is there a page where all the quarterly newsletters are visible from - all I have seen are direct links to the newsletters themselves.
Thanks
The best way to do that is to click my Dev name and then you can see all Dev blogs linked to my name. There you can find each devblog for the QENs.
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Dear Dr.EnyoG,
The position T2 BPOs have within the EVE market .......
We plan on reporting more on the T2 market and T2 production in QEN Q3 2008(due in December) and QEN Q4 2008 (due in January 2009).
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Letrange Question for Dr. E:
Will one of the future QEN cover the volumes of minerals refined from ore vs volume refined from mission running?
We have been looking into this data over the last few months and might report on this in QEN Q4 in January. For the next QEN, to be published in November, we will focus on missions.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:58:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 17/10/2008 11:58:42
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
For gods sake don't start that idiotic T2 BPO debate in this thread.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Pela Fharun Is there a page where all the quarterly newsletters are visible from - all I have seen are direct links to the newsletters themselves.
Thanks
The best way to do that is to click my Dev name and then you can see all Dev blogs linked to my name. There you can find each devblog for the QENs.
Here is the direct link
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 16/10/2008 19:22:39
eyjo, the deflation appears to be a result of mineral abundance, both in terms of current mineral distribution and refining of junk mission loot. before this deflation occured, prices were generally dictated by BPO cartels as the bottleneck, but with invention they went into a freefall.
two things that need to be done is a balancing pass on mineral distribution to make regions less self-sufficient, and a heavier penalty on mineral reprocessing that is less affected by standing. resources should also be made more scarace in order for attrition to be a more significant factor in warfare.
I would add to this that the deflation is also due to the fact how easy it is to produce Tech 1 items which leads to very hard competition among the producers resulting in a buyers market for Tech 1 items. The Tech 2 items are a different story and hence we are planning on reporting on that separately in the future.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:59:00 -
[57]
late ... and not very interesting as it did cover very limited topics ...
I don't know why but I am always a bit dissapointed by the QENs ... There's always something wrong or missing ...
As a few posters already said:
1. mineral production from reprocessing vs mineral production from mining 2. T2 BPOs vs T2 invention 3. total population numbers (you still don't have a solid rule here despite numerous hints from players)
One minor note on pictures. If you have a section dedicated to a ship (like the mining barges and exhumers) please PLEASE use pictures of the subject ship, not just a generic render you found. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: adriaans while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: adriaans while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
maybe break the QEN into sections and assign each section to somebody :-) this way we have a solid structure and know who to blame/contact for feedback for the sections. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:39:00 -
[60]
Thanks, been waiting for this for quite some time ;)
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huxorator
Intergalactic Serenity Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Shadowsword Now about ships. While new ships have been added frequently, you see a surprising lack of them used in pvp. Electronic attack frigs are shunned because of their fragility, Marauders because of their building cost.
I think Eve need new medium warships, from destroyers to battlecruisers.
There are alot of ships in that range, incl. command ships, BC, HAC and others. The reason why they are flown less is the superiority of nano boats over conventional tank-fitted ships. This renders those ships pretty much useless in daily pvp. Hopefully we will get to know why the nano nerf was excluded from the Money Rise expansion as well. --- IGS Website | Killboard | Game-Time Cards |
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 14:57:00 -
[62]
Originally by: adriaans while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
For those of us unable to attend FANFEST this year (i.e. the vast majority of players), will you be posting a devblog on this topic during/after FANFEST?
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.10.17 15:25:00 -
[63]
i finally got around to reading it...
a) 223/d covetors built, 30/d lost ... so far so good b) 14777/30d = ~492 hulks/d produced
i don't see how that's possible...
and what about reprocessing all those cute "i mined it so i got it for free" empire orgies? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.17 15:41:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: adriaans while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
maybe break the QEN into sections and assign each section to somebody :-) this way we have a solid structure and know who to blame/contact for feedback for the sections.
Dumping all the raw data once a month would be nice. I like playing with spreadsheets.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Digital Anarchist
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 17:32:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider and what about reprocessing all those cute "i mined it so i got it for free" empire orgies?
Why exactly are you complaining about that?
------------------------ This space for rent |
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 17:53:00 -
[66]
Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 17/10/2008 17:54:46
Originally by: Roemy Schneider a) 223/d covetors built, 30/d lost ... so far so good b) 14777/30d = ~492 hulks/d produced
i don't see how that's possible...
