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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.07 23:54:00 -
[811]
Originally by: Gypsio III
That's because CCP has made Precision Lights useless by giving them half the range of T1. Just use T1, they're good enough. And the obvious extra mods and stuff.
A ship with AB will not close on a MWD-fitted Cerberus in any sensible amount of time. And even if it did, it's a colossal change from the current 4 km/s HACs that are largely immune to HM fire.
Came back from SiSi again. You're right about the range, but the damage is still very weak. Was able to coax one into half armor before they just decided to leave. Took quite a few salvos.
Overall, I find missiles to be even more lacking than before, and overall the game feels slower, and not just in terms of velocity.
Not having very much fun with the changes so I'm going to call it a night. Thanks for trying to clear things up, but it still leaves much to be desired.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.08 00:02:00 -
[812]
Urgh, I just logged on to Sisi five minutes before DT. What was your Cerb fit?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.08 00:11:00 -
[813]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 00:11:56
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Ships with afterburners close quickly -enough-. If they don't use missiles, they will certainly be outdamaging me, and currently do on SiSi.
(a) Cerb has 250km range with HMLs. It's like a rail-eagle except it deals more DPS. This gives it some phenomenally good uses. (b) With MWD, how the hell are ships approaching you.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Finally had a chance against interceptors. Missiles still never hit, even using Assault IIs firing Precision lights, with the target rapidly approaching me.
Use faction lights.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Overall, I find missiles to be even more lacking than before, and overall the game feels slower, and not just in terms of velocity.
Not having very much fun with the changes so I'm going to call it a night. Thanks for trying to clear things up, but it still leaves much to be desired.
Of course. It's CCP's novel idea of game balancing, nerf everything and everyone. Except AFs and blockade runners.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.08 00:13:00 -
[814]
Edited by: Allen Ramses on 08/11/2008 00:16:20
Originally by: Cpt Branko Don't forget the lasermyrm!
I hope you aren't joking.
With the kind of transversal pulse lasers are capable of, and the drone bonuses of the Myrm, that will make for a very mean boat.
Hmm, that gets me thinking...
** Goes to SiSi again. **
EDIT: DRAT! SiSi DT again . ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
Zerref
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Posted - 2008.11.08 00:44:00 -
[815]
actually sisi is down the for alliance tournament at fan fest, great timing eh?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.08 01:15:00 -
[816]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 01:17:52
Originally by: Allen Ramses Edited by: Allen Ramses on 08/11/2008 00:16:20
Originally by: Cpt Branko Don't forget the lasermyrm!
I hope you aren't joking.
With the kind of transversal pulse lasers are capable of, and the drone bonuses of the Myrm, that will make for a very mean boat.
Hmm, that gets me thinking...
** Goes to SiSi again. **
EDIT: DRAT! SiSi DT again .
I'm not joking at all. Since med blasters are totally useless, lasermyrm is the correct way to fit the ship (if you're not going for tank+nos/neuts).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.08 01:38:00 -
[817]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'm not joking at all. Since med blasters are totally useless, lasermyrm is the correct way to fit the ship (if you're not going for tank+nos/neuts).
Yeah, I think I saw you talking about and testing it, quite ingenious really.
Faction Lights: I'll give them a try. Who the hell?: Cerb's aren't too quick :(. Other HACs catch me, or I'm too low on cap from a previous MWD attmept. Uber Range: When I fight at that range, my target leaves before the missiles even arrive. Or they just stay because they do f'all damage.
On a side note, have you tried bombers lately? WTF's going on there.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.08 03:55:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Uber Range: When I fight at that range, my target leaves before the missiles even arrive. Or they just stay because they do f'all damage.
Well, you can like shoot falcons with it and make them go away.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.08 06:04:00 -
[819]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Uber Range: When I fight at that range, my target leaves before the missiles even arrive. Or they just stay because they do f'all damage.
Well, you can like shoot falcons with it and make them go away.
