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Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, I couldn't post in the relevant section, so I'll try here and see if I can get any help. I am a new player, and so far I have only been mining and I have an Osprey for that. My race is Caldari.
I am looking for a ship and setup that will work well in solo-PVE. It has to be somewhat inexpensive (10-20 million in total), and the modules not requiring a whole bunch of levelling (ie. the entire skillset being obtainable in less than a week, starting from scratch).
I have been looking at a Moa, and I found a recommended cheap sniper-setup on BattleClinic, that I have been considering trying to obtain the skillset for. I just don't know if it will work in solo PVE, which is why I write here.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
165
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:Hi, I couldn't post in the relevant section, so I'll try here and see if I can get any help. I am a new player, and so far I have only been mining and I have an Osprey for that. My race is Caldari.
That's probably a good thing. This whole section is designed for newbie questions that may seem obvious to more experienced players.
Anyway, the type of ship you want depends strongly on what skillset you want to have and what type of PVE you're doing (There's a lot more than just missions). Caldari has two distinct ship lines - missileboats (Kestrel, Caracal, Drake, Raven, etc.) and hybrid gunboats (Merlin, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox, Rokh). Things like level 2 missions and 3/10 exploration complexes will be best done in a t1 cruiser, so your good options would be the Moa and Caracal. Which of those two would be best depends on your skillset and whether you have trained/would rather train for hybrid turrets or missiles.
Strictly speaking the caracal is probably a bit easier to use for a beginner, but it's not like the moa will have too many problems either.
When looking up fits on battleclinic, note the purpose. I'm guessing that the sniper fit you looked up was for PVP. PVP and PVE fits are usually rather different. |
Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the swift help. I tried searching for PVE setups, but most had quite a few "dislikes".
My long-term plan is getting a rokh and running incursions, while having a secondary mining outfit for it and skip mining barges entirely. But that is way into the future, though.
I would like to use hybrid turrets and drones (the Rokh-setup I want to get when I get rich uses gauss guns and vespa drones), and I want to shield-tank. Any tips to what modules and weapons I should get/train for would be awesome. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
165
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Haruki Yanumano wrote:Thanks for the swift help. I tried searching for PVE setups, but most had quite a few "dislikes".
My long-term plan is getting a rokh and running incursions, while having a secondary mining outfit for it and skip mining barges entirely. But that is way into the future, though.
I would like to use hybrid turrets and drones (the Rokh-setup I want to get when I get rich uses gauss guns and vespa drones), and I want to shield-tank. Any tips to what modules and weapons I should get/train for would be awesome.
Well it's relatively self-explanatory. You want shield tanking skills and hybrid weapon skills...and you'll want drone skills as you move into the higher ship classes too.
As a general rule, when you view the info page of a ship, there will be a "recommended certifications" tab. This is basically just a list of skills you should probably have to fly the ship properly. They aren't always relevant in all circumstances (the Moa recommends the active shield tanking certification, but in PvP they are usually buffer tanked), but will generally point you in the right direction. |
Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alright, thanks. I'll have a look at the certificates. Any tips to what (fairly inexpensive) specific gear I should be getting for my Moa? I would like to be able to level to it within a week, starting from scratch. |
gfldex
440
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
There are about 50 Moas sold per day in Jita. There are about 200 Caracals sold per day in Jita.
You wont get an reply for your request because you intend to doing something silly.
Inferno - your wallet will burn! |
Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Que? |
gfldex
440
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
There is no reason why one would want to shoot NPCs with a Moa. The Rokh is pretty much at the end of the list as well. Mining in a Rokh can be done but it drives you crazy. You whole plan is quite sound if you want to be inefficient at any single step. Inferno - your wallet will burn! |
Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alright, I just saw a Rokh with a 855m3/min setup and thought that was good, and it is mentioned in several guides.
What do you propose I should do?
Thanks. |
gfldex
440
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Posted - 2012.04.01 22:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Haruki Yanumano wrote:What do you propose I should do?
Mining is a way to gain minerals. Shooting NPCs is a way to generate money (it's quite close to Chinese Tea Money).
Neither has a meaning in itself (you can't die by starving nor do you need to save up for your pension). So what you should do depends on what your goals are. If you don't state those, nobody can give you a meaningful answer.
Inferno - your wallet will burn! |
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Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 22:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alright, I should probably clarify - I am a total noob. I want to make lotsa money, naturally, and I want to do incursions/shoot npc's (and then later PVP when I get the hang of things). Can I make lots of money by shooting NPC's? |
gfldex
440
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Posted - 2012.04.01 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Haruki Yanumano wrote:Can I make lots of money by shooting NPC's?
You can make decent money (or it would be pointless to have NPCs that hand over ISK after exploding). Lots of money will most likely be out of your reach. Rich is relative after all. We can't be all rich.