It's completely possible if one has a stockpile of Covetors. What you should have asked is "I don't see how that's sustainable." Ans: It isn't. But the underlying problem is reading comprehension. The report states that 14,777 Hulks were produced over the reporting period, which is 1Q2008, which is 91 days, not 30 days. So 14,777/91 = 162 per day, which is under the net Covetor production rate of 193 per day.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 20:54:00 -
[67]
Tried to download it twice
"The file is damaged and could not be repaired"
That's Firefox. IE worked fine. ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.10.17 21:51:00 -
[68]
Originally by: huxorator
Originally by: Shadowsword Now about ships. While new ships have been added frequently, you see a surprising lack of them used in pvp. Electronic attack frigs are shunned because of their fragility, Marauders because of their building cost.
I think Eve need new medium warships, from destroyers to battlecruisers.
There are alot of ships in that range, incl. command ships, BC, HAC and others. The reason why they are flown less is the superiority of nano boats over conventional tank-fitted ships. This renders those ships pretty much useless in daily pvp. Hopefully we will get to know why the nano nerf was excluded from the Money Rise expansion as well.
QFT. Just because YOU can't shoot nano's in pvp doesn't mean that is the case.
EAS ships can be found all over pvp, they are great for roaming gangs.
Today I used a destroyer to own a ceptor sitting on a gate with his buddies.
BC's such as the myrm, cane, harb, and drake are seen ALL the time in pvp, something you obviously know nothing about.
PVP is fine, you need some lessons.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.17 22:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Dear Dr.EnyoG,
The position T2 BPOs have within the EVE market .......
We plan on reporting more on the T2 market and T2 production in QEN Q3 2008(due in December) and QEN Q4 2008 (due in January 2009).
Very good news. I, and I'm sure many inventors with me, will be looking forward to these QENs, hoping that they will lead to adjustments that set right what has been left simmering for a long time now.
I'm aware that this is not an easy subject/problem to address, but I'm confident that an answer benefiting all players and the game in the long run will be the result, even if that means facing the opposition of the few and priviledged. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Iss Mneur
Gallente ARK-CORP SATRAPY
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Posted - 2008.10.17 22:34:00 -
[70]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 16/10/2008 22:31:16
It is nothing short of cruel to publish all these shiny pictures so small and inside a PDF.
Nice QEN too. Your results about Procurers however raise the question how you handled Procurers that got turned into Skiffs. Because honestly, noone uses them, as you are just hours away from a Retriever and you can outmine them with pretty much anything short of a Rookie Ship. Same is true for the Covetor for some parts, as its training is far away from a Retriever but very close to a Hulk, though there are environments where one would prefer the Cov over a Hulk, so it isn't as bad as the Proc.
It is.
What is worse is the tiny graphs and charts at the end of the report.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.10.17 22:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 17/10/2008 11:58:42
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
For gods sake don't start that idiotic T2 BPO debate in this thread.
You only call it idiotic because you have T2 BPOs and want to milk that unfair advantage for as long as you can.
Also, as someone who doesn't seems to be able to grasp the concept of (market) PvP, I don't think you're in a position to call anything idiotic. Unless ofcourse you're self-applying that term. In which case, I'm inclined to agree.
For the rest of us though, you're agenda is rather transparent. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Puritalas Frame
Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2008.10.18 14:48:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Puritalas Frame on 18/10/2008 14:49:06 If you are going to look at T2 BPO's in a future report, some information I'd like to see would be a breakdown of the number of ship, module and ammo BPO's added to the game originally, number of BPO's still present, i.e. not destroyed, and of those still present the number owned by active subscription accounts.
You may also want to comment on how quite a number of inventors seem to fail to understand the concepts of opportunity cost and market research. Most of these points come up every time someone raises a post on T2 BPO's so a quick search of the forums will show you the oft repeated stances on them.
One final thing would be to state CCP's official view on what invention was to achieve. Again, this might help to steer future T2 BPO discussions into new ground rather than the same points being brought up each time. Salvage Upgrade Idea|Internal Slots |
Kendar
Gallente Disney inc
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:23:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Kendar on 18/10/2008 20:24:18 Could we get numers on how manny ships there are of each kind in eve as well? i would be very interested in seeing the numbers on capitals and super capitals
Not so interested in knowing about mining barges, im more interested in knowing the numbers on capitals and ammount destroyed
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:33:00 -
[74]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: adriaans while 'outdated' info, it was interesting, but i wish there was more covered
So do I. So much data - so little time. My future vision of this is that the players become more active in doing their own analysis. More on that on FANFEST!
any way we could get an export market history to file? we already have export market data. whole bunch of stuff I'm sure players could do with that
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 04:54:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
BC's such as the myrm, cane, harb, and drake are seen ALL the time in pvp, something you obviously know nothing about.
PVP is fine, you need some lessons.
