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Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:41:00 -
[1]
By far the best idea to come out of the forums is the "Vne" (Velocity Never Exceed)- you know the one, speed acting like heat on the hull. Please CCP take another look at it, and see if it wouldn't be easier than changing the speeds for all the ships, tweaking drones, missiles, tracking...(the list goes on)
For each hull, set a speed that should not be exceeded. If you go faster, than this speed then you incur hull damage, just like overheating damages modules. The more you exceed the limit, the more damage you do. If you are webbed, the Vne should drop by 90% too, so it's still dangerous to try and run away.
but people will fit reppers which go in a low slot where a nano/overdrive would go, and reppers use CPU and grid. Incidentally, they might choose to fit bulkheads too, which would give that module a use again.
but vagas will still be able to get away why should you be able to hold down a 5 year player who has spent billions of isk fitting out his ship with faction speed mods and snakes. If you lock and web him fast enough he 1- might not get away and 2- he might shake his hull to pieces trying to run, and you get on the killmail anyway.
This avoids a messy re-write of the game, with the inevitable 48 hour downtime. It leaves small gangs still able to launch daring raids into enemy territory. It makes nanoing harder (which it should be) people will have to micromanage their speed, but can still risk "ludicrous speed" if they have the modules, skills, and Real Life ability to do so.
It also fits with the racial ethos- Caldari shield tank, Amarr Armour tanks, Minmatar Hull/speed tank. Gallente can still use blaster boats.
I don't know anything about writing game code, but surely this can't be that much more complicated than Heat?
Other great ideas I read were: *A range boost to webs (I like the idea of 90% at 10km dropping by 10% effectivenessevery km to 0% at 19km) *A webber bubble (or script) for HICs
But please at least look at the feasability of this as an alternative to the current sledgehammer. It would be way cooler.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:01:00 -
[2]
Worthless arguments.
1. The nano problem is not that a few rich people are going 20km/s
2. Simply capping speed is a dumb mechanic. Adjustment and fine tuning is what evolved games rather do and for a good reason. It's not amature like.
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Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:08:00 -
[3]
The "speed nerf" is going to the right place, but neeeds a lot of polishing and taking into consideration things. IMO CCP is doing good as tehy have stated over and over this is not final, so let's give em some time.
Missiles (while they are at it, they could make long range missiles viable in PvP someway), blasters etc. need to be looked at but overall it's heading well.
HACs can still go fast, just not stupidlly fast, and with AB they can reduce a lot of damage even better than MWDs. Just read soem of the threads that have been posted here and you will see, or go to sisi and test for yourself. Teh failure of a signature. |
Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Worthless arguments.
1. The nano problem is not that a few rich people are going 20km/s
So what exactly is the nano problem? CCP is trying to combat "ludicrous speed" are you suggesting that anyone that currently fits a MWD needs a nerf?
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
2. Simply capping speed is a dumb mechanic. Adjustment and fine tuning is what evolved games rather do and for a good reason. It's not amature like.
It's not simply capping speed. It's fine tuning the use of high-end speeds. Are you seriously suggesting that the current plans are fine tuning???
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Braenca
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Worthless arguments.
1. The nano problem is not that a few rich people are going 20km/s
So what exactly is the nano problem? CCP is trying to combat "ludicrous speed" are you suggesting that anyone that currently fits a MWD needs a nerf?
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
2. Simply capping speed is a dumb mechanic. Adjustment and fine tuning is what evolved games rather do and for a good reason. It's not amature like.
It's not simply capping speed. It's fine tuning the use of high-end speeds. Are you seriously suggesting that the current plans are fine tuning???
The nano problem is that ships in GENERAL where do easy to fit for speed and had no real drawbacks. Wich meant less commitment to ops/fights/engagements. This is a GOOD change.