Haruki Yanumano wrote:and then later PVP when I get the hang of things
You either want to PvP or you want "later" both at the same time doesn't work well. Further PvP is something that can happen to you as soon as you undock, no matter if you look for it or not. If you make yourself a target somebody will come sooner then later to shoot you. Knowing how to hunt folk helps a lot when you need to get away. There will be war in summer.
Incursions are about to get nerfed and require quite a few SP to be of any use. When you got the skills to take part the change (that was not revealed in detail yet) will have happend.
For shooting NPCs Caracal->Drake->Raven|Tengu|Golem works well if you don't understand how turrets work. If you do, well, as it seams nobody is whining about the Paladin, so it's probably overpowered. That would mean Maller->Harbinger->Apoc->Paladin.
All of that should have been told to you by your corp mates. Or did you not join any proper corp yet?
Inferno - your wallet will burn! |
Kairos Eunoia
Merchants of the Golden Goose
0
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
As a caldari player it is currently recommended to go the missile way.
There is no way you can know it, but mining in a battleship is currently one of the least efficient ways to get rich in this game. It is hard enough in a specialised mining vehicle. We are talking future income, not compared to your osprey.
Also training for both mining and fighting on the same account in the beginning will only make you frustrated as you will be rather inefficient at doing both.
You have to choose whether you want to start out becoming a miner or a fighter.
Let me recommend the fighting way...
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
165
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Posted - 2012.04.02 00:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Haruki Yanumano wrote:Alright, thanks. I'll have a look at the certificates. Any tips to what (fairly inexpensive) specific gear I should be getting for my Moa? I would like to be able to level to it within a week, starting from scratch.
Generally you'll probably want railguns in the highs, an afterburner and a basic shield tank (shield booster + resist mods based on the type of rats you're fighting), maybe with a damage control and magnetic field stabilizers in the lows. I can't come up with a specific fit at the moment as I'm short on time but it's not too complicated
Quote:There is no reason why one would want to shoot NPCs with a Moa. The Rokh is pretty much at the end of the list as well. Mining in a Rokh can be done but it drives you crazy. You whole plan is quite sound if you want to be inefficient at any single step
Caldari hybrid ships have never been that bad, and that was before the hybrid buff. |
Haruki Yanumano
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.02 01:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alright, thanks for all the help. I played the game for like 3 hours, so yeah I know nothing basicly. I'll reconsider, I think, and dump the mining thing, get a caracal and shoot missiles at a bunch of NPC's.
What I would like to be able to do is make enough dough to buy PLEX and play for "free" - I heard it can be done after a couple of months.
I'm in a corp, but I am still - after having played for 2 days - still learning the ropes. I appreciate all the help. |
Xerces Ynx
Unseen Academy The Unseen Company
34
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Posted - 2012.04.02 13:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
gfldex wrote:For shooting NPCs Caracal->Drake->Raven|Tengu|Golem works well if you don't understand how turrets work. If you do, well, as it seams nobody is whining about the Paladin, so it's probably overpowered. That would mean Maller->Harbinger->Apoc->Paladin. I don't see Rokh here. I'm not sure what it means. Is it good for PvP only or is it a junk that nobody uses? Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory |
Kairos Eunoia
Merchants of the Golden Goose
0
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Posted - 2012.04.02 14:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Neither. I believe the Rokh is used as a cheap incursion fit. I have also heard it been used in pvp fleet fights.
But generally hybrid guns have been regarded as underpowered compared to other weapon systems and have seen little use when other weapon system were available.With a recent buff to hybrids last expansion and rumors of more to come this may change.
Missiles however have the advantage of being very new player friendly as you do not have to take into account such things as fall-off and angular velocity. |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
35
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Posted - 2012.04.02 14:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rokh is used in large fleets mostly, though I've seen them in Incusrions as well.
Caldari PvE though is easierst following the missile path Caracal, Drake (Raven/Tengu) Scorpion Navy Isue Caldari Navy Raven/ Golem.
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Xerces Ynx
Unseen Academy The Unseen Company
34
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Posted - 2012.04.02 14:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
That's great then. I was planning to fly BlastaRokh in shield fleets, when battleships are needed. I was worried that my choice was wrong... (too much?) Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory |
Kairos Eunoia
Merchants of the Golden Goose
1
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Posted - 2012.04.02 18:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xerces Ynx wrote:That's great then. I was planning to fly BlastaRokh in shield fleets, when battleships are needed. I was worried that my choice was wrong... (too much?)
As a relatively new player myself I do not have great experience of fleet battles. But in general Blasters seem no to be prioritized in larger engangements of fleets.
They most often see use in ganks and roams in Hi and Lo afaik.
If you want to do fleet battles the best thing you can do is to find a corporation which actually takes part in such endeavors and ask them for advice what they need in their fleet.
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Jouron
Hadon Shipping
28
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Posted - 2012.04.02 19:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Caldari missile boats tend to be what people lean toward for PVE. My caldari character went, Merlin, Cormarant, Caracal, Drake, Raven.
Some times he swaps back to drake if there is more BC C sized rats in a mission.