FWIW, in 3 months I have yet to see a single one of those BCs in a roaming gang through our space. But I see Rapiers, Falcons, Arazus and Vagabonds multiple times a day flown by different reds. Even the one Stain guy with enormous gonads of steel (he goes roaming solo in a megathron or domi or cerb) hasn't brought one yet.
There's more to PvP than gate camping NPC space in Curse you know.
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Malik Mantille
Minmatar Dark Sun Collective
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:45:00 -
[76]
One quick question... If 20% of all players submitted at least one job in production, were you counting the 1 or two we perform in those new player missions? If so, I fear it is skewed. ------
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Gara Al'Malik
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:25:00 -
[77]
Thank you very much for the new QEN Dr.EyjoG! I love them.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:43:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
My questions are as follow: will the position of T2 BPOs within the T2 market be addressed in a future Quarterly Economic Newsletter, and if so, when may that be, and will it include measures to be used to address the situation (as was the case with the shuttle refining situation)?
Regardless of where one sits on the argument over T2 BPOs, I think a blog or report giving a real analysis (with actual numbers) of the issue would be fascinating. It could also be a nice central point where people could actually link to in order to support their assertions.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:23:00 -
[79]
I think that the 0.0 figures are a little misleading. Most of the southern areas of 0.0 I find are empty for the vast majority of time, with large blobs occasionally passing through bumping up the jumps count.
Also, would be interesting if you could do some regional reports. I'd be most interested in seeing a case study between Providence, where we operate the NRDS legal system and have open borders to anyone, vs some regions where the "civilian" population is made up by rent paying alliances
_______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
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CCP Dr.EyjoG
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:48:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
..... would be interesting if you could do some regional reports. I'd be most interested in seeing a case study between Providence, where we operate the NRDS legal system and have open borders to anyone, vs some regions where the "civilian" population is made up by rent paying alliances
We would only be able to do regional comparison and analysis for the regions with the largest trade hubs (i.e. the Forge, Heimatar, Domain, Sinq Laison, Citadel, etc.) in order to avoid revealing any alliance or corp related info. We have done some regional comparison like this before (see the end of this devblog) and I found that very interesting. So a good suggestion and we will see what we can do in the future QENs.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:04:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
We would only be able to do regional comparison and analysis for the regions with the largest trade hubs (i.e. the Forge, Heimatar, Domain, Sinq Laison, Citadel, etc.) in order to avoid revealing any alliance or corp related info.
Just ask them. I bet that the people holding providence will gladly allow you to do some analysis and reveal it to the public. ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:20:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 20/10/2008 19:23:27
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
..... would be interesting if you could do some regional reports. I'd be most interested in seeing a case study between Providence, where we operate the NRDS legal system and have open borders to anyone, vs some regions where the "civilian" population is made up by rent paying alliances
We would only be able to do regional comparison and analysis for the regions with the largest trade hubs (i.e. the Forge, Heimatar, Domain, Sinq Laison, Citadel, etc.) in order to avoid revealing any alliance or corp related info. We have done some regional comparison like this before (see the end of this devblog) and I found that very interesting. So a good suggestion and we will see what we can do in the future QENs.
It is all political of course, and I guess so are my motives. Since we want to encourage neutral traders and pilots to our space, to have a report on how our system works and what we're doing in the region, how it differs from others (afaik we're the only 0.0 region that let people in our space rent free) would generate interest at the very least and help improve our reputation
But was more just interested at trade volumes by region. How many billions or trillions of isk in minerals and modules pass through the markets of the various 0.0 regions?
edit: Also, I know for a fact that go to catch, especially outside of Russian timezone and the place is dead. (Amandi will kill me for shouting this all over forums, but) Providence you'll struggle to find a system where you're the only person in it in Euro and US timezones. But we don't make your high traffic list in this latest QEN
_______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
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BlondieBC
Minmatar 7th Tribal Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.21 04:12:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Shadowsword Nice newletter.
I think Eve need new medium warships, from destroyers to battlecruisers.
- The 0.0 landscape. It is human nature, when planning an offensive or trying to resist an incoming offensive, to seek advantage over the opponent, which mean having superior numbers. That mean factions always get bigger and bigger, and well, you know the result. Lag, lag, huge lag, and lots of 0.0 regions are relatively devoid of life. Because the players holding it are busy fighting elsewhere, and because large entities can't tolerate smaller ones unless they're allies/renters.
I don't see this as a healthy situation for the game. But, because it would be going against human nature, the steps taken to solve this, if CCP wish to do it, will have to be extremes. How to stop too many players from siding together? The only way I see to do it would be to put a cap on alliance size, and removing any ingame way from one alliance to distinguish one neutral from another in 0.0. No alliance tag, no show info, no standings, no local communication. While this is indeed extreme, try to imagine 5 minutes how 0.0 would be like with those changes. I honestly think Eve would be more fun...