Yeah the missiles are getting tuned and some other smaller adjustments and its ready to go. Have you lately noticed on sisi how you can actually fit your ship to do well in different situations? Where AB fits in some cases totally outshine MWD fits (wich removes the mandatory m from mwds)? Im guessing you havent. You also havent seen how small sig of an inty is shrugging off damage from missiles like they are supposed to. You might also not have seen that light missiles and light drones actually MANAGE to damage inties now. Hell yeah its a good change and not far from completion. Go whine more.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: lecrotta on 20/10/2008 16:25:42
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong The nano problem is that ships in GENERAL where do easy to fit for speed and had no real drawbacks. Wich meant less commitment to ops/fights/engagements.
So pvp being changed to being the same as some muppet accepting a mission and all the rats/opposition sitting opposite each other plugging away in a skilless static blob is a good thing is it?.
If ppl flew nano to avoid dying to ratting blobs, the fact that pvp is being reduced to a virtual game of SNAP is gonna make them even less inclined to engage in the first place.
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Where AB fits in some cases totally outshine MWD fits
A very limited amount of 1 V 1 scenarios actually.
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong You might also not have seen that light missiles and light drones actually MANAGE to damage inties now.
So that along with the dmg from samll drones makes inties and all other small ships like cruisers and destroyers worthless in gang pvp compared to larger ships like BC and BS.
SAVE NANO!!!!!!....only needing f1-f8 to kill is not a skilled style of combat.
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Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:18:00 -
[7]
Actually Vagas now could be even mroe annoying due to web nerf and indirect AB boost. HACs can have now a possibility to scape if the pilot is skilled even when webbed, and inties are doing their job right but will need support.
This patch probably makes solopwn mobiles of all hull classes more difficult; but that's fine and with the spirit of the game as stated from CCP and contrary to some popular belief. Teh failure of a signature. |
Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:22:00 -
[8]
Not whining, I just don't think that restructuring the entire mechanics of the game was a sensible way to go about this. I still don't. In real life, when the enemy gets a new weapon, your guys work on a counter. They don't whine to god to re-write physics.
It's a missed opportunity to introduce some cool weapons and gameplay features. Fine tuning would be a tweak to nanos, overdrives and snakes, not re-writing the game.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 20/10/2008 16:24:42
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Where AB fits in some cases totally outshine MWD fits
A very limited amount of 1 V 1 scenarios actually.
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong You might also not have seen that light missiles and light drones actually MANAGE to damage inties now.
So that along with the dmg from samll drones inties are now worthless in gang pvp.
Sorry your answers just prove of how little you have been on sisi. ABs are great and will be used quite often after the patch goes through. Inties do not take extreme amounts of damage from drones while going fast. You are just clueless and are whining like a kid eventhough you havent even been on sisi and trying it out. Inties do just fine tackling targets. You just suck and thats nothing ccp can fix for ya.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Sorry your answers just prove of how little you have been on sisi. ABs are great and will be used quite often after the patch goes through. Inties do not take extreme amounts of damage from drones while going fast. You are just clueless and are whining like a kid eventhough you havent even been on sisi and trying it out. Inties do just fine tackling targets. You just suck and thats nothing ccp can fix for ya.
I have been on sisi every day and afterburners in pvp still suck, inties and small ships are pointless in gang pvp and you are just a tard looking to lower the bar.
SAVE NANO!!!!!!....only needing f1-f8 to kill is not a skilled style of combat.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: lecrotta
I have been on sisi every day and afterburners in pvp still suck, inties and small ships are pointless in gang pvp and you are just a tard looking to lower the bar.
Never said they were good on inties. They are however good on AFs, HACs (depending on what youre doing), recons like pilgrim etc. L2P and adapt. Changes are great and are coming and it is really making me happy.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:39:00 -
[12]
Edited by: lecrotta on 20/10/2008 16:39:54
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: lecrotta
I have been on sisi every day and afterburners in pvp still suck, inties and small ships are pointless in gang pvp and you are just a tard looking to lower the bar.