Lol, there are at least a half dozen better ways to make them go away, cheaper too.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.08 09:50:00 -
[820]
Originally by: Karl Luckner Great, and were is the cap booster and painter to actually *win* a match against Mega or Domi post patch ? Painter drones, hm, I guess the respective sizes of drone bays is well known to you ?
... You're active tanking, aren't you? Stop that.
Two large painter drones > unbonused painter. And yes, I'm quite aware of Raven's and Mega's drone bays - I flew Mega until about nine months ago, when I finished Caldari Battleship V and switched to Raven. Never looked back.
(After the patch goes live, I might switch to neut Domi in some cases, though. I'll also be going for Amarr BS.) -- Gradient forum |
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.08 09:55:00 -
[821]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 01:17:52
Originally by: Allen Ramses Edited by: Allen Ramses on 08/11/2008 00:16:20
Originally by: Cpt Branko Don't forget the lasermyrm!
I hope you aren't joking.
With the kind of transversal pulse lasers are capable of, and the drone bonuses of the Myrm, that will make for a very mean boat.
Hmm, that gets me thinking...
** Goes to SiSi again. **
EDIT: DRAT! SiSi DT again .
I'm not joking at all. Since med blasters are totally useless, lasermyrm is the correct way to fit the ship (if you're not going for tank+nos/neuts).
MED blasters arent totally useless, my mate with 7mill sp in missiles got smoked by a deimos in his cerb on sisi. Basically, if the targets webbed, blasters will still get very nice dps. EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.08 10:23:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 00:11:56
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Ships with afterburners close quickly -enough-. If they don't use missiles, they will certainly be outdamaging me, and currently do on SiSi.
(a) Cerb has 250km range with HMLs. It's like a rail-eagle except it deals more DPS. This gives it some phenomenally good uses. (b) With MWD, how the hell are ships approaching you.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Finally had a chance against interceptors. Missiles still never hit, even using Assault IIs firing Precision lights, with the target rapidly approaching me.
Use faction lights.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Overall, I find missiles to be even more lacking than before, and overall the game feels slower, and not just in terms of velocity.
Not having very much fun with the changes so I'm going to call it a night. Thanks for trying to clear things up, but it still leaves much to be desired.
Of course. It's CCP's novel idea of game balancing, nerf everything and everyone. Except AFs and blockade runners.
With max skills it is 180km without rigs. and it needs at least 2 sb t2 to reach that range. And it is nothing like a rail eagle , eagle has insta dmg which is much more usefull.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.08 12:02:00 -
[823]
Originally by: Naomi Knight With max skills it is 180km without rigs. and it needs at least 2 sb t2 to reach that range. And it is nothing like a rail eagle , eagle has insta dmg which is much more usefull.
The only rigs that you should ever fit to your Cerberus are missile velocity ones. Well, you might choose Rigour for extra interceptor lolz, but I prefer the extra force projection of HBT. The 2 SB is not an issue. Instant damage of rail Eagle is very nice - but it's around half the damage of the Cerb and has tracking problems against close targets. Different but balanced, I feel.
With range becoming much more meaningful, Eagle will also become a better ship, certainly.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.08 14:14:00 -
[824]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 08/11/2008 14:15:05
Cerberus vs. Ares.
Ares travelling at more than 5 km/s. Cerberus with AMLs, T1 Bloodclaw, 3x PWNAGE and standard Crash booster. Sig Foc IV, HACs IV, GMP IV, TNP V, Warhead Ups V.
Ares died after 22 missiles - five volleys.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.08 14:43:00 -
[825]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 14:43:28
Originally by: BiggestT
MED blasters arent totally useless, my mate with 7mill sp in missiles got smoked by a deimos in his cerb on sisi. Basically, if the targets webbed, blasters will still get very nice dps.
Only because your mate was in one of the worst short range HACs ever and on top of that is a total nub when it comes to fitting/piloting obviously.
Do you have any clue what it's like to get in medium blaster range vs competent people? Or rather, how easy it is to keep them outside of that range?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Phidell
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.08 20:42:00 -
[826]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 01:17:52
Originally by: Allen Ramses Edited by: Allen Ramses on 08/11/2008 00:16:20
Originally by: Cpt Branko Don't forget the lasermyrm!