Agreed, more medium new ships that players can afford to lose, and less lag. Fleet battles and POS warfare is about as fun as treating toe fungus.
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Allvan Harl
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:00:00 -
[84]
Great QEN. I've read it twice and hunger for more info!
Any chance you could make some data available in each QEN? I'd like to see info in each QEN on the spread of total skillpoints and the spread of skillpoints amongst skill categories.
Again, thanks for the QEN! I look forward to the next ones.
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Eve Goetterdaemmerung
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:00:00 -
[85]
I am (or was!?) actually a fan of these Economic Reports and therefore of Dr.EyjoG himself... But delivering a quaterly report 5 month late is simply worthless - the numbers are interesting history, but not relevant market data anymore! If I would do that in my job i would get fired! I think this just shows that he does not take this serious (or does not get paid enough to take it serious). So either do this right or don't waste our and your time with meaningless statistics! Eve G.
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Arc D'landrus
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:39:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Eve Goetterdaemmerung ...delivering a quaterly report 5 month late is simply worthless..So either do this right or don't waste our and your time with meaningless statistics! Eve G.
Rawr.
But the point does remain. This is a quarterly report that's been delivered absurdly late, and without bothering to run around with the blame game, it seems as though the most logical course would have been to just forgo the time spent on it, and leave it as a footnote to the forthcoming quarter, rather than spend even more time to finish it.
As far as the future quarter report's go; donÆt stop the work, but keep in mind, the pooch clearly got screwed. _______________________________________________ Easy Dude. You're being very un-Dude.
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.14 16:45:00 -
[87]
Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 14/11/2008 16:47:27
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated. Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG Very good point! And agreed!
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG But the good news is that the we have solved our resource problem by adding more good people to the CCP team and aim to be back on track with publishing the 2nd Quarter QEN before mid of November, the 3rd Quarter QEN in December and the 4th Quarter QEN on schedule in January.
Dr.EyjoG, By my calendar, today is now 14-Nov, the midpoint (weekday) of November*. Please take 2 minutes to either post the 2Q QEN, or a note explaining the delay and an updated ETA for it.
Regards, MDD (*) The 15th would be the midpoint, but that is Saturday, and I am not such a taskmaster that I consider it fair to include it as a normal workday. YMMV
Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Layla
Twisted Creations
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Posted - 2008.11.18 13:49:00 -
[88]
Still hoping and waiting for the next QEN |
Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:29:00 -
[89]
I think the devs just forbade the good Dr. from use of their tradmarked "Soon" temporal measurement to give a time of release for the QEN. I'm sure it'll be out before the end of the month.
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:05:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe I think the devs just forbade the good Dr. from use of their tradmarked "Soon" temporal measurement to give a time of release for the QEN. I'm sure it'll be out before the end of the month.
I'm certain it will be out before the end of a month. The question is: which month?
I'm considering starting an old-fashioned betting pool on it.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
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Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.25 21:19:00 -
[91]
Huh... a week later and still nothing.
I think you're onto something, MDD... doesn't take much time to make a quick post and say, "Sorry guys! My plank bubble stabilizer destabilized... it's going to take longer to get that report out."
I'd be reprimanded where I work for being this late with deliverables.
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.01 19:23:00 -
[92]
Quote: reported by CCP Dr.EyjoG | 2008.11.28 01:30:15 Unfortunately we were not able to finalize the 2nd quarter, 2008 Quarterly Economic Journal before Thanksgiving
The US Thanksgiving Day (which other CCP people have written is not a factor to CCP) was Thursday 2008.11.27. So the announcement that the QEN wouldn't be out before Thanksgiving is itself at least a day late (translation: DUH!).
Originally by: "Dr.EyjoG" So ... we decided to ... delay the publishing by another week.
I read that as "publish 2Q QEN by 2008.12.05". And what of the 3Q QEN and its December publication? Is "by 2008.12.31" still your estimate?
I'm going to continue to hold your feet to the fire (as best I can), Dr.EyjoG. Delays may be acceptable, failure to communicate about them IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.05 18:17:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Callib Gor''Karrithe on 05/12/2008 18:17:37 Looking at the date and time, I stay rather disappointed...
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.06 18:50:00 -
[94]
Simply because I'm getting rather fond of beating my head against the wall, I'd like to point out that it has been a month since the previous post, and *still* no response from EyjoG (or Wrangler for that matter).