Never said they were good on inties. They are however good on AFs, HACs (depending on what youre doing), recons like pilgrim etc. L2P and adapt. Changes are great and are coming and it is really making me happy.
Yea yea bleating on about 1 v 1 stats like they have any relevance in eve just shows how stupid you are.
Ive seen your kills and losses on BC so unless your posting on a alt like i am i do not see why you care lol 23 kills 2 losses?.
SAVE NANO!!!!!!....only needing f1-f8 to kill is not a skilled style of combat.
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Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Braenca on 20/10/2008 16:42:26 oh dear thread hijacked by a troll. The Ad Hominem attacks don't make you look clever Amira.
I suggest we let it sink now.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:55:00 -
[14]
The best idea so far was the scripted web idea (range vs str%) and the mwd killing scram because they left killing fast ships up to the players instead of just killing it as a option.
Along with the fact that each race has str that the others lack like mini as tacklers, amaar as dmg dealers, caldari a dmg + ewar and gallente a bit of everything.
The problem is that every race/player wants to be as good at everything as every other race/player instead of putting together mixed gangs and using each individual str to be greater than its individual parts.
SAVE NANO!!!!!!....only needing f1-f8 to kill is not a skilled style of combat.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Braenca
but people will fit reppers which go in a low slot where a nano/overdrive would go, and reppers use CPU and grid. Incidentally, they might choose to fit bulkheads too, which would give that module a use again.
but vagas will still be able to get away why should you be able to hold down a 5 year player who has spent billions of isk fitting out his ship with faction speed mods and snakes. If you lock and web him fast enough he 1- might not get away and 2- he might shake his hull to pieces trying to run, and you get on the killmail anyway.
The changes are very carefully thought through. They have been working on it for months now. With these planned changeso on sisi people already WILL put reppers on many ships because even inties will get damaged even while going 5km/s by warrior IIs or light missiles. Vagas will still get away because they are fast and have good tackling protection against frigs; neut and drones. I don't see a problem here. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Nicoli Malthus
Caldari The First Somerset Strikers
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:59:00 -
[16]
I agree, Ships should have a maximum speed they can fly at before falling apart. The simplest and easiest soloution is to apply a max speed to all ships, and do nothing else.
This huge nerf/patch is a friggin joke!!! Look at real life, vehicles can only reach up to a maximum speed before they self destruct, the same rules of physics need to be applied to this game, plain and simple!!!
This game is based off of real life after all, so lets make it that way.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 20/10/2008 17:01:48
Originally by: Nicoli Malthus I agree, Ships should have a maximum speed they can fly at before falling apart. The simplest and easiest soloution is to apply a max speed to all ships, and do nothing else.
This huge nerf/patch is a friggin joke!!! Look at real life, vehicles can only reach up to a maximum speed before they self destruct, the same rules of physics need to be applied to this game, plain and simple!!!
This game is based off of real life after all, so lets make it that way.
Your solution is like going to the opera but dressing up like a bum because its simpler.
Would it be a great solution to balance a weapon system (if it would be needed) by hard capping its damage (and if you go beyond a certain dps that your weapon breaks) so you have to adjust and remove dmg mods to not breach the cap? Or would it be better to just adjust some values of the weapon? I think it is quite obvious. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:07:00 -
[18]
But in your example, the weapon only has a single effect. Speed has an effect on pretty much every aspect of the game (bar the market!). The current plans are the equivalent of making the opera's entire audience wear the same clothes as you so you fit in.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Braenca But in your example, the weapon only has a single effect. Speed has an effect on pretty much every aspect of the game (bar the market!). The current plans are the equivalent of making the opera's entire audience wear the same clothes as you so you fit in.
No one weapon type having overpowered damage would tilt the game. Everyone would start fitting those guns and everyone would start training that race. Just admit it (to just set in caps), it is a stupid way of balancing things. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Jack Gilligan
Caldari THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:16:00 -
[20]
Capping speed on hulls is absolutely the best solution, because it's the simplest and affects fewer game systems than the all encompassing thing on Sisi right now.
