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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:10:00 -
[631]
why is PVE important?
because PVE are a bunch of dummy targets.
860 DMG on cruiser, Battleship, Battlecruiser hull... obvious why i use torpedoes with +38% TP-900 drones
3-4 volley every ship class with 2 CN BCS, CN torpedoes, CNR
50-400 DMG on interceptors and AFs, especially if they microwarpdrive, 3-4 volleys again
200-250 DMG on HACs, 5-6 volleys for the kill, HACs are the hardest
SISI
200-350 DMG on BS - 6 volley 200-300 DMG on BC - 5 volley 125-250 DMG on Cruiser - 6 volley 50-100 DMG on HAC - 10 volley 15-20 DMG on AF - never 5-10 DMG on Interceptor - never
what kind of weapon gets 50% damage reduction no matter what at average 30-50 km range? Missiles do
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Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:18:00 -
[632]
So ask yourself, is it still worth it to use missiles for PVE over turrets? Even after these changes?
Lets say you're a mission runner which gets a variety of kill types, and you can pick any race to specialize towards. You're not bound to what you currently use on TQ.
What do you think the distribution of choices is going to look like?
My guess.. between one third and one half would still pick Caldari. I make that assumption because even with greater damage reductions, the lone pilot has variable damage types, consistent damage at any range, extremely high damage at long range, and can increase said damage with a module whose range is much higher than a webifier.
I make that assumption because missiles are so user friendly, that as long as their damage is enough to break most NPCs, they're going to be the top choice.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:22:00 -
[633]
So Shard, you are fine with missiles being complete and utter crap in pvp I guess and only semi-crap in pve.
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Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:27:00 -
[634]
for level 4s, Gallente Dominix with 425 Rail guns + sentry drones, + swarm of lights, mediums, + Target Painters
for ratting, Megathron with Mega Neutron Blasters II, + heavy drones + MWD + web
for fun, Ammar BS + Pulse, + AB II, + small drones
Caldari will be the worst, but since so many people have already skilled them up, like 70% of eve pve base
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oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:52:00 -
[635]
I tried Enemies Abound L4 (1 of 5) on sisi last week in a nighthawk.
Took about 18 minutes. Maybe a bit less.
When this patch comes out, there are going to be a hell of a lot of CNR pilots who will be furious about the torp/cruise nerf, but there are still missile ships that can do PvE missions well enough.
Give it a try in a Nighthawk and you'll see what I mean.
I still think that the cruise/torp nerfs are WAY too extreme, but L4 missions that will take ages (or be impossible) in a CNR can still be completed satisfactorily in a Nighthawk.
Not much of a consolation, I know... but... meh. |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:15:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Rip Striker The Cerb is not a HAM ship. It's design prevents it from fighting close range, that is, it has no resistance/shield bonuses as the other close combat shis.
Fly safe!
I use the cerb in small gangs (which will apparently no longer exist after patch), always using high orbit against a target which had been previously tackled / webbed. Makes for a vastly superior damage output, not to mention you don't need to fit three sensor boosters for long-range damage to work.
However, I've learned that since I'm a LoSec dweller, not a 0sec dweller, my playstyle doesn't matter
Oh. And I fit defenders on my Eagle. I suppose that's a bad idea as well. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
UrsaeMajoris
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:24:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Shard Merchant Can you even post without reusing and then bastardizing my rhetoric?
Sure, when you stop posting said, needless rhetoric.
Originally by: Shard Merchant How am I 'thinking wishfully' by expecting CCP to tweak Rage for the role they themselves decided on?
As it stands, Rage ammo has been tweaked to require more support (than normally on TQ) to be able to deal full damage to ship classes of the same type and almost none for bigger class targets. They are not making it exclusively for bigger targets only, as the combination of the fact that Rage explosion radius increase is not in line with Fury, along with Fendahl stating that Rage ammo does "very poor damage against targets of the same class and lower (if they are speed tanking)." proves this.
Right now on SISI, you need either a support ship or 2 target painters equipped on the usual Rage torp boats for explosion radius to match the signature radius of most battleship-sized targets. As screwed as it is fitting 2 painters, it's doable but compromises tanking. There's a huge difference between needing 2 painters to compensate for 650m explosion radius, and 4-5 for 823-850m which would pretty much make any torp boat lack any kind of tank. Eitherway, I still am of the opinion that SISI's Rage ammo explosion radius and damage stats should not come to pass on TQ.