*sigh*
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 14:23:00 -
[95]
You know, if you had to scrap the 2nd quarter report and start over because of the Starbase Exploit, you can tell us... |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.28 11:31:00 -
[96]
Anyone by the name of EyjoG around at CCP? |
Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.01.28 12:39:00 -
[97]
afaik, the next QEN was being worked on at the same time as the POS exploit thing came up. It might not be public knowledge, but the Research and Stats dept. of CCP is a grand total of 4 people (possibly only 3, I'm not sure tbh) and running DB queries do take a ton of time (Diagoras mentioned a query about megacyte taking a few hours alone and the file ended up so large they were unable to open it, so they had to re-query it in batches). We did ask eyjo about it while we were there, and it's still being worked on. ----------------------
My Blog |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.28 15:43:00 -
[98]
Considering the 1st Quarter QEN came out in October 2008 my prediction is that the Second Quarter QEN will come out in July 2009. I believe it's the Icelandic metric system, a cycle is measured in leap years compared to our standard years. Therefore the QEN's have always been on schedule. |
Tamulus Dusharne
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Posted - 2009.01.28 16:57:00 -
[99]
I find it hard to believe that these lengthy queries are taking up their time. As you've even mentioned, they're waiting around while the queries run... I know enough about databases and querying them to know that there's no interaction requried WHILE a query is running.
Certainly, it can't take the entire team of three to four people to wait while a query finishes.
I think Eyjo would be quite surprised with how much people appreciate any kind of update as well, instead of just turning a blind eye to the playerbase. But what do I know? Seems to me that it's more likely Eyjo simply bit off more than he can chew with claiming he'd be writing Economic Newsletters by the Quarter....... This POS exploit popped up well after Eyjo was perilously behind schedule. As such, I'd say that it's a pretty thin excuse to use for being late with this stuff. ;)
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:28:00 -
[100]
i wasn't giving an excuse, just pointing out that gathering the data required for these reports isn't just a trivial matter. ----------------------
My Blog |
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Khalish Mo'Tashi
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:38:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Khalish Mo''Tashi on 29/01/2009 18:38:27
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Tamulus Dusharne
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Posted - 2009.02.03 18:29:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Tamulus Dusharne on 03/02/2009 18:30:26 I think you missed my point that running queries and writing SQL is, in fact, quite trivial. When a query takes two hours to run, there is no interaction needed with it for those two hours. There are no endless questions... you've provided the database with all of the values it needs to provide you with the information you're looking for. The reason some queries take long amounts of time to execute is because there is quite simply a lot of data that the DBMS must process. A DBMS is notably a software based system and, in fact, is not an actual person.
The point I was trying to make is that Eyjo, in the long tradition of business-oriented people, is making excuses for his lack of drive to do his work. At this point, with things this late, and absolutely NO word for him, how could anyone draw any other conclusions? Even with people saying things like this, Eyjo can't do anything but jam his head further into the sand.
It's good to see that members of our CSM - who were elected to voice the collective concerns of the playerbase - are essentially backing CCP in their efforts to blow smoke up our rear ends. Kudos to that! :)
Edit - grammar. |
Jehosephat Godlittle
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.02.03 19:04:00 -
[103]
I'm with Tamulus Dusharne on this. For someone who, in the eyes of the player-base, was hired to provide qualitative backing for the financial aspect of the game, and who took it upon himself to provide that same player-base with quarterly status updates on the economy of EVE, to be this late, this tardy, and this taciturn in his responses, is downright dereliction of duty.
Yes, the POS thing may have gotten in the way. Yes, the resources he has to work with may be limited. Yes, he may have a lot of other things on his plate. But this doesn't excuse the total lack of progress and the total disregard of the player-base. No I don't expect miracles, and I do know that he's only human, but if I were to do this bad a job, from the player-base' point of view, I'd be out on my ass already.
4 people for running statistics and database queries is actually quite a lot. I've worked on projects with similarly sized datasets, with less people, and still we were able to produce more results in less time than this.
I stood up for Eyjo and his team at one time, because I know how difficult these things can be, but my patience is quite clearly at an end. What an idiot I was. The only conclusion I can draw from the QEN handling and the POS affair, is that it is a joke, a band-aid to smoothen out and smother the rough patches and the critics, and a PR stunt.
It's gotten to the point that I no longer care. In fact, I don't even know why I bother writing this. Oh, and this goes for the whole CSM as well. Way to go to get something done about anything. What a bloody waste of time. But don't worry, I'm sure you fanboys will have a great time in Iceland. |
Jacabon Mere
Caldari red dwarf industries
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Posted - 2009.02.08 12:09:00 -
[104]
how about a post a day until something happens.....anyone read asterix comics when they were younger (or not so younger). I'm going to hold my breath............
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Busca Tor
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:55:00 -
[105]
Bump |
Tamulus Dusharne
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:32:00 -
[106]
Honestly, I think there's little chance of another QEN.