The tengu is the cadillac of all mission boats. If you plan on doing alot of pve aim for a shiny version of one of those. If your only a few days old you can still skill into missiles with out having it F your training que.
Your blaster rokh will be a welcome site in Incursion fleets. But the number of Shiny Incursion fleets increases all the time so how quickly you'll get pulled into a fleet to run incursions may vary.
Missile boats tend to be more efficient for doing solo PVE, Missions DED complexes, and scanable complexes and wh sites.
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Haruki Yanumano
Sunspot Manufacturing
0
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Posted - 2012.04.02 21:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-) |
Otrebla Utrigas
Space Bastards
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 07:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Haruki Yanumano wrote:Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)
Don't get confused, missiles may seem easier for noobs because they always hit, but if you want to be effective with them you have to take into account that:
- They have delayed DPS - You have two factors (explosion radious and explosion velocity) which works like angular velocity and falloff works for guns, in they way that you have to know why your supposed hard hitting Heavy missiles does nothing to a frigate. - They do full damage of one type each, so you will have to manage your ammo magazine to be efficient with them. - Their range depends on the doppler effect. A ship going away from you will lower your range, while an approaching one will increase your effective range. It is possible to OUTRUN a missile so you will have 0 DPS to certain ships no mater what you do.
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Annette Aumer
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Sovereign Technologies
0
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Posted - 2012.04.04 12:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:Haruki Yanumano wrote:Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-) Don't get confused, missiles may seem easier for noobs because they always hit, but if you want to be effective with them you have to take into account that: - They have delayed DPS - You have two factors (explosion radious and explosion velocity) which works like angular velocity and falloff works for guns, in they way that you have to know why your supposed hard hitting Heavy missiles does nothing to a frigate. - They do full damage of one type each, so you will have to manage your ammo magazine to be efficient with them. - Their range depends on the doppler effect. A ship going away from you will lower your range, while an approaching one will increase your effective range. It is possible to OUTRUN a missile so you will have 0 DPS to certain ships no mater what you do. Once you get these into account, you will find missiles are better for PvE just because of range and the knowledge of the enemy damage weakness before engaging. Also remember to always fit an AFT in your ships, since missiles don't suffer from tracking issues. Missiles are great, but so are hybrid guns after the buff. And gunnery skills will help you when you will eventually cross train other factions (laser and autoguns) And finally, I will give you an advice one of the old guys gave me when I started. "It doesn't matter what you choose, but DO choose, or you won't be good at anything"
Good little writeup there, thanks a lot :) |
Otrebla Utrigas
Space Bastards
2
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Posted - 2012.04.04 12:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Annette Aumer wrote:
Good little writeup there, thanks a lot :)
Thanks, I found the community of this game very helpful to new players when I started, 3 weeks ago so I try to do my part with the newcomers.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
213
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Posted - 2012.04.04 14:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sorry to confuse the issue a little more by yet another piece of possible advice. Just goes to show nothing in EVE is simple.
For a new player, I would recommend first aiming to flying a competent battlecruiser (in this case, Drake). That will give you a source of a steady income from missions, and a solid if not fancy DPS ship to take to incursions and pvp. Once you have the hang of those (solo pve, group pve, combat fleets) you know enough to figure out what next yourself. All the skills you need to get there are stuff that will help you later on, anyhow.
I'd not worry about missiles vs guns or shield vs armor right now. Learn first what you need for the BC of choice. You will end up having skills for both if you keep up doing pvp combat, anyhow. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
4
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Posted - 2012.04.04 17:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Otrebla Utrigas wrote: Don't get confused, missiles may seem easier for noobs because they always hit, but if you want to be effective with them you have to take into account that:"
Actually, defender missiles are not uncommon on certain NPC types, so they don't always hit either. Theoretically a rather silly player that's messing with you could fit them as well. |
Nymph Purchasing
Ruvas Logistics and Maintenance Services
20
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Posted - 2012.04.09 14:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
delete--connectivity problems made me think I hadn't actually posted this. |
Nymph Purchasing
Ruvas Logistics and Maintenance Services
20
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Posted - 2012.04.09 14:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kairos Eunoia wrote: Missiles however have the advantage of being very new player friendly as you do not have to take into account such things as fall-off and angular velocity.
Yes missiles are much easier. They only have explosion velocity, explosion radius, and a slightly variable and not clearly listed anywhere without doing the math yourself range. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
176
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Posted - 2012.04.09 14:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Turret ships need to take into account the speed of the target, the size of the target (vs the tracing speed of your guns), the range of the target (both for tracking reasons and for falloff reasons), the angle that the target is moving at and the angle that your ship is moving at.
Missile ships need to take into account the size of the target vs your explosion radius and the speed of your target vs the explosion velocity. There's no falloff to worry about, either the target is within range or it's not. Oh, and even if your missiles have 100km range, you can still hit things up close just fine.
So yeah, way simpler. |
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