Originally by: Shard Merchant You can't say I'm the only one who wants this, and then whinge at CCP to reconsider doing the same damn thing. That's some contradictory roofle, Jeeves
No, just some misunderstanding 'roofle'. Let me extend what I was trying to say: T2 Rage/Fury ammo is being changed from a specialised, upgraded, high-damage ammo designed for ships of the same class to "Use this only for bigger targets unless you have extra support modules/skills.".
Let me point it out again, if CCP truly, and really wanted to make Rage ammo for bigger targets only, they would have scaled the damage vs explosion radius in the same manner as Fury.
Originally by: Shard Merchant Um, lol? Discussing SISI stats in a SISI thread on a SISI forum and then using TQ values to make your case is one red herring.
lolwut? Let me say it for you again because you seem to have misinterpreted me: I understand and support the changes CCP have made to Fury over faction - I understand and support how on SISI, Fury damage and Fury explosion radius are both larger than Faction. Why do I support those changes? Because on TQ, Fury and Faction have very, very little to no damage or explosion radius differences between each other. And also because on TQ, Rage and it's Faction counterpart do have a difference in damage and explosion radius, so naturally Fury and Faction should do the same (which it has, as shown on SISI). But I do not support how while Fury and Faction got an actual notable damage and explosion radius difference, Rage and Faction differences was expanded further.
To summarise: I support Rage and Fury ammo having notable damage and explosion radius differences over their respective faction counterparts because on TQ Fury doesnt and Rage does, and now on SISI Fury does and Rage still does but they didn't leave Rage alone, they tweaked it which in my honest opinion, didn't need the exp and damage tweaking they gave it.
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:49:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Oh. And I fit defenders on my Eagle. I suppose that's a bad idea as well.
It certainly sounds useless but perhaps you can expalin the reasoning? Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:58:00 -
[639]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Sylthi
Oh? You mean use the little things, that on MOST PvE missions that have interceptors, also drawn instant entire room aggro? No offense, but yeah, GREAT PLAN...... If you LIKE loosing ships that is.
I think this MIGHT have been one of the logical issues they may have been talking about..... Or, maybe it's just me.
Drone Settings -> Passive mode.
Thing is, it doesn't work that easy as already mentioned in this thread, several missions will give you room aggro for just deploying your drones, them not even shooting anything and set to passive mode.
Prime example is Worlds collide mission lvl 4 stage 2.
Now if you tell us that deployed drones that didn't aggro antything causing npc aggression is not working as intended, I happily will file a bug report for this...
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:14:00 -
[640]
Hi Nozh
You should consider to add a Tracking Enhancer module for missiles. Iam aware of telling you that some of the missiles become obselte in missions or in pvp ...
Currently we have, for example for Hybrid Weapons:
MFS II 10 % dmg 10,5 rof
TE II 15 % optimal 9,5% tracking
and o/c
BCU II 10% dmg 10,5 rof
I would to see a module which affects explosion velocity and explosion radius for missiles .. something like, call it Missile Subsystem Controller or what ever, for Missiles for low slot
MSC II 12,5% reduction on Explosion Radius 7,5% bonus to Explosion Velocity
than people can decide to add BCU II for more dmg or a MSC II to hit better targets
besides i have run some tests on sisi too .... but i managed the hole new missile system in making graphs to show me and my corp mates if missiles are good or bad .... working on basic with the new missile formula which some ppl, espsecially Stefan, manageded to discover through running similiar tests on sisi and tq, i have some nice results .. there arnet soooo bad, but it could be better.
However, i think this would solve many many problems in the near future, ecspecially for PVE and PVP
hopefully you'll read this
thx
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:32:00 -
[641]
Originally by: dojocan81
Hi Nozh
You should consider to add a "Tracking Enhancer" module for missiles.
It exists, it's called the Target Painter.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:38:00 -
[642]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: dojocan81
Hi Nozh
You should consider to add a "Tracking Enhancer" module for missiles.
It exists, it's called the Target Painter.
Target Painter falls under the category of EW, not Weapon Upgrades and iam talking about weapon upgrades
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:42:00 -
[643]
It has exactly the effect that you desire.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:46:00 -
[644]
Originally by: Gypsio III It has exactly the effect that you desire.
I know, but webifiers for example have the same effect like Tracking Enhancer as well ... but all two types of modules exist in-game
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:46:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Sylthi
Oh? You mean use the little things, that on MOST PvE missions that have interceptors, also drawn instant entire room aggro? No offense, but yeah, GREAT PLAN...... If you LIKE loosing ships that is.