The problem with nanos is limited to cruiser and larger ships that can be built to outrun ships that are supposed to be faster, such as interceptors, and their ability to outrun missiles, thus basically taking them out of the game as a viable weapon.
What should be done, logically, is fix THAT problem, not introduce a lot of new ones by basically doing a sweeping "solution" that is in effect a radical rewriting of the whole combat system.
Examples of bad effects:
1. WHAT the hell was wrong with non nanofitted battleships and battlecruisers that they need their speed cut by 40% and their agility reduced to that of dreadnoughts? I thought the idea was to make MWD's cease to be a "must fit" item, the result of this change will be that they are more "must fit" than ever.
2. Not everyone in this game pvp's all the time. While people like me desire to do that, the majority of players spend most of their time missioning or ratting. This change will make PVE a lot more painful due to slowing down of non speed fitted BC's and BS's. Slowing everything down will make doing such things less fun, especially since you know that they won't adjust the rats (rats still fire torpedoes at the pre-nerf ranges) and their BS's will be able to outrun you unless you actually speed modify a rat ship which is just stupid.
3. Remember the Black Ops BS's nice agility bonus that let it align as fast as a battlecruiser? Gone, my Sin is an unagile as a standard Domi on test server.
4. Suddenly there is a serious balance shift from short range guns (autocannons, hybrids) and missiles. On test server, short range combat is basically impossible due to the web changes and speed changes. The paradigm shift in combat is obvious, ships purpose built for that will become unused and fleets rather than sending skirmishers in close all classes of ships will stand out at optimal range and snipe.
5. Interceptors are now flying coffins. The only T2 frigate that actually had a defined role that it did well (speed, tackling) is being slowed as well, by nearly 50%. This basically makes them dead in a single volley. The irony is that these ships are the reason for the speed nerf in the first place, as they are supposed to be the fastest in the game. Worst is that `ceptors will be able to be killed by the ship they are chasing to tackle long before they can close given the new speed limit.
While they (technically) still are, you can still nano HAC's to be nearly as fast as them they don't have enough of a speed advantage to allow them to speed tank. Now that `ceptors will be easy to kill and are already low damage, along with the paradigm shift to long range combat will basically take away any meaningful role for them and they will fall into disuse. Dictors have already taken away a lot of what `ceptors used to do exclusively, and this change finishes that off.
6. Minmatar. Speed was the Minmatar "race role", now gone. I think it's irresponsible to do this while at the same time NOT rebalancing other things they do in order to give them a NEW race role. This will be months or even years away. I feel for anyone who trained Minmatar to the exclusion of other races.
Hull speed caps:
Here is what I propose. Minmatar as the "speed race" would receive a 10% premium above these caps. Mods, implants, gang bonuses, rigs would remain unchanged, but they'd have no effect once the ship class reaches it's hull class "cap".
T1 and T2 Frigates (excluding interceptors): 7500 m/s T2 Interceptor: 10,000 m/s T1 and T2 destroyers: 4000 m/s T1 and T2 cruisers: 3500 m/s T1 and T2 battlecruisers: 2500 m/s T1 and T2 battleships: 2000 m/s
Capitals and industrials would need no caps as they are impossible to nano to any practical degree.
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
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Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:21:00 -
[21]
This thread ain't really going anywhere, and I suspect will shortly be locked. I was trying to drum up a bit of support for a different idea, but I guess we should be resigned to the fact that this is going ahead in the format that's on Sisi.
I would be interested to know whether alternatives to the current plan were investigated. Were ideas mooted in these forums rejected out of hand because "the Devs know best"... I suspect so.