Given how perilously behind schedule Eyjo is with these, I'd say there are only two conclusions that can be drawn... either: a) Eyjo is completely incapable of doing the work he promised on the schedule he himself put forth. b) Eyjo is disinterested in this project to the point of complete apathy.
Not only is Eyjo over 6 months behind schedule on these reports, but it's been months since we've heard from Eyjo at all in these forums. Anymore, he leaves other people to post information about the newsletters.
It would take mere seconds to write a single line response to this thread saying, "Don't worry, I'm still working on it." Instead, Eyjo finds it more pertinent to reply to a couple of other threads, ignoring this one that is dealing with a project which was one of his first public-facing moves in CCP. In fact, one of the replies even took three edits to post... really, it's just humorous.
Personally, I just find it shocking that he cares so little of his work. One thing that will stand out, however, is that if he ever leaves CCP this legacy of excessively late and unfinished work will follow him. You can't pad your resume with, "I like writing quarterly economic reports about nine calandar months behind schedule."
It's alright, Eyjo... all business side people are like this. I'm sure you'll tell us all how it's the IT side's fault eventually.
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:47:00 -
[107]
Simply because I'm getting rather fond of beating my head against the wall, I'd like to point out that it has been four months since the last post from EyjoG. Maybe he's been fired from CCP (one can hope...).
*sigh*
MDD
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Ten Bulls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 02:55:00 -
[108]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Simply because I'm getting rather fond of beating my head against the wall, I'd like to point out that it has been four months since the last post from EyjoG. Maybe he's been fired from CCP (one can hope...).
*sigh*
MDD
I doubt insulting someone is going to make them want to please you, but even if it did your insults would be much more powerful if they were accurate.
His last post was 8th Jan according to my 2 min investigation, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=965553&page=6#162
I would like some end user data from him too, but im sure there is lots of behind the scenes work for him to do that benefits us also, for example unearthing exploits (POS moon minerals) and repairing flawed game design (shuttle reprocessing), these two issues have had a much bigger effect on the economy of eve than any newsletter.
/antitroll
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Ten Bulls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 02:57:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Tamulus Dusharne Edited by: Tamulus Dusharne on 12/02/2009 15:27:06 Given how perilously behind schedule Eyjo is with these, I'd say there are only two conclusions that can be drawn... either: a) Eyjo is completely incapable of doing the work he promised on the schedule he himself put forth. b) Eyjo is disinterested in this project to the point of complete apathy.
c) There is more important work for Eyjo to do.
/antitroll
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Jacabon Mere
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:33:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Ten Bulls
c) There is more important work for Eyjo to do.
/antitroll
which is somehow preventing him from posting 2 sentences letting us know why and when to expect a new one......5 minutes is such a long time we know.
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Martin Lloydd
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:52:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Martin Lloydd on 24/02/2009 18:52:43 Can't release what you haven't worked on. :)
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Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:37:00 -
[112]
Q2 2009 will see the launch of T3 and Wormhole economy. Properly balancing this totally new branch of Eve's industry will be critically important, otherwise T3 might go the way of the Combat Boosters.
So when can we expect to read the QEN for Q2 2009?
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.17 07:34:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Clurk Brodon So when can we expect to read the QEN for Q2 2009?
Second Tuesday in the month of Never.
MDD
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Jacabon Mere
Caldari red dwarf industries
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:05:00 -
[114]
time to kill 10 seconds of my life and ask for an update from the depths of hell........ -----------------------
Red Dwarf Industries is recruiting Aussies/players active around DT. Check out our thread here |
Evanda Char
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:16:00 -
[115]
The end of 1st Quarter 2009 is almost here - I'm hoping very much that there will be a new QEN, as I find them interesting, useful and highly readable.
-Eva-
Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time |
Beckoner Venhatha
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:34:00 -
[116]
^^This
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Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.31 05:18:00 -
[117]
ok, my patience has worn out too.
QEN, NOW. ----------------------
My Blog |
Jacabon Mere
Caldari red dwarf industries
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Posted - 2009.04.08 12:01:00 -
[118]
Giving the thread a bit of love in hopes of a response? do any dev's read this and take notice? -----------------------
Red Dwarf Industries is recruiting Aussies/players active around DT. Check out our thread here |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.04.08 14:59:00 -
[119]
As the next QEN was due to be about T2 production I'd really like to read it sometime. Any general ETA on this? -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:11:00 -
[120]
I would have thought that if anyone was resistant to the Soon(tm), it would be Enjoyg. Oh Noes. Need some help?