I hope you aren't joking.
With the kind of transversal pulse lasers are capable of, and the drone bonuses of the Myrm, that will make for a very mean boat.
Hmm, that gets me thinking...
** Goes to SiSi again. **
EDIT: DRAT! SiSi DT again .
I'm not joking at all. Since med blasters are totally useless, lasermyrm is the correct way to fit the ship (if you're not going for tank+nos/neuts).
MED blasters arent totally useless, my mate with 7mill sp in missiles got smoked by a deimos in his cerb on sisi. Basically, if the targets webbed, blasters will still get very nice dps.
The Cerb can shoot from 250km. 150+ with only halfway decent skills. I wonder why he got himself webbed...
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.08 22:18:00 -
[827]
Originally by: Phidell The Cerb can shoot from 250km. 150+ with only halfway decent skills. I wonder why he got himself webbed...
Easy.
You can target and launch from 250, but the weapons may not go that far, especially on only subpar skills.
Assume the missiles actually hit. They do pitiful damage now. I actually tested this in a few situations today. Every time the target just shrugs off the damage no problem, races towards the cerb, and annihilates it.
Missile damage is pathetic as it is now and seriously needs to be looked at.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.08 23:29:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Every time the target just shrugs off the damage no problem, races towards the cerb, and annihilates it.
I take it the cerb was not using a MWD but was some ABing failfit?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.09 00:04:00 -
[829]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Every time the target just shrugs off the damage no problem, races towards the cerb, and annihilates it.
This must be a reference to current TQ mechanics. My experience of this on Sisi has been precisely the opposite.
You're not shrugging off any missile damage with a MWD running, and you're not racing towards anything with a bloody AB.
Or was your Cerb some sort of horrific failfit with no speed mod and a full rack of SPRs?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 00:22:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Or was your Cerb some sort of horrific failfit with no speed mod and a full rack of SPRs, firing kinetic missiles at T2 Gallente ships?
My thoughts exactly. For some reason you see MWDless HACs on SISI, it's so funny.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.09 09:44:00 -
[831]
Edited by: Khamal Jolstien on 09/11/2008 09:46:16
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Gypsio III
Or was your Cerb some sort of horrific failfit with no speed mod and a full rack of SPRs, firing kinetic missiles at T2 Gallente ships?
My thoughts exactly. For some reason you see MWDless HACs on SISI, it's so funny.
Nah. BUT I did test a triple LSE II fit just for fun. Thing tanked like a mother, but moved like an ox :(.
I must be doing something horribly wrong, because I am not getting any results from my setups. I come here and read your and Branko's suggestions, go out and test them a bunch, but I don't get any results that point to anything positive.
Seeing some damage is nice on ships that normally would get 0 per hit, but when damage is pathetic all around, it is incredibly disheartening.
Vs AB. Damage is very weak, and target simply leaves, or eventually catches me if I don't have MWD (AB instead, which is fail).
Vs MWD. Damage is better, but still too low. (100 maybe per hit if it's a large ship, most recent being a Hurricane).
Yeah, specific instances I might be effective, but very specific. Overall, it feels neutered. That same feeling when you're the noob pilot in a gang. You're there, and a target, but you don't really feel like you're accomplishing anything.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.09 17:24:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2008 00:11:56
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Ships with afterburners close quickly -enough-. If they don't use missiles, they will certainly be outdamaging me, and currently do on SiSi.
(a) Cerb has 250km range with HMLs. It's like a rail-eagle except it deals more DPS. This gives it some phenomenally good uses. (b) With MWD, how the hell are ships approaching you.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Finally had a chance against interceptors. Missiles still never hit, even using Assault IIs firing Precision lights, with the target rapidly approaching me.
Use faction lights.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Overall, I find missiles to be even more lacking than before, and overall the game feels slower, and not just in terms of velocity.
Not having very much fun with the changes so I'm going to call it a night. Thanks for trying to clear things up, but it still leaves much to be desired.
Of course. It's CCP's novel idea of game balancing, nerf everything and everyone. Except AFs and blockade runners.