The changes to the game mechanics are going to be huge. I therefore predict an extremely long inital downtime, followed by up to a week of unplayable lag, bugs and hot fixes... I hope I'm wrong (I could be, the recent patches have gone pretty well in fairness). When it all settles down I don't expect the game will be as much fun. Combat will be about the blob, and PvE will take longer and be more dull. Given the choice, I would have liked a new feature that made the game more challenging... but there you go. I'm not gooing to emorage quit, but if I get bored, I might emoyawnavoidtheblobquit, and then... yes, you can have my stuff
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Vagas will still get away because they are fast and have good tackling protection against frigs; neut and drones. I don't see a problem here.
Maybe in your perfect world of 1v1 combat or "enemy uses no tackling ships". They will be webbed and neuted like always - or just killed by sheer missile spam so they pop before they align. Yes its that easy on sisi now - and if it hits TQ it will be even easier due to larger playerbase.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Vagas will still get away because they are fast and have good tackling protection against frigs; neut and drones. I don't see a problem here.
Maybe in your perfect world of 1v1 combat or "enemy uses no tackling ships". They will be webbed and neuted like always - or just killed by sheer missile spam so they pop before they align. Yes its that easy on sisi now - and if it hits TQ it will be even easier due to larger playerbase.
Well that is the point of this nerf if you havent figured it out: Everyone has to commit to a fight. Doesnt matter if your a speedy hac or not. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:37:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/10/2008 18:38:10
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Vagas will still get away because they are fast and have good tackling protection against frigs; neut and drones. I don't see a problem here.
Maybe in your perfect world of 1v1 combat or "enemy uses no tackling ships". They will be webbed and neuted like always - or just killed by sheer missile spam so they pop before they align. Yes its that easy on sisi now - and if it hits TQ it will be even easier due to larger playerbase.
Well that is the point of this nerf if you havent figured it out: Everyone has to commit to a fight. Doesnt matter if your a speedy hac or not.
Thats why im playing with 220km snipercerbs and falcons - no need to risk tbh.
EDIT: also station hugging, pos shield hugging or (in 1v1) reapproaching gate/deagressing still is in game. So where is that "commitment" to the fight you were talking about?
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Well that is the point of this nerf if you havent figured it out: Everyone has to commit to a fight. Doesnt matter if your a speedy hac or not.
So speaks the ratter with attitude.
Range is gonna be on your next hit list muppet wanna styart you "wwwaaa they wont come close and sit still" thread now or later?.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/10/2008 18:38:10
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Vagas will still get away because they are fast and have good tackling protection against frigs; neut and drones. I don't see a problem here.
Maybe in your perfect world of 1v1 combat or "enemy uses no tackling ships". They will be webbed and neuted like always - or just killed by sheer missile spam so they pop before they align. Yes its that easy on sisi now - and if it hits TQ it will be even easier due to larger playerbase.
Well that is the point of this nerf if you havent figured it out: Everyone has to commit to a fight. Doesnt matter if your a speedy hac or not.
Thats why im playing with 220km snipercerbs and falcons - no need to risk tbh.
EDIT: also station hugging, pos shield hugging or (in 1v1) reapproaching gate/deagressing still is in game. So where is that "commitment" to the fight you were talking about?
Falcons need a nerf. Everyone knows that. Cerbs, meh so what. Takes ages for missiles to land and one single cerb does not remove 6 ships and several thousands of dps out of a fight within a second all by himself. Quite a large difference. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Falcons need a nerf. Everyone knows that. Cerbs, meh so what. Takes ages for missiles to land and one single cerb does not remove 6 ships and several thousands of dps out of a fight within a second all by himself. Quite a large difference.
Still cerb is the only cruiser ship that can apply full damage (and quite good damage too) to all ships from 0-220km. Anyways even if you exclyde cerbs and put fleets of 100km range HACs - thats what you will get in future fleets. Staying out of tackle/retaliation range, slowly grinding you away. Yes it does work and thx to speed nerf it will work even better.