I think this MIGHT have been one of the logical issues they may have been talking about..... Or, maybe it's just me.
Drone Settings -> Passive mode.
Thing is, it doesn't work that easy as already mentioned in this thread, several missions will give you room aggro for just deploying your drones, them not even shooting anything and set to passive mode.
Prime example is Worlds collide mission lvl 4 stage 2.
Now if you tell us that deployed drones that didn't aggro antything causing npc aggression is not working as intended, I happily will file a bug report for this...
which combination ? the angel/blood WC4 does not show this behavior ... I did a few in a sentry domi and never got full room aggro for deploying drones (and I cleared the whole thing myself). --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
UrsaeMajoris
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:04:00 -
[646]
Originally by: dojocan81
Originally by: Gypsio III It has exactly the effect that you desire.
I know, but webifiers for example have the same effect like Tracking Enhancer as well ... but all two types of modules exist in-game
Do you mean a module that decreases explosion radius or increases explosion velocity of the equipped ship's missiles?
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:13:00 -
[647]
Originally by: UrsaeMajoris
Do you mean a module that decreases explosion radius or increases explosion velocity of the equipped ship's missiles?
Yes, I mean a module which decreases explosion radius and increase explosion velocity of equipped missiles on your ship
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Vigaz
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:26:00 -
[648]
Edited by: Vigaz on 30/10/2008 11:29:35 Dear CCP, Can we have at least a word regarding SB? Even Gypsio III (he is always agree with CCP guideline that I suspect him to be part of the company ) wasn't able to say that it works as intended. pls look it. In Sisi it's dead.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:37:00 -
[649]
as for the SB issue
Currently cruise missiles have a drf (Damage Reduction Factor) of 4,5 (fury = 4,7, prec = 3,5)
If SB's get a static bonus to reduce the drf on cruise missiles, i think this would solve the current problem with them, not hitting anymore small targets
but i think ccp want to make them more suitable against bigger ships than against smaller
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:51:00 -
[650]
just had a go on sisi... are they kidding with this? april the first?
my cruise missile damage dropped by 20% v a mission bs and 50%+ on crusiers. didnt want to try shooting frigs as im a grown man and i dont like to cry...lol
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Vigaz
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:02:00 -
[651]
Originally by: dojocan81 as for the SB issue
Currently cruise missiles have a drf (Damage Reduction Factor) of 4,5 (fury = 4,7, prec = 3,5)
If SB's get a static bonus to reduce the drf on cruise missiles, i think this would solve the current problem with them, not hitting anymore small targets
but i think ccp want to make them more suitable against bigger ships than against smaller
SB + max skills + top fitting + race dmg bonus = 300dps against BC and bigger. A caracal (t1 cruiser) can do the same for less isk/SP.
It seems to me that CCP doenst have any ideas regarding SB (I guess it's not a priority for them). But It's a priority for me. Almost half of my time I fly SB.
here my stats: http://killboard.frontal-impact.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=40588&view=ships_weapons
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Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:55:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Sylthi
Oh? You mean use the little things, that on MOST PvE missions that have interceptors, also drawn instant entire room aggro? No offense, but yeah, GREAT PLAN...... If you LIKE loosing ships that is.
I think this MIGHT have been one of the logical issues they may have been talking about..... Or, maybe it's just me.
Drone Settings -> Passive mode.
Thing is, it doesn't work that easy as already mentioned in this thread, several missions will give you room aggro for just deploying your drones, them not even shooting anything and set to passive mode.
Prime example is Worlds collide mission lvl 4 stage 2.
Now if you tell us that deployed drones that didn't aggro antything causing npc aggression is not working as intended, I happily will file a bug report for this...
which combination ? the angel/blood WC4 does not show this behavior ... I did a few in a sentry domi and never got full room aggro for deploying drones (and I cleared the whole thing myself).
Specifically, Angel/Guristas is the one I am refering to. Admittedly, I have never flown the Angel/Blood combo, so I am going to have to take your word for this one. But, just so we're clear, your saying that in Angel/Blood, in the second pocket your sentries AND your normal drone DON'T draw aggro?!?!? Wow. Me smells a bug and/or exploit, one way or the other, and thinks you should keep exploiting the hell out of it sir! Or, better yet, the lazy devs, like Nozh, who never answered my post, (like I expected him to in the first place , they never answer you when you shoot down their excuses with sound facts ) should FIX the other versions that aren't the way you obviously enjoy so we can all start enjoying those missions as much as you have been. Cheers mate, and thanks for the info!