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2009.04.11 19:13:00 -
[121]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Dr.EyjoG, You are not forgiven. If you had taken 2 minutes to put up a post at the time the QENs were due, explaining that you were understaffed/overtaxed, then you might have been.
Missing schedule: forgivable if communicated. Failure to communicate: unforgivable.
MDD
Very good point! And agreed!
Please keep to your word, and the one you made here too;
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG As the lead economist for EVE, my duties will include publishing economic information to the EVE-Online community. My duties will also be to coordinate research cooperation with academic institutions as the academic world has expressed quite an interest in doing research on this phenomenon (which shows how important MMOGs might become in future research into economic and human behavior).
No mention of your PR position witnessed here.
For reference; Quarterly Economic Reports; (Links to Dev Blogs). QEN Q3 2007 here (pdf link). First! QEN Q4 2007 here (pdf link). QEN Q1 2008 here (pdf link). QEN Q2 2008 here (Not a pdf. Not a real QEN, just an announcement). QEN Q3 2008 due "2008(due in December)". QEN Q4 2008 due "due in January 2009". QEN Q1 2009 due SOONÖ. QEN Future ?????
Economic Dev Blogs; 1. Market Overview For Mineral Markets. 2. Production of space ships. 3. Some statistics on corporations. 4. How I Learnt to Stop Worrying and Love Carebearing (or QEN Q2 2008!).
These and various other posts here also. --
DesuSigs |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.14 05:17:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Tamulus Dusharne Edited by: Tamulus Dusharne on 12/02/2009 15:27:06 Honestly, I think there's little chance of another QEN.
Given how perilously behind schedule Eyjo is with these, I'd say there are only two conclusions that can be drawn... either: a) Eyjo is completely incapable of doing the work he promised on the schedule he himself put forth. b) Eyjo is disinterested in this project to the point of complete apathy.
Not only is Eyjo over 12 months behind schedule on these reports, but it's been months since we've heard from Eyjo at all in these forums. Anymore, he leaves other people to post information about the newsletters.
It would take mere seconds to write a single line response to this thread saying, "Don't worry, I'm still working on it." Instead, Eyjo finds it more pertinent to reply to a couple of other threads, ignoring this one that is dealing with a project which was one of his first public-facing moves in CCP. In fact, one of the replies even took three edits to post... really, it's just humorous.
Personally, I just find it shocking that he cares so little of his work. One thing that will stand out, however, is that if he ever leaves CCP this legacy of excessively late and unfinished work will follow him. You can't pad your resume with, "I like writing quarterly economic reports about a year behind schedule."
It's alright, Eyjo... all business side people are like this. I'm sure you'll tell us all how it's the IT side's fault eventually.
Edit: Corrections
i just want to point out that Eyjo is not full time worker at CCP
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Tamulus Dusharne
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Posted - 2009.04.14 13:51:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Tamulus Dusharne on 14/04/2009 13:53:12
Originally by: ceaon
i just want to point out that Eyjo is not full time worker at CCP
And how does this exempt someone from their own self-set timelines? We didn't tell him when he would have the QEN ready, he told US when he would have it ready.
Please clarify your argument and provide evidence of how this would impact the gravity of his self-set schedule. Perhaps you would even be able to provide links to where EyjoG's employment is listed as part time, as I find myself unable to find this information.
If someone says they're going to do something by a certain date, they should do it. If they're running behind schedule on such a largely public facing project, they should take the time out of their busy schedules to write a single sentence: "I'm very busy right now, so this will be delayed until X." It's actually excessively easy to do.
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cutefuzzynubblet
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Posted - 2009.04.14 14:45:00 -
[124]
Edited by: cutefuzzynubblet on 14/04/2009 14:47:51 He's to busy jetting around the world pimpin eve to the masses.
The Marketing dept of EVE has alot to answer for.
Just add the QEN to the list of other marketing failures
EVE voice (we want subs, damm not working have to give it for free)
GTC's (now eve has no death penalty, cant hit the wallet if its bottomless)
EVE TV (we want subs, damm not working have to give it for free or cancel it)
QEN (the egg is busy jetting about, forget QEN)
The talk on the street is Char renaming is coming (moar money for us, snickers CCP), cant wait to see how this affects the game
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.15 09:47:00 -
[125]
Posting to confirm QEN has gone MIA without any explanation to my frustration, and I'm sure many with me.
Of course I can speculate at explanations, and I'm not claiming CCP has been picking their noses and doing nothing the last couple of months, but if a deliberate reprioritization has been taken place, communicate it. If not, then either fix the underlying problem or make the subconscious reprioritization a conscious one and again, communicate it. I don't want to have to speculate, I want a simple statement of the current state of the QEN in all honesty and with planning and thought to back up that statement instead of stating an intent that cannot be backed up by actions.