So whats your next idea of committing HACs to combat (or maybe to suicide themselves at your shiny closerange BS gang)? Reduce their lock range to 20km? (because they are HEAVY!). So after that - next idea will be probably cloaks/more ewar. Yes - there are tons of counters that enable you NOT to commit (or rather suicide - but guess you prefer word commit) your ship to fight.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Falcons need a nerf. Everyone knows that. Cerbs, meh so what. Takes ages for missiles to land and one single cerb does not remove 6 ships and several thousands of dps out of a fight within a second all by himself. Quite a large difference.
Still cerb is the only cruiser ship that can apply full damage (and quite good damage too) to all ships from 0-220km. Anyways even if you exclyde cerbs and put fleets of 100km range HACs - thats what you will get in future fleets. Staying out of tackle/retaliation range, slowly grinding you away. Yes it does work and thx to speed nerf it will work even better.
So whats your next idea of committing HACs to combat (or maybe to suicide themselves at your shiny closerange BS gang)? Reduce their lock range to 20km? (because they are HEAVY!). So after that - next idea will be probably cloaks/more ewar. Yes - there are tons of counters that enable you NOT to commit (or rather suicide - but guess you prefer word commit) your ship to fight.
And who tackles for these 100km cerbs? ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Jack Gilligan
Caldari THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/10/2008 18:38:10
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Vagas will still get away because they are fast and have good tackling protection against frigs; neut and drones. I don't see a problem here.
Maybe in your perfect world of 1v1 combat or "enemy uses no tackling ships". They will be webbed and neuted like always - or just killed by sheer missile spam so they pop before they align. Yes its that easy on sisi now - and if it hits TQ it will be even easier due to larger playerbase.
Well that is the point of this nerf if you havent figured it out: Everyone has to commit to a fight. Doesnt matter if your a speedy hac or not.
Thats why im playing with 220km snipercerbs and falcons - no need to risk tbh.
EDIT: also station hugging, pos shield hugging or (in 1v1) reapproaching gate/deagressing still is in game. So where is that "commitment" to the fight you were talking about?
I believe the new FOTM will be sniper setups. Since the attacker sets the rules, I see gang fights consist of cov ops frig providing warp in, snipers warp to optimal and start wailing away hopefully with enough alpha to kill the target.
This will likely replace nano setups. Given how missiles are crappier than ever on Sisi, I expect to see the Cerb replaced by the Eagle. In fact, the Eagle, with it's excellent sniper characteristics (longest range of any HAC) it will be quite popular, and may end up being the most popular HAC post speed nerf, as a gang of these should be able to do a nice alpha at extreme range.
Even better, the speed nerf will make it take quite a lot longer for anyone to close 200+km to engage the snipers. And, you can afford to fit some tank, again, something the Eagle does well because it gets shield resist bonuses per level, this beyond the already good T2 ship resists it will be easy to shield buffer-resist tank it.
The next outcry will be for range to be nerfed...
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Falcons need a nerf. Everyone knows that. Cerbs, meh so what. Takes ages for missiles to land and one single cerb does not remove 6 ships and several thousands of dps out of a fight within a second all by himself. Quite a large difference.
Still cerb is the only cruiser ship that can apply full damage (and quite good damage too) to all ships from 0-220km. Anyways even if you exclyde cerbs and put fleets of 100km range HACs - thats what you will get in future fleets. Staying out of tackle/retaliation range, slowly grinding you away. Yes it does work and thx to speed nerf it will work even better.
So whats your next idea of committing HACs to combat (or maybe to suicide themselves at your shiny closerange BS gang)? Reduce their lock range to 20km? (because they are HEAVY!). So after that - next idea will be probably cloaks/more ewar. Yes - there are tons of counters that enable you NOT to commit (or rather suicide - but guess you prefer word commit) your ship to fight.
And who tackles for these 100km cerbs?
With the speed reduction a dictor alt doing a drop and jump will do cos nothing is gonna move quick out of its bubble now tbh.
See how pvpers think?....nerf summat and we still will never behave like the rats you only know how to pop.
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