*
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:18:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Allen Ramses
However, I've learned that since I'm a LoSec dweller, not a 0sec dweller, my playstyle doesn't matter
<humour> Of course, it doesn't! Luckly for you, my corpmate uses HAM-cerb for 0.0 gangs and is having a blast with it, so you still have a chance of playing The Game Right! </humour>
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Oh. And I fit defenders on my Eagle. I suppose that's a bad idea as well.
Heretic! Fit salvager instead! :)
On a serious note: HAM-cerb is 80% of blaster-Deimos DPS with no tracking issues and applicable anywhere within 40km radius shpere. If this does not fall under your definition of awesome, you're obviously doing it wrong.
The issue with HM-cerb is that it is simply just another kind of awesome.
And AML-cerb is half-awesome at what it does too (its' niche is a bit too small though)
Yes, that's right! Caldari get 2.5 awesome ships in 1! ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
KingCappo
Seigers of Doom
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:01:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Sylthi stuff about WC
Not to derail this thread too much into a discussion of WC aggro mechanics, but your drones will not draw aggro from the entire pocket so long as you don't use them to attack the two frigates that you get initial aggro from. You can use them attack the other three groups independently and they will not draw aggro from the other groups. Just kill those first two frigs last and you will be fine.
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Q429
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Posted - 2008.10.31 04:44:00 -
[655]
Originally by: Delichon <troll>Yes, that's right! Caldari get 2.5 awesome ships in 1!</troll>
fixed your tags for ya
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Elea Electronica
Gallente Dragon Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.31 23:22:00 -
[656]
Drones Passive = Drones dont auto aggro any rat, if rat is killed they comming back and orbit the ship.
Drones Agressiv = drones attack the first target that are attackt by the player, after rat is blown up they switch to next target.
it have nothing to do with Rat Drone Aggro, in most missions that you put out your drones the rats auto aggro them and try to kill the launcht drones first.
so sorry CCP Guy go back to work and ask one of the higher ppl inside your company about rat aggro formula.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.11.01 03:33:00 -
[657]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 01/11/2008 03:34:07 Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 01/11/2008 03:33:21 You Isk Farmers do realise that the raven has a drone bay right?
I find it very funny that caldari pilots cried for this nerf. Nanos make missles uselss... And now you are all complianing about the very thing you begged for. So the truth is, you didn't want a nano rebalance, you wanted a Caldari boost.
Missles have been unbalanced for a long time. Torps shouldn't hit frigates, niether should cruise. They should do less damage to cruisers. I was an out spoken opponent of this nerf until I tested it. CCP you are heading in the right direction. Please don't turn around and head for Drakes Online.
*edits for spelling
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Patri Andari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.01 04:46:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 01/11/2008 03:34:07
I find it very funny that caldari pilots cried for this nerf. Nanos make missles uselss... And now you are all complianing about the very thing you begged for. So the truth is, you didn't want a nano rebalance, you wanted a Caldari boost.
I have read most of the whine threads about the need to fix nanos. Really I have. Most of the complaints centered on the argument that they were able to engage and disengage from fights far too easily. I recall the occasional complaints by missile users that they could do zero damage to nanos while turrets could at least scratch the paint with some med range weapons or sniper setups. While this position has been stated, it was in no way the most common argument against nanos.
The largest group of complaints as to the need to fix nanos came from BS gang pilots that felt it unfair that RR gangs needed to field a minnie recon just to trap the nano ship. As we all know RR gangs are mostly made up of missile users right?
Missiles users have alot to gripe about in this patch, but to imply that missile user lead the charge to end nanos is at best false and at worst revisionist. You obviously have a bias against missiles, but try not to let that cloud the bit of reason you possess
A fool usually thinks he is a genius |
Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.11.01 05:26:00 -
[659]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 01/11/2008 05:26:48 Actually I have a few mil sp in missles and use them frequently on my sacrilege. You guys wanted a caldari boost. You can say what you'd like, but Caldari FW players and ratters pushed the majority of the nano whining. Torps and cruise shouldn't be able to hit small ships. How do you argue that? Large Laser turrets can't, large blasters can't, large projectiles can't. Where is the logic in letting missles do it?
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.11.01 09:52:00 -
[660]
Originally by: Q429
Oh, and after finally finishing reading the whole thread
You have WAY too much time on your hands :) AND probably you take internet spaceships too seriously. I don't, that's why you think I am trolling :) ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
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