With max skills it is 180km without rigs. and it needs at least 2 sb t2 to reach that range. And it is nothing like a rail eagle , eagle has insta dmg which is much more usefull.
So the best missile DESIGNED to hit (and damage) fast things can't hit for sh*t, so the answer is to take Faction missiles. That's bullsh*t in so many ways.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.09 19:16:00 -
[833]
My first post after the Precision changes were announced was to point out that Precision Lights were now useless against interceptors, and that Jav rockets were useless. But it doesn't really matter when faction lights are so effective.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:49:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Soporo
So the best missile DESIGNED to hit (and damage) fast things can't hit for sh*t, so the answer is to take Faction missiles. That's bullsh*t in so many ways.
The problem with it is the range which is quite messed up. Silly, yes, but you can BBQ ceptors anyway with faction lights if you have any pressing desire to, so its not like its role does now work.
Originally by: Soporo
Anxiously awaiting Brankos and Gypsios anti-caldari/missile justifications on this one.
Wtf? Gypsio is like the Caldari missile spammer solo Drake pwnmobile man.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:53:00 -
[835]
What about high-slot module to increase sig radius of all ships in a given radius?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:57:00 -
[836]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 10/11/2008 12:58:16 nice to have fresh air and this is similar to an idea I posted long time ago that no one cared about
now you have greatly increased dmg penalty on moving targets, but when a missile cannot hit a target of its same size for atleast 85% dmg when webbed with normal ammo types without any other help(regardless of Painter/AB) something is wrong in my opinion (compared to guns atleast)
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 16:43:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
now you have greatly increased dmg penalty on moving targets, but when a missile cannot hit a target of its same size for atleast 85% dmg when webbed with normal ammo types without any other help(regardless of Painter/AB) something is wrong in my opinion (compared to guns atleast)
But it can. A webbed cruiser is moving at approx 100-140m/s with approx 120-130m sig radius - are you trying to say HMLs/HAMs do not hit that properly? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.10 17:00:00 -
[838]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic now you have greatly increased dmg penalty on moving targets, but when a missile cannot hit a target of its same size for at least 85% dmg when webbed with normal ammo types without any other help(regardless of Painter/AB) something is wrong in my opinion (compared to guns atleast)
Something is indeed wrong here.
According to Stafen's missile damage formula, and supported by my testing in general:
Torp vs. webbed Mega: 89% Rage HAM vs. webbed Hurricane: 100% HAM vs. webbed Thorax: 100%
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Rip Striker
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Posted - 2008.11.10 17:55:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic now you have greatly increased dmg penalty on moving targets, but when a missile cannot hit a target of its same size for at least 85% dmg when webbed with normal ammo types without any other help(regardless of Painter/AB) something is wrong in my opinion (compared to guns atleast)
Something is indeed wrong here.
According to Stafen's missile damage formula, and supported by my testing in general:
Torp vs. webbed Mega: 89% Rage HAM vs. webbed Hurricane: 100% HAM vs. webbed Thorax: 100%
Sure, one can argue that additional support is needed for missiles to do 100% to an equally sized moving target (for example, turrets have similar issues). However, requiring missile users to spend 1 mid slot of their already weak tank in order to close in to 100% damage is not very "balanced".
More importantly, using a webber clearly requires the missile user to be in close combat. While some missile ship set-ups can handle these kinds of scenarios, most missile ships operate at a larger distance (+35 km). Is it "balanced" to require ships not designed for close combat to use a close combat module in order to deliver 100% damage? I think not.
In my oppinion, CCP should really consider creating a low slot module which slightly boosts missile explosion velocity and radius. I believe a good solution would be if 1-2 of these low slot modules gave same (or slightly better) result as 1 webber.
I realize this will not happen for the upcoming patch, though one can argue for it to be implemented in a near future.
Fly Safe!
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:47:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Rip Striker I believe a good solution would be if 1-2 of these low slot modules gave same (or slightly better) result as 1 webber.
Then make 1-2 tracking scripted TCs give same or slightly better result then 1 webber... Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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