Is the marketing department too busy to write a statement? Here, I'll help you out and write the outline of a blog for you, based on my current speculation.
Quote: The end of the Somewhat Periodic Economic Newsletter
As you've all noticed, the Quarterly Economic Newsletter has regrettably been less Quarterly then intended. We at CCP have had our hands full at creating all sorts of new yumminess for you players, while at the same keeping the game running as intended. As part of these ongoing operations, we also monitor the in-game economy to insure its stability and fair play for all players. This has (amongst other things) resulted in recognizing and handling the POS exploit of 2008, and said incident has made us ramp up our monitoring efforts.
This, combined with the CSM, has lead to a larger then expected work load for our in-house economist Dr.EyjoG and his team, and despite several additions to this team, their work load has grown faster then the resources we could throw at it. In turn, writing the QEN has been put on the back burner for much longer then expected.
Recently we had an internal discussion about the current situation, and we were faced with a choice to either hire more staff for our economic department or to cut down on their work load, and we have decided that for now, we'll go with the second option. This unfortunately means that the QEN will be no more until otherwise stated. I am sure many players will be disappointed about this choice, but I hope you all realize that this is better then not making a choice at all or leaving you in the dark any longer then you've already have been.
I'm sure it could do with a polish left and right, but it should do the job fine.
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.15 16:23:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Tamulus Dusharne Edited by: Tamulus Dusharne on 14/04/2009 13:58:43 Edited by: Tamulus Dusharne on 14/04/2009 13:53:12
Originally by: ceaon
i just want to point out that Eyjo is not full time worker at CCP
And how does this exempt someone from their own self-set timelines? We didn't tell him when he would have the QEN ready, he told US when he would have it ready.
in a way i understand this Eyjo work like a freelancer for CCP besides the work on Akureyri university, CCP offer him this "deals" when go to this game conference CCP give money for that when CCP want to give you the QEN have to pay also ofc Eyjo is not going to tell us "CCP dint pay me to do this task screw you" what you will hear is was very busy working in new way to gather market information bla bla bla you should point some questions to Ryan Scott Dancey btw ***** vagina .... why the forum filter is sexist ?
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Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.03 08:21:00 -
[127]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
shuttles no longer sold by npcs reported by CCP Dr.EyjoG | 2008.04.17 16:05:55
"The benefit from removing this price cap is that the price of tritanium will be more in line with the underlying demand for tritanium at any given time. This makes the mining industry more profitable in the long run and will balance the benefits between mining and other professions in EVE."
One year later, would you say that removing the cap made the mining industry more profitable, and more balanced with other professions?
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Busca Tor
Minmatar 3Mco
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Posted - 2009.05.15 09:42:00 -
[128]
Originally by: DaDutchDude Posting to confirm QEN has gone MIA without any explanation to my frustration, and I'm sure many with me.
Of course I can speculate at explanations, and I'm not claiming CCP has been picking their noses and doing nothing the last couple of months, but if a deliberate reprioritization has been taken place, communicate it. If not, then either fix the underlying problem or make the subconscious reprioritization a conscious one and again, communicate it. I don't want to have to speculate, I want a simple statement of the current state of the QEN in all honesty and with planning and thought to back up that statement instead of stating an intent that cannot be backed up by actions.
Is the marketing department too busy to write a statement? Here, I'll help you out and write the outline of a blog for you, based on my current speculation.
Quote: The end of the Somewhat Periodic Economic Newsletter
As you've all noticed, the Quarterly Economic Newsletter has regrettably been less Quarterly then intended. We at CCP have had our hands full at creating all sorts of new yumminess for you players, while at the same keeping the game running as intended. As part of these ongoing operations, we also monitor the in-game economy to insure its stability and fair play for all players. This has (amongst other things) resulted in recognizing and handling the POS exploit of 2008, and said incident has made us ramp up our monitoring efforts.
This, combined with the CSM, has lead to a larger then expected work load for our in-house economist Dr.EyjoG and his team, and despite several additions to this team, their work load has grown faster then the resources we could throw at it. In turn, writing the QEN has been put on the back burner for much longer then expected.
Recently we had an internal discussion about the current situation, and we were faced with a choice to either hire more staff for our economic department or to cut down on their work load, and we have decided that for now, we'll go with the second option. This unfortunately means that the QEN will be no more until otherwise stated. I am sure many players will be disappointed about this choice, but I hope you all realize that this is better then not making a choice at all or leaving you in the dark any longer then you've already have been.
I'm sure it could do with a polish left and right, but it should do the job fine.
Must be tough to a games company having more profissional players than they workers dont you wish being on the console market CCP???
and kill them all Quote: undefined
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